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paarsurrey

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Posts posted by paarsurrey


  1. Paarsurrey says:

     

    It is a common misconception that the personage to come at end of times would restore the lost honour of those religions by going on a killing spree. The DivingGuides sent by GodAllahParmasherYHWh only to establish peace.It is the war-mongers who misinterpret it otherwise.

    Mistake of Judaism:

    They thought that Moshiach would come and fight with the enemies of Judaism to return them the lost rule of Davids and Solomon. Moshiach did come in the form of JesusChrist; the Jews did not accept him. Jesus pleaded so much but they opposed him tooth and nail; they said they would accept a DivineGuide of their Mullah’s (Ribbi’s) liking.

    Mistake of Muslims:

    Muslims still belive that they would believe in IssaMessiah who will kill their opponents with sword and this way establish their rule in the world.The PromisedMessiah/ImamMahdi has come but they have not accepted him. They have done as did the Jews; and this a prephcy of Muahammad.

    The KalkiAvatar or <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on">Krishnas</st1:place>’ Seond Coming says:

    Let it be known that most Muslims and Christians believe that Jesus (on whom be peace) went alive to the heavens; both these people have believed for a long time that Jesus (on whom be peace) is still alive in the heavens, and will sometime in the latter days come down to the earth.

     

    The difference in their views, i.e. the view of the followers of Islam and that of the Christians, is only this, that the Christians believe that Jesus (on whom be peace) died on the Cross, was resurrected, and went to the heavens in his earthly body, seated himself on the right hand of his Father, and will come to the earth in the latter days for judgment; they also say that the Creator and the Master of the world is this Jesus the Messiah and no one else; he it is who, in the latter days of the world, will descend to the earth with a glorious descent to award punishment and reward; then, all who will not believe in him or his mother as God, will be hauled up and thrown into hell, where weeping and wailing will be their lot.

    But the aforesaid sects of Muslims say that Jesus (on whom be peace) was not crucified, nor did he die on the Cross; on the other hand, when the Jews arrested him in order to crucify him an angel of God took him away to the heavens in his earthly body, and he is still alive in the heavens - which, they say, is the second heaven where is also the prophet Yahya, i.e. John.

     

    Muslims, moreover, also say that Jesus (on whom be peace) is an eminent prophet of God, but not God, nor the son of God, and, they believe that he will in the latter days descend to the earth, near the Minaret of Damascus or near some other place, supported on the shoulders of two angels, and that he and Imam Muhammad, the Mahdi, who will be already in the world, and who will be a Fatimite, will kill all the non-Muslims, not leaving anyone alive except those who will forthwith and without any delay become Muslims.

     

    In short, the real object of the descent of Jesus (on whom be peace) to the earth, as stated by Muslim sects known as Ahl-i-Sunnat or Ahl-i-Hadith called Wahabis by the common people - is that, like the Mahadev of the Hindus, he should destroy the whole world; that he should first threaten the people to become Muslims and then, if they persist in disbelief, massacre them all with the sword; they moreover say that he is alive in the heavens in his earthly body, so that, when Muslim powers become weak, he will come down and kill the non-Muslims or coerce them on pain of death to become Muslims.

     

    Regarding the Christians especially, the divines of the aforesaid sects state that when Jesus (on whom be peace) comes down from the heavens he will break all the Crosses in the world, do many a cruel deed with the sword, and inundate the world with blood. And, just as I have stated, these people, i.e. the Ahl-i-Hadith etc. from among the Muslims, are enthusiastic about their belief that a short time before the coming down of the Messiah there will appear an Imam from the Bani Fatima whose name will be Muhammad, the Mahdi.

    He it is who will be Khalifa and King of the time, and as he will belong to the Koraish, his real object will be to kill all non-Muslims except those who readily recite the Kalima. Jesus (on whom be peace) will come down in order to help him in his work; and although Jesus himself (on whom be peace) will be a Mahdi - nay, a greater Mahdi - yet, because it is essential that the Khalifa of the time should be a Koraish, Jesus (on whom be peace) will not be the Khalifa of the time; the Khalifa of the time will be that same Muhammad, the Mahdi.

    Muslims say that these two together will fill the earth with the blood of man, and they will shed more blood than has ever been shed before in the history of the world.

    No sooner will they appear than they will start this bloody campaign; they will neither preach nor plead, nor show any sign. And they also say that although Jesus (on whom be peace) will be like an adviser or a lieutenant of Imam Muhammad, the Mahdi, and although the reins of power will be in the hands of the Mahdi only, Jesus (on whom be peace) will instigate Hazrat Imam Muhammad, the Mahdi, to massacre the whole world and will advise him to adopt extreme measures, i.e. he will make amends for the humane teaching which he had given to the world before, namely, 'not to resist evil,' and, being struck on one cheek, 'to turn the other cheek also.'

    http://www.alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/intro.html

     


  2. Paarsurrey says:

     

    By peeling off the outer mythical shell of different denominations of the Revealed Relgions of the world; one gets the real faith brought by <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>, Buddha, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad; which is the same for every human being.

