Guest guest Report post Posted September 24, 2004 Laura and Todd - I disagree with many of the more trendy discussions of gu syndrome. From my research, it appears to be a combined form of witchcraft and biological warfare. I.e.. gu toxins are created by placing scorpions, centipedes, spiders and other toxic crawling creatures into a shell so they consume each other leaving the most dangerous and toxic material. This is then placed into the well of a neighboring town. The theory of gu is still prevalent in the countryside and to ask about it may suggest too much special knowledge about such topics, thus causing one to be suspect. Nonetheless, here is a piece I translated with Christine Chang from Sun Si Miao's One Thousand Treasures Formulary. A. Detoxify Gu syndromes B. If the diarrhea has blood that is a red or black color with small volume, this is always a Gu toxin. Most untrained physicians will call this diarrhea. One who contracts Gu toxins may have diarrhea or vomit that looks like smashed meat. There may be a sensation inside as if something is biting. If this remains untreated, it will ruin the five organs and cause death. The easy way to diagnose Gu toxin is to have the patient spit into the water. If the spit sinks into the water it is Gu if it doesn't sink, it is not Gu. [This passage is consistent with the symptoms of GI tract cancer] The formulas: Formula I Qian Zao Gen (Radix Rubiae cordifoliae) 3 liang He Gen (Lotus root) 3 liang Use 4 cups of water cook to two cups and drink immediately Formula II Shi Hu (inside skin) (Dendrobium) 2 liang Tao Gen (peach root) 1 liang Wei Pi (porcupine skin) roast and grind to powder Ma Zi Zhi (sesame oil) 5 cups Fa Hui (crnis carbinosatis) .5 liang First, cook the Shi Hu and Tao Gen and cook in 4 cups of water reducing to two. Mix this with sesame oil and hair ash and let the patient eat one tablespoon of this. Prepare a basin of water for vomit and stimulate the throat to elicit vomit. In the beginning, the vomit looks like saliva. Then a small animal like mass will come and the rest of the Gu toxins will follow. Formula III Shi Hu (inside skin) (Dendrobium) 5 cun long and one handfull Use three cups of water reduce to one cup. Take on an empty stomach and encourage vomit, then the Gu worms will come out. Formula IV Wei Pi (porcupine skin) roast and grind to powder Take one tablespoon with water, induce vomit and the Gu will come out. << , " heylaurag " <heylaurag@h...> wrote: > Hi pardon my naivete, but what is gu syndrome? >> I am busy for a few days. can someone else field this? Best - Will William R. Morris, L.Ac., O.M.D. Dean of Educational Advancement Emperor's College of Oriental Medicine 310-453-8300 phone 310-829-3838 fax will Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 24, 2004 , " Will " <will@e...> wrote: > Laura and Todd - > > I disagree with many of the more trendy discussions of gu syndrome. From = my > research, it appears to be a combined form of witchcraft and biological > warfare. I am not sure what you mean by trendy. Heiner Fruehauf has written the mos= t detailed introduction to this subject in English. Bob Flaws has also researched it.= Both Fruehauf and Flaws have found that this concept, like many CM concepts, though roote= d in demonology, has evolved into a more naturalistic concept. Here is an essay= of mine summarizing my experience with Heiner Fruehauf's teaching on the matter. H= einer is a personal teacher of mine. The footnotes are from the following articles: 34.? Fruehauf, Heiner, ¡°Gu Syndrome:? A Forgotten Clinical Approach to Chr= onic Parasitism¡±, Journal of #57, pg. 11 35.? Ibid, pp. 13-14 36.? Flaws, Bob, Gu Parasites & Yin Fire Theory, bluepoppy.com 37.? Fruehauf, Heiner, ¡°Gu Syndrome:? A Forgotten Clinical Approach to Chr= onic Parasitism¡±, Journal of #57, pg. 13 38.? Bob Flaws, Personal Correspondence, 9/24/99 39.? Fruehauf, Heiner, ¡°Gu Syndrome:? A Forgotten Clinical Approach to Chr= onic Parasitism¡±, Journal of #57, pg. 13 40.? Ibid, pg. 15 41.? Flaws, Bob, Zhu dan-xi on Gu Conditions, bluepoppy.com 42.? Fruehauf, personal correspondence, 10/21/99 43.? Bob Flaws, Personal Correspondence, 9/24/99 44.? Flaws, Bob, Zhu dan-xi on Gu Conditions, bluepoppy.com 45.? Fruehauf, Heiner, ¡°Gu Syndrome:? A Forgotten Clinical Approach to Chr= onic Parasitism¡±, Journal of #57, pg. 16 Heiner Fruehauf has written and lectured at length for the past few years a= bout his take on Gu syndrome.? Gu syndrome is the result of some sort of evil infestation.? = This may include worms, protozoa, bacteria and viruses from the modern perspective.?