Progress Of Kali-Yuga :Establishing homosexuality as a bona fide practice

[Guest guest]

Progress Of Kali-Yuga

 

BY ANANDA-SVARUPA DASA

 

The increasingly shrill attempt of Amara dasa to somehow or other establish homosexuality as a bona fide practice for the human being is certainly one of the more odd occurrences in the era after the departure of Srila Prabhupada. We can hardly imagine such an attempt being even aired during the manifest presence of Srila Prabhupada. Under the guidance of the great acarya the standard given was that sex was for the procreation of Krsna-conscious children and otherwise not to be indulged in. Until Amara dasa can find a way to create children through homosexuality, we cannot consider his speculative, self-serving musings on the history of Indian society as anything other than the content of an aberrant mind unconcerned with the standards of spiritual practice.

 

His latest offering, "India's Slow Descent Into Homophobia", indicates the misaligned coordinates of his intelligence. In the article India's deviation from Vedic culture' is practically equated with the societal repression of homosexuality. Such a subtext can only be regarded as farcical at best. It seems that the underlying intention of Amara dasa is re-establish his version of Vedic culture' by the tactic of making homosexual behavior acceptable. Apparently, he considers! that a society "descends" as it represses homosexuality and therefore will ascend' as it removes homosexuality from its list of natural perversions. Where is the support for such a view? Certainly not with Srila Prabhupada who, in accordance with the descriptions in the Srimad Bhagavatam, equated unregulated perverse sexual practice with the progress of Kali-yuga.

 

The central point of Amara dasa to support his proposed Vedic acceptance of homosexuality is the mention of this activity in "Sanskrit writings". Other than a mention of the Kama-sutrahardly a text for Vaisnava sadhakaswhat these "writings" are we are never told. But, apparently he considers that any perversion written about in Sanskrit indicates acceptability in his Vedic culture'. Such a premise is certainly without logic. In the contemporary modern society there are certainly writings and depictions of homosexuality, pedophilia and zoophilia. According to the premise of Amara dasa, this would indicates an acceptability of these perversions in contemporary society. We think not. Yet, according to the logic of Amara dasa, a depiction or Sanskrit writing' on the subject of zoophilia indicates a Vedic' social acceptability of sex with animals.

 

The illogical premise that the usage of Sanskrit terminology lends social acceptability to any sexual behavior is repeated in Amara dasa's concocted use of the term "the third nature (tritiya-prakriti)". Perhaps if Amara dasa can find or concoct a Sanskrit term for zoophilia, then we should understand that sex with animals is socially acceptable in Vedic culture'?

 

However, these aforesaid points are only of minor import for we are in essence a society that follows the teachings of Sri Caitanya, the great preacher of the Srimad Bhagavatam. What then is the view of the Bhagavatam on homosexuality. Put simply, it is demoniac:

 

SB 3.20.23

 

TRANSLATION

 

Lord Brahma then gave birth to the demons from his buttocks, and they were very fond of sex. Because they were too lustful, they approached him for copulation.

 

PURPORT

 

Sex life is the background of material existence. Here also it is repeated that demons are very fond of sex life. The more one is free from the desires for sex, the more he is promoted to the level of the demigods; the more one is inclined to enjoy sex, the more he is degraded to the level of demoniac life.

 

SB 3.20.24

 

TRANSLATION

 

The worshipful Brahma first laughed at their stupidity, but finding the shameless asuras close upon him, he grew indignant and ran in great haste out of fear.

 

PURPORT

 

Sexually inclined demons have no respect even for their father, and the best policy for a saintly father like Brahma is to leave such demoniac sons.

 

Sb 3.20.26

 

TRANSLATION

 

Lord Brahma, approaching the Lord, addressed Him thus: My Lord, please protect me from these sinful demons, who were created by me under Your order. They are infuriated by an appetite for sex and have come to attack me.

 

PURPORT

 

It appears here that the homosexual appetite of males for each other is created in this episode of the creation of the demons by Brahma. In other words, the homosexual appetite of a man for another man is demoniac and is not for any sane male in the ordinary course of life.

