ancient_paztriot

Thankyou JNdas for pointing out what hypocrites people can be. Too often I see devotees defending their philosophy or personal integrity to bigger hypoocrites than them. It is draining. I try to save myself the pain and it's moments like these that I think "what a smart boy am I". /images/graemlins/smile.gif I thought of a keyword earlier that really describes this progressive world and how people deal with each other: Um 'pretext'… cheating… some angle. (And shameless too I think).

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Army will prevent soldiers in units set to deploy to Iraq and Afghanistan from leaving the service at the end of their terms, a top general said Wednesday. The announcement, an expansion of an Army program called ``stop-loss,'' means that thousands of soldiers who had expected to retire or otherwise leave the military will have to stay on for the duration of their deployment to those combat zones. The expansion affects units that are 90 days away or less from deploying, said Lt. Gen. Frank L. ``Buster'' Hagenbeck, the Army's deputy chief of staff for personnel. Commanders have the ability to make exceptions for soldiers with special circumstances; otherwise, soldiers won't be able to leave the service or transfer from their unit until they return to their home base after the deployment. The move will allow the Army to keep units together as they deploy, Hagenbeck said. Units with new recruits or recently transferred soldiers would not perform as well because the troops would not have had time to work together. ``The rationale is to have cohesive, trained units going to war together,'' Hagenbeck said. Previously, the Army had prevented soldiers from leaving certain units scheduled for deployment to Afghanistan or Iraq. But Wednesday's move is the first time since Sept. 11, 2001, that the stop-loss program has been ordered so widely. The announcement comes as the Army is struggling to find fresh units to continue the occupation of Iraq. Almost every Army combat unit has faced or will face deployment there or in Afghanistan, and increased violence has forced the deployment of an additional 20,000 troops to the region, straining units even further. Some criticize the stop-loss program as contrary to the concept of an all-volunteer military force. Soldiers planning to retire and get on with their lives now face months away from their families and homes. In an opinion piece in Wednesday's New York Times, Andrew Exum, a former Army captain who served under Hagenbeck in the 10th Mountain Division in Afghanistan, called the treatment of soldiers under stop-loss programs ``shameful.'' ``Many, if not most, of the soldiers in this latest Iraq-bound wave are already veterans of several tours in Iraq and Afghanistan,'' he wrote. ``They have honorably completed their active duty obligations. But like draftees, they have been conscripted to meet the additional needs in Iraq.'' Hagenbeck said the stop-loss move is necessary only because the Army is also undergoing a major reorganization that requires some units to be taken off-line while they are restructured. Hagenbeck had no numbers on how many soldiers would be affected. Without the program, an average division would have to replace 4,000 soldiers - perhaps one-quarter to one-fifth of its strength - before or during a deployment, according an Army press release.

from Life Comes from Life… Srila Prabhupada. It is said in the Vedas, yasmin vijnate sarvam evam vijnatam bhavati: “If one knows the Absolute Truth, then all other things become known.” I am not a Ph.D., yet I can challenge the scientists. Why? Because I know Krsna, the Absolute Truth. Yasmin sthito na duùkhena gurunapi vicalyate: “If one is situated in Krsna consciousness, then even in the greatest calamities he will not be disturbed.” (Bg. 6.22) Srimad-Bhagavatam (1.5.22) declares, avicyuto ’rthaù kavibhir nirupito yad uttamasloka-gunanuvarnanam: “Great personalities have decided that Krsna consciousness is the perfection of life.” This kind of knowledge is required. Not that we do some research, come up with a theory, and after fifteen years say, “No, no, it is not right—it is another thing.” That is not science; that is child’s play. Dr. Singh. That is how they discover things—by research. Srila Prabhupada. And what is the cost of the research? It is a scientific method for drawing money from others, that’s all. In other words, it is cheating. Scientists juggle words like plutonium, photons, hydrogen and oxygen, but what good will people get from this? When people hear this jugglery of words, what can they say? One scientist explains something to some extent, and then another rascal comes along and explains it again, but differently, with different words. And all the time the phenomenon has remained the same. What advancement has been made? They have simply produced volumes of books. Now there is a petrol problem. Scientists have created it. If the petrol supply dwindles away, what will these rascal scientists do? They are powerless to do anything about it.

From Life Comes from Life… Srila Prabhupada. Everyone is suffering here in the material world, and scientific improvement means that the scientists are creating a situation of further suffering. That’s all. They are not making improvements. Bhaktivinoda thakura[6] confirms this by saying, moha janamiya, anitya samsare, jivake karaye gaòha: “By so-called scientific improvements, the scientist has become an ass.” Moreover, he is becoming a better and better ass, and nothing more. Suppose that by working very hard like an ass, a person builds a skyscraper. He may engage in a lifelong labor for this, but ultimately he must die. He cannot stay; he will be kicked out of his skyscraper, because material life is impermanent. Scientists are constantly doing research, and if you ask them what they are doing, they say, “Oh, it is for the next generation, for the future.” But I say, “What about you? What about your skyscraper? If in your next life you are going to be a tree, what will you do with your next generation then?” But he is an ass. He does not know that he is going to stand before his skyscraper for ten thousand years. And what about the next generation? If there is no petrol, what will the next generation do? And how will the next generation help him if he is going to be a cat, a dog or a tree? The scientists—and everyone else—should endeavor to achieve freedom from the repetition of birth and death. But instead, everyone is becoming more and more entangled in the cycle of birth and death. Bhave ’smin klisyamananam avidya-kama-karmabhiù. This is a quotation from srimad-Bhagavatam (1.8.35). Here in one line the whole material existence is explained. This is literature. This one line is worth thousands of years of research work. It explains how the living entity is taking birth in this world, where he comes from, where he is going, what his activities should be, and many other essential things. The words bhave ’smin klisyamananam refer to the struggle for existence. Why does this struggle exist? Because of avidya, ignorance. And what is the nature of that ignorance? Kama-karmabhiù, being forced to work simply for the senses, or in other words, entanglement in material sense gratification. Student. So, is it true that modern scientific research increases the demands of the body because the scientist is ultimately working to gratify his senses? Srila Prabhupada. Yes.

Small paper cups is the same idea as giving guests plastic forks and spoons at the feast, isn't it?

