Astrology is a science of all sciences

[Guest guest]

 

 

 

In almost all civilizations and developed cultures the science of foretelling future was cultivated, be it Sumer, Egypt, Babylone, Indus, China or Greece. But never so deep and so mathematically correct this science was developed in any other country except India. Our Rishis and Acharyas were at the top in many a faculty of science, like Medicine, Physics, Chemistry, Astronomy and Astrology. Since times immemorial man wondered about the moving and comparatively steady objects, twinkling in the sky by night; from this he started calculating the speed and exact positions of the planets, various zodiacs and constellations; from this Astrology developed. The greatness of our sages lies in the fact that they studied it so deep that they could ascertain the effect of the starts even on non-living substances. Not only this but research goes on in this science from the Vedic Age to this date. The basic idea underlying this research was to serve the community at large. Atharva-ved depicts Jyotish-Astrology- as the fourth organ of Vedas out of six. It is called Netra (eye) of the community. According to the Vedas the movement and the Drashti Avm Vedh (aspects and conjunctions) of the stars do affect not only the humanity, but the forces of nature even like rains, cold, heat etc. In the "Brahmanas" (treaties on Vedas), too, Asgtrology is given much importance. The Narad-Sanatkumar dialogue in the Chhandogya section of Sam Brahmana, Astrology is given due preference out of 14 'Vidyas'. The Taiteraiya Brahaman gives details of the movement of Surya, Prithvi and hours, the days and nights, ("break" and "fall"). You will be surprised to note that even the Anushasan Parva of Mahabharat gives complete list of Constellations and guides about the alms to be given during the span of each and every Nakshatras (Constellations). In Bhishma Parva the results of death in the Uttarayana and Dakshinayana are depicted in details (so Bhishma chose to die in Uttarayana). The Udyog Parva details the "Ashubh Yoga"due to certain planets a constellations. According to the Indian mythology there are 18 Acharya of Astrology. (1) Surya (2) Brahma (3) Vyas (4) Atri (5) Parasar (6) Kashyap (7) Vashishtha (8) Narad (9) Garga (10) Marichi (11) Muni (12) Angiras (13) Lomash (14) Paulish (15) Chyavan (16) Yavan (17) Manu (18) ShaunakLord Surya gave this Shastra first of all to Brahma, the creator, who taught this science to Garga, Badrayan(vyas), Angiras etc. Thus the science went on developing and to this date it has developed so far that it can be called an ocean. In fact Astrology is the fundamental science of all the sciences. It touches every aspect of one's life, be it health, family, real estate, money, legal tangle, romance, marital relations, luck, business, industry, profession or service, even the death, too, can be predicted from this. (Of course it is generally forbidden to predict one's death forthwith.. An astrologer can say that the period is not good for health or to be cautious about accidents, etc.) The modern science, too, knows about the influence of planets. The tide and the ebb are results of certain positions of the Sun and the Moon. Likewise the planets can affect on our blood circulation, too. Weak Moon makes one's mind weak or unstable or one is apt to be weak physically. The Sun and the Moon does not affect human beings only, but they affect the vegetation also. Generally flowers blossom by the morning but the white Lily blossom by night, the red or pink lotus blossom on the day break. Even the animals, too, have profound effect of the Sun and the Moon. The ires of cat changes according to the phases of Moon. They affect even the sexual impulses not only in the human beings but also amongst the animals. The effect of the planets is more sharp on the animals, as they come to know about the impeding danger very soon. Before an earthquake, the serpants come out of their bidings, so do other animals. The birds, too, fly here and there. During the eclipse of the Sun the birds go into slumber. Who is not interested in knowing one's future ? Even the scientists try to enter into the future. We know about the past and present. But can't we know about the future ? There should be some way to know it. The scientists call it futurology. This science is being developed since a couple of decades and astrology, too, has got a footage in the prime place in futurology. Astrology gives much weightage to the stars. Astrology is divided into 3 parts. "Sidhdhant" (Principles), "Sanhita" (Compilation) and "Hora" Astrology (Jyotish ) is called the principal organ of the Vedas, too. Jyotish means Jyoti + Ish (Ishasya Jyotih) the light of the God. This has references in the Vedas, Brahmanas (treaties on the vedas), Panini Sutras, Puranas etc. Vedang Jyotish, an ancient book on astrology, gives much of details regarding this science. Vedang means organ of the vedas ( Vedanam Angam), so Jyotish is not the Veda itself, but a very important part of the Vedas.(Surya Sindhdhant) an authentic book on Astronomy by Bhaskaracharya I, give much prominence to Astrology also. It details almost all the principles of Astrology based on Astronomy. Now it is a known fact that in ancient times, Hindus excelled in astronomy as well as astrology. The "Siddhant Ganit" gives detailed calculations about the years, months and days passed by till the date of its writing. Likewise the "Ayan" (solastics), Seasons, movements of the planets, the solar and lunar eclipses, date ( Tithi ), Constellations, Yoga , karan or the tangential positions etc. are written with great exactness. Even the 'Vedh-Yantras' (sextants and telescopes), too might have been used by the astronomers of the ancient age in India. And had deep knowledge about Khagol (Astronomy). The other two parts of Astrology, Hora avm Sanhita deal with the prediction aspect of Astrology. The word Hora has been coined from "Ahoratra" according to Varahmihir ( "Ho" from Aho and Ra from Ratra ). As per HoraShastra one's life chart is drawn, as per the positions of various planets and zodiacs (Rashi). The planets are placed in various rashies as they are there at the time of one's birth. This chart or map of one's life is variously called 'JanmaLagna', 'Janmagam' or JanmKundali. Predictions are based on this. In the Sidhdhant part, predictions regarding the rains, storms, earthquakes, comets, asteroids, eclipses, "VastuShastra", subsoil water. Yagnas and the Muhurtas (good and bad omens), gems, effect of planets and constellations on nations, twitching of skin on parts of bodies, ( Anga - Sfuran )etc. are given with such great exactness that one gets amazed. All these they have given for the benefit of the people at large. Bha = light Ratam Iti BharatamThe country has never seen a dark age like witnessed by Europe or other countries of Asia and Africa (China can be an exception). The ancient sages and scholars of India had constructed various "Yantras" to study Astrology and framed basic yet infallible principles of it like division of the sky in 12 Rashies, (Zodiacs) and 27 Nakshatras, (Constellations). Also the Indian Astrologers have given the relative speeds of the planets and satellites. Not only this but the speed has been divided into Kala, Vikala etc. which today be calculated on the basis of hours, minutes and seconds. So, one must be proficient in mathematics to give correct predictions. India is proud for having great astronomers like Arya bhatta, Varah Mihir, Bhrama Gupta, Munjal, Bhatotpal, Shatanand, Bhaskaracharya I & II. They were basically great astronomers, but have also given great treaties on Astrology and have served the states in which they were given the chair of "Astrologer Royal" ( Raj Jyotishi ) and through the states they served the community at large, too. Takshshila, Kashi, Ujjaini, Tanjaur, and Nalanda were the great Vidhyapithas, where astronomy and astrology were taught. Here the Vedhshalas (observatories) flourished. The Ravan Samhita, Pulatsya Samhita, Jambali Samhita, Indra Samhita, Surya Samhita, Arun Samhita, Jaimini Samhita, Rudra Samhita are authentic works on astrology. Thus astrology is imbedded thorough and thorough in our lives. Even a lay man may be, out of curiousity only, is interested in this science. This gives rise to religiousness. Most of the people take and follow advice of Jyotishi still many a people are apt to belittle this great science as superstition and bigotary. They never miss an opportunity to degrade this science, when a prediction goes haywire. But nobody blames the medical science, if an operation fails or nobody blames the judiciary, if he/she losses a suite. So why blames astrologers and especially astrology for prediction which may not prove 100% correct ? This is a blasphemy. As the science has been developed by great astronomers and astrologers of the past. But the most in human aggressions by the foriegners and our ignorance of this valuable knowledge, we have lost many more about this science. By this reason create a doubt on this science. Not only this the pseudo-astrologers,and money minded astrologers who misguide the people and devalued astrology. But Astrology is excellent science. So till now a day people have not only trust but confidence too on Astrology. So many ctriticism developed in front of Astrology, inspite of this astrology maintained its own existence. The pseudo-astrologers of our age have almost completed this viscious circle. More so those who have real knowledge, are mostly greedy who almost squeeze their clients. This has led to further decline. All other sciences like, physics, mathematics, chemistry, medical science, sociology, economics deal with one subject only, but astrology deals with almost all the faculties. So Astrology is not only a science, but a science of all sciences.