= In ancient times. gu syndrome was associated with demonic possession, because of the b= izarre mental symptoms patients often exhibit.? Because of this textual emphasis o= n demons, the modern communists were pretty quick to jettison this pattern when they stan= dardized TCM.? However, the frequent mention of GU in classical texts and the claims= of cure for stubborn chronic ailments caught the eye of Fruehauf. Fruehauf practices in Portland, Oregon and has seen a lot of knotty cases o= ver the years.? We mentioned Dr. Fruehauf earlier in the lesson on the six stage theory.? F= ruehauf was trained inthe classical method of zhang zhong jing and relies heavily on th= ese ancient formulae in his practice.? Fruehauf also likes Li dong yuan¡¯s dynamic meth= od of regulating the stomach and spleen, so he has always focused on the qi mechanism in his= teaching and practice.? However, certain patients with chronic digestive and mental = complaints were not getting well using standard methods.? Noting that many of these patient= s had presently or previously tested positive for various parasites led Dr. Frueh= auf on a peculiar journey through the archive of Chinese medicine.? In the process, he uneart= hed another piece of the puzzle of how to treat chronic illness through regulation of t= he qi mechanism. It is important to begin with the understanding that gu syndrome is not an = acute parasite invasion.? It often begins that way, but according to Fruehauf, gu is the ¡= °state of extreme stagnation and mental and physical decay ... [caused] by parasites that com= bine their toxic potential to gradually putrefy the patient¡¯s body and mind.¡±34? Other cha= racteristics of Gu reinforce its association with mysterious chronic illnesses.? Gu causes not= iceable problems long after an initial infection was apparently resolved.? Patients often ex= perience diverse unusual groups of symptoms.? Digestive symptoms can be severe and painful, = with aberration of appetites and cravings.? Symptoms of hot, cold, photophobia a= nd fibromyalgia/arthralgia are common.? Depression, anger, anxiety, insomnia a= re a few of many mental aberrations.? Patients may feel possesed or even have seizures.= ? So food allergy, candida, multiple chemical sensitivity, fibromyalgia and other com= mon diagnoses may all be related to gu syndrome in some cases. According to Fruehauf, Gu only occurs in a weakened individual, so the ther= apeutic approach relies on strategies that supplement deficiency as well as expel g= u toxins.? Longterm gu patients cannot handle the very hot or very cold herbs often us= ed to treat parasites.? They are thus prescribed rather unusual formulae that kill para= sites directly in some cases, but focus more on calming the mind, as well as supplementing an= d moving both the qi and the blood.? The herbs selected in these various categories = are specific for their anti-gu nature.? Not just any herbs will do.? The key to anti-gu ther= apy is the use of large dosages of surface relieving herbs.? According to Fruehauf, large dos= ages of surface relieving herbs like bo he and zi su ye have a penetrating effect on the sy= stem.? They illuminate the dark places where gu toxins lodge and allow the other herbs = in the formula to reach to every crevice of the body.35 Bob Flaws has noticed that the formulae suggested for gu syndrome bear a st= riking resemblance to Li dong yuan¡¯s methodology for yin fire discussed above.36?