     

    If one is suffering physically for a disease; one gets the same treatment irrespective of which country one lives in. The Moral and Spiritual diseases; the sinful acts, in my opinion, must have logically the same ultimate treatment wherever one lives.

     

    Christ/Krishna Second Coming says:

     

    Epilogue: What is True Salvation?

    Before concluding this book (i.e. Fountain of Christianity),

    I feel that I should write

    something about the nature of true salvation, because salvation

    is the ultimate objective which followers of every

    religion hope to attain.

    But, unfortunately, most people

    remain unaware and unmindful of the true meaning of

    salvation. To the Christians, salvation means deliverance

    from the accountability of sin, but this cannot be its true

    meaning, for it is quite possible that a person may not be

    guilty of committing fornication, nor of theft, nor of bearing

    false witness, nor of murder, nor of committing any

    other sin which he knows of, and yet he might be deprived

    of the benefits of salvation.

    Salvation, in fact, is the

    abiding peace and happiness which man, by his very nature,

    hungers and thirsts for, and which is achieved

    through personal love and recognition of God, and

    through a perfect relationship with Him—a relationship in

    which the fire of love is ablaze on both sides.

    But people very often try to attain this happiness through

    other means which only serve to increase their pain and

    misery in the long run. Most people tend to seek eternal

    happiness in the carnal pleasures of the world. They indulge

    day and night in drinking and fulfilling their sensual

    desires, and end up suffering from all kinds of fatal diseases.

    They succumb to trauma, paralysis, Parkinson’s

    Fountain of Christianity

    34

    disease, kuzzaz,20 intestinal ulcer, ulcer of the liver, or

    they die as a consequence of shameful diseases such as

    syphilis and gonorrhoea.

    Since their energies have been

    prematurely sapped, they fail to complete their natural

    lifespan, and it ultimately dawns upon them that things

    which they thought would bring them joy and contentment

    had, in fact, brought about their ruin.

    Some others

    think that happiness lies in worldly prestige, rank and office;

    they, too, remain unaware of the real object of their

    life and die with regret. Then there are those who keep

    accumulating wealth in the hope that it will bring them

    true happiness. But ultimately they also have to leave behind

    all their accumulated wealth, and have to drink the

    cup of death in great regret and sorrow.

     

    http://www.alislam.org/library/books/Fountain-of-Christianity-20080505MN.pdf


  3. Origin of the soul

    Paarsurrey says:

    I understand from Christ/Krishna Second Coming 1835-1908, that soul is created by GodAllahParmesherYHWH. If the souls are not created by Him, Mukti to humans under the present Hindu cocepts; one just cannot attain it naturally, rationally and ogically. Human wise men; I respect them all- the whole lot of them of whatever hues and colours; but they cannot match the Wisdom of the ONE-Creator of Heavens and Earth; neither have they claimed it, in my opinion.

    I am convinced by Christ/Krishna Second Coming 1835-1908 in this connection; but others are free to convince me otherwise, if they could surpass him.

    Christ/Krishna Second Coming 1835-1908 says:

    But if particles and souls are not related to God as His creation, there will be no justification for such a relationship either.

    There is no doubt that for such 'independent' souls, the existence of Parmeshwar is of no use, nor will they have anything to lose by His non-existence. In this situation, salvation—which the Arya Samaj refer to as mukti—becomes impossible to attain, for it wholly depends upon the personal love for God which He has created in the very nature of the souls.

    If souls have not been created by Parmeshwar, how can they love Him by their very nature? And Parmeshwar could not have placed His love in their nature afterwards, because natural love is something that has to be eternally inherent in them and not something that was created later on. This is what God refers to in the Holy Quran when He says: i.e., I asked the souls, "Am I not your Creator?" And the souls replied, "Yes, indeed."(Quran: Al- A‘RAF, 7:17) The meaning of this verse is that the soul contains in its very nature the testimony that God is its Creator.

    The soul, being God’s creation, loves Him naturally and instinctively.

    Fountain of Christianity http://www.alislam.org/library/books/Fountain-of-Christianity-20080505MN.pdf


  4. Paarsurrey says:

    Sorry, I cannot understand the discussion fully as the terminology used in the posts is in Sansikrit or Hindi and I don’t know these languages. I would request the opener of the discussion/thread at least, to kindly translate the terms for me so that I could also comprehend the discussion and benefi from it.

    As of now, please don’t mind, as I understand from Christ/Krishna Second Coming 1835-1908, Yes; the present understanding of the Hindus is incorrect and impossible. Mukti to humans under the present Hindu cocepts; one just cannot attain it naturally, rationally and ogically. GodAllahParmesherYHWH does not confirm it by His word of Revelation from His mouth; neither in the text for a claim, nor for the reason given by Him. Human wise men; I respect them all, but they cannot match the Wisdom of the ONE-Creator of Heavens and Earth; neither have they claimed it, in my opinion.

    I am convinced by Christ/Krishna Second Coming 1835-1908 in this connection; but others are free to convince me otherwise, if they could surpass him.

    Christ/Krishna Second Coming 1835-1908 says:

    But if particles and souls are not related to God as His creation, there will be no justification for such a relationship either.

