sambya

you might not be aware that in villages it is rule to tie back the calf till the cow is milked lest it drinks up the milk himself !! many times the calf escapes in the morning and drinks up the milk to the dismay of its owners . obviously tis was before the advent of moderb hormonal injections and use of artificial medication to induce milk production ............

this does not clarify the original question at all . the question is by what reasons are things like raddish and masoor dal tamasic ? we know onion and garlic to be tamasic because it agitates the mind and heats up your body which in turn is an impediment to brahmancharya . but whats wrong with masoor dal for example ?

once in dakshineswar temple where saint sri ramakrishna paramahamsa lived there was a big problem . on the day of nandotsava the priest of radhakanta temple slipped and fell down while carrying the diety of sri krishna to the other room for sayan . the diety broke his leg . gradually the news reached the patron of the temple -rani rasmani . she grew tensed for this happened on an auspicious day . an immidiate meeting of learned brahmins from all over bengal( places like navadwipa , bhatpara etc) was summoned to arrive at a conclusion as to what is to be done with the broken diety . all brahmins agreed that the diety now being broken is unfit for worship and should be immersed in ganges and a new diety rebuilt in its place . but the devotee rani didnt seems to be ready to part with her loving deity . all the while ramakrishna was sitting in a corner and patietly listening to alll that was being said . at last rani asked him " what is your opinion ? " to this he replied , " would you throw in your son into ganges if he also broke a leg ? " this served as an eyeopener , the rani instantly dismissed the dry pundits and called for joining the broken leg and reinstalling the diety ! and there it stands till this day !

i think it is rather very easy to be a 'devotee'(in literal sense) in iskcon world !! all you have to do is be utra polite and never raise your voice and visit the temple frequently . at least this is the case in india ..........i dont know about west . i have seen many not so holy individuals pass off as high devotees just by adopting these pretences while many sincere devotees persecuted for activities like reading other philosophies or questioning some temple activities ! this no doubt is a deformation of mahaprabhu ' s "trinad api sunichena " . real humility comes with progress in devotional service and there is just no other way round ! iskcon it seems is a bit too preoccupied with this show of humility and unnecessary concern for vaishnava apradha ! no doubt it restricts the movement . secondly they are completely free to criticise and hate any other faith or sect . among the traditional gaudiya acharyas there was a strong dislike for contemporary advaitins . but modern version seems to dislike every other faith within indian landmass !! they see it as their responsibility to criticise brahmins by birth(no matter how pious they are) , hinduism , devas , devi , vedic culture , tantra , new age gurus and almost everyone !! for example what do they mean by the word 'karmi' ? it is used even for a spiritual devotee of any other god . and sadly no other senior member restricts their movements ... but i cannot remember such hatred in any of the traditional gurus of gaudiya sampradya . they all peacefully coexisted with others .

as usual you keep forgetting that mahaprabhu is not patented by any particular sect or organisation . numerous other sampradayas of often conflicting veiws also look up towards mahaprabhu in admiration and reverence ! i view him as an avatar and a beautiful saint . the film that i was talikng about has nothing to do with gaudiya vaishnavism . it was a reputed bengali film made in 1950's dealing with the life of srichaitanya , which i was searching for long . finally when i got it at gauranga tv i sat down to watch it . thats when i saw those anomalies ..... i didnt have any disagreements with the film as you are suggesting . i have disagreements with the subtitles which were (willfully ? ) distorted at times !!

yes it was like that . it would be wrong to say that it cannot refer to radha . but it is a secondary meaning ....... i mean not as commonly used as lakshmi . anyways your post was quite educative .........

god is complex to us because we are limted in our capabilities . god has laid out a beautiful and perfect plan for the universe . but we being so small and so insignificant cannot understand it and get stuck . therefore from human perspective god is complex . he is also complex from viewpoint of philosophy . but to a bhakta he is simplest of all . as he is infinite he can be said to be both complex and simplest at the same time !!

as per my observation and knowledge goes sri does not mean radharani . the primary two meanings are - 1:laxmi and 2: respectfull adjective used before someones name . another classic example of iskcon distortion of facts ! the other day i was watching an old 1950's bengali movie "nilachale mahprabhu" in a gaudiya vaishnvava site named gauranga tv . to my horror the subtitles sometimes were completely distorted to a new meaning ! and even if it means radharani that is obviously a secondary meaning and ought to be mentioned after stating the primary meanings ........