= Remember, Li was famous for his explicit use of surface relieving herbs to ascend the sp= leen qi.? While zhang zhong jing was the first to actually do this, Li was the first to wri= te about this methodology at length.? So both approaches use surface relieving herbs, ton= ics and heat clearing agents simultaneously to treat a problem rooted in the digestive s= ystem.? However, there are distinct differences, as well.? According to Fruehauf, G= u specialists used much larger doses of surface relievers than spleen/stomach specialists= because their intent was penetration of the darkest recesses where gu may have lodged, ra= ther than merely uplifting the qi.? Fruehauf has also stated that certain tonics are = also prohibited in Gu, particularly ginseng, one of Li¡¯s favorites.? Ginseng is said to worse= n gu and is often used as a diagnostic indicator thereof (i.e. if a very depleted patient bec= omes violently ill upon taking ginseng, you should consider gu syndrome).37 In any event, there are distinct relationships between certain aspects of g= u treatment and regulation of the qi mechanism.? First, the very nature of gu is to disrupt= the qi mechanism.? The traditional description of gu is that of oil mixing with fl= our.39? Basically, the toxin has seeped into and bound up with the tissues of the body.? This = can only happen when the body becomes incapable of separating pure and turbid.? In t= he weakened patient, food-borne parasites that are not fully expelled remain in the cen= tral and lower burners brewing and putrefying.? Thus, the pure is now unable to ascend , t= he most profound sign of this being the mental aberrations.? The turbid fails to be= descended and excreted properly.? The accumulation of turbidity and toxicity further aggr= avate the GI and mental symptoms.? Meanwhile, the body is unable to replenish it¡¯s postnata= l jing from food and the kidneys are thus drained of their essences. We often see our old friend dampheat associated with gu, especially if no s= trong cooling treatments have yet been applied.? It is common to treat chronic parasites = with strong cooling antimicrobials like berberine, flagyl, nystatin, capryllic acid, et= c.40? While these substances may have some role in gu therapy, according to Fruehauf, they do= not address the deep penetration of the toxin outside the GI tract nor do they restore = the qi mechanism in any way.? Treating dampheat makes sense at this stage, but sta= ndard dampheat treatments will not work on gu patients.?? So while herbs like lon= icera, forsythia, sophora and artemisia qing hao are used to clear dampheat? toxin, they must= be combined with the penetrating herbs like zi su ye.? So like most of our other approa= ches, dampheat and the qi mechanism are at the core of this pathology and the therapeutic = approach described in ancient texts implicitly recognizes this in formula design. Fruehauf discusses two basic gu patterns.? The first is more of the damphea= t pattern we have been discussing so far.? The recommended formula is called su he tang = and was originally recorded in Zhi Gu Xin Fang (New Methods for Gu Treatment, Lu Sh= unde, Qing Dynasty).? Since this formula also includes cooling moistening herbs and mi= ld yin tonics like sheng di, xuan shen, huang jing and bai he, it is as much of an homage= to zhu dan xi as li dong yuan, perhaps.? Remember, it was zhu who focused on the enduring= damage to yin fluids that was caused by dampheat, which itself arose due to qi mechan= ism disruption.? There seems to be something counterintuitive about choosing su= ch herbs in a bloated digestive condition, yet Fruehauf puts great emphasis on herbs like= sheng di, xuan shen, huang jing and bai he in this condition, as well as qi lifting tonics= like huang qi. Bob Flaws has pointed out that zhu dan xi actually wrote about gu in his se= minal Ge Zhi Yu Lun.41? The chapter in question is titled " Drum Distension " (chinese: gu zh= ang).? While the gu that means drum is a different character than the gu that means " worm " , = the worm-gu is often substituted for the drum-gu in the term gu zhang.? This is because= drum distension is often related to gu poison.? Drum distension is a severe form= of abdominal pain.? According to Wiseman in his Practical Dictionary of TCM, drum disten= sion is almost always related to liver spleen disharmony.? It is often caused by alcoholis= m, as well as gu poison.? According to both Flaws and Fruehauf,42 Zhu appears to state that = drum distension is essentially synonymous with gu-worm distension. However, Zhu's indicated formulae focus on supplementing deficiency, rather= than attacking gu poison directly.? While there is definitely similarity between= Zhu's herb selection and that of Fruehauf, the absence of penetrating wind medicinals = and anti gu toxin clearing herbs is notable.? Like Fruehauf, Zhu