    There is no doubt that for such 'independent' souls, the existence of Parmeshwar is of no use, nor will they have anything to lose by His non-existence. In this situation, salvation—which the Arya Samaj refer to as mukti—becomes impossible to attain, for it wholly depends upon the personal love for God which He has created in the very nature of the souls.

    If souls have not been created by Parmeshwar, how can they love Him by their very nature? And Parmeshwar could not have placed His love in their nature afterwards, because natural love is something that has to be eternally inherent in them and not something that was created later on. This is what God refers to in the Holy Quran when He says: i.e., I asked the souls, "Am I not your Creator?" And the souls replied, "Yes, indeed."(Quran: Al- A‘RAF, 7:17) The meaning of this verse is that the soul contains in its very nature the testimony that God is its Creator.

    The soul, being God’s creation, loves Him naturally and instinctively.

    Fountain of Christianity http://www.alislam.org/library/books/Fountain-of-Christianity-20080505MN.pdf

     

    Thanks


  5. Hindu understanding: When the Bible speaks of Jesus, "died" it simply means something resembling death.

     

    Paarsurrey says:

    There is an interesting dialogue between the Hindus and Christians on the above issue; I copy/paste it here for the benefit of the members of this forum. The Hindu side of the participants, in my opinion, is far superior in understanding in the issue than the Christians. I appreciate such respectful and peaceful dialogue between members of the international comity of nations.

    http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/showthread.php?p=1116657#post1116657 dated 07-13-2003

    Here is an exchange that occurred in Paris, on June 15, 1974, between His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and two priests and two Christian scholars.

     

    Madame Siaude:

     

    Yes, Your Divine Grace, of course. As you say, since Lord Jesus is the son of God, his body is spiritual. But because Jesus wanted to take part in the life of the human beings on earth, we think he actually accepted a material body.

    Srila Prabhupada:

     

    Why do you speculate that Jesus accepted a material body?

     

    Madame Siaude:

     

    We have prayers that say Jesus underwent suffering and he underwent death.

     

    Srila Prabhupada:

     

    But his so-called death: in your mind you think, you speculate, that he died. But he immediately resurrected.

     

    Madame Siaude:

     

    But the Gospel says that he died.

     

    Srila Prabhupada:

     

    That's all right.

     

    Madame Siaude:

     

    Just as you accept--totally--the word as found in the Vedas, so we accept--totally--the word as found in the Bible.

     

    Srila Prabhupada:

     

    No, no. When the Bible speaks of Jesus, "died" simply means something resembling death. Janma karma ca me divyam: in Bhagavad-gita, Lord Krishna explains that the birth, activities, and disappearance of Himself and His pure devotees are all transcendental. Just take, for example, Christ's "birth" from the womb of Mary. It may appear like an ordinary material birth, but actually, it is not. It is something resembling birth, but in reality, it is transcendental.

     

    Madame Siaude:

     

    No. It is very important that we understand death of Christ to be a real death. The central point of our faith and our philosophy is that Lord Jesus actually died.

     

    Srila Prabhupada:

     

    No. The Vedic literature explains that even an ordinary living being--he does not die. Na hanyate hanyamane sarire. Do you understand Sanskrit?

     

    Madame Siaude:

     

    Not by hearing it. I have to read it.

     

    Srila Prabhupada:

     

    Na hanyate: "the soul is never killed." And hanyamane sarire: "even when the body dies, the soul is never dead."

     

    Father Canivez:

     

    Your Divine Grace, in order for there to be dialogue, we have to respect one another's positions--not that we will try to convert the others. Just as we respect your absolute faith in the Vedic philosophy, so also, there must be respect about our Christian interpretation of the life of Lord Jesus and his death.

     

    Srila Prabhupada:

     

    Oh, I have more respect for Jesus Christ than you. I say, "Jesus does not die." You say, "Jesus dies." As far as respect is concerned, I have more respect than you. You want to see Jesus Christ dead. I don't want to see him dead.

     

    Madame Siaude:

    Jesus dies, but after, there is his resurrection.

     

    Srila Prabhupada:

     

    No death. Recently, there was an archaeological excavation that demonstrated that Jesus Christ did not die. After the crucifixion, he was taken to <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com><st1:City w:st=<st1:place w:st=" /><st1:place w:st="on">Kashmir</st1:place>.

     

    Madame Siaude:

     

    Well, we are not so much inclined to discuss such historical matters. We are more inclined to speak of mystical-

     

    Srila Prabhupada:

     

    I was very much pleased to hear this information, because I had been very sorry that Jesus Christ was crucified. So when I learned of this scientific discovery, I was very satisfied.

     

    Father Canivez:

     

    Your Divine Grace, I was at your conference last night, and I heard you declare that human life is meant for knowing God. So, what is your process for coming to know God?

     

    Srila Prabhupada:

     

    That is very simple. It is not at all difficult. Just take, for example, your body: you, the soul, are the important, active principle. Similarly, this gigantic cosmic manifestation must have some active principle. That is God. So where is the difficulty in understanding God?