 

Is there any need for comment beyond this? Here is the verdict of the Bhagavatam and the purport of the empowered acarya, Srila Prabhupada. This is actual Vedic culture, and any pretence of devotional life while propounding conclusions opposite to these only indicate - as T. Bhaktivinoda has written - the "Kali-chela" - the disciple of Kali-yuga.

 

I hope you find this useful,

 

Your servant, Ananda-svarupa dasa

 

[I_love_krishna_ 0]

Homosexuality as mentioned in the dictionary is :

 

Sexual orientation to persons of the same sex.

Sexual activity with another of the same sex.

 

____

 

 

Now, if they really want to be the part of our movement , then they have to not have sex . so, the

"sexual activity with another of the same sex" is totally out.

 

and also, when we realize that we are that spark of krishna, why are we attracted to the opposite sex anymore, or the same sex...?

 

So the whole homosexuality thing is ridiculous.

 

I think they can join but they don't have to make a big fuss about it, but if they join however, they would have to give up homosexuality just like the others who give up attraction to the opposite sex.

 

 

hmmm....... I sense that there will be many posters after me..... why do I think that is the case?.... we may never know. /images/graemlins/ooo.gif

[Sunanda 0]

i think gay people in KC have to be respected and they need our compassion... there's a lot of gay devotee, don't you know that ? why did they came in the movement ? because they're demons and they want us to fall down ?? certainly not! they came because they love Krishna. Unfortunately, a large percentage ofthe devotees reject them ! maybe you have a problem with one guy, but don't generalize on all the homosexuals.

In KC i learn to be compassionate, i learn to love, not to tell everybody they 're demons. If you tell them that, a lot will leave... will you be successful in your preaching ? no.

YOU HAVE TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE, AND TO DO SO, YOU HAVE TO SEE THE GOOD QUALITIES IN THEM, that's the most important !

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

 

i think gay people in KC have to be respected and they need our compassion...

 

 

This discussion time and again always comes to this same strawman argument. No one has ever said that homosexual devotees shouldn't be respected, given compassion, allowed to enter our temples and perform devotion, etc.

 

These GALVA people are trying to establish the absurd claim that homosexuality was natural in Vedic culture, that it is perfectly in line with Chaitanya Vaishnavism, that Prabhupada in a secret unrecorded conversation sanctioned union of gay couples, that it is natural and not sinful for homosexuals to engage in homosex acts, and the best of all, homosexuals are actually more advanced because they are automatocally detached from family life. They repeatedly distort the statements of scripture to fool the scripturally uneducated and innocent, all while accusing Srila Prabhupada of being ignorant and uninformed.

 

This has already been discussed a hundred times on this forum, so I will just post a link to my previous article on this matter:

 

http://www.indiadivine.com/galva-reply.htm

 

 

there's a lot of gay devotee, don't you know that ?

 

 

And there are a lot of devotees that smoke, eat meat, etc. Like all other vices, they should perform their devotion humbly while trying to purify themselves. They should not try to claim that their vices are actually virtues that were glorified in Vedic culture.

 

 

[livingentity 0]

and Amen!!

 

Well said, JNdas!

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

Here is an example of the distortion and deception present in the Galva articles. One of the Galva authors claimed that the Srimad Bhagavatam mentions homosexuals with the word "nartaka". Below was my response:

 

 

 

"

 

Both of the referred quotes have absolutely nothing to do with homosexuals at all. The particular word used in both verses is "nartaka". Nartaka simply means "dancer". It is a very common word used throughout the Puranas and Itihasas. It always refers to dancers, not to homosexuals.

 

In fact, Nartaka is a name of Lord Krishna, "nartaka-gopala"; and he is found in the holy dhama of Udupi. It refers to Gopala the dancer, not to Gopala the homosexual. We have two related words, one is "nartana" which means dancing, and the other is "nartaka", which means "one who dances". The usage of this word is very clear and direct. There is no scope for confusion. I can only conclude that the distortion offered by the author of the article was intentional, as there is nothing confusing about this word and its definition.