okay there is spiritual knowledge which is also the knowledge of god( i mean wisdom) . apart from that there is material knowledge . both the knowledges are beneficial to mankind and i see no reason why knowledge of one field could be applied to the other . but for any individual spiritual knowledge stands at a higher position than material knowledge . a human birth without knowledge of god is considered worthless . so a person having material knowledge and denying spiritual knowledge is not worthwhile . but this of course is from the viewpoint of spiritual scriptures . the normal science that began in middle ages and continues till this day and taught in schools and universities . includes different fields of science and still unproven but popular hypothesis like worm hole or multiverse . why ? what was so difficult in understanding the term 'moden science' ? thats good !! i wish it could happen fast ! but supposse that some attributes described in the scriptures cannot be found out by science even after lot of research . now would that mean those attributes are non existent , in your understanding ?!!

can someome tell me why raddish and masur dal is forbidden ? and how does milk which is obtained by depriving the calf of its mothers milk be more sattwick than burned or double cooked rice ?

guru kripahi kevalam........... may our minds be illuminated like the radiant moonbeams of this purnima , through grace of guru . jai sri guru ........

there might have been a communication problem here . i used the word knowledge in the sense of wisdom - and that is the standard meaning of the word in indian spiritual scriptures . you were using knowledge in the sense of book reading . what i was saying is that mere book reading and dry speculation will do nothing to get you the wisdom ....... you need sadhana and devotion for that . do you disagree ? modern science doesnt believe in personal god - one who has a anthropomorphic form , but our scriptures repeatedly speaks of such god . do you deny such gods merely because science does not accept them ? what examination do you suggest ? something involving radar detection , telescope and similar instruments ? please elaborate tell me .....do you really think it is possible to 'prove' god to the entire population using material science ?!! i have nothing to fear........ill be the happiest if you suceed doing that , but sadly our own scriptures indicate that it is not possible !

i do not drink because i dont like drinking . neither is it supported by scriptures nor did i like it at any point of time . yes , all those activities that you have reffered also clouds your mind . so in the final stages one has to transcend hunger and sleep . but thats the last stage . and these activities are indispensible and are basic requirements . either you die or you continue doing these . but that is definately not the case with drinking alcohol . that is a voluntary activity and its power to cloud the mind is thousand times stronger than that of ordinary thirst or hunger . so a spiritual aspirant should begin by discarding those habits that can be done away with . also most of the mental agitation and cloudiness can be attributed to ourselves . think of a situation when you are infatuated for any other person . the power to cloud and agitate the mind is tremendous !! thing of greed for money , lust , thirst for power , love towards pets etc etc . these are all created by man and have much much more power than hunger or sleeping . when you analyze you shall see that it is self induced attachments that disturb the mind more . the natural agitators are highly insignificant .

thats because they are often left with no better answer when they are made to confront some questioning individual with an inquisitive mind . it is an escape psychology by scaring the opponent .

i dont understand what you are trying to suggest when you say hinduism and buddhism are obsolete . well , people labell some individuals as god mainly due to many complex reasons and im not going into those details now . but personally i believe that the message taught by those elevated individuals are far more important than worshipping them as gods . this is because their very advent(if they are gods) is to educate the ignorant . its more imporatant to follow their teachings than create a lavish temple for them . but their is also no harm if someone worships them with utmost sincerity after obeying to his revealed path ! and i also agree with you that the power to liberate oneself lies entirely on your own self . but you did not understand the real message that i wanted to convey . when i said avatar or divine beings i was reffering to those rare individuals who are seen once in a while in history . but for the majority of people getting liberated without following any rituals is practically impossible . if you beg to differ show me some examples where you saw such an individual !!

not exactly . by trying to explain god one comes to know his various attributes and features as explained in scriptures and other religions . but one cannot arrive at 'knowledge' of god through that . for knowing god personally one must have a strong desire to know him or love him coupled with sincere sadhana .............there's no other way . infact explantions and endless talks destroy the calmness of mind ! but your last post didnt clarify your stand properly . you said that God which cannot be explained through Science MUST be thrown away . now that means only that much of god must be accepted as is materially 'proven' by science . which in turn means that gods validity is subject to scientific 'proofs' !!! is that what you actually meant ?

yes i accept that . its not strictly impossible but only avatara and divine humans are capable of attaining liberation without observance of any rituals . for the overwhelming majority or nimna-adhikaris it remains a must .