[Guest guest]

Shri Prashanth Nairji,

Namaskar!

 

<......But never so deep and so mathematically correct this

science (astrology)was developed in any other country except India.>

 

To the best of my knowledge, there is no indigenous work of planetary

astronomy vis-a-vis Mesha etc. Rashis prior to the Surya Sidhana of

Maya the mlechha! And it is an open secret by now that Maya was a

Greek astrologer and the Surya Sidhanta is not a work of " Surya

Bhagwan " as claimed by Maya, but an extremely monstrous astronomical

work which is anything but accurate!

You can check the results for yourself about differences in mean

planetary longitudes of the SS vis-a-vis modern astronomy through

Mahesh program at HinduCalendar forum.

 

As against this lack of interest in planetary knowledge in ancient

India there are clay tablets of about 7th millenium BCE from

Babylonia referring to planets and even Mesha etc. rashis!

 

<.....from this he started calculating the speed and exact

positions of the planets, various zodiacs and constellations; from

this Astrology developed.>

 

Zodiac is just one! there cannot be more than one zodiacs

astronomically! Similarly, it is impossible to calculate the speed

of various constellations, since every star (components of a

constellation!) has a speed of its own! We cannot calculate " mean

average " of the sum-total of varying speeds of all the stars in a

constellatio and then ascribe that " Average speed " to a

constellation! That is an impossible task!

 

Obviously, astrology is anything but scietnific! It is all a wishful

thinking directly related to human weakness which had been exploited

by Babylonia to the hilt! Vedic Seers were actually immune to such

weakness, as will be evident from all the Vedas, where we are

strictly advised to believe in " Purusharth " .

 

The so called Vedic works of astrology like Atharva Veda Parishishta

and Atharva Jyotisha are works of post Atharva-Veda era, though prior

to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mleccha, since we find Mesha etc.

Rashis in the SS for the first time.

 

The astrological principles adumbeated in those works of post Atharva-

Veda eta are more sinister than even Brihat Samhita! If we go by the

dictates of these so called " jyotisha-vedas " , you can rest assured

that we as Hindus will be annihilated sooner than later as a Hindu

community completely and we do not need any Lashkare-Tayeba to do

that!

 

That the Vedic seers made exact caluculations of planets is also a

wishful thinking since judging from the Vedanga Jyotisha of Acharya

Lagadha (14th century BCE) or even the Parashara Sidhanta etc. there

is nothing to show that the Vedic Seers could calculate planetary

longitudes vis-a-vis Kritika etc. nakshatras----leave alone Mesha

etc. rashis, which were non-existent then in Inia---correctly! Even

about the nakshatra divisions, there is no uniform opinion since in

ancient India also, there were unequal nakshatra divisions which were

later " converted " into 27 equal divisions for computational ease!

 

The million dollar question that remains unanswered is as to even if

we presume that the real Vamadevas were astro-buffs, how on earth did

they calculate their horoscopes, with the miserably incorrect

astronomical parameters to calculate even mean longitudes of the sun

and the moon, as is evident from the Vedanga Jyotisha of Lagadha

which has taken 366 days as the duraton of a year!