     

    Father Canivez:

     

    For example, in your prayers, how do you ...

     

    Srila Prabhupada:

     

    Now, first of all, let us understand what God is. Then prayer. If you do not understand God, then what will you understand about prayer? If you understand that there is the active principle, then you can understand the prayer that we have already cited from the beginning of Srimad-Bhagavatam: janmady asya yato 'nvayad itaratas carthesv abhijnah svarat--"I pray to the Supreme Personality of Godhead Vasudeva, who is the origin of all creation." This is the active principle. So the process is that I offer all my respect to the Absolute Truth, the Supreme Truth--from whom the creation has taken place, in whom everything is resting and working nicely, and to whom, after annihilation, everything will return.

     

    And when you study what are the nature and activities of the original source, the Vedic literature further informs you, abhijnah: He is all-cognizant; He knows everything. For instance, although I--the soul within this body--am cognizant of this body, still, I do not know how the body is working. I am eating, but I do not know how my eatables transform into secretion and then go to the heart, and so forth. Of course, the so-called scientists have understood somewhat, but not fully. So I do not know what is going on within my body. I do not know how many hairs are there. But God knows everything. Every nook and corner of the whole universe.

     

    So we cannot compare ourselves with God. That is impossible. But still, since we are forced to get knowledge from others, we may naturally question, "From whom has God gotten His knowledge?" Therefore, the Vedic literature also declares, svarat: "God hasn't got to take knowledge from anyone else--He's independently full of knowledge."

     

    In addition, God imparted knowledge to Brahma, the first created being in this universe. That knowledge is called Vedic knowledge. In other words, Vedic knowledge is coming directly from God. Then it is being distributed through Brahma. And God is so mysterious that even learned scholars become bewildered in their attempt to understand Him. And although this material world is a temporary phantasmagoria, it appears to be fact--on account of its being the energy of God.

     

    Madame Siaude:

     

    Your Divine Grace, as I recall from reading some of the Vedic literature, God is known as antaryami, "the witness within the heart." Does this mean that we can have a direct experience of God, in addition to what we experience in the scriptures?

     

    Srila Prabhupada:

     

    Yes. That direct experience of God is the practice of yoga.

     

    Madame Siaude:

     

    I guess if you strive for prapati, or surrender, ...

     

    Srila Prabhupada:

     

    Yes.

     

    Madame Siaude:

     

    ... this is a way to God directly.

     

    Srila Prabhupada:

     

    Yes. That is the real process.

     

    Madame Siaude:

     

    But is surrender different from yoga?

     

    Srila Prabhupada:

     

    No. Surrender is bhakti-yoga. Bhakti, devotion to God.

     

    Madame Siaude:

     

    But I was thinking surrender is something different than bhakti.

     

    Srila Prabhupada:

     

    Surrender is bhakti-yoga.

     

    Madame Siaude:

     

    You take surrender to be bhakti?

     

    Srila Prabhupada:

     

    Bhakti, devotion, yes. Surrender means devotion. For instance, I can surrender unto you only when I have got full faith and devotion unto you. Otherwise, I cannot. So bhakti-yoga is wanted. If we simply devote ourselves to God, then everything is complete.

     

    Therefore, in Bhagavad-gita Lord Krishna describes prapati, or surrender. Bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate-this word prapadyate: "After many, many lifetimes of endeav-oring to understand God through mental speculation, when one is actually wise, he surrenders unto Me."

     

    And in the next line, Krishna says, vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma sudurlabhah: "When one understands that Vasudeva or <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> is everything, then his knowledge is perfect. But such a mahatma--such a great soul--is very rare to be seen."

     

    Paarsurrey says:

     

    It is an important religious/spiritual issues for the Hindus to understand reality of, Jesus birth/death; where it occurred and when/how it took place.

     

    Jesus is mentioned in Vedic literatures according to some Hindu sources about three thousand years before his birth, which highlights its importance from the Hinduism point of view also.

     

    Christianity is spreading in differing parts of <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">India</st1:place></st1:country-region>, and Jesus death on Cross is the backbone of the present day Christianity founded by Paul. If this backbone is metaphorically broken with clarity of thinking; then that would end their spreading there on truthful basis.

     

    Hindus need not kill Christians, which would be bad on their part and inhuman; they should rather kill the Theological Philosophy of Paul to save humanity from Paul’s myth; and lo! there would be no Christians left!

     

    This would be the end of Paul, however, and not of Jesus.

     

    Jesus would shine and illuminate <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">India</st1:place></st1:country-region> and other parts of the world where his lovers reside. One such lover is the writer of these lines.

     

    I love Jesus and Mary as I do love <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> and Moses.

     

    Thanks

     

    P.S

     

    I would request the forum to allow me copy/past this dialogue on my blog, if possible, for more public good.


  6. Paarsurrey submits:

    14- The next from- Message of Peace- by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, the Promised Messiah/Krishna in Second Coming.