spiritually speaking it does mean your are unclean . ill explain how -- the main point in indian spirituality is that we are illusioned by maya into believing ourselves as things which we are not . we identify ourselves with silly little temporal objects and constantly suffer as a result . to realize and come out of this persistent delusion is what is called moksha or nirvana and the practise to come out of its sticky clutches is called sadhana . this moksha calls for perfect purity in mind body and thought . this includes things like perfect truthfulness and perfect brahmancharya even in mind . it might sound utopian and ansurd but it is factually possible and can be easily seen in the mystics of ancient and modern india . now things like alcohol actually deludes the already ignorant mind even further ! one is not able to remain in proper senses and affects you discrimitaing power and buddhi - the chief characterisitcs which diffrentiates us from animals . thus it clouds your mind . in this way it instantly harms your sadhana and makes you ' 'unclean' . here 'unclean' means disturbed conciousness or restless mind . all the rituals , puja sadha that we do is to calm this ever restless mind so that we can catch the reflection of our self in out mind . firstly rituals are not what the soul need . infact it is more binding for a soul's final liberation !! rituals are intermediatory practises which assist in gradual cleansing of the mind from the good and bad impressions gathered in its previous lives . it is a part of sadhana . so theoritically one can be a clean soul withot following rituals . but practically speaking this is impossible . rituals helps us to attain the purity . here the purity that im speaking of is perfect purity . also , having a good soul and living happy and peacefull are not the same terms !!

there are numerous causes why people follow rituals here in india . for most it is mixture of following tradition and getting a smooth material life . when asked these people would say " our forefathers have done it " or " its compulsory " or " im not suppossed to break tradition . no one feel imposed or pressurised . its in the very nature of indian people to folloe tradition . they accept and love them just like eating sleeping or washing . it is a part of everyday life . it is not possible to understand this apparently strange psychology through western minds . then there are another group who want self realization and love these rituals . thn ofcourse there is a minority group which is heavily influenced by some other material philosophies or western materialism and shuns such activities . fear of punishment from god is low in india than in western countries . here people often worship to get blessings from god to help smoothen their lives . they might be scared that such blessings would stop without worship , but they are not scared that god will punish them . rituals are not a restriction of freedom in india . at least thats what majority thinks . in fact freedom is so high in india that you can remain a hindu without ever having visited any temple even once !

its true that people are free to believe either science or religion . infact anyone is free to beilieve anything he wishes to believe . and most people do not actually condemn religion . but it is a fact that a vast majority of modern western people hardly have any faith or interest in their original religion - christianity that is . christianity has not dissapeared .....thats true . numerically it is the most influential faith . but how many people actually practise christianity in the west ? for many people church serves a few purpose-marraige and funeral service !! this practising christianity is dying in west . but in the east religion is no less than science , if not higher . all eastern religions are alive and most hindus are everyday practising hindus . that was the difference i was trying to show . this is not something to illustrate with a few sentences . basically science have discovered or hypothised about the similarities between advitist thoughts and concepts of creation and cosmos and modern astrophysics . there are numerous books available on that matter . the one that i can immideately remember is the tao of physics . it was an international bestseller . try reading those books and im sure you will get your answers in a much better way than what i would be capable of explaining to you !! pranaam .

thanks to all

i feel god is not something or someone that can ever be explained by science in scientific terms . about a decade back stephen hawkings claimed that he is about to formulate something which he called the theory of everything(if i remember correctly) which shall be one single mathematical euqation applicable to all aspects of physics and solving all problems !! to discover such a master-equation would be almost discovering god !! infact the exact words that hawkings used were "reading the mind of god" !! but then a few years back he finally concluded that it is not possible for him to formulate any such things nor it is likely that it shall ever be . god can never be reached through science because what we call scientific proof is basically related to observation by any or all of our five material(and imperfect) sense organs . and god is concentrated consciousness . it is not possible to reach to chit(consciousness) through jada(material) . so it is very natural that god cannot be explained by science . if it was possible then i would start doubting that god on whether it was god at all . so are you trying to suggest that god is percievable through our gross imperfect material senses by following the processes of experimentaion , observation and inference ??!!

i wish you guys could actually see that mark !! there are countless people out there who would be more happier than me to see it . lets all pray that things change in puri in a short time !

