Jump to content
IndiaDivine.org

Kulapavana

Members
  • Content Count

    4,984
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by Kulapavana

  1. I have tremendous respect for Sucandra-ji. He is humble and devoted, and he performed lots of service over many years. I wish I was more like him. While I may disagree with some of his conclusions, my goal is to broaden his perspective - not to show my superiority - because superiority in theoretical knowledge is useless for a devotee.
  2. Maybe it means that soon you will give birth to someone very dear to the Divine Mother, or that you already did?
  3. Wrong again. From Wikipedia: "Bhaja Govindam is a very popular 8th century[1] Hindu devotional composition in Sanskrit composed by Adi Shankaracharya. This work of Adi Shankara underscores the view that devotion (Bhakti) to God, Govinda, is a vastly important part of general spirituality and especially Bhakti Yoga and Bhakti movement [2] This work is generally considered a good summary of Advaita Vedanta." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhaja_Govindam Prabhupada actually said that it is OK to read Adi Shankaracharya's books, but not the books of his followers.
  4. No, it is not my call. It is the call of the leaders of this movement that Prabhupada chose and trained. He picked the lineup and they are the ones who play the game. I am just commenting on their performance as the game unfolds. So far it was not a very good show.
  5. Adi Shankaracharya revealed this: *Bhaja Govindam of Adi Shankara* Verse 1: BHAJA GOVINDAM, BHAJA GOVINDAM GOVINDAM BHAJA MUDHAMATE SAMPRAAPTE SANNIHITE KALE NA HI NA HI RAKSHATI DUKRINKARANE Seek Govinda! Seek Govinda! Seek Govinda! Oh ignoramus, at the time of death the rules of grammer, which you are trying to cram and master, will not be able to rescue you at all. (Grammer rules mean all secular knowledge and earthly acquistitions. Mudhamati means a materialist, wholely worldly-minded, who does not believe in God or the spiritual entity that is in man) Verse 2: MOODHA JAHEEHI DHANAAGAMATRISHNAAM KURU SADBUDHIM MANASI VITRISHNAAM YALLABHASE NIJAKARMOPAATHAM VITHAM TENA VINODAYA CHITHAM (refrain from Verse 1 to be sung after every verse...BHAJA GOVINDAM, BHAJA GOVINDAM..........) Oh, Fool! give up your insatiable desire for earthly possessions; be sensible and develop serenity and contentment. Be satisfied and happy with whatever you may earn by the sweat of your brow and whatever has destiny marked for your lot. Verse 3: NAAREE STHANABHARA NABHEEDESAM DHRISHTWA MAA GAA MOHAVESAM YETAN MAAMSAVASAADI VIKAARAM MANASI VICHINTHAYA VAARAM VAARAM Enticed by the physical glamour of a woman, do not lose your senses; the body is nothing but a conglomeration of flesh, do not forget this any time. Verse 4: NALINEEDALAGATHA JALAMATITHARALAM TADWAJJEEVITAMATHISHAYA CHAPALAM VIDDHI VYADHYABHIMAANAGRASTAM LOKAM SHOKAHATAM CHA SAMASTHAM The water droplet on the lotus leaf is tremulous and unsteady. So too is life which is as uncertain. Know the body to be in the claws of disease, which may swallow it at any moment. Life is ultimately nothing but worry, misery and grief. Verse 5: YAAVADVITTOPAARJANA SAKTHAH TAAVANNIJAPARIVAARO RAKTHAH PASCHAAJJEEVATI JARJARADEHE VAARTHAM KOPI NA PRICHCHATHI GEHE As long as you are fit to make an earning, so long will your kith and kin be solicitous about you, but no sooner your limbs become infirm and your earnings cease, none will care for you, not even your own home-folk. Verse 6: YAAVATPAVANO NIVASATI DEHE TAAVATPRICHCHATI KUSHALAM GEHE GATAVATI VAAYO DEHAAPAAYE BHAARYA BIBHYATI TASMINKAAYE As long as there is life in your body, your people may have concern for you, but once