chandu_69

Bhagavadgita 10:23 Of all the Rudras I am Lord Siva; of the Yaksas and Raksasas I am the Lord of wealth [Kuvera]; of the Vasus I am fire [Agni], and of mountains I am Meru.

So people, stop crying that prabhupada was implying lord siva is demigod.

Krishna himself said he is SIVA.(As per prabhupada translation).

Thanks smiley for bringing that up.

OK...let us explore that line of thought a little bit.

 

Does Krishna know today, which shirt I will wear tomorrow? If yes, then I do not have freewill. If no, then he does not know the future which contradicts the Gita verse.

 

Cheers

Here is my two cents on this:

Krishna(god) doesnt know what shirt i am goining to wear tomorrow.If he knew it means he has FIXED it.Why god fix such an inconsequential thing?

God knows about something when he makes it happen

And i think GOD doesnt bother about running the affairs of world on a day to day basis.

An excellent discussion here indiadivine.org/audarya/spiritual-discussions/445621-kalki-avatar-2.html.

People should search the forums before opeing threads to avoid repeat posts.

Amlesh,

Egoism is not a bad thing in itself.But your problem is stupidity and shallowness; and your own stupidity hurts your ego.

Let me illustrate your stupidity in this thread.

It's a lovely thread.

I don't think there is anything to hide about.

The biased Iskconite as well as you will get to know something about the Gita.

Iskconite have every right to be biased and if u want to show that they are wrong, use logic and scriptures and

not a missionary article which says gita is copied from bible.

BTW what is lovely about a missionary thoughts that gita was copied from bible?.

The Gita is still not known and it is an all time mystery.

Whatever publicity you see by the Iskonite about the Gitam is just fleeting knowledge. Sorry friends, there is nothing wrong in speaking the Truth.

If ur shallow and stupid mind thinks Gita is not known what business u have writing here? except To show ur stupidity.

That Arj is the complex stuff of the Gita. i've understood that you are much better than the Iskonite but still Room for improvement.

Really? ARJ who endorses this article that gita is not the spoken word of God is better than Iskonite?.

Amlesh, just reread what u wrote and u will know what is ur problem.

. But his claims that animal fat is unhealthy is crap. Scientific research has proven that animal fat has no effect on cholestrol and that it is actually healthy. .

Animal fat is not healthy especially when derived from sedentary animals.

nal.usda.gov/fnic/dga/dga95/lowfat.html

Where's the solid evidence? The problem with this evidence is that psychology often comes into play, where a child might have heard about another family in some form and they subconsciously integrated that with their own life or something to that effect. There are many other possible interpretations too.

 

However, you are right, it seems that scientists are unwilling to consider reincarnation as an explanation until all other explanations are ruled out. Unfortunately, that's very hard to do and would require extensive studies of which there is little support and funding, and many biases, on both scientific and religious ends.

Have a look at this youtube.com/watch?v=_EWwzFwUOxA

The child in this video apparently said things which he couldnot have heard.

This could be one of those many proofs provided the parents are not lying.

The lord may be laughing seeing all these .

all are one and the same paramathma.

vishnu and siva are one and the same. it is clearly stated in bhagavtham sivapuranam,vedas,upanishads.

 

radhesyam

har har mahadev

Thanks; May be the egoistic people realise this truth and stop this nonsensical fighting.

Lord Shiva is the highest Vaishnava and he is a guna avatar of Lord Visnu. His position is unfathomable. I discourage this useless fighting and ask that people follow this process of bhakti very seriously. Thank you.

Well said

You cannot digest your own medecine.

Have you met Aarj before.. for you to guess he is a Christian and born muslim et al.

I backed up what i say regarding arj.He is a christian posing as a hindu.

Do u have any evidence for your wild personal allegations against me?

Each time you've spoken on this thread.

Pay me. I'll count it for you.

Just show one evidence for your wild fanciful allegations.

Never, ask you'll get the answer.

I asked you for the answer it seems you are avoiding it

I was waiting for a better and more interesting course for this thread.

Is that the basis for your wild allegations rofl

yes I've read..

But I don't expect either any Tom, dick and Aarj knowing Krishna so easily.

But his questions are quite nice.

ARJ spent about 2 years on this forum and he says ( indiadivine.org/audarya/spiritual-discussions/449697-marriages-gods-2.html)

ARJ]

BG 7:23

Now would a down-to-earth person say only by worshipping Me a devotee can reach My supreme planet & not by worshipping demigods ? isn't this egoistic ?

What happens to people who don't believe in Krishna ? Is it Krishna doesn't love the non-beleivers (kafirs) ?

Amlesh the point here is why a hindu who is on board at this forum for 2 years make such stupid posts...

BTW have a look at your posts on page-1 about me

and I do understand your plight Chandu and I guess you are not wrong.