Then again, how on earth were birth times recorded in ancient India

since we did not have any other " cloks " except ghati yantra to do

that! And do you think that every house-hold had such a yantra to

note the time of birth of every human being? Or do you mean to say

that every " Ayah " had such a ghati yantra with her while attending to

her " clients " at the time of delivery! And again, when even

electronic watches of today do not keep their pace with Atomic Time,

how do you suppose that we could do so in ancient India!

 

IT IS VERY EASY TO INDULGE IN WISHFUL THINKING BUT WE CANNOT OVERLOOK

THE FACT THAT TILL ABOUT 1960, EVEN MODERN ASTRONOMERS WERE UNAWARE

OF DELTA TIME! AND THAT TIME DIFFERENCE COULD BE AS MANY AS SEVEN

DAYS IN ABOUT 10000 BCE! In 3102 BCE, the presumed start of Kali

Era, it was about 21 hours as per " almighty " Lahiri's Tables of the

Sun itself!

As such, by such grandiloquent attitudes, we are actually making a

laughing stock of ourselves in the eyes of the whole world, all just

to authenticate our wrong presumptions that the real Vamadevas were

astro-buffs!

 

 

<Atharva-ved depicts Jyotish-Astrology- as the fourth organ of

Vedas out of six. It is called Netra (eye) of the community. According

to the Vedas the movement and the Drashti Avm Vedh (aspects and

conjunctions) of the stars do affect not only the humanity, but the

forces of nature even like rains, cold, heat etc.>

 

Jyotisha as Netra of the Vedas is in the sense of astronomy---that

also for finding suitable tithi, nakshatra etc. for Vedic rituals.

This has been made clear in the most ancient indigenous astronomical

work viz. the Vedanga Jyotisha (14th century BCE)and also the last

indigenous sidhanta viz. the Sidhanta Shiromani of Bhakara-II!

 

<You will be surprised to note that even the Anushasan Parva of

Mahabharat gives complete list of Constellations and guides about the

alms to be given during the span of each and every Nakshatras

(Constellations). In Bhishma Parva the results of death in the

Uttarayana and Dakshinayana are depicted in details (so Bhishma chose

to die in Uttarayana).>

 

It is all astronomy vis-a-vis muhurtas---as per the VJ of Lagadhaand

not predictive astrology!

 

<The Udyog Parva details the " Ashubh Yoga " due to certain planets a

constellations.>

 

We have yet to find any references to any plaentary conbinations in

the birthcharts of any prominent person whether Yudishthira or even

Duryadhana --- leave alone Bhagwan Krishna---in the Mbh or any other

Purana! The Mbh. has quite a few references to planetary movements

vis-a-vis nakshatras but there is no guarantee that they are not

later interploations! Even if we presume them to be " oroginal " , how

on earth were those movements calculated since we do not find any

references to any works in any of the Puranas or the Mbh etc. which

talk of calculating plaentary longitudes vis-a-vis krittika

etc.nakshatras!

 

In the same Mbh. Bhishma Pitamaha has come down heavily on naksahtra-

soochis (who are known as " Vedic astrologers " thee days!) and has

advised that a king must treat them as chandalas even if they are

brahmins! As such, it is all a wishful thinking---a very sinister

thinking at that---to fire " astrological guns " from the shoulders of

the Atharva Veda or the Mbh. etc.

 

We have been taken in by this ploy by the Greeks to subjugagte us to

predictive gimmicks so that we became more fatalists than anything

else, and the net result has been that we are celebrating Uttarayna --

the same Uttarayana in which Bhishma shed his mortal coil---not on

the shortest day of the year but on a day as " prescribed "

by " almighty Lahiri " and Lahiriwalas---thanks to the uniring efforts

of " Vedic astrologers " .

 

If we really want to save the real Vedic dharma, we have to treat

predictive astrology not as a science or as a branch of the Vedas but

as really the greatest fraud on the Vedas!

My humble request to all Hindus, therefore, is that in their over-

zealous urge to establish the " rule " of pedictive gimmicks as

unqeustioned, they must at least spare the real Vamadevas!

With regards,

A K Kaul

 

 

 

 

, " prashanthnair999 "

<prashanthnair999 wrote:

>

>

> In almost all civilizations and developed cultures the science of

> foretelling future was cultivated, be it Sumer, Egypt, Babylone,

Indus,

> China or Greece. But never so deep and so mathematically correct

this

> science was developed in any other country except India. Our Rishis

and

> Acharyas were at the top in many a faculty of science, like

Medicine,

> Physics, Chemistry, Astronomy and Astrology. Since times immemorial

man

> wondered about the moving and comparatively steady objects,

twinkling in

> the sky by night; from this he started calculating the speed and

exact

> positions of the planets, various zodiacs and constellations; from

this

> Astrology developed.

>

> The greatness of our sages lies in the fact that they studied it so

deep

> that they could ascertain the effect of the starts even on non-

living

> substances. Not only this but research goes on in this science from

the

> Vedic Age to this date.

>

> The basic idea underlying this research was to serve the community

at

> large. Atharva-ved depicts Jyotish-Astrology- as the fourth organ of

> Vedas out of six. It is called Netra (eye) of the community.

According

> to the Vedas the movement and the Drashti Avm Vedh (aspects and

> conjunctions) of the stars do affect not only the humanity, but the

> forces of nature even like rains, cold, heat etc.

>

> In the " Brahmanas " (treaties on Vedas), too, Asgtrology is given

much

> importance. The Narad-Sanatkumar dialogue in the Chhandogya section

of

> Sam Brahmana, Astrology is given due preference out of 14 'Vidyas'.

The

> Taiteraiya Brahaman gives details of the movement of Surya, Prithvi

and

> hours, the days and nights, ( " break " and " fall " ). You will be

surprised

> to note that even the Anushasan Parva of Mahabharat gives complete

list

> of Constellations and guides about the alms to be given during the

span

> of each and every Nakshatras (Constellations). In Bhishma Parva the

> results of death in the Uttarayana and Dakshinayana are depicted in

> details (so Bhishma chose to die in Uttarayana). The Udyog Parva

details

> the " Ashubh Yoga " due to certain planets a constellations.