15th Morning Walk… Srila Prabhupada. A sensible man will take a good lesson, but a rascal will never take a good lesson. There is a story of a great poet named Kalidasa, who was a great rascal also. Once, Kalidasa was sitting on the branch of a tree and simultaneously cutting it. A gentleman asked him, “Why are you cutting this tree limb? You will fall down.” Kalidasa replied, “No, no, I will not fall down.” So he kept cutting the limb, and he fell down. The conclusion is that he was a rascal because he would not take good advice. By their so-called scientific advancement, scientists are going to hell. But they do not listen when they are told; therefore they are rascals. Rascals repeatedly make a plan, see it frustrated, and again make another plan. This plan is also frustrated, so they make another plan. Yet when we try to explain to them that all their materialistic plans will be unsuccessful and useless, they refuse to listen. That is rascaldom. The rascals repeatedly chew the chewed. At home, in the street, at the nightclub, at the theater—wherever he is, sex in its different varieties is his only pleasure. Student. Srila Prabhupada, one could say that that is bravery. Srila Prabhupada. Yes, you can say that, but that bravery is their rascaldom. They are bravely going to hell, that’s all. Once, one man was chasing another man, and the man who was chasing asked, “Why are you fleeing? Are you afraid of me?” The other man replied, “I am not afraid of you. Why should I not run? Why should I stop?” In the same way, the gross materialist is bravely going to hell. “Why should I stop with my sinful activities?” he says. “I will Bravely face any reaction.” Dr. Singh. They are crazy. Srila Prabhupada. Yes, crazy. The Vedas say that once a man becomes crazy, or haunted by ghosts, he speaks all kinds of nonsense. Similarly, anyone under the influence of the material energy is crazy. Therefore he talks only nonsense, that’s all. Though scientists are not expert in science, they are expert in bluffing others and juggling words.

SB 12.12.2 O great sages, I have narrated to you the wonderful pastimes of Lord Visnu, as you inquired about them from me. Hearing such narrations is the suitable engagement for a person who is actually a human being. SB 12.12.3 This literature fully glorifies the Supreme Personality of Godhead Hari, who removes all His devotees’ sinful reactions. The Lord is glorified as Narayana, Hrsikesa and the Lord of the Satvatas. SB 12.12.4 This literature describes the mystery of the Supreme Absolute Truth, the source of the creation and annihilation of this universe. Also presented are divine knowledge of Him together with the process of its cultivation, and the transcendental realization one achieves. SB 12.12.48 When people properly glorify the Supreme Personality of Godhead or simply hear about His power, the Lord personally enters their hearts and cleanses away every trace of misfortune, just as the sun removes the darkness or as a powerful wind drives away the clouds. PURPORT One may not be satisfied by the example of the sun removing the darkness, since sometimes the darkness in a cave is not removed by the sun. Therefore the example is given of a strong wind that drives away a cover of clouds. It is thus emphatically stated here that the Supreme Lord will remove from the heart of His devotee the darkness of material illusion. SB 12.12 Words that do not describe the transcendental Personality of Godhead but instead deal with temporary matters are simply false and useless. Only those words that manifest the transcendental qualities of the Supreme Lord are actually truthful, auspicious and pious. PURPORT Sooner or later, all material literature and discussion must fail the test of time. On the other hand, the transcendental descriptions of the Supreme Lord can free us from the bondage of illusion and restore us to our eternal status as loving servants of the Lord. Although men who are like animals may criticize the glorification of the Absolute Truth, those who are civilized should go on vigorously propagating the transcendental glories of the Lord. SB 12.12.50 Those words describing the glories of the all-famous Personality of Godhead are attractive, relishable and ever fresh. Indeed, such words are a perpetual festival for the mind, and they dry up the ocean of misery. SB 12.12.51 Those words that do not describe the glories of the Lord, who alone can sanctify the atmosphere of the whole universe, are considered to be like unto a place of pilgrimage for crows, and are never resorted to by those situated in transcendental knowledge. The pure and saintly devotees take interest only in topics glorifying the infallible Supreme Lord. SB 12.12.52 On the other hand, that literature which is full of descriptions of the transcendental glories of the name, fame, forms, pastimes and so on of the unlimited Supreme Lord is a different creation, full of transcendental words directed toward bringing about a revolution in the impious lives of this world’s misdirected civilization. Such transcendental literatures, even though imperfectly composed, are heard, sung and accepted by purified men who are thoroughly honest. SB 12.12.53 Knowledge of self-realization, even though free from all material affinity, does not look well if devoid of a conception of the Infallible [God]. What, then, is the use of even the most properly performed fruitive activities, which are naturally painful from the very beginning and transient by nature, if they are not utilized for the devotional service of the Lord? SB 12.12.55 Remembrance of Lord Krsna’s lotus feet destroys everything inauspicious and awards the greatest good fortune. It purifies the heart and bestows devotion for the Supreme Soul, along with knowledge enriched with realization and renunciation. SB 12.12.59 One who with undeviating attention constantly recites this literature at every moment of every hour, as well as one who faithfully hears even one verse or half a verse or a single line or even half a line, certainly purifies his very self. SB 12.12.62 Upon the person who glorifies this Purana by chanting or hearing it, the demigods, sages, Siddhas, Pitas, Manus and kings of the earth bestow all desirable things. SB 12.12.63 By studying this Bhagavatam, a brahmana can enjoy the same rivers of honey, ghee and milk he enjoys by studying the hymns of the Åg, Yajur and Sama Vedas. SB 12.12.64 A brahmana who diligently reads this essential compilation of all the Puranas will go to the supreme destination, which the Supreme Lord Himself has herein described. SB 12.12.65 A brahmana who studies the Srimad-Bhagavatam achieves firm intelligence in devotional service, a king who studies it gains sovereignty over the earth, a vaisya acquires great treasure and a sudra is freed from sinful reactions. SB 12.12.66 Lord Hari, the supreme controller of all beings, annihilates the accumulated sins of the Kali age, yet other literatures do not constantly glorify Him. But that Supreme Personality of Godhead, appearing in His innumerable personal expansions, is abundantly and constantly described throughout the various narrations of this Srimad-Bhagavatam. SB 12.12.67 I bow down to that unborn and infinite Supreme Soul, whose personal energies effect the creation, maintenance and destruction of the material universe. Even Brahma, Indra, Sankara and the other lords of the heavenly planets cannot fathom the glories of that infallible Personality of Godhead. SB 12.13.11-12 From beginning to end, the Srimad-Bhagavatam is full of narrations that encourage renunciation of material life, as well as nectarean accounts of Lord Hari’s transcendental pastimes, which give ecstasy to the saintly devotees and demigods. This Bhagavatam is the essence of all Vedanta philosophy because its subject matter is the Absolute Truth, which, while nondifferent from the spirit soul, is the ultimate reality, one without a second. The goal of this literature is exclusive devotional service unto that Supreme Truth. PURPORT Vairagya, renunciation, means giving up everything that has no relation with the Absolute Truth. Saintly devotees and demigods are enthused by the nectar of the Lord’s spiritual pastimes, which are the essence of all Vedic knowledge. Vedic knowledge elaborately negates the ultimate reality of material things by emphasizing their temporary, fleeting existence. The ultimate goal is vastu, the factual substance, which is advitiyam, one without a second. That unique Absolute Truth is a transcendental person far beyond the mundane categories and characteristics of personality found in our pale material world. Thus the ultimate goal of Srimad-Bhagavatam is to train the sincere reader in love of Godhead. Lord Krsna is supremely lovable because of His eternal, transcendental qualities. The beauty of this world is a dim reflection of the unlimited beauty of the Lord. Without compromise, Srimad-Bhagavatam persistently declares the glories of the Absolute Truth and is therefore the supreme spiritual literature, awarding a full taste of the nectar of love of Krsna in full Krsna consciousness. SB 12.13.15 Srimad-Bhagavatam is declared to be the essence of all Vedanta philosophy. One who has felt satisfaction from its nectarean mellow will never be attracted to any other literature. SB 12.13.18 I offer my respectful obeisances unto the Supreme Lord, Hari, the congregational chanting of whose holy names destroys all sinful reactions, and the offering of obeisances unto whom relieves all material suffering.