makes the point that g= u is a severe deficiency condition and treats accordingly.? Yet the absence of herbs that= directly attack worms leads me to believe that Zhu was using the term gu-worm in a more gen= eral sense of poison penetrating the system, yet not involving parasites.? Zhu also us= es Ginseng, which Fruehauf has declared a prohibited herb in gu syndrome, a point Flaws= disputes.43? Nevertheless, Zhu's explanation of the gu pathomechanism and formula select= ion is instructive for us.? He puts considerable emphasis on the qi mechanism and = dampheat, as we would now expect. In his own words, " The seven affects damage the internal, the six environmental excesses inva= de from outside, food and drink are had without restraint, and chamber taxation cau= ses vacuity. [Any of these causes may] damage spleen earth yin [and consequently,] the o= ffice of transportation and conveyance may fail to carry out its duty. Although the = stomach [still] receives grains, [the spleen] cannot transport or transform them. As a resu= lt, yang keeps on upbearing itself and yin keeps on downbearing itself, resulting in the d= isadvantageous divorce between heaven and earth. When this happens, clearness and turbidit= y are confused together and the tunnels are congested and held up. Qi transforms = into the turbid, and blood becomes stagnated with depressive heat [being generated].= When heat remains for long, qi transforms into dampness. Dampness and heat mutually e= ngender, thus giving rise to distention and fullness. This is what the classic calls= drum distention because, though hard and full, the abdomen is empty with nothing inside, [t= hus] resembling a drum. The disease is persistent, firmly fixed, and difficult t= o cure. It is also called gu. Because it is as if [one were] invaded and being eaten by worms,= therefore, [this kind of distention] is called gu. " 44 ? Fruehauf also presents a cold gu syndrome and his chosen formula, jia jian = su he tang, is very similar to variations of li dong yuan¡¯s famous bu zhong yi qi tang (m= inus the ginseng, of course).? Unlike zhu¡¯s variation, Fruehauf¡¯s does not use cooling herb= s, but actually warming and qi moving herbs at this stage, so he is obviously describing a = more classic cold condition in this case, rather than a yin fire syndrome.45? In clinic,= one may actually prescribe something more between the hot and cold type gu formula.? The net= result would probably look a lot like the formulae recommended by both Zhu dan xi = and li dong yuan for this type of condition (i.e. chronic illness rooted in vacuity wit= h concomitant heat and stasis).?? What this reinforces is that there are multiple causes of qi= mechanism disharmony and treatment varies accordingly.? In some cases, similar strate= gies may be used for diverse etiology, so it is always vital to evaluate the case caref= ully.? Gu syndrome is a difficult diagnosis to make properly.? In ancient times, it was largel= y a diagnosis of exclusion, determined by failure of other therapies.? In modern times, the = presence of parasites in a stool culture are highly indicative of gu, however the absen= ce of these pathogens does not rule out gu.? In some cases, the pathogen is gone and on= ly the poison remains. It is not surprising that gu syndrome is treated with methods that seem to = borrow from the methods of Li Dong Yuan and Zhu Dan xi.? After all, the gu specialists = culminated their theories in the late qing dynasty.? They were no doubt familiar with the wo= rks of these great masters, who lived many centuries before and were both well known in = qing times.? In addition to treating enduring yin damage with cooling herbs, gu formulae= also address dampheat without overuse of harsh bitter cooling herbs.? So, as well as usi= ng herbs like lian qiao and jin yin hua instead of ones like huang lian and huang bai, th= e inclusion of chai hu and sheng ma as additional standard ingredients surely also represe= nt the influence of Li Dong Yuan.? The formulae are notable for their inclusion of= qi movers, but the absence of herbs that either purge the bowels or disinhibit urination.?= Thus, a sophisticated variation on the treatment of yin fire emerges, as Flaws has = suggested. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 25, 2004 Todd do you have experience using the Gu principles in clinic? if yes can you post some examples with formulae used thanks alon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 25, 2004 , " Alon Marcus " <alonmarcus@w...> wrote: do you have experience using the Gu principles in clinic? if yes can you post some examples with formulae used only my observation of Heiner. My understanding is academic and I can't say for sure if this concept has any clinical utility. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 26, 2004 I've had numerous cases over the years for which the most obvious initial formulas did not work, and for which I eventually got results using anti-Parasitic, clearing Damp Heat herbs, and anti-Toxin herbs in combination with whatever else was happening - Blood Stasis is certainly common in many of these complex illnesses. I've observed among my own students that Blood Stasis is one of the most frequently underestimated syndromes. Many of the standard reference texts list as indications for Blood Stasis as purple tongue, and that grayish tongue is more Qi-Stagnation, but in my own practice, I've learned to modify this distinction to be more flexible and fuzzy. I see a lot of cases that respond well to Blood invigorating herbs in combination with tonics and heat clearing herbs, for which the indications of Blood Stagnation are subtle, such as dusky-gray tongue tissue and slightly choppy pulses. Choppy quality in the pulse is also a feature that seems to be one of the more difficult qualities for students to pick up. Distention and distortions of the sublingual veins are also a useful indicator. As for the ability of surface-relieving herbs in large doses to use as penetrators, I've only seen hints of this in the standard TCM literature, so's article was interesting to me. I have used large doses of fresh ginger and cinnamon twigs in combination with anti-parasitic herbs plus whatever else is indicated (Blood-invigorators, tonics, etc.) as these herbs in combination seem to speed up the results in Gu-type cases. And Todd's comments that surface relieving herbs in large doses can penetrate deeper regions of the body make sense to me. I've used large doses of both fresh ginger and cinnamon in this manner (up to 5x the standard daily dose) - for short periods of time, as in intermittent " blasts " , as this can be somewhat irritating if used without frequent breaks. I've also used large doses of Rx Ledebouriella (5x standard daily dose) for heavy metal toxicity, including arsenic, and I wonder how many Gu-type syndromes overlap with at least a component of heavy metal toxicity - insomnia and other CNS symptoms, weakened Protective Qi, digestive complaints are common to many types of heavy metal toxicity. However, in spite of how interesting the ancient TCM literature on " Gu " may be from a historical perspective, why not take the bull by the horns and recognize that what this implies is that microbial/parasitic influences on chronic diseases may be more significant that is usually admitted in current TCM thinking, and take advantage of the modern medical literature on infectious diseases? " Gu " is a very general term, which is not too helpful in doing an assessment and deciding what herbs to use. There are thousands of types of Gu, and that is where the microbiology and clinical pathology help out, plus a knowledge of the specific anti-microbial, anti-parasitic actions of herbs. ---Roger Wicke, PhD, TCM Clinical Herbalist contact: www.rmhiherbal.org/contact/ Rocky Mountain Herbal Institute, Hot Springs, Montana USA Clinical herbology training programs - www.rmhiherbal.org > " " < >Re: Gu Syndrome > > , " Alon Marcus " <alonmarcus@w...