>

> According to the Indian mythology there are 18 Acharya of Astrology.

>

> (1) Surya (2) Brahma (3) Vyas (4) Atri (5) Parasar (6) Kashyap (7)

> Vashishtha (8) Narad (9) Garga (10) Marichi (11) Muni (12) Angiras

(13)

> Lomash (14) Paulish (15) Chyavan (16) Yavan (17) Manu (18) Shaunak

>

> Lord Surya gave this Shastra first of all to Brahma, the creator,

who

> taught this science to Garga, Badrayan(vyas), Angiras etc. Thus the

> science went on developing and to this date it has developed so far

that

> it can be called an ocean.

>

> In fact Astrology is the fundamental science of all the sciences. It

> touches every aspect of one's life, be it health, family, real

estate,

> money, legal tangle, romance, marital relations, luck, business,

> industry, profession or service, even the death, too, can be

predicted

> from this. (Of course it is generally forbidden to predict one's

death

> forthwith.. An astrologer can say that the period is not good for

health

> or to be cautious about accidents, etc.)

>

> The modern science, too, knows about the influence of planets. The

tide

> and the ebb are results of certain positions of the Sun and the

Moon.

> Likewise the planets can affect on our blood circulation, too. Weak

Moon

> makes one's mind weak or unstable or one is apt to be weak

physically.

> The Sun and the Moon does not affect human beings only, but they

affect

> the vegetation also. Generally flowers blossom by the morning but

the

> white Lily blossom by night, the red or pink lotus blossom on the

day

> break.

>

> Even the animals, too, have profound effect of the Sun and the

Moon. The

> ires of cat changes according to the phases of Moon. They affect

even

> the sexual impulses not only in the human beings but also amongst

the

> animals. The effect of the planets is more sharp on the animals, as

they

> come to know about the impeding danger very soon. Before an

earthquake,

> the serpants come out of their bidings, so do other animals. The

birds,

> too, fly here and there. During the eclipse of the Sun the birds go

into

> slumber.

>

> Who is not interested in knowing one's future ? Even the scientists

try

> to enter into the future. We know about the past and present. But

can't

> we know about the future ? There should be some way to know it. The

> scientists call it futurology. This science is being developed

since a

> couple of decades and astrology, too, has got a footage in the prime

> place in futurology. Astrology gives much weightage to the stars.

>

> Astrology is divided into 3 parts. " Sidhdhant "

(Principles), " Sanhita "

> (Compilation) and " Hora " Astrology (Jyotish ) is called the

principal

> organ of the Vedas, too. Jyotish means Jyoti + Ish (Ishasya Jyotih)

the

> light of the God. This has references in the Vedas, Brahmanas

(treaties

> on the vedas), Panini Sutras, Puranas etc. Vedang Jyotish, an

ancient

> book on astrology, gives much of details regarding this science.

Vedang

> means organ of the vedas ( Vedanam Angam), so Jyotish is not the

Veda

> itself, but a very important part of the Vedas.(Surya Sindhdhant) an

> authentic book on Astronomy by Bhaskaracharya I, give much

prominence to

> Astrology also. It details almost all the principles of Astrology

based

> on Astronomy. Now it is a known fact that in ancient times, Hindus

> excelled in astronomy as well as astrology. The " Siddhant Ganit "

gives

> detailed calculations about the years, months and days passed by

till

> the date of its writing. Likewise the " Ayan " (solastics), Seasons,

> movements of the planets, the solar and lunar eclipses, date (

Tithi ),

> Constellations, Yoga , karan or the tangential positions etc. are

> written with great exactness. Even the 'Vedh-Yantras' (sextants and

> telescopes), too might have been used by the astronomers of the

ancient

> age in India. And had deep knowledge about Khagol (Astronomy).

>

> The other two parts of Astrology, Hora avm Sanhita deal with the

> prediction aspect of Astrology. The word Hora has been coined from

> " Ahoratra " according to Varahmihir ( " Ho " from Aho and Ra from

Ratra ).

> As per HoraShastra one's life chart is drawn, as per the positions

of

> various planets and zodiacs (Rashi). The planets are placed in

various

> rashies as they are there at the time of one's birth. This chart or

map

> of one's life is variously called 'JanmaLagna', 'Janmagam' or

> JanmKundali. Predictions are based on this.

>

> In the Sidhdhant part, predictions regarding the rains, storms,

> earthquakes, comets, asteroids, eclipses, " VastuShastra " , subsoil

water.

> Yagnas and the Muhurtas (good and bad omens), gems, effect of

planets

> and constellations on nations, twitching of skin on parts of

bodies, (

> Anga - Sfuran )etc. are given with such great exactness that one

gets

> amazed. All these they have given for the benefit of the people at

> large.

>

> Bha = light Ratam Iti Bharatam

>

> The country has never seen a dark age like witnessed by Europe or

other

> countries of Asia and Africa (China can be an exception). The

ancient

> sages and scholars of India had constructed various " Yantras " to

study

> Astrology and framed basic yet infallible principles of it like

division

> of the sky in 12 Rashies, (Zodiacs) and 27 Nakshatras,

(Constellations).

> Also the Indian Astrologers have given the relative speeds of the

> planets and satellites. Not only this but the speed has been divided

> into Kala, Vikala etc. which today be calculated on the basis of

hours,

> minutes and seconds. So, one must be proficient in mathematics to

give

> correct predictions.

>

> India is proud for having great astronomers like Arya bhatta, Varah

> Mihir, Bhrama Gupta, Munjal, Bhatotpal, Shatanand, Bhaskaracharya I

&

> II. They were basically great astronomers, but have also given great

> treaties on Astrology and have served the states in which they were

> given the chair of " Astrologer Royal " ( Raj Jyotishi ) and through

the

> states they served the community at large, too. Takshshila, Kashi,

> Ujjaini, Tanjaur, and Nalanda were the great Vidhyapithas, where

> astronomy and astrology were taught. Here the Vedhshalas

(observatories)

> flourished. The Ravan Samhita, Pulatsya Samhita, Jambali Samhita,

Indra

> Samhita, Surya Samhita, Arun Samhita, Jaimini Samhita, Rudra

Samhita are

> authentic works on astrology.