SB 7.15.13 TEXT 13 Religious principles that obstruct one from following his own religion are called vidharma. Religious principles introduced by others are called para-dharma. A new type of religion created by one who is falsely proud and who opposes the principles of the Vedas is called upadharma. And interpretation by one’s jugglery of words is called chala-dharma. PURPORT To create a new type of dharma has become fashionable in this age. So-called svamis and yogis support that one may follow any type of religious system, according to one’s own choice, because all systems are ultimately the same. In srimad-Bhagavatam, however, such fashionable ideas are called vidharma because they go against one’s own religious system. The real religious system is described by the Supreme Personality of Godhead: sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [bg. 18.66]. The real religious system is that of surrender to the lotus feet of the Lord. In the Sixth Canto of srimad-Bhagavatam, in connection with Ajamila’s deliverance, Yamaraja says, dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam: [sB 6.3.19] real religion is that which is given by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, just as real law is that which is given by the government. No one can manufacture actual law at home, nor can one manufacture actual religion. Elsewhere it is said, sa vai pumsam paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhoksaje: [sB 1.2.6] the real religious system is that which leads one to become a devotee of the Supreme Lord. Therefore, anything opposed to this religious system of progressive Krsna consciousness is called vidharma, para-dharma, upadharma or chala-dharma. Misinterpretation of Bhagavad-gita is chala-dharma. When Krsna directly says something and some rascal interprets it to mean something different, this is chala-dharma—a religious system of cheating—or sabda-bhit, a jugglery of words. One should be extremely careful to avoid these various types of cheating systems of religion. SB 7.15.14 A pretentious religious system manufactured by one who willfully neglects the prescribed duties of his order of life is called abhasa [a dim reflection or false similarity]. But if one performs the prescribed duties for his particular asrama or varna, why are they not sufficient to mitigate all material distresses? PURPORT It is indicated here that everyone should strictly follow the principles of varna and asrama as given in the sastra. In the Visnu Purana (3.8.9) it is said: varnasramacaravata purusena parah puman visnur aradhyate pantha nanyat tat-tosa-karanam One should focus upon the destination for progress, which is to become Krsna conscious. This is the aim and end of all varnas and asramas. However, if Visnu is not worshiped, the followers of the varnasrama institution manufacture some concocted God. Thus it has now become fashionable for any rascal or fool to be elected God, and there are many missionaries who have concocted their own gods, giving up their relationship with the real God. In Bhagavad-gita it is clearly said that one who worships the demigods has lost his intelligence. Nonetheless we find that even an illiterate person who has lost all intelligence is elected God, and although he has a temple, it has meat-eating sannyasis, and many polluted activities go on there. This type of religious system, which misguides its poor followers, is strictly forbidden. Such pretentious religions should be stopped altogether. The original system is that a brahmana should actually become a brahmana; he should not only take birth in a brahmana family, but must also be qualified. Also, even if one is not born in a brahmana family but has brahminical qualifications, he must be considered a brahmana. By strictly following this system, one can be happy without extra endeavor. Sva-bhava-vihito dharmah kasya nestah prasantaye. The real aim of life is to mitigate distress, and one can do this very easily by following the principles of sastra. SB 7.15.15 Even if a man is poor, he should not endeavor to improve his economic condition just to maintain his body and soul together or to become a famous religionist. Just as a great python, although lying in one place, not endeavoring for its livelihood, gets the food it needs to maintain body and soul, one who is desireless also obtains his livelihood without endeavor. PURPORT Human life is simply meant for developing Krsna consciousness. One need not even try to earn a livelihood to maintain body and soul together. This is illustrated here by the example of the great python, which lies in one place, never going here and there to earn a livelihood to maintain itself, and yet is maintained by the grace of the Lord. As advised by Narada Muni (Bhag. 1.5.18), tasyaiva hetoh prayateta kovidah: one should simply endeavor to increase his Krsna consciousness. One should not desire to do anything else, even to earn his livelihood. There are many, many examples of this attitude. Madhavendra Puri, for instance, would never go to anyone to ask for food. sukadeva Gosvami has also said, kasmad bhajanti kavayo dhana-durmadandhan. Why should one approach a person who is blind with wealth? Rather, one should depend on Krsna, and He will give everything. All the members of our Krsna consciousness movement, whether they be grhasthas or sannyasis, should try to spread the Krsna consciousness movement with determination, and Krsna will supply all necessities. The process of ajagara-vrtti, the means of livelihood of a python, is very much appreciated in this regard. Even though one may be very poor, he should simply try to advance in Krsna consciousness and not endeavor to earn his livelihood. SB 7.15.16 One who is content and satisfied and who links his activities with the Supreme Personality of Godhead residing in everyone’s heart enjoys transcendental happiness without endeavoring for his livelihood. Where is such happiness for a materialistic man who is impelled by lust and greed and who therefore wanders in all directions with a desire to accumulate wealth? SB 7.15.17 For a person who has suitable shoes on his feet, there is no danger even when he walks on pebbles and thorns. For him, everything is auspicious. Similarly, for one who is always self-satisfied there is no distress; indeed, he feels happiness everywhere. SB 7.15.18 My dear King, a self-satisfied person can be happy even with only drinking water. However, one who is driven by the senses, especially by the tongue and genitals, must accept the position of a household dog to satisfy his senses. PURPORT According to the sastras, a brahmana, or a cultured person in Krsna consciousness, will not enter anyone’s service to maintain body and soul together, and especially not for satisfaction of the senses. A true brahmana is always satisfied. Even if he has nothing to eat, he can drink a little water and be satisfied. This is only a matter of practice. Unfortunately, however, no one is educated in how to be satisfied in self-realization. As explained above, a devotee is always satisfied because he feels the presence of the Supersoul within his heart and thinks of Him twenty-four hours a day. That is real satisfaction. A devotee is never driven by the dictations of the tongue and genitals, and thus he is never victimized by the laws of material nature. SB 7.15.19 Because of greed for the sake of the senses, the spiritual strength, education, austerity and reputation of a devotee or brahmana who is not self-satisfied dwindle, and his knowledge gradually vanishes. SB 7.15.20 The strong bodily desires and needs of a person disturbed by hunger and thirst are certainly satisfied when he eats. Similarly, if one becomes very angry, that anger is satisfied by chastisement and its reaction. But as for greed, even if a greedy person has conquered all the directions of the world or has enjoyed everything in the world, still he will not be satisfied. PURPORT In Bhagavad-gita (3.37) it is stated that lust, anger and greed are the causes of the conditioned soul’s bondage in this material world. Kama esa krodha esa rajo-guna-samudbhavah. When strong lusty desires for sense gratification are unfulfilled, one becomes angry. This anger can be satisfied when one chastises his enemy, but when there is an increase in lobha, or greed, which is the greatest enemy caused by rajo-guna, the mode of passion, how can one advance in Krsna consciousness? If one is very greedy to enhance his Krsna consciousness, this is a great boon. Tatra laulyam ekalam mulam. This is the best path available. SB 7.15.21 TEXT 21 O King Yudhisthira, many persons with varied experience, many legal advisers, many learned scholars and many persons eligible to become presidents of learned assemblies fall down into hellish life because of not being satisfied with their positions. PURPORT For spiritual advancement, one should be materially satisfied, for if one is not materially satisfied, his greed for material development will result in the frustration of his spiritual advancement. There are two things that nullify all good qualities. One is poverty. Daridra-doso guna-rasi-nasi. If one is poverty-stricken, all his good qualities become null and void. Similarly, if one becomes too greedy, his good qualifications are lost. Therefore the adjustment is that one should not be poverty-stricken, but one must try to be fully satisfied with the bare necessities of life and not be greedy. For a devotee to be satisfied with the bare necessities is therefore the best advice for spiritual advancement. Learned authorities in devotional life consequently advise that one not endeavor to increase the number of temples and mathas. Such activities can be undertaken only by devotees experienced in propagating the Krsna consciousness movement. All the acaryas in South India, especially sri Ramanujacarya, constructed many big temples, and in North India all the Gosvamis of Vrndavana constructed large temples. srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati thakura also constructed large centers, known as Gaudiya Mathas. Therefore temple construction is not bad, provided proper care is taken for the propagation of Krsna consciousness. Even if such endeavors are considered greedy, the greed is to satisfy Krsna, and therefore these are spiritual activities. SB 7.15.22 TEXT 22 By making plans with determination, one should give up lusty desires for sense gratification. Similarly, by giving up envy one should conquer anger, by discussing the disadvantages of accumulating wealth one should give up greed, and by discussing the truth one should give up fear. PURPORT Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti thakura has suggested how one can conquer lusty desires for sense gratification. One cannot give up thinking of women, for thinking in this way is natural; even while walking on the street, one will see so many women. However, if one is determined not to live with a woman, even while seeing a woman he will not become lusty. If one is determined not to have sex, he can automatically conquer lusty desires. The example given in this regard is that even if one is hungry, if on a particular day he is determined to observe fasting, he can naturally conquer the disturbances of hunger and thirst. If one is determined not to be envious of anyone, he can naturally conquer anger. Similarly, one can give up the desire to accumulate wealth simply by considering how difficult it is to protect the money in one’s possession. If one keeps a large amount of cash with him, he is always anxious about keeping it properly. Thus if one discusses the disadvantages of accumulating wealth, he can naturally give up business without difficulty. SB 7.15.23 TEXT 23 By discussing spiritual knowledge one can conquer lamentation and illusion, by serving a great devotee one can become prideless, by keeping silent one can avoid obstacles on the path of mystic yoga, and simply by stopping sense gratification one can conquer envy. PURPORT If one’s son has died, one may certainly be affected by lamentation and illusion and cry for the dead son, but one may overcome lamentation and illusion by considering the verses of Bhagavad-gita. jatasya hi dhruvo mrtyur dhruvam janma mrtasya ca As the soul transmigrates, one who has taken birth must give up the present body, and then he must certainly accept another body. This should be no cause for lamentation. Therefore Lord Krsna says, dhiras tatra na muhyati: one who is dhira, or sober, who is learned in philosophy and established in knowledge, cannot be unhappy over the transmigration of the soul.