the life-breath ebbs out of your body, even your own wife will run away from you. Verse 7: BAALASTAAVAT KREEDAA SAKTHAH THARUNASTAAVAT THARUNEESAKTHAH VRIDDHASTAAVAT CHINTHAASAKTHAH PARASE BRAHMANI KOPI NA SAKTHA Childhood skips off on sport and play. Youth flies off in pursuits of love-making. As one grows older he is drowned in worry about the security and future of his wife and children. One's whole life gets spent in some kind of worry or other. And at no stage does man find time to lift his thoughts to God. Verse 8: KAA TE KAANTAA KASTE PUTHRAH SAMSAROYAMATEEVA VICHITRAH KASYA TWAM KAH KUTHA AAYAATAH TATWAM CHINTHAYA TADIHA BHARATAH Who indeed is your beloved and who indeed is your son? Strange indeed are these family bonds; who belongs to you and to whom you belong? Whence did you come, Oh brother! Reflect on the truth of it all. Verse 9: SATSANGATWE NISSANGATWAM NISSANGATWE NIRMOHATWAM NIRMOHATWE NISCHALATATWAM NISCHALATATWE JEEVANMUKTHIH The company of the good weans one away from false attachments; when attachment is lost, delusion ends; when delusion ends, the mind becomes unwavering and steady. An unwavering and steady mind is merited for Jeevan Mukti (liberation even in this life). Verse 10: VAYASI GATE KAH KAMAVIKARAH SHUSHKE NEERE, KAH KAASAARAH KSHEENE VITHE KAH PARIVARO GYNATE TATWE KAH SAMASARAH When youth is gone, where is lust and its play? Where is the lake when its waters have dried up? Where are the kinsfolk when riches are gone ? When Truth is realised, where is the snare of Samsara? Verse 11: MAA KURU DHANAJANAYOUVANAGARVAM HARATI NIMESHAATKAALAH SARWAM MAAYAAMAYAMIDAMAKHILAM HITHWA BRAHMAPADAM TWAM PRAVISHA VIDITWA The pleasures and riches of worldly life are deceptive appearances. Understanding that they are all but a passing-show, be detached and dispassionate, cultivate renunciation and seek Brahman. Verse 12: DINAYAAMINYOU SAAYAM PRAATAH SHISHIRAVASANTOW PUNARAAYAATAH KAALAH KREEDATI GACHCHATYAAYUH TADAPI NA MUNCHATHYAASAAVAAYUH Day and night, dawn and dusk, winter and spring, all these are flitting across the stage of the world. While time thus is frolicking and befooling us, our life span is also running out; yet we do not, even a little, give up the clinging to our desires, nor do we let the desires loosen their grip on us. Verse 13: KAA TE KAANTAA DHANAGATACHINTAA VAATULA KIM TAVA NAASTI NIYANTAA TRIJAGATI SAJJANASANGATIREKAA BHAVATI BHAVAARNAVATARANE NOUKAA Crazy man ! Why do you worry so much about your wife and property? Why don't you seek out the Truth? Know that in these three worlds it is only the association with the good and holy that can help you in crossing safely the ocean of life. Verse 14: JATILO MUNDI LUNCHITAKESHAH KAASHAAYAAMBARA BAHUKRITAVESHAH PASYANNAPI CHA NA PASYATI MOODHO HIUDARANIMITAM BAHUKRITAVESHAH The ascetic with matted locks, the man with the shaven head or one with hair pulled out, or the man parading in the ochre robes -- they all have eyes but yet do not see. All these are but deceptions for cheating the world, for filling their bellies. (Renunciation does not lie in external appearance, but in inward thought, attitude and feeling). Verse 15: ANGAM GALITAM PALITAM MUNDAM DASANAVIHEENAM JAATAM TUNDAM VRIDHDHO YAATI GRIHEETWA DANDAM TADAPI NA MUNCHATYAASHAAPINDAM The body has become decrepit, the hair on the head has turned completely gray; the mouth has become totally toothless; the back is bent down and the old man cannot take even a step witout the aid of his stick; yet he does not loosen even a bit, his hold on the bundle of desires. Verse 16: AGRE VAHNIH PRISHTE BHAANUH RAATHROW CHUBUKASAMARPITAJAANUH KARATALABHIKASHAS TARUTALAVAASAH TADAPI NA MUNCHATYAASHAAPAASAH Homeless he