 

The referred Bhagavatam verse is as follows:

 

nata-nartaka-gandharvah

suta-magadha-vandinah

gayanti cottamashloka-

caritany adbhutani ca

 

"Expert dramatists, artists, dancers, singers, historians, genealogists and learned speakers all gave their respective contributions, being inspired by the superhuman pastimes of the Lord. Thus they proceeded on and on."

 

The enumeration of dramatists, dancers, singers, puranic reciters, historians, and learned speakers together in a list make it quite clear that "nartaka" is referring to nothing except plain old dancers. To imply that the list should refer to "dramatists, singers, puranic reciters and homosexuals" is ludicrous.

 

In other shastras we even find that the soul is itself referred to as "nartaka". In the Shiva sutras (9) it is stated:

 

nartaka aatmaa

 

"The self is a dancing actor."

 

The verse does not mean that the soul (atma) is a homosexual. The word nartaka refers specifically to a dancer, and to misuse such statements to propagate our own speculations is certainly an injustice. It is definitely not a sign of scholarship. To put our own teachings into what we read and hear is sravanam (hearing) and kirtanam (reciting) influenced by the modes of passion and ignorance. This is described by Lord Kapila in the third canto of Srimad Bhagavatam, how the nine processes of devotional service become polluted by the three modes of material nature.

 

Nartana is the art of dancing, and those that follow it are nartakas. Generally those who are born as eunuchs (physically lacking either male or female sex), take to feminine arts such as dance. We even find this in todays modern reflection of homosexuals. Thus Prabhupada mentions in the Chaitanya Charitamrita 1.13.106 purport that eunuchs took to dancing as a livelyhood. Having said that, hardly 0.1% of nartakas (dancers) are eunuchs, even today.

 

In reply the author has stated:

 

 

 

 

This is again an unbelievable deception. It is not that the word "can" refer to a dancer, but that it "does" factually and literally mean dancer. This is language, and the word nartaka means dancer. One can check the roots of the word and confirm this truth.

 

In the article, the author states that the eunuchs are extremely auspicious people. This is not true. A eunuch is born as such due to their sinful activities in their previous life. Certain signs are auspicious or inauspicious according to the circumstances. For example a crow cawing at the back of one's house, an elephant walking towards one's path, etc. The object is neither auspicious nor inauspicious, it is the circumstance that determines the result. If a new child is born, then it is an auspicious sign to see a eunuch, whereas on the battlefield it is an inauspicious sign to see a eunuch. To take only one aspect of the science of omens and to then conclude that eunuchs themselves are auspicious is another distortion.

 

[Guruvani 0]

If we look into the actual agenda of the GALVA type devotees we will find that their goal is to have gay temple presidents, gay brahmins, gay GBC members and beleive it or not GAY SANNYASIS!

 

Why can't they just be satisfied that they are welcome to attend temple programs like everyone else. Why do they insist that the whole world has to accept being GAY as some sort of race or national origin.

 

 

If I were King........immediately after GAY PRIDE DAY, they would have to go back to being ashamed!

[Krsnanatha 0]

One can always bend almost any philosophy to fit ones illicit material desires.

I remember one Bhakta approaching me and telling me that one of our initiated devotees had convinced him to smoke marijuana with him justifiying doing so because "Lord Shiva smokes ganja and he is the best of the Vaisnavas."

I explained to him whatever may be said in connection to Lord Shiva we are not Lord Shiva and all the preceptors in our line of teaching have recommended strongly against such activity.

It is without question best to avoid sin and when one can't, better to take the blame upon one's self for being unable to reach the proper standard as opposed to trying to bend and distort the siddhanta into some farcicle justification for fallen behavior.

If one is sinful acknowledging the short coming and praying to Krsna to take the petty obsession away would seem the most result bearing gesture.

(Definition of Obsession: Excessive preoccupation with an idea or delusion .)

Inventing propaganda that somehow those activities, whatever form they may take, which generate obstacles in spiritual pursuit and push one further away from the topmost goal of human life, realization of the Supreme Personality of Godhead are actually somehow acceptable is begging for ridicule from the community of those whose desire it is to engage the world around them in a honest minded fashion.