Blessed be the proofreaders. Because of them, the new Holman Christian Standard Bible, a 20-year, $10 million translation project, will not have this sentence in Exodus 20:14: "Thou shalt commit adultery." That typo actually DID make it into the 1631 King James version of the Bible. The Associated Press reports that the Holman Christian Standard Bible is the latest of only a dozen English translations of the Bible produced since the 15th century. The project employed about 100 biblical scholars, linguists, and editors to translate the Bible from the original Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic into modern English. When they finished their work, the proofreaders started theirs. "Bible readers are less forgiving of errors because they expect perfection in the Bible text," Bible proofreader June Gunden, who founded Peachtree Editorial and Proofreading along with her husband, Doug, told AP. To keep the importance of their work in perspective--proofreading can be real drudgery--they have a list of some of the more notorious biblical typos hanging on their wall. The source of these typos is unknown, but AP notes that the list is commonly circulated among Bible collectors. Notorious Bible typos throughout history: Blessed are the place-makers. It should be: Blessed are the peacemakers. Matthew 5:9. Know ye not that the unrighteous shall inherit the kingdom of God. It should be: Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? 1 Corinthians 6:9 Printers have persecuted me without a cause. It should be: Princes have persecuted me without a cause. Psalm 119:161 Go and sin on more. It should be: Go and sin no more. John 8:11 The fool hath said in his heart there is a God. It should be: The fool hath said in his heart there is no God. Psalm 14:1 Let the children first be killed. It should be: Let the children first be filled. Mark 7:27 The murderer shall surely be put together. It should be: The murderer shall surely be put to death. Numbers 25:18 He hath ears to ear, let him hear. It should be: He hath ears to hear, let him hear. Matthew 11:15 I will...that women adorn themselves in modern apparel. It should be: I will...that women adorn themselves in modest apparel. 1 Timothy 2:9