I've seen many Christians acting weirdly when knowing Krishna being our Lord.

But that does not mean we should adopt the same attitude, right?

What makes you change your opinion so drastically?

so this is what is called the total and worst kind of bulshit I have read.....

Bhawad Gita copied from the Bible .........

 

Will some one let me know what the bible says about how to communicate with god??

U need not be surprised.That is the way a missionary mind works.

For example missionaries say Brahma(prajapathi) mentioned in vedas is actually jesus.

Jesus promises in bible that the people of the place who dont want to listen to his gospels will be punished with fire and brimstone at the day of judgement.

Matthew

10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

.

Jesus referring to Sodom and Gomorrha in OLD TESTAMENT

(GENESIS 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;)

that is the doctrine of christianity.The christian god cannot tolerate not worshipping him or his son jesus.

Alright buddy.

I've noticed that you love the guessing stuff a LOT.

Have we met before??

But all the time you are wrong.

How many times?

If you see the sea, you'll say, "I assume it might be a river."

It's sickening.

How does it make you sick?

BTW did u read the posts of arj in this page?

After reading this article the 'Hare Christians' must've realised the mistake they made by now

Hinduism is not based on Bhagavat Gita.

Mimamsa states "any genuine Hindu religious text needs to be compatible with the Srutis (Veda)."

 

where's Krishna mentioned in Vedas ???????

indiadivine.org/audarya/hinduism/23319-does-vedas-approves-krishna-supreme-god.htm

idaM viSNurvi cakrame tredhA ni dadhe padam

samULhamasya pAMsure || RV 1.22.17 ||

trINi . vi cakrame viSNurgopA adAbhyaH

ato dharmANi dhArayan || RV 1.22.18 ||

As you can see, these mantras name Vishnu as the preserver of the world, and indicate that He traversed the whole world, which is collected as the dust in His footprints. All attributes of a Supreme Deity, wouldn't you say?

tad viSNoH paramaM padaM sadA pashyanti sUrayaH

divIva cakSurAtatam || RV 1.22.20 ||

This states that the seers see always that "Supreme Abode" of Vishnu. Hmmm, "supreme abode..." does that, like, mean He's God or something?

tad viprAso vipanyavo jAgRvAMsaH samindhate

viSNoryat paramaM padam || RV 1.22.21 ||

And yet another reference to the "Supreme Abode" of Vishnu. Is it me, or do you see a trend here?

Now here is a reference to Vishnu as the creator of the three worlds:

viSNornu kaM vIryANi pra vocaM yaH pArthivAni vimamerajAMsi

yo askabhAyaduttaraM sadhasthaM vicakramANastredhorugAyaH || RV 1.154.1 ||

Hmmm, so not only is He the preserver, but also the creator? All functions of a supreme Deity, wouldn't you say?

pra tad viSNu stavate vIryeNa mRgo na bhImaH kucaro giriSThAH

yasyoruSu triSu vikramaNeSvadhikSiyanti bhuvanAni vishvA || RV 1.152.2 ||

Now this says that the three worlds abide in Vishnu's three paces. So, again, we have an explicit reference describing Lord Vishnu as the maintainer of the three worlds. That hardly sounds like the function of an administrative devata. Or maybe you think such a position can be applied for?

pra viSNave shUSametu manma girikSita urugAyAya vRSNe

ya idaM dIrghaM prayataM sadhasthameko vimame tribhirit padebhiH || RV 1.154.3 ||

And another reference to Vishnu, "who alone made, by three steps, these three worlds." Gee... He did that all by Himself with three steps? Does that make Him, OMNIPOTENT or something? And what is one of the qualities of a Supreme God?

yasya trii puurNaa madhunaa padaanyakShiiyamaaNaa svadhayaa madanti ya u tridhaatu pR^ithiviim uta dyaam eko daadhaara bhuvanaani vishvaa || RV 1.154.4 ||

And yet again, Vishnu as the maintainer of the three worlds. Hey, Atlas only held up one world. Vishnu holds up all three!

tA vaM vAstUnyushmasi gamadhyai yatra gAvo bhUrishRN^gAayAsaH

atrAha tadurugAyasya vRSNaH paramaM padamava bhAti bhUri || RV 1.154.6 ||

And yet again, the "Supreme station" of Vishnu. Hey, who does this Vishnu guy think He is living in that Supreme Station? Oh wait, He's the Supreme God. That's right.

Yeah, those dumb Vaishnavites. Maybe they should read the following shruti:

agnirvai devAnamavamo viShNuH paramaH || aitareya brAhmaNa 1.1.1 ||

Oh wait, that says that among devatas, Agni is "lowest" and Vishnu is "highest." So, that supports what the Vaishnavas say! Oh, well never mind. We don't agree with that, so let's ignore it!