is; his back is bent down with age. His body has lost its heat and he has to warm himself before a fire or in the sun. Tree is his only shelter; he lives by begging and by the crumbs thrown into his palms by others; in the night he sleeps by holding his chin on his knee (because the back is bent and he cannot stretch himself and lie down). Yet, he does not let and allow the grip of desires on him loosen even a bit. Verse 17: KURUTE GANGAASAAGARAGAMANAM VRATAPARIPAALANAMATHAVAA DAANAM JNANAVIHEENAH SARVAMATENA MUKTIM NA BHAJATI JANMASATENA One may have bathed in the holy Ganges or even in the Ganga Sagar; he may have performed many charities and observed many vows; yet unless one has glimpsed the Truth (God), he will not gain release even after a hundred lives. Verse 18: SURAMANDIRA TARUMOOLA NIVAASAH SAIYAA BHOOTALAMAJINAM VAASAH SARVAPARIGRAHA BHOGATYAAGAH KASYA SUKHAM NA KAROTI VIRAAGAH Who can disturb the peace and happiness of a man if he has the true spirit of renunciation and has controlled his desires, even if he be the poorest, sleeping only in the temple halls and choultries or under trees or on the bare ground and just with a deer skin to cover. Verse 19: YOGARATO VAA BHOGARATO VAA SANGARATO VAA SANGAVIHEENAH YASYA BRAHMANI RAMATE CHITHAM NANDATI NANDATI NANDATYEVA Whether one is immersed in yoga or is revelling in bhoga (i.e, outward enjoyment), whether he is enjoying himself in social company or has retired into solitude, true happiness certainly cannot be his; but who alone is revelling inwardly in Brahman, (wherever he be), he alone will be truly happy and will verily enjoy. Verse 20: BHAGAVADGEETA KINCHIDADHEETAA GANGAAJALALAVAKANIKAA PEETAA SAKRIDAPI YENA MURARISAMARCHAA KRIYATE TASYA YAMENA NA CHARCHA Even a little study and understanding of the Bhagawad Gita, or sipping of even a tiny drop of the waters of the holy Ganges or even a little worship of Murari -- these will surely save one from confrontation with death! Verse 21: PUNARAPI JANANAM PUNARAPI MARANAM PUNARAPI JANANEE JATARE SAYANAM IHA SAMSAARE BAHUDUSTAARE KRIPAYAA(A)PAARE PAAHI MURARE Undergoing the pangs of birth again and again, passing through the throes of death again and again, lying in the mother's womb over and over again, this process of samsara is hard to cross over. Save me from it, Oh merciful Lord ! Verse 22: RATHYAACHARPATA VIRACHITAKANTHAH PUNYAAPUNYA VIVARJITAPANTHAH YOGEE YOGANIYOJITACHITHO RAMATE BAALONMATTAVADEVA Clad in stray rags, treading the path beyond good and evil, caring for neither earning merit by taking to good deeds nor stooping to do any evil, and lost in meditation the yogi revels in the Supreme always, lost to all outward norms and decorum -- his behaviour may look prankish like that of a child or may be even queer like that of a lunatic. Verse 23: KASTWAM KOHAM KUTA AAYAATAH KAA ME JANANEE KO ME TAATAH ITI PARIBHAVAYA SARVAMASAARAM VISWAM TYAKTWAA SWAPNAVICHAARAM Who are you ? Who am I ? From Where did I come? Who is my mother, who is my father? -- enquire thus and you will then realise that the entire world of experience, all the worries and problems are but a dream, a mere hallucination, born of imagination and delusion. With such a realisation, you will be freed from the delusions of the world. Verse 24: TWAYI MAYI CHAANYATRAIKO VISHNUH VYARTHAM KUPYASI MAYYASAHISHNUH BHAVA SAMACHITTAH SARVATRA TWAM VANCHHASYASHIRAADYADI VISHNUTWA In you, in me and everywhere, there is but the one Vishnu. Mistakenly viewing me with a sense of difference, you are ill-disposed towards me. Try to see in all beings only the Vishnu who is your own self. Give up your false and egoistic sense of separateness from other beings. Cultivate a sense of kinship, unity