SB 5.14.3 My dear King, family members in this material world go under the names of wife and children, but actually they behave like tigers and jackals. A herdsman tries to protect his sheep to the best of his ability, but the tigers and foxes take them away by force. Similarly, although a miserly man wants to guard his money very carefully, his family members take away all his assets forcibly, even though he is very vigilant. PURPORT One Hindi poet has sung: din ka dakini rat ka baghini palak palak rahu cuse. During the daytime, the wife is compared to a witch, and at night she is compared to a tigress. Her only business is sucking the blood of her husband both day and night. During the day there are household expenditures, and the money earned by the husband at the cost of his blood is taken away. At night, due to sex pleasure, the husband discharges blood in the form of semen. In this way he is bled by his wife both day and night, yet he is so crazy that he very carefully maintains her. Similarly, the children are also like tigers, jackals and foxes. As tigers, jackals and foxes take away lambs despite the herdsman’s vigilant protection, children take away the father’s money, although the father supervises the money himself. Thus family members may be called wives and children, but actually they are plunderers. SB 5.14.4 Every year the plowman plows over his grain field, completely uprooting all weeds. Nonetheless, the seeds lie there and, not being completely burned, again come up with the plants sown in the field. Even after being plowed under, the weeds come up densely. Similarly, the grhastha-asrama [family life] is a field of fruitive activity. Unless the desire to enjoy family life is completely burned out, it grows up again and again. Even though camphor may be removed from a pot, the pot nonetheless retains the aroma of camphor. As long as the seeds of desire are not destroyed, fruitive activities are not destroyed. PURPORT Unless one’s desires are completely transferred to the service of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the desire for family life continues. even after one has taken sannyasa. Sometimes in our society, ISKCON. a person out of sentiment may take sannyasa, but because his desires are not burned completely, he again takes to family life, even at the risk of losing his prestige and disgracing his good name. These strong desires can be burned out completely when one fully engages in the service of the Lord in devotional service. SB 5.14.5 Sometimes the conditioned soul in household life, being attached to material wealth and possessions, is disturbed by gadflies and mosquitoes, and sometimes locusts, birds of prey and rats give him trouble. Nonetheless, he still wanders down the path of material existence. Due to ignorance he becomes lusty and engages in fruitive activity. Because his mind is absorbed in these activities, he sees the material world as permanent, although it is temporary like a phantasmagoria, a house in the sky. PURPORT The following song is sung by Narottama dasa thakura: ahankare matta hana, nitai-. pasariya, asatyere satya kari mani Due to forgetting the lotus feet of Lord Nityananda and being puffed up by material possessions, wealth and opulence, one thinks the false, temporary material world to be an actual fact. This is the material disease. The living entity is eternal and blissful, but despite miserable material conditions, he thinks the material world to be real and factual due to his ignorance. SB 5.14.6 There are two worlds—the spiritual and the material. The material world is false like a mirage in the desert. In the desert, animals think they see water, but actually there is none. Similarly, those who are animalistic try to find peace within the desert of material life. It is repeatedly said in different sastras that there is no pleasure in this material world. Furthermore, even if we agree to live without pleasure, we are not allowed to do so. In Bhagavad-gita, Lord Krsna says that the material world is not only full of miseries (duhkhalayam) but also temporary (asasvatam). Even if we want to live here amid miseries, material nature will not allow us to do so. It will oblige us to change bodies and enter another atmosphere full of miserable conditions. SB 5.14.7 Sometimes the living entity is interested in the yellow stool known as gold and runs after it. That gold is the source of material opulence and envy, and it can enable one to afford illicit sex, gambling, meat-eating and intoxication. Those whose minds are overcome by the mode of passion are attracted by the color of gold, just as a man suffering from cold in the forest runs after a phosphorescent light in a marshy land, considering it to be fire. PURPORT Pariksit Maharaja told Kali-yuga to leave his kingdom immediately and reside in four places: brothels, liquor shops, slaughterhouses and gambling casinos. However, Kali-yuga requested him to give him only one place where these four places are included, and Pariksit Maharaja gave him the place where gold is stored. Gold encompasses the four principles of sin, and therefore, according to spiritual life, gold should be avoided as far as possible. If there is gold, there is certainly illicit sex, meat-eating, gambling and intoxication. Because people in the Western world have a great deal of gold, they are victims of these four sins. The color of gold is very glittering, and a materialistic person becomes very much attracted by its yellow color. However, this gold is actually a type of stool. A person with a bad liver generally passes yellow stool. The color of this stool attracts a materialistic person, just as the will-o’-the-wisp attracts one who needs heat. SB 5.14.8 Sometimes the conditioned soul is absorbed in finding residential quarters or apartments and getting a supply of water and riches to maintain his body. Absorbed in acquiring a variety of necessities, he forgets everything and perpetually runs around the forest of material existence. PURPORT As originally mentioned, a poor man belonging to the mercantile community goes to the forest to get some cheap goods to bring back to the city to sell at a profit. He is so absorbed in the thought of maintaining body and soul together that he forgets his original relationship with Krsna and seeks only the bodily comforts. Thus material activities are the conditioned soul’s only engagement. Not knowing the aim of life, the materialist perpetually wanders in material existence, struggling to get the necessities of life. Not understanding the aim of life, even though he acquires sufficient necessities, he manufactures artificial necessities and thus becomes more and more entangled. He creates a mental situation whereby he needs greater and greater comforts. The materialist does not know the secret of nature’s ways. As confirmed in Bhagavad-gita (3.27): prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani sarvasah ahankara-vimudhatma kartaham iti manyate “The bewildered spirit soul, under the influence of the three modes of material nature, thinks himself to be the doer of activities which are in actuality carried out by nature.” Due to lusty desire, the living entity creates a certain mental situation whereby he wants to enjoy this material world. He thus becomes entangled, enters different bodies and suffers in them. SB 5.14.9 Sometimes, as if blinded by the dust of a whirlwind, the conditioned soul sees the beauty of the opposite sex, which is called pramada. Being thus bewildered, he is raised upon the lap of a woman, and at that time his good senses are overcome by the force of passion. He thus becomes almost blind with lusty desire and disobeys the rules and regulations governing sex life. He does not know that his disobedience is witnessed by different demigods, and he enjoys illicit sex in the dead of night, not seeing the future punishment awaiting him. PURPORT In Bhagavad-gita (7.11) it is said: dharmaviruddho bhutesu kamo ’smi bharatarsabha. Sex is allowed only for the begetting of children, not for enjoyment. One can indulge in sex to beget a good child for the benefit of the family, society and world. Otherwise, sex is against the rules and regulations of religious life. A materialistic person does not believe that everything is managed in nature, and he does not know that if one does something wrong, he is witnessed by different demigods. A person enjoys illicit sex, and due to his blind, lusty desire. he thinks that no one can see him, but this illicit sex is thoroughly observed by the agents of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore the person is punished in so many ways. presently in Kali-yuga there are many pregnancies due to illicit sex, and sometimes abortions ensue. These sinful activities are witnessed by the agents of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and a man and woman who create such a situation are punished in the future by the stringent laws of material nature (daivi hy esa guna-mayi mama maya duratyaya). Illicit sex is never excused, and those who indulge in it are punished life after life. As confirmed in Bhagavad-gita (16.20): asurim yonim apanna mudha janmani janmani mam aprapyaiva kaunteya tato yanty adhamam gatim “Attaining repeated birth among the species of demoniac life, such persons can never approach Me. Gradually they sink down to the most abominable type of existence.” The Supreme Personality of Godhead does not allow anyone to act against the stringent laws of material nature; therefore illicit sex is punished life after life. Illicit sex creates pregnancies, and these unwanted pregnancies