im uploading one of the pictures of lord jagannath (the original deity of puri) that i took on rathayatra day

i am just back after attending prabhu jagannath's punar-rathayatra in puri and thought of sharing these with all . the first day as i was about to enter the gundicha mandir where jagannath is residing for seven festive days i saw a old lady of western descent quietly doing a parikrama round the gundhicha temple with the chanting bag in her hands . as she walked along she sometimes touched her forehead onto the big fortified boundarywall of the ancient temple . being a westerner she did not have the 'right' to get inside and have a glimpse of the lord . it was almost 1'o clock in the morning and sun was beating down heavily . i felt like she was some dreadfull 'enemy' who was to be kept outside the fortified battlements of a deity whom we call(mistakenly ?) jagannath !!! i felt really bad . again in the evening there was a western saffrom devotee standing at the doors of gundicha gazing intently inside the premises while jostling crowds of indian people happily entered the temple . there was no sign of remorse on the saffrom devotees face - perhaps he is accustomed to the facts and has accepted the jurisdiction . but looking at him , far away from his home and culture just for sake of jagannath i wished that i could back out and give him the 'right' or entry . actually i felt far less eligible to enter the temple than him . what do we call this ? brahminical hypocrisy ? corruption ? or divine business with a 'commodity ' called god ? looking at the behaviour of the infamous puri pandas and priests one couldnt help but think that all this is a big organised business . there is no place for the poor . the more the amount you pay the more close you get to jagannath . the poor remains the deprived . the day after rathayatra common people are allowed to climb up the chariots parked in the front of the main temple and hug their lordships(cant decribe how beautifull experience it was) . but the next moment i was horrified to hear a panda shouting abuses(mother f#@% in hindi ) to some helpless pilgrim for paying less money , all the while leaning on one of the arms of jagannath !!! on second thoughts i realise that whatever happens is for good and according to will of the lord !! and looking into history we can see that it has been a standard practice to use god as a commodity by the priests . but judging the lives of great saints i realised their power to derive the mellow even out of such anarchy !! they came , extracted the honey and bathed in ananda and quietly left . perhaps it is their way to teaching to us how to see good in all . i am thinking of chaitanya mahaprabhu .......... he didnt even step inside the sanctum sanctorum and yet had the highest prema !! while the ratha of sri jagannath was on move the nearby shop owners started throwing small plastic made pouches of distilled water(the ones that are commonly sold for drinking) at the rathas . they banged against the giant charitoteer's cheeks , wheels and at the priests standing atop the ratha !! some of these pouches didnt burst and were thrown back by the priest to the shops !! it was a kind of miniature water-holi !! all the while there was thunderous sounds of "haribolo" from the crowds . a perfect way of rejoicing with the lord !! they are his neighbours after all . in the jagmohan or the second hall of puri temple there stands the ancient garuda stambha where sri chaitanya stood to gaze upon their lordships . he used to gently hold on to the nearby stone wall of the temple . regular usage gradually caused three small indents to be formed in that adjoining wall from the three nails of three middle fingers of sri chaitanya . and it is visible there still today . people come and touch their forehead on that sacred mark !! the day after rathaytra they allow people to climb up the ratha and hug jagnnath deva . this was more than i could have expected !! i barely stepped on the ratha when it started to rain in torrents . lord gave me shelter in his chariot . it was a moment of total bliss ..........indescribable . i hugged the lord with both my arms and then stood at a corner as the rains lashed across the chariot verandah . guess what ? the main body of lord sri jagannath is circular in shape instead of what is usually shown in commercially available deities and paintings !! and his body is soft like a baby !! this is because he is covered with soft clothes and sandal paste many times over . except his face the rest are covered with such wrappings . he felt like a giant soft toy !! ha ha ............and he was looking so sweet and yet majestic . yesterday (3rd july) night they had the famous sona-besha where the lord is dressed entirely in gold . he is decorated in gold hands and gold feet . there is a massive gathering of millions of men from all over for this occassion ! one day as i was about to enter the gundhica temple i was approached by a poor blind couple asking me to show the way to the entrance of the temple . they had sticks in their hand and groped to find their way . as i led them to the queue i couldnt control my emotions ...........they are blind and have probably never even seen a human or the world in which they live ....................they can never see god the way we do ...................they are blind..........and yet they are slowly making their way to jagannath . i dont know .........probably never can know how will they feel his (jagannaths) presence if not by seeing .!! the only question that hammered in my mind was " why ? " ......karma ? sins of past birth ? what made these sincere bhaktas so miserable ? miserable ? on second thought i felt it is me who is miserable . as they slowly made their way to their destination i saw their heads dissapear in the crowds . all i thought was ........." perhaps they have greater eyes than me ! after all whoever has ever seen him with eyes of flesh and blood ? jai