    Krishna in Second Coming 1835-1908 says:

    If today the same Hindus embrace the Muslims while pronouncing the kalimah Tayyibah: (i.e There is none worthy of worship except Allah; Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. ) then Muslims would cease to oppose them forthwith. Conversely, if Muslims renounce Islam and embrace Hinduism and start worshipping fire, air, etc., in accordance with the Vedic injunctions (The reference is to today’s distorted Vedic injunctions that have been modified over time by the followers.), then those differences which are labelled as political will suddenly vanish as if they had never existed.

    It is thus evident that the underlying factors in all enmities and grudges are the religious differences. It is such religious differences which, since times immemorial, reach a climax and then invariably give way to extensive bloodshed. O Muslims, I say: If Hindus treat you as a different nation merely because of religious differences and you respond to them in the same manner, the matter will not end here. How can you achieve a sound, healthy relationship unless you take appropriate remedial measures against this root cause? It is possible that you may temporarily enjoy a friendship, but only superficially.

    The ultimate sincerity of heart, worthy of being called sincerity, can only be achieved if you genuinely change your attitude towards the Vedas and the Vedic Rishis by accepting them to be from God. Likewise, the Hindus should also change their niggardly attitude by testifying to the truth of our beloved Holy Prophet (may peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). Remember, and remember it well, that this is the only principle which can establish a genuine truce

    between you and the Hindus and this is the only water which can wash away all malice embittering your relationship.

    If the hour has finally come when these two nations, who have for so long fallen apart, are destined to be reunited, then God will open up their hearts to this purpose as He has already opened up our hearts to the same. It is essential however that you treat Hindus with sincerity and kindness and let decent behaviour be your second nature.

     

    Thanks


  7. http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/hare-krishna-discussions/16545-jesus-death.html

     

     

     

    <HR align=center width="100%" color=white noShade SIZE=1>

     

    Parabrahman wrote in 2004:

     

    I've heard theory's of Jesus not dieing and moving to <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:country-region w:st="on">India</st1:country-region></st1:place> and if he did i have one question. How old was Jesus when he really died? Try to search it on google and if people can give educated guesses that would be good. I actually dont doubt the fact at all that he died.

    Thanks

    sumedh wrote in 2004:

    Hare Krishna and dandavat pranam

    Here are some more links

    http://www.geocities.com/priitaa/christ_and_krishna.htm

    http://www.geocities.com/priitaa108/...rishna_pt3.htm

    http://www.geocities.com/priitaa108/...rishna_pt2.htm

    and

    http://www.salagram.net/Jesus-Went-To-India.htm

     

    Paarsurrey says:

    Hi

    I infact sent an e-mail asking permission from salagram.net to allow me publish in my blog and also here on this site to copypaste the article already being displayed by them titled "Salivahana-an Indian ancient king meets Jesus the Messiah"http://www.salagram.net/Jesus-Went-To-India.htm2005 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International, on the web at http://www.krishna.com., jtcd@xtra.co.nz Jesus was mentioned in the Vedic literatures more than 3000+ years before he appeared.

    I have not yet received their reply/permission. I will copy/paste it here for the benefit of the public and members of this forum.

    I understand that the site belongs to harey krishna group. Would somebody use his good offices in this connection?

    The matter is already mentioned in "Jesus in <st1:country-region w:st="on">India</st1:country-region>" by Second Coming of <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> 1835-1908

     

     

    Thanks

    P.S

    When I wrote a post on Jesus not dieing on Cross; Similar Threads showed the title of this thread; which was lying idle since 2004, not knowing this I commented on it. Now I have copy/pasted it here for attention of the members.


  8. AmmasiswariWrote:

    http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/ammachi/222176-re-death-jesus-love-

    etc.html#post1116626 on 12-14-2005 in the Ammachi sub-forum

     

    Dear Ananthasree,

    Although I'm not a Christian, I'm married to a devoted Catholic and I'm sure he

    would

    disagree with this stereotype of Christianity being so focused on the death of

    Jesus' body

    (Mel Gibson's fixation with the blood and gore in his film aside!). He'd say the

    point of the

    crucifixion isn't the physical death, but that Jesus sacrificed himself out of

    supreme love.

    So, even though the whole crucifixion-redemption scenario doesn't resonate for

    me,

    personally, I can appreciate how others feel it as an ultimate act of Divine

    mercy.

    Blessings,

    Iswari

    Paarsurrey says:

    Hi

    I am sorry to say that Jesus dieing a cursed death on Cross for the imaginary sins of the Christians is only a mythical creed invented by Paul; not by Jesus himself. This is how the followers of religion corrupt his life account and its founder.

    Just think talking of love and then offering a deity so cruel to kill his only begotten son this way! Can there be anything more mythical than this.

    This way we learn as to how the message sent by ONE- on High, on His messengers is lost under debris of time. Here is a lesson to learn.

    This is what I firmly believe in faith-with-eyes; others could believe what they think is right. There is no compulsion in religion. I respect everybody's religion.

    Thanks

    P.S

    When I wrote a post on Jesus not dieing on Cross;Similar Threads showed the title of this thread; which was lying idle since 2005, not knowing this I commented on it. Now I have copy/pasted it here for attention of the members.


  9.  