> wrote: > do you have experience using the Gu principles in clinic? if yes can you post some >examples with formulae used > > >only my observation of Heiner. My understanding is academic and I can't say for sure if >this concept has any clinical utility. > >Todd ---Roger Wicke, PhD, TCM Clinical Herbalist contact: www.rmhiherbal.org/contact/ Rocky Mountain Herbal Institute, Hot Springs, Montana USA Clinical herbology training programs - www.rmhiherbal.org Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 26, 2004 This is a very interesting discussion, and I think it mixes well with the lingering pathogen discussion. Roger--are there specific anti-paracitic herbs that you have found most useful? Can you give a few examples? I have a patient who is an alcoholic with drum distension in his abdomen. He is a very wise and clear-minded man except when he gets to talking about his paranoid delusions! I wonder if there are specific types of anti-paracitic herbs that are especially useful with alcohoics. Laura , rw2@r... wrote: > I've had numerous cases over the years for which the most obvious initial formulas did not work, and for which I eventually got results using anti-Parasitic, clearing Damp Heat herbs, and anti-Toxin herbs in combination with whatever else was happening - Blood Stasis is certainly common in many of these complex illnesses. I've observed among my own students that Blood Stasis is one of the most frequently underestimated syndromes. Many of the standard reference texts list as indications for Blood Stasis as purple tongue, and that grayish tongue is more Qi-Stagnation, but in my own practice, I've learned to modify this distinction to be more flexible and fuzzy. I see a lot of cases that respond well to Blood invigorating herbs in combination with tonics and heat clearing herbs, for which the indications of Blood Stagnation are subtle, such as dusky-gray tongue tissue and slightly choppy pulses. Choppy quality in the pulse is also a feature that seems to be one of the more difficult qualities for students to pick up. Distention and distortions of the sublingual veins are also a useful indicator. > > As for the ability of surface-relieving herbs in large doses to use as penetrators, I've only seen hints of this in the standard TCM literature, so Todd's article was interesting to me. I have used large doses of fresh ginger and cinnamon twigs in combination with anti-parasitic herbs plus whatever else is indicated (Blood- invigorators, tonics, etc.) as these herbs in combination seem to speed up the results in Gu-type cases. And Todd's comments that surface relieving herbs in large doses can penetrate deeper regions of the body make sense to me. I've used large doses of both fresh ginger and cinnamon in this manner (up to 5x the standard daily dose) - for short periods of time, as in intermittent " blasts " , as this can be somewhat irritating if used without frequent breaks. I've also used large doses of Rx Ledebouriella (5x standard daily dose) for heavy metal toxicity, including arsenic, and I wonder how many Gu- type syndromes overlap with at least a component of heavy metal toxicity - insomnia and other CNS symptoms, weakened Protective Qi, digestive complaints are common to many types of heavy metal toxicity. > > However, in spite of how interesting the ancient TCM literature on " Gu " may be from a historical perspective, why not take the bull by the horns and recognize that what this implies is that microbial/parasitic influences on chronic diseases may be more significant that is usually admitted in current TCM thinking, and take advantage of the modern medical literature on infectious diseases? " Gu " is a very general term, which is not too helpful in doing an assessment and deciding what herbs to use. There are thousands of types of Gu, and that is where the microbiology and clinical pathology help out, plus a knowledge of the specific anti- microbial, anti-parasitic actions of herbs. > > ---Roger Wicke, PhD, TCM Clinical Herbalist > contact: www.rmhiherbal.org/contact/ > Rocky Mountain Herbal Institute, Hot Springs, Montana USA > Clinical herbology training programs - www.rmhiherbal.org > > > > > " " > >Re: Gu Syndrome > > > > , " Alon Marcus " <alonmarcus@w...> wrote: > > do you have experience using the Gu principles in clinic? if yes can you post some > >examples with formulae used > > > > > >only my observation of Heiner. My understanding is academic and I can't say for sure if > >this concept has any clinical utility. > > > >Todd > > ---Roger Wicke, PhD, TCM Clinical Herbalist > contact: www.rmhiherbal.org/contact/ > Rocky Mountain Herbal Institute, Hot Springs, Montana USA > Clinical herbology training programs - www.rmhiherbal.org Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 30, 2004 > > rw2 [rw2] > Sunday, September 26, 2004 11:51 AM > > Re: Gu Syndrome > > I've had numerous cases over the years for