and oneness with all. Verse 25: SATROU MITRE PUTRE BANDHOU MAA KURU YATNAM VIGRAHASANDHOU SARVASMINNAPI PASYAATMAANAM SARVATROTSRIJA BHEDAAJNYANA Do not look at anybody in terms of friend or foe, brother or cousin; do not fritter away your mental energies in thoughts of friendship or enemity. Seeking the Self everywhere, be amiable and equal-minded towards all, treating all alike. Verse 26: KAAMAM KRODHAM LOBHAM MOHAM TYAKTWAA TMAANAM PASHYATI SOHAM AATMAJNANA VIHEENAA MUDAAH TE PASYANTE NARAKANIGOODAAH Free yourself from lust, anger, greed and delusion. Contemplate on 'who you are'. Enquire within yourself, who am I? The fools who fail to apprehend the Self are caught in hell-fire even here and now itself and suffer torture. Verse 27: GEYAM GEETAANAAMASAHASRAM DHYEYAM SHREEPATIROOPAMAJASRAM NEYAM SAJJANASANGE CHITTAM DEYAM DEENAJANAAYA CHA VITTAM Recite the Gita; chant the thousand Names of the lord (Vishnu Sahasranama), meditate ceaselessly on the Consort and Lord of Lakshmi; lead the mind towards association with the good. Give away your wealth in charity to those in need and who are poor. Verse 28: SUKHATAH KRIYATE RAAMAABHOGAH PASCHADDHANTA SHAREERE ROGAH YADYAPI LOKE MARANAM SARANAM TADAPI NA MUNJCHATI PAAPAACHARANAM As readily as one takes to indulging in carnal pleasures, with the same readiness, alas, he is taken over by disease too. Even seeing death as the inevitable and only end of all, man does not refrain from sinful ways. Verse 29: ARTHAMANARTHAM BHAAVAYA NITHYAM NAASTI TATAH SUKHALESAH SATHYAM PUTHRAADAPI DHANABHAAJAAM BHEETIH SARVATRAISHA VIHITA REETIH It is wealth only that causes all harm and brings about one's ruin. Bear this truth in mind always. Know that the pursuit of wealth does not lead one to happiness at all. The rich fear and are even afraid of their own sons. This is the outcome of riches anywhere and ever. Verse 30: PRAANAAYAAMAM PRATYAAHAARAM NITYAANITYA VIVEKAVICHAARAM JAAPYASAMETA SAMAADHIVIDHAANAM KURVAVADHAANAM MAHADAVADHAANAM Regulated breathing and sense control, discrimination between the Enduring and the fleeting, the Eternal and the transcient, Japa and meditation, and submerging of the bodily and mental consciousness in the Consciousness of the Spirit, merging oneself into the total Inner Silence -- one must practice these with unrelenting fervour. Verse 31: GURUCHARANAAMBUJA NIRBHARABHAKTHAH SAMSAARAADACHIRAADHAVA MUKTHAH SENDRIYA MAANASA NIYAMAADEVAM DRAKSHYASI NIJAHRIDAYASTHAM DEVAM Surrender yourself to the Lotus Feet of the Guru; with your senses and mind disciplined, and freed from the shackles of Samsara you will behold the Lord who is seated in your heart.
  6. I'm not sure if Prabhupada considered Mohammed and Jesus being great devotees of Krishna. He considered them great devotees of God in general, altough I doubt he studied either one of them in detail. Since these two personalities inspired so many millions of people to surrender to God over many centuries, Prabhupada considered them to be great devotees. Would mahajans like Prahlada, Janaka or Bhishma disagree? I doubt that. Bhaktivinoda Thakura would certainly agree with Srila Prabhupada, for his religious vision was also very broad.
  7. That is not what I have said. Initially Prabhupada obviously thought that giving these unqualified disciples sannyasa was good for his movement. Later he saw that it was not, so he changed his mind. Still, initially he appointed unqualified people for positions he considered necessary. Why would he not do it with initiating gurus? He wanted Sridhara Maharaja to come with him to the West to preach, but SM refused. So who was to continue accepting new people as disciples? His own not-yet-ready disciples.