    Correct. I see that you may not be of Hindu/Hindu-like descent so it might make things clearer if there is some explanation about "gods". "Gods" as Hindus call them is actually a misnomer. The way I understand it, so-called "gods" or "demigods" perform the same function as Christian/Islamic "Angels". In this case the original poster is (probably) not referring to GOD as you are talking about, but the denizens of heaven (entities that have great power and have had a birth of some shape and form and have been created by the One True God)

     

    Hi

     

    Thanks for your post.

     

    You are right, I don't have any Hindu background, neither one necessarily has to.

     

    I think only the physical life existing in couples has been endowed with giving birth to children- a sort of extension of life.

     

    The Angels are also only Spiritual beings- not existing physically; they don't give birth to children and hence need no spouses, they exist as long as ONE-On High wills them to be. They need not get married hence. I think there must be some metaphoric sense which they have misunderstood and taken it as physical , and hence their dilemma.

     

    In my opinion, it is being mythical and has no rational explanation. Kindly quote from the revealed scriptures for the claims and reasons in this connection.

     

    Thanks


  10.  

    Dear Ananthasree,

     

    Although I'm not a Christian, I'm married to a devoted Catholic and I'm sure he

    would

    disagree with this stereotype of Christianity being so focused on the death of

    Jesus' body

    (Mel Gibson's fixation with the blood and gore in his film aside!). He'd say the

    point of the

    crucifixion isn't the physical death, but that Jesus sacrificed himself out of

    supreme love.

     

    So, even though the whole crucifixion-redemption scenario doesn't resonate for

    me,

    personally, I can appreciate how others feel it as an ultimate act of Divine

    mercy.

     

    Blessings,

    Iswari

     

    Ammachi, "Ananthasree" <ANANTHASREE@M...>wrote:

     

    > Yet, many still cling to the death of Jesus body as if that were the most

    important part of

    > the journey. I was just reading about this in The Mystic Christ and it

    reminded me of the

    > parallel between this and things like the death penalty.

     

    Hi

     

    I am sorry to say that Jesus dieing a cursed death on Cross for the imaginary sins of the Christians is only a mythical creed invented by Paul; not by Jesus himself. This is how the followers of religion corrupt his life account and its founder.

     

    Just think talking of love and then offering a deity so cruel to kill his only begotten son this way! Can there be anything more mythical than this.

     

    This way we learn as to how the message sent by ONE- on High, on His messengers is lost under debris of time. Here is a lesson to learn.

     

    This is what I firmly believe in faith-with-eyes; others could believe what they think is right. There is no compulsion in religion. I respect everybody's religion.

     

    Thanks


  11.  

    I've heard theory's of Jesus not dieing and moving to India and if he did i have one question. How old was Jesus when he really died? Try to search it on google and if people can give educated guesses that would be good. I actually dont doubt the fact at all that he died. Thanks

     

    Hi

     

    According to some traditions Jesus died at the age of 120 or 125 years. The event of Crucifixion of Jesus happened when he was a young man of not more than 33 years. He died at an old age and lived most of his life in Kashmir and Tibet and the surrounding areas.

     

    You may view, if you like, access the following link :http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1581838/Why-the-BBC-thinks-Christ-did-not-die-this-way.html

     

    Thanks


  12.  

     

    Hi

     

    I infact sent an e-mail asking permission from salagram.net to allow me publish in my blog and also here on this site to copypaste the article already being displayed by them titled "Salivahana-an Indian ancient king meets Jesus the Messiah"http://www.salagram.net/Jesus-Went-To-India.htm2005 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International, on the web at http://www.krishna.com., jtcd@xtra.co.nz Jesus was mentioned in the Vedic literatures more than 3000+ years before he appeared.

     

     

    I have not yet received their reply/permission. I will copy/paste it here for the benefit of the public and members of this forum.

     

    I understand that the site belongs to harey krishna group. Would somebody use his good offices in this connection?

     

     

    The matter is already mentioned in "Jesus in India" by Second Coming of Krishna 1835-1908

     

     

    Thanks

     


  13. Hi

     

    It is not possible, in my opinion. Maybe it is only mythical or imaginary.

     

    God is one- the Creator of heaven and earth. He needs not to marry. He needs no wife, no father, no mother, brother or sisters. I think it is illogical in real terms.

     

    This is what I sincerely believe with rational and reasonable arguments; others could believe differently. There is no compulsion in religion whatsoever.

     

    Have a good day and enjoy your time. May God bless you!

     

    Thanks


  14.  

    "I join Rajan Zed in urging the makers of Ramayan 3392 A.D. to use care and respect when depicting a text held sacred by more than a billion Hindus. Jews, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists and Hindus all share a reverence for central texts. We must unite to ask for mutual respect of each others' texts."

     

     

    Hi

     

    Boycotting may not bring results with the Hollywood people.

     

    It would be more appropriate to defend the true faith with reasonable and rational arguments. It would be more useful and peaceful for those who are most often a sort of Atheists/Agnostics or non-believers.

     

    Thanks


  15.  