>

> Thus astrology is imbedded thorough and thorough in our lives. Even

a

> lay man may be, out of curiousity only, is interested in this

science.

> This gives rise to religiousness. Most of the people take and follow

> advice of Jyotishi still many a people are apt to belittle this

great

> science as superstition and bigotary. They never miss an

opportunity to

> degrade this science, when a prediction goes haywire. But nobody

blames

> the medical science, if an operation fails or nobody blames the

> judiciary, if he/she losses a suite. So why blames astrologers and

> especially astrology for prediction which may not prove 100%

correct ?

>

> This is a blasphemy. As the science has been developed by great

> astronomers and astrologers of the past. But the most in human

> aggressions by the foriegners and our ignorance of this valuable

> knowledge, we have lost many more about this science. By this reason

> create a doubt on this science. Not only this the pseudo-

astrologers,and

> money minded astrologers who misguide the people and devalued

astrology.

> But Astrology is excellent science. So till now a day people have

not

> only trust but confidence too on Astrology. So many ctriticism

developed

> in front of Astrology, inspite of this astrology maintained its own

> existence.

>

> The pseudo-astrologers of our age have almost completed this

viscious

> circle. More so those who have real knowledge, are mostly greedy who

> almost squeeze their clients. This has led to further decline. All

other

> sciences like, physics, mathematics, chemistry, medical science,

> sociology, economics deal with one subject only, but astrology deals

> with almost all the faculties.

>

> So Astrology is not only a science, but a science of all sciences.

>

[Guest guest]

respected Kaul ji

 

namaskar

With all respect to u and ur knowledge i hav simple request ,let us b more open and not so rigid on unprooved or yet to b prooved beyond doubt matters because we r now looking for DNA testing even in case of our own father .because we want proof ??or we dont like to blv other wise .

i am not interested in arguements which will not lead no where

but one thing greeks were never termed as yavanas ,in that case unani medicine we shud indebted to them same is with many words in use with yavana or yunan etc even in kerala jonaka -yavana we call for muslims so it is termed as a usage for out of caste or sphere persons

 

the words yavanahi mlecha or mlechahi yavana is used by sage garga not varhamihira ,Mihira was quoting it

i dont blv the book published day as the creation of knowledge day .If it is true if i write some books and which may make all books obselete in future and did it mean that the knowledge derived in 21 centruy ??

i dont blv with valid reasons we imported astrology but may b some interaction might hav happened ( like in todays moon probe we do many things better than US or Russia does it mean that we r better ,which they will adopt tomorrow as we will b sharing this knowledge with them )

 

also i dont blv all vedas ( knowledge ) were avilable for all ppl freely with valid reasons .even we know veda s ( 4 vedas ) edited ,so what it indicates ??its crude form we lost right ??

so its futile to see all in vedas ,wheter its is ayurveda or dhanuveda or jyothirveda or other sastras frm kama sastra to yoga sastra .as vedas r not text book for these sastas .Also we dont know how much we lost in preserving it .

Now almost all books on tantra due its secrecy is still not avilable ,may b in gupt form it is preserved i dont know .

so next time i am not interested in such futile exercises .

 

if we go by much hitlerisation of vedas communities ,like his aryanisation cocept .The communities which has no or less reference like which were tantric or naga or saiva or bhavani worshippers like ur kaul kula is also out of vedas and if u insist all shud go out of hindustan ??then where will it end ??

 

so let us not dig to that extent .

 

I am stopping here as i cannot type what ever arguemnts and proofs comes in my mind .

in india even poojas r known as AGamas ( which has came or adopted ) so is astrology ,means frm where greeks ?? what abt meluha culture ??indus culture known to out side world and which has given its impression tru out world ??what abt tantra culture ,saiva culture ?? so many indiginous forms ??

In indus valley i suppose they dont hav any books un earthted till today ,so we can assume that they r illiterates ?/right ??

 

so see this links too

 

/message/847

/message/848

 

regrds prashanth

 

 

 