lead to abortion. Those involved become implicated in these sins, so much so that they are punished in the same way the next life. Thus in the next life they also enter the womb of a mother and are killed in the same way. All these things can be avoided by remaining on the transcendental platform of Krsna consciousness. In this way one does not commit sinful activity. Illicit sex is the most prominent sin due to lusty desire. When one associates with the mode of passion, he is implicated in suffering life after life. SB 5.14.10 The conditioned soul sometimes personally appreciates the futility of sense enjoyment in the material world, and he sometimes considers material enjoyment to be full of miseries. However, due to his strong bodily conception, his memory is destroyed, and again and again he runs after material enjoyment, just as an animal runs after a mirage in the desert. PURPORT The main disease in material life is the bodily conception. Being baffled again and again in material activity, the conditioned soul temporarily thinks of the futility of material enjoyment, but he again tries the same thing. By the association of devotees, a person may become convinced of the material futility, but he cannot give up his engagement, although he is very eager to return home, back to Godhead. Under these circumstances, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is situated in everyone’s heart, compassionately takes away all the material possessions of such a devotee. As stated in srimad-Bhagavatam (10.88.8): yasyaham anugrhnami harisye tad-dhanam sanaih. Lord Krsna says that He takes everything away from the devotee whom He especially favors when that devotee is overly attached to material possessions. When everything is taken away, the devotee feels helpless and frustrated in society, friendship and love. He feels that his family does not care for him any longer, and he therefore completely surrenders unto the lotus feet of the Supreme Lord. This is a special favor granted by the Lord to a devotee who cannot fully surrender to the Lord due to a strong bodily conception. As explained in Caitanya-caritamrta (Madhya 22.39): ami—vijna, ei murkhe ‘visaya’ kene diba. The Lord understands the devotee who hesitates to engage in the Lord’s service, not knowing whether he should again try to revive his material life. After repeated attempts and failures, he fully surrenders to the lotus feet of the Lord. The Lord then gives him directions, and, attaining happiness, he forgets all material engagement. SB 5.14.11 Sometimes the conditioned soul is very aggrieved by the chastisement of his enemies and government servants, who use harsh words against him directly or indirectly. At that time his heart and ears become very saddened. Such chastisement may be compared to the sounds of owls and crickets. PURPORT There are different types of enemies within this material world. The government chastises one due to not paying income taxes. Such criticism, direct or indirect, saddens one, and sometimes the conditioned soul tries to counteract that chastisement. Unfortunately, he cannot do anything. SB 5.14.12 Due to his pious activities in previous lives, the conditioned soul attains material facilities in this life, but when they are finished, he takes shelter of wealth and riches, which cannot help him in this life or the next. Because of this, he approaches the living dead who possess these things. Such people are compared to impure trees, creepers and poisonous wells. PURPORT The wealth and riches acquired through previous pious activities should not be misused for sense gratification. Enjoying them for sense gratification is like enjoying the fruits of a poisonous tree. Such activities will not help the conditioned soul in any way, neither in this life nor the next. However, if one engages his possessions in the service of the Lord under the guidance of a proper spiritual master. he will attain happiness both in this life and the next. Unless he does so, he eats a forbidden apple and thereby loses his paradise. Lord sri Krsna therefore advises that one’s possessions should be given unto Him. yat karosi yad asnasi yaj juhosi dadasi yat yat tapasyasi kaunteya tat kurusva mad-arpanam “O son of Kunti, all that you do, all that you eat, all that you offer and give away, as well as all austerities that you may perform, should be done as an offering unto Me.” (Bg. 9.27) Material wealth and opulence attained through previous pious activities can be fully utilized for one’s benefit in this life and the next if one is Krsna conscious. One should not try to possess more than he needs for the bare necessities. If one gets more than is needed, the surplus should be fully engaged in the Lord’s service. That will make the conditioned soul, the world and Krsna happy, and this is the aim of life. SB 5.14.13 Sometimes, to mitigate distresses in this forest of the material world, the conditioned soul receives cheap blessings from atheists. He then loses all intelligence in their association. This is exactly like jumping in a shallow river. As a result one simply breaks his head. He is not able to mitigate his sufferings from the heat, and in both ways he suffers. The misguided conditioned soul also approaches so-called sadhus and svamis who preach against the principles of the Vedas. He does not receive benefit from them, either in the present or in the future. PURPORT Cheaters are always there to manufacture their own way of spiritual realization. To get some material benefit, the conditioned soul approaches these pseudo sannyasis and yogis for cheap blessings, but he does not receive any benefit from them, either spiritual or material. In this age there are many cheaters who show some jugglery and magic. They even create gold to amaze their followers, and their followers accept them as God. This type of cheating is very prominent in Kali-yuga. Visvanatha Cakravarti thakura describes the real guru in this way. samsara-davanala-lidha-loka- tranaya karunya-ghanaghanatvam praptasya kalyana-gunarnavasya vande guroh sri-caranaravindam ** One should approach a guru who can extinguish the blazing fire of this material world, the struggle for existence. people want to be cheated. and therefore they go to yogis and svamis who play tricks, but tricks do not mitigate the miseries of material life. If being able to manufacture gold is a criterion for becoming God, then why not accept Krsna, the proprietor of the entire universe, wherein there are countless tons of gold? As mentioned before, the color of gold is compared to the will-O’-the-wisp or yellow stool; therefore one should not be allured by gold-manufacturing gurus but should sincerely approach a devotee like Jada Bharata. Jada Bharata instructed Rahugana Maharaja so well that the King was relieved from the bodily conception. One cannot become happy by accepting a false guru. A guru should be accepted as advised in srimad-Bhagavatam (11.3.21). Tasmad gurum prapadyeta jijnasuh sreya uttamam: One should approach a bona fide guru to inquire about the highest benefit of life. Such a guru is described as follows: sabde pare ca nisnatam. Such a guru does not manufacture gold or juggle words. He is well versed in the conclusions of Vedic knowledge (vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyah [bg. 15.15]). He is freed from all material contamination and is fully engaged in Krsna’s service. If one is able to obtain the dust of the lotus feet of such a guru, his life becomes successful. Otherwise he is baffled both in this life and in the next. SB 5.14.14 In this material world, when the conditioned soul cannot arrange for his own maintenance, despite exploiting others, he tries to exploit his own father or son, taking away that relative’s possessions, although they may be very insignificant. If he cannot acquire things from his father, son or other relatives, he is prepared to give them all kinds of trouble. PURPORT Once we actually saw a distressed man steal ornaments from his daughter just to maintain himself. As the English proverb goes, necessity knows no law. When a conditioned soul needs something, he forgets his relationship with his relatives and exploits his own father or son. We also receive information from srimad-Bhagavatam that in this age of Kali the time is quickly approaching when a relative will kill another relative for a small farthing. Without Krsna consciousness, people will deteriorate further and further into a hellish condition wherein they will perform abominable acts. SB 5.14.15 In this world, family life is exactly like a blazing fire in the forest. There is not the least happiness, and gradually one becomes more and more implicated in unhappiness. In household life, there is nothing favorable for perpetual happiness. Being implicated in home life, the conditioned soul is burned by the fire of lamentation. Sometimes he condemns himself as being very unfortunate, and sometimes he claims that he suffers because he performed no pious activities in his previous life. PURPORT In the Gurv-astaka, srila Visvanatha Cakravarti thakura has sung: samsara-davanala-lidha-loka- tranaya karunya-ghanaghanatvam ** A life in this material world is exactly like a blazing forest fire. No one goes to set fire to the forest, yet the fire takes place. Similarly. everyone wants to be happy in the material world, but the miserable conditions of material life simply increase. Sometimes a person caught in the blazing fire of material existence condemns himself, but due to his bodily conception he cannot get out of the entanglement, and thus he suffers more and more.