Those poor, dumb Vaishnavites, they should have read the following shruti mantra:

aniravamo devatAnAM viShNuH paramaH || taittirIya saMhitA 5.5.1 ||

Err, wait a minute! That's also saying the same thing, that Vishnu is the highest devata!

I'm sorry, poor dear!

asya devasya mILhuSo vayA viSNoreSasya prabhRthe havirbhiH

vide hi rudro rudriyaM mahitvaM yAsiSTaM vartirashvinAvirAvat || RV 7.40.5 ||

This makes it abundantly clear that Rudra derives his power from worship of Vishnu!

The person arj claiming to be hindu and being a member of this forum from december 2006 didnt read those excellent posts and pose silly questions is surprising....

Mimamsa states "any genuine Hindu religious text needs to be compatible with the Srutis (Veda)."

 

where's Krishna mentioned in Vedas ???????

indiadivine.org/audarya/hinduism/23145-lord-vishnu-supreme-also-worship-lord-brahma.html

quote from the above link

Quote:

<table width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> The Vedas say little about Lord Vishnu, which is surprising if he is supposed to be the supreme God.

</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->

It is time for ignoramus idiots like you to stop posting irritating posts like this. Read below.

idaM viSNurvi cakrame tredhA ni dadhe padam

samULhamasya pAMsure || RV 1.22.17 ||

trINi . vi cakrame viSNurgopA adAbhyaH

ato dharmANi dhArayan || RV 1.22.18 ||

tad viSNoH paramaM padaM sadA pashyanti sUrayaH

divIva cakSurAtatam || RV 1.22.20 ||

tad viprAso vipanyavo jAgRvAMsaH samindhate

viSNoryat paramaM padam || RV 1.22.21 ||

viSNornu kaM vIryANi pra vocaM yaH pArthivAni vimamerajAMsi

yo askabhAyaduttaraM sadhasthaM vicakramANastredhorugAyaH || RV 1.154.1 ||

pra tad viSNu stavate vIryeNa mRgo na bhImaH kucaro giriSThAH

yasyoruSu triSu vikramaNeSvadhikSiyanti bhuvanAni vishvA || RV 1.152.2 ||

pra viSNave shUSametu manma girikSita urugAyAya vRSNe

ya idaM dIrghaM prayataM sadhasthameko vimame tribhirit padebhiH || RV 1.154.3 ||

yasya trii puurNaa madhunaa padaanyakShiiyamaaNaa svadhayaa madanti ya u tridhaatu pR^ithiviim uta dyaam eko daadhaara bhuvanaani vishvaa || RV 1.154.4 ||

tA vaM vAstUnyushmasi gamadhyai yatra gAvo bhUrishRN^gAayAsaH

atrAha tadurugAyasya vRSNaH paramaM padamava bhAti bhUri || RV 1.154.6 ||

agnirvai devAnamavamo viShNuH paramaH || aitareya brAhmaNa 1.1.1 ||

aniravamo devatAnAM viShNuH paramaH || taittirIya saMhitA 5.5.1 ||

asya devasya mILhuSo vayA viSNoreSasya prabhRthe havirbhiH

vide hi rudro rudriyaM mahitvaM yAsiSTaM vartirashvinAvirAvat || RV 7.40.5 |

 

The above article was meant for the 'Hare Krishnas' & 'Hare Christians' & 'Hare Muslims' (if there are any). After reading this article the 'Hare Christians' must've realised the mistake they made by now.

.

Ohh i see; So u want to SAVE the christians :rolleyes:.

U havent yet answered the question.Is jesus your savior.Not that i have any objection.But be honest.

What is this "Sindhuisim/ or as the Mogul Invaders called Hindusim" based on according to your "expert" knowledge?

"Either Gandhi was wrong or Bhagavat Gita is."[/unquote]

 

Some spiritual discussion there :confused:

and I do understand your plight Chandu and I guess you are not wrong.

I've seen many Christians acting weirdly when knowing Krishna being our Lord.

But that does not mean we should adopt the same attitude, right?

Plight? nope.I am trying to put things in perspective..

No need to adopt the kind of attitude displayed by missionaries.But i do call bluff when i see one..

Well thanks for your advice Chandu.

 

But I don't how you've come with such a terrific conclusion. What Algorithm you've written to come to such a conclusion?

Don't you think after being born Muslim and before converting to Christianity, he should have been married to a Buddhist Wife.

 

Anyways, it sounds universal.

I said, i gathered ,not concluded

No need of algorihms; i spent time discussing religion with christians and muslims, so i know how things works.

The reason i suspect that he was a muslim is his vocabulary(kaafir).

Have u heard a hindu talking abt kaafirs in a matter of pure hindu spirituality??

i know lot of christians criticize krishna for killing kamsa and sisupala..

and add it to his article from christian sources..u know what he is batting for...

it sounds universal.