, "Avtar Krishen Kaul" <jyotirved wrote:>> Shri Prashanth Nairji,> Namaskar!> > <......But never so deep and so mathematically correct this> science (astrology)was developed in any other country except India.>> > To the best of my knowledge, there is no indigenous work of planetary > astronomy vis-a-vis Mesha etc. Rashis prior to the Surya Sidhana of > Maya the mlechha! And it is an open secret by now that Maya was a > Greek astrologer and the Surya Sidhanta is not a work of "Surya > Bhagwan" as claimed by Maya, but an extremely monstrous astronomical > work which is anything but accurate!> You can check the results for yourself about differences in mean > planetary longitudes of the SS vis-a-vis modern astronomy through > Mahesh program at HinduCalendar forum. > > As against this lack of interest in planetary knowledge in ancient > India there are clay tablets of about 7th millenium BCE from > Babylonia referring to planets and even Mesha etc. rashis!> > <.....from this he started calculating the speed and exact> positions of the planets, various zodiacs and constellations; from > this Astrology developed.>> > Zodiac is just one! there cannot be more than one zodiacs > astronomically! Similarly, it is impossible to calculate the speed > of various constellations, since every star (components of a > constellation!) has a speed of its own! We cannot calculate "mean > average" of the sum-total of varying speeds of all the stars in a > constellatio and then ascribe that "Average speed" to a > constellation! That is an impossible task!> > Obviously, astrology is anything but scietnific! It is all a wishful > thinking directly related to human weakness which had been exploited > by Babylonia to the hilt! Vedic Seers were actually immune to such > weakness, as will be evident from all the Vedas, where we are > strictly advised to believe in "Purusharth". > > The so called Vedic works of astrology like Atharva Veda Parishishta > and Atharva Jyotisha are works of post Atharva-Veda era, though prior > to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mleccha, since we find Mesha etc. > Rashis in the SS for the first time.> > The astrological principles adumbeated in those works of post Atharva-> Veda eta are more sinister than even Brihat Samhita! If we go by the > dictates of these so called "jyotisha-vedas", you can rest assured > that we as Hindus will be annihilated sooner than later as a Hindu > community completely and we do not need any Lashkare-Tayeba to do > that!> > That the Vedic seers made exact caluculations of planets is also a > wishful thinking since judging from the Vedanga Jyotisha of Acharya > Lagadha (14th century BCE) or even the Parashara Sidhanta etc. there > is nothing to show that the Vedic Seers could calculate planetary > longitudes vis-a-vis Kritika etc. nakshatras----leave alone Mesha > etc. rashis, which were non-existent then in Inia---correctly! Even > about the nakshatra divisions, there is no uniform opinion since in > ancient India also, there were unequal nakshatra divisions which were > later "converted" into 27 equal divisions for computational ease!> > The million dollar question that remains unanswered is as to even if > we presume that the real Vamadevas were astro-buffs, how on earth did > they calculate their horoscopes, with the miserably incorrect > astronomical parameters to calculate even mean longitudes of the sun > and the moon, as is evident from the Vedanga Jyotisha of Lagadha > which has taken 366 days as the duraton of a year! > Then again, how on earth were birth times recorded in ancient India > since we did not have any other "cloks" except ghati yantra to do > that! And do you think that every house-hold had such a yantra to > note the time of birth of every human being? Or do you mean to say > that every "Ayah" had such a ghati yantra with her while attending to > her "clients" at the time of delivery! And again, when even > electronic watches of today do not keep their pace with Atomic Time, > how do you suppose that we could do so in ancient India!> > IT IS VERY EASY TO INDULGE IN WISHFUL THINKING BUT WE CANNOT OVERLOOK > THE FACT THAT TILL ABOUT 1960, EVEN MODERN ASTRONOMERS WERE UNAWARE > OF DELTA TIME! AND THAT TIME DIFFERENCE COULD BE AS MANY AS SEVEN > DAYS IN ABOUT 10000 BCE! In 3102 BCE, the presumed start of Kali > Era, it was about 21 hours as per "almighty" Lahiri's Tables of the > Sun itself!> As such, by such grandiloquent attitudes, we are actually making a > laughing stock of ourselves in the eyes of the whole world, all just > to authenticate our wrong presumptions that the real Vamadevas were > astro-buffs!> > > <Atharva-ved depicts Jyotish-Astrology- as the fourth organ of> Vedas out of six. It is called Netra (eye) of the community. According> to the Vedas the movement and the Drashti Avm Vedh (aspects and> conjunctions) of the stars do affect not only the humanity, but the> forces of nature even like rains, cold, heat etc.>> > Jyotisha as Netra of the Vedas is in the sense of astronomy---that > also for finding suitable tithi, nakshatra etc. for Vedic rituals. > This has been made clear in the most ancient indigenous astronomical > work viz. the Vedanga Jyotisha (14th century BCE)and also the last > indigenous sidhanta viz. the Sidhanta Shiromani of Bhakara-II!> > <You will be surprised to note that even the Anushasan Parva of > Mahabharat gives complete list of Constellations and guides about the > alms to be given during the span of each and every Nakshatras > (Constellations). In Bhishma Parva the results of death in the > Uttarayana and Dakshinayana are depicted in details (so Bhishma chose > to die in Uttarayana).>> > It is all astronomy vis-a-vis muhurtas---as per the VJ of Lagadhaand > not predictive astrology!> > <The Udyog Parva details the "Ashubh Yoga"due to certain planets a > constellations.>> > We have yet to find any references to any plaentary conbinations in > the birthcharts of any prominent person whether Yudishthira or even > Duryadhana --- leave alone Bhagwan Krishna---in the Mbh or any other > Purana! The Mbh. has quite a few references to planetary movements > vis-a-vis nakshatras but there is no guarantee that they are not > later interploations! Even if we presume them to be "oroginal", how > on earth were those movements calculated since we do not find any > references to any works in any of the Puranas or the Mbh etc. which > talk of calculating plaentary longitudes vis-a-vis krittika > etc.nakshatras!> > In the same Mbh. Bhishma Pitamaha has come down heavily on naksahtra-> soochis (who are known as "Vedic astrologers" thee days!) and has > advised that a king must treat them as chandalas even if they are > brahmins! As such, it is all a wishful thinking---a very sinister > thinking at that---to fire "astrological guns" from the shoulders of > the Atharva Veda or the Mbh. etc. > > We have been taken in by this ploy by the Greeks to subjugagte us to > predictive gimmicks so that we became more fatalists than anything > else, and the net result has been that we are celebrating Uttarayna --> the same Uttarayana in which Bhishma shed his mortal coil---not on > the shortest day of the year but on a day as "prescribed" > by "almighty Lahiri" and Lahiriwalas---thanks to the uniring efforts > of "Vedic astrologers".> > If we really want to save the real Vedic dharma, we have to treat > predictive astrology not as a science or as a branch of the Vedas but > as really the greatest fraud on the Vedas!> My humble request to all Hindus, therefore, is that in their over-> zealous urge to establish the "rule" of pedictive gimmicks as > unqeustioned, they must at least spare the real Vamadevas!> With regards,> A K Kaul> > > > > , "prashanthnair999" > prashanthnair999@ wrote:> >> > > > In almost all civilizations and developed cultures the science of> > foretelling future was cultivated, be it Sumer, Egypt, Babylone, > Indus,> > China or Greece. But never so deep and so mathematically correct > this> > science was developed in any other country except India. Our Rishis > and> > Acharyas were at the top in many a faculty of science, like > Medicine,> > Physics, Chemistry, Astronomy and Astrology. Since times immemorial > man> > wondered about the moving and comparatively steady objects, > twinkling in> > the sky by night; from this he started calculating the speed and > exact> > positions of the planets, various zodiacs and constellations; from > this> > Astrology developed.> > > > The greatness of our sages lies in the fact that they studied it so > deep> > that they could ascertain the effect of the starts even on non-> living> > substances. Not only this but research goes on in this science from > the> > Vedic Age to this date.> > > > The basic idea underlying this research was to serve the community > at> > large. Atharva-ved depicts Jyotish-Astrology- as the fourth organ of> > Vedas out of six. It is called Netra (eye) of the community. > According> > to the Vedas the movement and the Drashti Avm Vedh (aspects and> > conjunctions) of the stars do affect not only the humanity, but the> > forces of nature even like rains, cold, heat etc.