  8. For the same reason he appointed unqualified disciples to be sannyasis, GBCs and leaders of his movement - because he thought his movement needed these positions to be filled, and these people were all he had.
  9. The concept of Prabhupada making himself a "diksa guru for the next 10,000 years" is bogus because it is unauthorized by the tradition. No acharya EVER has done anything like that. No record of this type of a system in the shastra or recorded history of all 4 Vaishnava sampradayas. That is the logic and reason for calling it bogus. Acharyas do not make things up - they follow the path of the mahajans and previous acharyas. If they do make things up - they are not acharyas.
  10. What kind of a guru is Prabhupada talking about? See here: Prabhupada: "Like father, like son." You should be. In other words he wants his disciples (sons) to be a guru like him (father). He is certainly not making himself a "diksa guru for the next 10,000 years" - such a concept is completely bogus to the core - another invention of his untrained disciples.
  11. "Similarly, if a spiritual master cannot direct his disciples to become free of sinful activities, he becomes responsible for their sinful acts." (SB 4.20.14, purport) "The spiritual master has to take the responsibility for all the sinful activities of his disciples." (PQPA 6) 770415rc.bom Conversations Prabhupada: "Like father, like son." You should be. Gaurangera bhakta..., jane. Everyone. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, amara ajnaya guru hana tara' ei desa. He asked everyone, "Just become guru." Follow His instruction. You become guru. Amara ajnaya. Don't manufacture ideas. Amara ajnaya. "What I say, you do. You become a guru." Where is the difficulty? "And what is Your ajna?" Yare dekha tare kaha krsna-upadesa. Bas. Everything is there in the Bhagavad- gita. You simply repeat. That's all. You become guru. To become a guru is not difficult job. Follow Caitanya Mahaprabhu and speak what Krsna has said. Bas. You become guru..." <!-- / message -->
  12. Yes, it is definitely a good sign. Sometimes devotees have dreams about the murtis they worship, often including some instruction for them, or a special sign. We have to take such dreams very seriously, looking for possible instructions from the Divine.
  13. Why do you ritviks transform every other thread into a diksa debate???? And this was good how? His disciples were so poorly trained that they made up all sorts of bogus philosophies and bogus practices even when Prabhupada was still with them. And when Prabhupada left, they promptly transformed his mission into a total sham. Today you ritviks rightly criticize current "jet-lag gurus" because they fly here and there and never have time to properly train their disciples. Prabhupada did not train up very well even his leading disciples, what to speak of the rank and file members. Prabhupada had no choice but to try to train his disciples from afar - he was trying to start Mahaprabhu's movement in the West, translate books, etc. But that does not mean that this strategy did not have an inherent risk. It was a compromise, a risk Prabhupada took for the sake of Lord Caitanya's mission - not a practice to be followed from now on.
  14. Of course it is a blessing. The real blessing from the divine is change of our consciousness, not an increase in our bank balance (altough that can happen as well). Dreams of the Divine are always real. Our 'subconsciousness' is seeking out the Divine all the time, but only rarely we are blessed with the Divine appearing in our dreams. So consider yourself very blessed and be thankful to Mother Laxmi for inspiring you on the way to the spiritual world.
  15. It is obvious that Prabhupada wanted to impress the scientific community by his preaching. See this quote for example: "This preaching to the scientists is the next phase. If we can make an impression in the mind of the scientists then we can easily spread Krishna consciousness throughout the world" From a letter to TKG of August 7, 1977 However, the scientists were not impressed. It is not enough to merely call people hogs, camels, and asses if they don't take your words for granted because you claim to represent the vedic knowledge. You have to present fact based information that can be practically verified in order to be taken seriously by the scientific community. You have to first build your credibility in that way before you can attempt to present more esoteric subject matters. If you simply presents your 'Bible' and expect scientists to blindly accept it or be condemned as 'animals', you will most certainly fail in such 'preaching'. Especially if you also insist that such basic scientific knowledge as distance to the Moon (which has been measured in many different verifiable ways since antiquity) is all wrong.