which the most obvious initial > formulas did not work, and for which I eventually got results using anti- > Parasitic, clearing Damp Heat herbs, and anti-Toxin herbs in combination > with whatever else was happening - Blood Stasis is certainly common in > many of these complex illnesses. I've observed among my own students that > Blood Stasis is one of the most frequently underestimated syndromes. Many > of the standard reference texts list as indications for Blood Stasis as > purple tongue, and that grayish tongue is more Qi-Stagnation, but in my > own practice, I've learned to modify this distinction to be more flexible > and fuzzy. I see a lot of cases that respond well to Blood invigorating > herbs in combination with tonics and heat clearing herbs, for which the > indications of Blood Stagnation are subtle, such as dusky-gray tongue > tissue and slightly choppy pulses. Choppy quality in the pulse is also a > feature that seems to be one of the more difficult qualities for students > to pick up. Distention and distortions of the sublingual veins are also a > useful indicator. [Jason] I agree and I think there is much confusion around the choppy pulse. I think it was Al stone that a few months ago posted a long discussion on this. Basically he was describing the 3 types of choppiness and how various authors interpreted it (feeling). I definitely see all three types of choppiness in the clinic and am still unclear what each of the choppiness means ( I don't think Al's post went into this). Does anyone differentiate the three, attributing a different meaning to i.e. a choppy (roughness) vs. choppy (strength) etc.? - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 30, 2004 > > rw2 [rw2] I've also used large > doses of Rx Ledebouriella (5x standard daily dose) for heavy metal > toxicity, including arsenic, and I wonder how many Gu-type syndromes > overlap with at least a component of heavy metal toxicity - insomnia and > other CNS symptoms, weakened Protective Qi, digestive complaints are > common to many types of heavy metal toxicity. [Jason] Maybe you have mentioned this before, but how are 'you' dx the H.M. toxicity? Just curious... - > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 30, 2004 To detect a choppy pulse, one must essentially store an image of the way each pulse beat feels and then compare it with the next pulse beat. (Mathematically this is called auto-correlation.) It means that each pulse beat will have a slightly different pulse pressure profile in time. The trickiest aspect of this is to detect choppiness in a pulse that is otherwise smooth in profile - a slippery-choppy pulse is one example. We use video simulation software to demonstrate this to our students, and it helps greatly. A picture is worth a thousand words. See the sequence of 5 slides starting at: http://www.rmhiherbal.org/tchs-cd/pu-01.html The sequence of slides shown above illustrates several different complex pulse types. (Keep in mind that these are snapshots of moving images.) In a slippery-choppy pulse, the pulse pressure profile will not have the classical quality of " knife scraping bamboo " , but the shape does change, and this can include variations in strength, which is one manifestation of choppiness. ---Roger Wicke, PhD, TCM Clinical Herbalist contact: www.rmhiherbal.org/contact/ Rocky Mountain Herbal Institute, Hot Springs, Montana USA Clinical herbology training programs - www.rmhiherbal.org > Thu, 30 Sep 2004 09:01:57 -0600 > " " >RE: Re: Gu Syndrome > >I agree and I think there is much confusion around the choppy pulse. I >think it was Al stone that a few months ago posted a long discussion on >this. Basically he was describing the 3 types of choppiness and how various >authors interpreted it (feeling). I definitely see all three types of >choppiness in the clinic and am still unclear what each of the choppiness >means ( I don't think Al's post went into this). Does anyone differentiate >the three, attributing a different meaning to i.e. a choppy (roughness) vs. >choppy (strength) etc.? > >- ---Roger Wicke, PhD, TCM Clinical Herbalist contact: www.rmhiherbal.org/contact/ Rocky Mountain Herbal Institute, Hot Springs, Montana USA Clinical herbology training programs - www.rmhiherbal.org Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