… has perfected complicated explanations, cheating, and cheap entertainment. It has practically destroyed anything of value. Including the nuclear family. This is the leadership of the rich.

From Nectar of Devotion Devotees can be divided into three classes. The first or uppermost class is described as follows: one is very expert in the study of relevant scriptures, and he is also expert in putting forward arguments in terms of those scriptures. He can very nicely present conclusions with perfect discretion and can consider the ways of devotional service in a decisive way. He understands perfectly that the ultimate goal of life is to attain to the transcendental loving service of Krsna, and he knows that Krsna is the only object of worship and love. This first-class devotee is one who has strictly followed the rules and regulations under the training of a bona fide spiritual master and has sincerely obeyed him in accord with revealed scriptures. Thus being fully trained to preach and become a spiritual master himself, he is considered first class. A first-class devotee never deviates from the principles of higher authority, and he attains firm faith in the scriptures by understanding with all reason and arguments. When we speak of arguments and reason, it means arguments and reason on the basis of revealed scripture. The first-class devotee is not interested in dry speculative methods meant for wasting time. In other words, one who has attained a mature determination in the matter of devotional service can be accepted as the first-class devotee. The second-class devotee has been defined by the following symptoms: he is not very expert in arguing on the strength of revealed scripture, but he has firm faith in the objective. The purport of this description is that the second-class devotee has firm faith in the procedure of devotional service unto Krsna, but he may sometimes fail to offer arguments and decisions on the strength of revealed scripture to an opposing party. But at the same time he is still undaunted within himself as to his decision that Krsna is the supreme object of worship. The neophyte or third-class devotee is one whose faith is not strong and, at the same time, does not recognize the decision of the revealed scripture. The neophyte's faith can be changed by someone else with strong arguments or by an opposite decision. Unlike the second-class devotee, who also cannot put forward arguments and evidences from the scripture, but who still has all faith in the objective, the neophyte has no firm faith in the objective. Thus he is called the neophyte devotee. ............................................... Further classification of the neophyte devotee is made in the Bhagavad-gita. It is stated there that four classes of men-namely those who are distressed, those who are in need of money, those who are inquisitive and those who are wise-begin devotional service and come to the Lord for relief in the matter of their respective self-satisfaction. They go into some place of worship and pray to God for mitigation of material distress, or for some economic development, or to satisfy their inquisitiveness. And a wise man who simply realizes the greatness of God is also counted among the neophytes. Such beginners can be elevated to the second-class or first-class platform if they associate with pure devotees. An example of the neophyte class is Maharaj Dhruva. He was in need of his father's kingdom and therefore engaged himself in devotional service to the Lord. Then in the end when he was completely purified he declined to accept any material benediction from the Lord. Similarly, Gajendra was distressed and prayed to Krsna for protection, after which he became a pure devotee. Similarly, Sanaka, Sanatana, Sananda and Sanat-kumara were all in the category of wise, saintly persons, and they were also attracted by devotional service. A similar thing happened to the assemblage in the Naimisaranya Forest, headed by the sage Saunaka. They were inquisitive and were always asking Süta Gosvämé about Krsna. Thus they achieved the association of a pure devotee and became pure devotees themselves. So that is the way of elevating oneself. In whatever condition one may be, if he is fortunate enough to associate with pure devotees, then very quickly he is elevated to the second-class or first-class platform. These four types of devotees have been described in the Seventh Chapter of the Bhagavad-gita, and they have all been accepted as pious. Without becoming pious no one can come to devotional service. It is explained in the Bhagavad-gita that only one who has continually executed pious activities and whose sinful reactions in life have completely stopped can take to Krsna consciousness. Others cannot. The neophyte devotees are classified into four groups-the distressed, those in need of money, the inquisitive and the wise-according to their gradations of pious activities. Without pious activities, if a man is in a distressed condition he becomes an agnostic, communist or something like that. Because he does not firmly believe in God, he thinks that he can adjust his distressed condition by totally disbelieving in Him. Lord Krsna, however, has explained in the Gita that out of these four types of neophytes, the one who is wise is very dear to Him because a wise man, if he is attached to Krsna, is not seeking an exchange of material benefits. A wise man who becomes attached to Krsna does not want any return from Him, neither in the form of relieving distress, nor in gaining money. This means that from the very beginning his basic principle of attachment to Krsna is, more or less, love. Furthermore, due to his wisdom and study of sastras (scriptures), he can understand also that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gita that after many, many births, when one becomes actually wise, he surrenders unto Väsudeva, knowing perfectly well that Krsna (Vasudeva) is the origin and cause of all causes. Therefore, he sticks to the lotus feet of Krsna and gradually develops love for Him. Although such a wise man is very dear to Krsna, the others are also accepted as very magnanimous because even though they are distressed or in need of money, they have come to Krsna for satisfaction. Thus they are accepted as liberal, broad-minded mahatmas. Without being elevated to the position of a jnani, or wise man, no one can stick to the principle of worshiping the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Others who are less intelligent, or those whose intelligence has been taken away by the spell of maya, are attached to different demigods, on account of the influence of the modes of nature. The wise man is he who has thoroughly understood that he is spirit soul and not simply a body. Because he realizes that he is spirit and that Krsna is the supreme spirit, he knows that his intimate relationship should be with Krsna, not with this body. The distressed and the man in want of money are in the material concept of life because distress and need of money are both in relationship with this body. One who is inquisitive may be a little above the distressed and the man in need of money, but still he is on the material platform. But a wise man who seeks Krsna knows perfectly well that he is spirit soul, or Brahman, and that Krsna is the supreme spirit soul, or Param-Brahman. He knows that the spirit soul, being subordinate and finite, should always dovetail himself with the infinite and supreme soul, Krsna. That is the relationship of the wise man with Krsna.