> > > > In the "Brahmanas" (treaties on Vedas), too, Asgtrology is given > much> > importance. The Narad-Sanatkumar dialogue in the Chhandogya section > of> > Sam Brahmana, Astrology is given due preference out of 14 'Vidyas'. > The> > Taiteraiya Brahaman gives details of the movement of Surya, Prithvi > and> > hours, the days and nights, ("break" and "fall"). You will be > surprised> > to note that even the Anushasan Parva of Mahabharat gives complete > list> > of Constellations and guides about the alms to be given during the > span> > of each and every Nakshatras (Constellations). In Bhishma Parva the> > results of death in the Uttarayana and Dakshinayana are depicted in> > details (so Bhishma chose to die in Uttarayana). The Udyog Parva > details> > the "Ashubh Yoga"due to certain planets a constellations.> > > > According to the Indian mythology there are 18 Acharya of Astrology.> > > > (1) Surya (2) Brahma (3) Vyas (4) Atri (5) Parasar (6) Kashyap (7)> > Vashishtha (8) Narad (9) Garga (10) Marichi (11) Muni (12) Angiras > (13)> > Lomash (14) Paulish (15) Chyavan (16) Yavan (17) Manu (18) Shaunak> > > > Lord Surya gave this Shastra first of all to Brahma, the creator, > who> > taught this science to Garga, Badrayan(vyas), Angiras etc. Thus the> > science went on developing and to this date it has developed so far > that> > it can be called an ocean.> > > > In fact Astrology is the fundamental science of all the sciences. It> > touches every aspect of one's life, be it health, family, real > estate,> > money, legal tangle, romance, marital relations, luck, business,> > industry, profession or service, even the death, too, can be > predicted> > from this. (Of course it is generally forbidden to predict one's > death> > forthwith.. An astrologer can say that the period is not good for > health> > or to be cautious about accidents, etc.)> > > > The modern science, too, knows about the influence of planets. The > tide> > and the ebb are results of certain positions of the Sun and the > Moon.> > Likewise the planets can affect on our blood circulation, too. Weak > Moon> > makes one's mind weak or unstable or one is apt to be weak > physically.> > The Sun and the Moon does not affect human beings only, but they > affect> > the vegetation also. Generally flowers blossom by the morning but > the> > white Lily blossom by night, the red or pink lotus blossom on the > day> > break.> > > > Even the animals, too, have profound effect of the Sun and the > Moon. The> > ires of cat changes according to the phases of Moon. They affect > even> > the sexual impulses not only in the human beings but also amongst > the> > animals. The effect of the planets is more sharp on the animals, as > they> > come to know about the impeding danger very soon. Before an > earthquake,> > the serpants come out of their bidings, so do other animals. The > birds,> > too, fly here and there. During the eclipse of the Sun the birds go > into> > slumber.> > > > Who is not interested in knowing one's future ? Even the scientists > try> > to enter into the future. We know about the past and present. But > can't> > we know about the future ? There should be some way to know it. The> > scientists call it futurology. This science is being developed > since a> > couple of decades and astrology, too, has got a footage in the prime> > place in futurology. Astrology gives much weightage to the stars.> > > > Astrology is divided into 3 parts. "Sidhdhant" > (Principles), "Sanhita"> > (Compilation) and "Hora" Astrology (Jyotish ) is called the > principal> > organ of the Vedas, too. Jyotish means Jyoti + Ish (Ishasya Jyotih) > the> > light of the God. This has references in the Vedas, Brahmanas > (treaties> > on the vedas), Panini Sutras, Puranas etc. Vedang Jyotish, an > ancient> > book on astrology, gives much of details regarding this science. > Vedang> > means organ of the vedas ( Vedanam Angam), so Jyotish is not the > Veda> > itself, but a very important part of the Vedas.(Surya Sindhdhant) an> > authentic book on Astronomy by Bhaskaracharya I, give much > prominence to> > Astrology also. It details almost all the principles of Astrology > based> > on Astronomy. Now it is a known fact that in ancient times, Hindus> > excelled in astronomy as well as astrology. The "Siddhant Ganit" > gives> > detailed calculations about the years, months and days passed by > till> > the date of its writing. Likewise the "Ayan" (solastics), Seasons,> > movements of the planets, the solar and lunar eclipses, date ( > Tithi ),> > Constellations, Yoga , karan or the tangential positions etc. are> > written with great exactness. Even the 'Vedh-Yantras' (sextants and> > telescopes), too might have been used by the astronomers of the > ancient> > age in India. And had deep knowledge about Khagol (Astronomy).> > > > The other two parts of Astrology, Hora avm Sanhita deal with the> > prediction aspect of Astrology. The word Hora has been coined from> > "Ahoratra" according to Varahmihir ( "Ho" from Aho and Ra from > Ratra ).> > As per HoraShastra one's life chart is drawn, as per the positions > of> > various planets and zodiacs (Rashi). The planets are placed in > various> > rashies as they are there at the time of one's birth. This chart or > map> > of one's life is variously called 'JanmaLagna', 'Janmagam' or> > JanmKundali. Predictions are based on this.> > > > In the Sidhdhant part, predictions regarding the rains, storms,> > earthquakes, comets, asteroids, eclipses, "VastuShastra", subsoil > water.> > Yagnas and the Muhurtas (good and bad omens), gems, effect of > planets> > and constellations on nations, twitching of skin on parts of > bodies, (> > Anga - Sfuran )etc. are given with such great exactness that one > gets> > amazed. All these they have given for the benefit of the people at> > large.> > > > Bha = light Ratam Iti Bharatam> > > > The country has never seen a dark age like witnessed by Europe or > other> > countries of Asia and Africa (China can be an exception). The > ancient> > sages and scholars of India had constructed various "Yantras" to > study> > Astrology and framed basic yet infallible principles of it like > division> > of the sky in 12 Rashies, (Zodiacs) and 27 Nakshatras, > (Constellations).> > Also the Indian Astrologers have given the relative speeds of the> > planets and satellites. Not only this but the speed has been divided> > into Kala, Vikala etc. which today be calculated on the basis of > hours,> > minutes and seconds. So, one must be proficient in mathematics to > give> > correct predictions.> > > > India is proud for having great astronomers like Arya bhatta, Varah> > Mihir, Bhrama Gupta, Munjal, Bhatotpal, Shatanand, Bhaskaracharya I > & > > II. They were basically great astronomers, but have also given great> > treaties on Astrology and have served the states in which they were> > given the chair of "Astrologer Royal" ( Raj Jyotishi ) and through > the> > states they served the community at large, too. Takshshila, Kashi,> > Ujjaini, Tanjaur, and Nalanda were the great Vidhyapithas, where> > astronomy and astrology were taught. Here the Vedhshalas > (observatories)> > flourished. The Ravan Samhita, Pulatsya Samhita, Jambali Samhita, > Indra> > Samhita, Surya Samhita, Arun Samhita, Jaimini Samhita, Rudra > Samhita are> > authentic works on astrology.> > > > Thus astrology is imbedded thorough and thorough in our lives. Even > a> > lay man may be, out of curiousity only, is interested in this > science.> > This gives rise to religiousness. Most of the people take and follow> > advice of Jyotishi still many a people are apt to belittle this > great> > science as superstition and bigotary. They never miss an > opportunity to> > degrade this science, when a prediction goes haywire. But nobody > blames> > the medical science, if an operation fails or nobody blames the> > judiciary, if he/she losses a suite. So why blames astrologers and> > especially astrology for prediction which may not prove 100% > correct ?> > > > This is a blasphemy. As the science has been developed by great> > astronomers and astrologers of the past. But the most in human> > aggressions by the foriegners and our ignorance of this valuable> > knowledge, we have lost many more about this science. By this reason> > create a doubt on this science. Not only this the pseudo-> astrologers,and> > money minded astrologers who misguide the people and devalued > astrology.> > But Astrology is excellent science. So till now a day people have > not> > only trust but confidence too on Astrology. So many ctriticism > developed> > in front of Astrology, inspite of this astrology maintained its own> > existence.> > > > The pseudo-astrologers of our age have almost completed this > viscious> > circle. More so those who have real knowledge, are mostly greedy who> > almost squeeze their clients. This has led to further decline. All > other> > sciences like, physics, mathematics, chemistry, medical science,> > sociology, economics deal with one subject only, but astrology deals> > with almost all the faculties.> > > > So Astrology is not only a science, but a science of all sciences.> >>