    Since long time, I have a doubt over the history of religions. I am quite aware that Hinduism dates back to long time than other religions.Then, I doubt if there are any other religions such as Islam , Christianity at the time of Ramayana or Mahabharata.What are the People of western countries during Ramayana? Are they Christians or Jews or Muslims?

     

    Hi

     

    I think it is only symbolic. By mother is meant source, perhaps. It cannot be that the mother is physically living in India; and giving birth to children in Europe, Arab, China, Australia and America.

     

    The times when man was eating a loaf of bread in India baked on tawa or in a tandury in ancient times; the people in other regions of the world were also provided with Bread or something equvalent of the same by ONE- the Creator of Heavens and Earth . If one provided them food and water- the physical food; why should he deny them the Moral and Spiritual food.

     

    The followers of Hinduism, Judaism, Zoraoastrianism, Christianity, Buddhism, Islam etc are are children of ONE in metaphoric sense if they follow His message and try to acquire His attributes and make themselves naturally peacful. No one needed to copy teachings from any other source when the doors of ONE are open for everybody and of course without a worldly price.

     

    This is plainly what I uderstand; I have no intention to injure feelings of anybody else here. Please forgive me if I have.

     

    Thanks


  16. Paarsurrey says:

    I have just now searched for Narsi Mehta into the internet- one of my Virtual Universtities, and found out something more there:

    http://www.nagar.org/narsi_mehta.html

     

    Narsi Mehta says:

    Vaishnava Jana to

     

    He is a Vaishnava who feels for the suffering of another

    And forgets the good he does to another, never taking pride in it.

    Who cares not for the praise and condemnation of the world nor himself indulges in it.

    He is not attached to women and wealth; such a one is praiseworthy and a jewel to his family.

    He is the same to all, is desireless and the women of others he considers like unto his mother.

    He never speaks falsehood nor has he his eye on another one's wealth.

    He is no slave of any passion or attachment, and the spirit of renunciation rules his mind.

    His heart is fixed on the Lord, whom he is restless to meet, really his body is indeed a pilgrim's garb.

    He is neither avaricious, nor vile nor a victim to wrath and desire.

    Says Narsi, verily he and his family shall cross the cycle of rebirth.

    (Source: Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan)

    Paarsurrey says:

    Thanks for introducing me to one of the jewels of humanity. Only GodAllahYHWH know best as to how many jewels lie buried under the earth; or consumed with fire or put to vultures. They all, in my opinion, are ascended to heavens with the grace and will of God. What they had to do with this world; they went where they truly belonged to! Praise be to ONE- the Creator of Heavens and Earth!

     

     

    Thanks


  17. Paarsurrey says:

     

    I respect your faith; one could have any faith as a human being and I have no objection to that, I would only respect and love the man inside.

     

     

    I would like to quote here from the KrishnaChrist Second Coming 1835-1908 that the accounts of the NTBible written by scribes are exaggerated; and I think it would be an interesting read for everybody here in the forum.

     

     

    KrishnaChrist Second Coming 1835-1908 says:

     

     

    Therefore, there is no doubt that Jesus was not crucified, i.e., he did not die on the Cross, for his personality did not deserve the underlying consequence of death on the Cross. Not having been crucified, he was spared the impure implications of a curse, and no doubt it also proves that he did not go to heaven, for going to heaven formed part of this whole scheme and was a consequence of the idea of his having been crucified.

     

    Therefore, when it is proved that he was neither accursed, nor did he go to hell for three days, nor did he suffer death the other part of the scheme, namely, that he went to heaven, is proved to be wrong. On this point the Bible has more evidence which I proceed to state below. There is the statement of Jesus: ‘But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee’ (Matthew: chapter 26, verse 32).

     

    This verse clearly shows that Jesus, after he had come out of the tomb, went to Galilee and not to heaven. Jesus’ words ‘After I am risen’ do not mean his rising up alive after he was dead; rather, as in the eyes of the Jews and the common people he had died on the Cross, he used words beforehand consistent with what they were to think of him in the future, and indeed, the man who was placed on the Cross, in whose hands and feet nails had been driven till he had fainted from pain, had become as good as dead; if such a man was saved from such a calamity and if he recovered his senses it would not be an exaggeration on his part to say that he had come to life again.

     

    There is no doubt that after so much suffering, Jesus’ escape from death was a miracle; it was no ordinary event. But to think that he had died is wrong. It is true that in the books of the New Testament words of this kind occur, but this is a mistake of the writers of those books, just as they had committed mistakes in recording several other historical events. Commentators who have made researches into these books admit that the books of the New Testament have two parts: (1) the spiritual instruction received by the disciples from Jesus (peace be on him) which is the essence of the teachings of the Gospel; (2) historical events — like the genealogy of Jesus; his arrest and his being beaten; the existence in his time of a miraculous pond, etc.

     

    These, the writers recorded by themselves; they were not revealed; rather, they were set down in accordance with the writer’s own ideas. In some places there are undue exaggerations, as where it is stated that if all the miracles and works of Jesus were recorded in books, the earth would not be able to accommodate these books. How exaggerated is this statement!