Of coarse, money is the basis of equality now. I mean you have to be able to afford justice. Actually, that means there is no justice. There is no law. It's just 'artificial' power. But that's about to get a whole lot harder to manage. /images/graemlins/smile.gif .............................. Guest: I think there is more than empirical. Hridy: Yes. Let’s say (never mind God) we’re not going to do certain things and then everyone agrees. Ok, we’ll agree. Now there are situations where a group of people can successfully agree we’re going to respect each other apart from any other religious consideration and actually carry it out. But unfortunately, in the world at the present time, no such agreements appear possible. If you just want agreement for practical purposes, that’s one thing. But you see, beyond that, we actuallymean to say – like Apartheid– we do say in South Africa or Central America something wrong is being done. I’m questioning whether the statement something wrong is being done is a real statement. Is that true? Or is it just emotion? Is there such a thing as justice and injustice? Now talking about equality under law, if we perform any type of empirical test will get different scores – sometimes you’ll win, sometimes I’ll win. But it will always come out different. It is the same for everyone in this room. So that’s why you made your statement. On what basis is there equality under the law? Is it just imagination? Is it just foolishness? Why are we equal? So like you said, I also say we are equal spiritually. It is a fact we are equal in the most fundamental sense. It is a fact that if I harm you, I’m really harming myself. I accept that to be true. But it’s not true from a materialist viewpoint. That’s my point. What I’m actually getting at is, if you examine the feelings and convictions we have, they imply the existence of certain spiritual truths. If you are honest enough to examine the implications of your own convictions, you’ll find your convictions imply some spiritual truths. Why should we therefore cling to these ethical convictions and cut them off artificially from the spiritual truths which actually support and explain them? But that’s exactly what goes on in America. You find a climate in which it’s very fashionable for an intellectual to be an agnostic or not accept the soul. You’re suppose to do that. Many big scientists… of course there are exceptions, I know it’s not an absolute rule. But a general climate has been created there. If you really do believe we are equal – which I also accept – then why not accept the implication that the equality is spiritual, not material? .............................. Ironic how the people most ignorant of themselves are so quick to speak of absolute atheistic standards for others. Sidenote: The 36th chapter in the Nectar of Devotion is called "Transcendental Affection (Servitude)." I think it's interesting how servitude is included in that title.

Hey, what happened to the meat? http://netscape.bhg.com/bhg/story.jhtml;jsessionid=GT04SJ2CSPCCHQFIBQNR5VWAVABB4IV0?storyid=/templatedata/lhj/story/data/11RejuvenatingSuperfoods_05122004.xml&catref=bcat142&page=2

Think about the atom. Well, isn't it obvious? Think about the scripture(s) describing the atom. It's not real until the scientists confirm it? Did scientists "discover" the atom(s)? More likely they stole the idea from VEDIC scriptures and went looking for 'em. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Yeap, taking all of history that we know and especially the recent events, it's just too obvious that the conditions for aanihilation are manifest. Maybe Krsna told someone, somewhere, we're already dead (as He did at Kuruksetra). Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is As I was walking down the street one day A man came up to me and asked me what the time was that was on my watch, yeah And I said Does anybody really know what time it is I don't Does anybody really care care If so I can't imagine why about time We've all got time enough to cry Oh no, no And I was walking down the street one day A pretty lady looked at me and said her diamond watch had stopped cold, yeah And I said Does anybody really know what time it is I don't Does anybody really care care If so I can't imagine why about time We've all got time enough to cry Oh no, no And I was walking down the street one day Being pushed and shoved by people trying to beat the clock, oh no, I just don't know, I just don't know And I said, yes I said Background Vocal: People runnin' everywhere Don't know the way to go Don't know where I am Can't see past the next step Don't have to think past the last mile Have no time to look around Just run around, run around and think why Does anybody really know what time it is I don't Does anybody really care care If so I can't imagine why about time We've all got time enough to die Oh no, no [i've Been] Searching So Long As my life goes on I believe Somehow something's changed Something deep inside Ooh a part of me There's a strange new light in my eyes Things I've never known Changin' my life Changin' me I've been searchin' So long To find an answer Now I know my life has meaning Ow oh Now I see myself as I am Feeling very free Life is everything Ooh it's meant to be When my tears have come to an end I will understand What I left behind Part of me I've been searching So long To find and answer Now I know my life has meaning Woah woah Searching Don't you know I'm hell yeah For an answer To the question Oh yeah For our minds Baby Baby it's true It's only natural It's only natural baby, yeah Good things In life Take a long time yeah yeah - Chicago

I accept that. Seems self-evident the way you put it. I was trying to conceive in terms of numbers… there being so many of them. When I do this thinking of entities within entities, it's like that infinite expands into the infinite concept of existential matter. I wonder what the average duration of the soul is in the material world.

That's a good one; life in radioactive waste. It's just so far beyond our understanding we can only gawk in dismay. The miracles all around us… (Unlimited entities in unlimited situations. Don't get lost in the details). This unusual friend that creates and controls unlimited life… better not treat 'em like people we meet here. That we can be an intimate part of that person's life… we can only gawk in dismay.

"Its not something you can join or quit." ooooH, I like this. "Only someone who goes through the personal experience of full surrender is religious." Hmmm, I guess this is not talking simply about verification or our "moments" we get from time to time, but something more substantial. "So if you aren’t experiencing surrender to Krishna then you cannot know Him. As long as you think you are happy and you’ll just chant a little ‘Hare Krsna’ this is not advancement. I can’t go any further without surrendering to God. I have to pray and surrender. This is the beginning of spiritual life." Yeap, there it is.

I think you have the right attitude toward your accepted devatta (is that the right word?… or ishvatta?). It is admirable. I even envy it. And no one should mess with that (… unless of coarse he's looking for a short cut to hell).

We disagree again. But that's ok again. Your points are valid, but not absolute. There are other possibilites. I don't think we can discuss if Arjuna is purer than Hunuman and we really can't discuss the highly ethical subtuties of the religious process. We'd have to be alot more demonstrative in our actions to appear to be on that level. I may not accept your claims… and visa-versa. So it's best not to take it any further when there is no positive proof either way. My respects. I bow out. I don't feel I have to convince you of my perspective. In any case, you obviously have a different experience. Perhaps you're right. I'm hope I'm sane enough to acknowledge that possibility.

So we disagree. That's ok with me. No fight.

It was hypothetical. (Thought it was obvious). I'm SORRY. I'm just talking philosophy and ettiquette. I'm not accusing you.

I don't know what imho means. The spiritual master is not just giving beads and a party. His duty is to give consciousness. If a disciple doesn't develop it, then he can hardly be said to be competent. I hope your not insinuating that just because someone is initiated they must be more sincere. Surely, you didn't say that. So it really comes down to the truth of the individual application. And conditioned souls routinely kill one another out of ignorance. What to speak of the understanding another's finer points of ethics and moral positioning. And we can fake each other out. So t's really between you and your maker… and undisputed authorities like Prabhupada or Caitanya and so on… (there are many for sure). The rest of us cannot be authorities on each other's conditioning or spiritual position.

After reading your first absolute statement and the context of your meaning, I bow out of the discussion. My opinion won't make any difference, so I'll just keep it to my self. But your statement makes me wonder if you think pure devotees are as constant as the availability of religion. You think there will always be a pure devotee in Kali-yuga who is manifest for the "sincere"? Actually, it's the material world and the official succession breaks sooner or later. It has already broken many times from religious histories. You may have a pure devotee for a spiritual master, that doesn't mean the succession is carried through you unless you become spiritual master. I think your answer simplistic. But I'm not interested in pursuing this topic. I remember Prabhupada thinking his success would be in making just "one" pure devotee.