How do u know amlesh? have u read all of them.Sorry, if i am blunt.

Amlesh ,

ARJ is not attacking iskonites or vaishnavaites; he is attacking hinduism.What i can gather from his posts is He is a born muslim converted to christianity.His posts concentrating on killing of shisupala and kouravas makes it clear that his next agenda is to show jesus is superior to krishna.

ARJ come out of your closet and tell us; do u think jesus is all about love????.

Do you think jesus is unconditional in his love?

Be honest.

So now the Vaishnavites would judge who's a hindu & who's not.

 

My religious orientation has nothing to do with this article, still as a Hindu I'm free to question Hindu scriptures, beliefs etc.

I am not a vaishnavite .U can easily deduce that fact from my earlier posts(they are few, btw)

Plss be honest; tell us, are u a born muslim?

Hindus never use islamic words like kaafir,PBUH etc

Amleshji, I always wondered how could Gandhi acquiesce in the killing of Ravana by Ram & Krishna provoking Arjuna to kill his own brothers.

 

As per Gandhi's thinking both Ram & Krishna should be 'Himsak'.

Gandhiji must have learnt his lesson when his concept of AHIMSA failed miserably in stopping the genocide by muslims during partition of india.

He also must have realised that the only way to fight evil is with might and not with ahimsa.

"Kshatriya’s duty to kill is to say the least puerile"

ROFL, who said their duty is to kill?????.

I havent seen such a foolish comment till now.

ARJ, tell me are u a closet muslim?.I can gather this from your previous posts referring to kaafirs and pbuh kind of words.

This thread is hijacked by commercial people.. :mad:

As explained by Ravindran faith in god is all that is needed. Just pray to your ishta deva.

Not exactly Hell, but those who don't worship Krishna are not entitled for Moksha.

 

Bhagavad Gita Chapter 9 verse 24:

 

As all the demigods verily comprise the transcendental body of the Supreme Lord Krishna then it is natural that He is the enjoyer of everything offered to them being the sole lord of all worship and propitiation and the ultimate bestower of all rewards. The worshippers of the demigods are ignorant of these facts and hence they are na tu mam abhijanam meaning unable to know Him the Supreme Lord thus they fall back into mortal existence and are subject to birth, old age, disease and death. But those who recognise the Supreme Lord as the inner ruler within all the demigods and worship Him do not return to mortal existence.

unable to know Him the Supreme Lord...That is the key phrase.The worshippers of the demigods worship for the sake of material benefits here and hereafter and so they are granted their wishes accordingly.

So if I worship Shiva, I'm an ignorant fool who's wasting a human birth worshipping demigod & hence i'm not entitled for Moksha.

U will be a fool if u worship Shiva as a granter of ur wishes.But if u worship Shiva with a view to be with Supreme Lord then u will reach the god.Name is not important it is the intent behind the worship.

BG 9.22: But those who always worship Me with exclusive devotion, meditating on My transcendental form — to them I carry what they lack, and I preserve what they have.

BG 9.23: Those who are devotees of other gods and who worship them with faith actually worship only Me, O son of Kuntī, but they do so in a wrong way.

BG 9.24: I am the only enjoyer and master of all sacrifices. Therefore, those who do not recognize My true transcendental nature fall down.

Another key phrase here is "Recognising the transcendental nature".

Worshipping for the sake of grants is explained as "seeking the heavenly planets" in 9:20 below.

BG 9.20: Those who study the Vedas and drink the soma juice, seeking the heavenly planets, worship Me indirectly. Purified of sinful reactions, they take birth on the pious, heavenly planet of Indra, where they enjoy godly delights.

BG 9.21: When they have thus enjoyed vast heavenly sense pleasure and the results of their pious activities are exhausted, they return to this mortal planet again. Thus those who seek sense enjoyment by adhering to the principles of the three Vedas achieve only repeated birth and death.

Again no punishment really . You get what u pray for .

Ufff , seriously this is confusing . I give up. I have tried my very best to seperate these Gods in my head but I cannot. Refering to them as demi-Gods is also very demeaning. Yes I cringe too everytime I hear it. For one thing, my family are not Vaishnavas. They worship one God, not for any material benefit. My favourite God is Krishna, but the problem arises when I have to accept that my family are foolish and stupid for worshiping another God. I cannot think of them like that. For me, this is like trying to take joy from a faith which tells me that my good parents are going to hell for worshipping the wrong "God". Where is the spirtuality/peace in this? I am no better than my parents, and I do not want to end up with an ego over my head saying I am superior and more clever than my parents for worshipping right God over "demi-God". And to be honest, I have noticed some people with such ego over their head. Sorry about the rant there but this is seriously very confusing.

Where did it say that people go to hell for worshipping other than krishna?