  16. Neither does Prabhupada understand the anti-matter that was discovered by the scientists. Scientists did not discover spirit in their experiments as Prabhupada assumes - they simply discovered a different type of material energy. Thus the conversation is full of confusion. By his own admission Prabhupada was not a scientist and unfortunately some of his opinions regarding scientific matters were simply wrong. He was wrong on the antimatter being spirit and he was wrong on the Moon distance to Earth for example. Pretending otherwise is not being truthful. People of the world do not have a problem with Srila Prabhupada making an honest mistake in matters he was not expert on. People of the world have a problem with his disciples refusing to face the facts and be truthful in this matter. Liars are dime a dozen in this world, truthful people are rare and universally respected.
  17. In general, being part of the leela is recognized as the time when a devotee directly takes part in pastimes of Krsna's incarnation physically present here on earth.
  18. Truthfulness is also the ability to recognize and admit to an error.
  19. The point is that anti-matter discovered by scientiststs has been proven to be just another form of material particles - not spiritual energy as Prabhupada writes in EJTOP. And it has also been proven that anti-matter is NOT indestructible (see antihydrogen experiments described here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antihydrogen )
  20. At that time Srila Prabhupada used the opportunity of people's great interest in space travel to promote Krsna-consciousness. However, certain statements in that book (especially those relating to anti-matter being spirit) are based on assumptions which have been scientifically disproven in later years, and that is why this book is no longer being distributed.
  21. The way I understand it, madhyama-vaishnavas must practice honesty in all their dealings, maybe with the exception of trying to save someone's life. If an uttama-bhakta practices some form of deception it is certainly not a part of their sadhana but ultimately it also must pass the standard of 'judging by the results'. Examples from Krsna-leela should never be used to justify anything. What happens in the leela stays in the leela. If Lord Krsna stands next to you and tells you to tell a lie for His sake, that would be leela, but who can make such a claim of being part of the Lord's leela here and now? Those who tell you Krsna is telling them do something crooked, must be scrutinized most diligently to make sure they are not simply making it up.
  22. This approach was used by many devotees in the past to perform all kinds of ugra-karma, especially in fundraising. Sure, the bricks are there to prove the 'benefit' of such actions, but the bad publicity is there as well, turning many people away from our doors. You may claim that you know what is pleasing and beneficial to Krsna, but that is mostly just an empty or unprovable claim. It is safer to judge things by the results. If you are dishonest 'for Krsna' most people will eventually figure that out and reject you as a fraud. Is Krsna pleased that His devotees cheat in His name? Is there any shastric basis for such a claim? If you pretend for example that you discovered an ancient Upanishad which in fact was simply written by you to bolster your preaching, you will eventually be exposed. That is cheating too. Short term benefit, long term loss. Sreyas and preyas.
  23. If you cant relay on what guru says as being true, what is the use of such a guru? Sudras can lie, vaishyas can lie, kshatrias can lie, but brahmanas can not tell lies. Satyam - truthfulness is a quality of a brahmana.
  24. Yes, even Maharaja Yudhisthira had to pay for his lie, what to speak of us, common people? Our movement has paid a dear price for the lies we used to further our causes. The end does not justify the means. If the end is to be pure, the means must be pure as well.
  25. very good post, mahak prabhu... Eskimos used to thank animals they killed for sacrificing themselves to sustain their clan, inviting their spirits to take birth among their tribe. Reincarnation was a fact of life for them, and when a new child was born they were looking for clues as to which departed member of the tribe took birth again among them. Memory of past lives was common among eskimo children, and while they sometimes were born as animals, it was not because they ate meat, but because they aspired to lead a life of such creatures. The ignorance and arrogance of many Hare Krsnas is often very painful to see but Krsna is definitely teaching us all a lesson. The surplus of blubber on many of our 'sannyasi' members is not the worst thing that happened to our movement. You can look at this forum and see it first hand: Scores of voices questioning the bogus interpretations of shastra by so many of our members. People are not stupid and especially people who know shastra can not be fooled easily by pompous pretenders. Our movement has very little credibility in the outside world. If you add to this all the inside tensions and controversies, we will be lucky if our movement survives the next 50 years.
×
×
  • Create New...