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

     

    Paarsurrey says:

     

    Needless to state that Jesus after escaping death on the Cross, migrated from that cruel country , persecuting a truthful Divine Guide, to Kashmir and he died a natural and peaceful death there and is buried in a tomb at Mohallah Khanyar, Sirinagar, Kashmir.

     

    Jesus did in fact come to India which is indepedently verifiable from the Hindu/Buddhistic/Muslim sources. One such article can be viewed: Salivahana-an Indian ancient king meets Jesus the Messiah : http://www.salagram.net/Jesus-Went-To-India.htm: http://www.krishna.com., jtcd@xtra.co.nz jtcd@xtra.co.nz

     

    Thanks


  18.  

    By Bhakta Narsigh Mehta.

     

    In translation:

     

    One who is a Vaishnav, feels and understands the pain of others

    Does good to others, especially to those who are in misery

    Does not let pride enter his mind,

     

    A Vaishnav, honours and praises the the entire world

    Does not criticize or say bad things about anyone

    Keeps his words, actions and thoughts pure

    O Vaishnav, your mother is blessed

     

    A Vaishnav sees everything and everyone equally,

    rejects greed and avarice

    Respects women especially some one else's wife as his mother

    His toungue may get tired, but will never speak lies

    He does not even touch someone else's property

     

    A Vaishnav does not succumb to worldly attachments

    Who has devoted himself to staunch detachment from worldly pleasures

    Who has been addicted to the elixir of the name of God

    For whom all the sacred places of pilgrimage are in the mind

     

    Who has no greed and is not deceitful

    Who has renounced lust and anger

    The poet Narsi would like to see such a person

    By whose virtue, his entire family gets salvation

     

    Hi

     

    Sorry I could not understand and enjoy the original text; yet I do appreciate the translation.

     

    Thanks and regards


  19.  

    The best way to recognize true devotees is to become one yourself.

     

    Hare Krishna

     

    Hi

     

    One can only try to become one; would become one in reality if one is accepted by One- the Creator of the heavens and earth. The devotion has to be accepted by Him and acknowledged; otherwise one is not a devotee, in my opinion.

     

    Thanks and please don't mind.


  20.  

    I was wondering similar things, so i looked some things up in the Bhagavad Gita As It Is. This is some of what i read on the subject.

     

    -How can you recognize true devotees?

     

    1:29

    Softheartedness

    1:44

    Conscious of moral principles

    12:15

    Since a devotee is kind to everyone, he does not act in such a way as to put others into anxiety.at the same time,if others try to put a devotee into anxiety,he is not disturbed. It is by the grace of the lord that he is so practised that he is not disturbed by any outward disturbance.......

     

     

    Hi

     

    Please don't mind.

     

    How would you explain the above for Krishna and Moses?

     

    I believe Krishna ,Moses and Jesus as Princes of Peace at different times and places yet with same morals.

     

    Thanks


  21.  

    Originally Posted by paarsurrey

    I write a peaceful Muslim; and that I am

     

     

     

     

    imagine Mahatma Gandhi moving around with a tag around his neck saying "Hey everybody, I'm peaceful". ;)

     

    Wel, I don't mind if Gandhi does that to express outwardly what he believed inwardly; if he had believed that.

     

    By peaceful I mean that I have been convinced heart and soul by sound, rational and reasonable arguments; and that I have not closed the windows and doors of my heart and soul for still more to come from anywhere.

     

    I think that should satisfy you.


  22. paarsurrey says:

     

    Man is born in this world with the will and mercy of the Creator of Heavens and Earth. It is not an individual’s discretion where to be born and when to be born. One is born anywhere on the time axis or the space axis; and is responsible for search for Truth.

     

    It is better for him to place himself at different points on both the axis and observe his status in relation to Truth; this might help one remove one’s illusions and thus mend his ways, then one can steer his ways on to the true path again and set himself on a new point of understanding, maybe elevated than before.

     

    The Second Coming 1835-1908 (of Krishna/Christ) makes such an understanding very easy wherever we are on the globe. He is blessed with calling himself a Muslim- a submitter to truth in peace; and this is what one should be in real terms. A Christian or a Jew or a Hindu or a Muslim, etc, should be a submitter to truth in peace.

     

    I am a very ordinary follower of him. The Question is why?

    Because he has been guided by GodAllahYHWH and my following him does not hinder my path of following Krishna, Moses, Zorotushtara, Abrahm, Jesus, Socrates,Cyrus, Muhammad and other truthful persons born anywheres and anytimes in the globe; with whom God spoke one to one or face to face. This natural wisdom, or Revelation or Word of God from God’s mouth; endowed on him from One on High open new vistas of understanding.

     

    I have no problem in accepting Krishan/Krishna a DivineGuide.

    My question to my Hindu friends/brothers in humanity is: if you were in Krishna’s time; would you have accepted him or rejected him? If you would have accepted him (I pray you would have); under what criteria/principles? If you would have not accepted him; under what criteria/principles?

     

    I must say you must find the truthful criteria; as that would prove, in my opinion, that you don’t have a blind faith or an illusion; but a research based faith or a faith with eyes.

     

    If Jesus falls within your criteria; would you accept him a DivineGuide?

     

    Thanks

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