[Guest guest]

Shri Prashanth Nairji,

Namaskar!

You have said

<let us b more open and not so rigid on unprooved or yet to b prooved

beyond doubt matters because we r now looking for DNA testing even in

case of our own father .because we want proof ??>

 

 

There are just two points in this entire discussion which have to be

kept in mind. One is that " Vedic astrology " is really Vedic and the

other is that " Vedic astrology " is a science!

 

Let us try to find the answer to the first question first:

 

" Vedic astrology " has bee named as " Vedic astrology " in spite of the

fact that there are no Mesha etc. Rashis in any of the four Vedas

viz. the Rig-Veda, the Yajur-Veda, the Sama-Veda and also the Atharva-

Veda, nor is there any mention of any Mangal, Shani etc. planets in

any of the Vedas! It certainly means that someone has played a very

cruel joke on the Vedic Hindus by naming some predictive gimmicks as

Vedic astrology!

The same fact gets further confirmation because in all the Jyotisha

works related to the Vedas, viz. the Rik Jyotisham, the Yajur

Jyotisham, the Atharva Jyotisha or even the Atharva-Veda-

Parishishtha, Mesha etc. rashis are conspicuous by their absence from

all of them, so much so that Rik and Yajur Jyotisham do not mention

anything about Mangal, Shani etc. planets either.

Thus there cannot be any doubt in anybody's mind that the so called

Vedic astrology is anything but Vedic!

 

Since there is no Vedic astrology at all, we cannot prove a non-

existent " stream of knowledge " as a science, least of all " a science

of all sciences " !

It is as simple as that, whatever logic or arguments anyone may try

to put forward in support of his/her contention.

And as already repeated hundrds of times, the oly " benefit " the Hinus

are reaping from such cruel joke is that they are being uprooted from

their real cultural moorings by being compelled to celebrate

Uttarayana on any day but the shortest day of the yar and so on!

Again, that is also as simple as that!

With regards,

A K Kaul

, " prashanthnair999 "

<prashanthnair999 wrote:

>

>

>

>

> respected Kaul ji

>

>

>

> namaskar

>

> With all respect to u and ur knowledge i hav simple request ,let us

b

> more open and not so rigid on unprooved or yet to b prooved beyond

doubt

> matters because we r now looking for DNA testing even in case of

our own

> father .because we want proof ??or we dont like to blv other wise .

>

> i am not interested in arguements which will not lead no where

>

> but one thing greeks were never termed as yavanas ,in that case

unani

> medicine we shud indebted to them same is with many words in use

with

> yavana or yunan etc even in kerala jonaka -yavana we call for

muslims so

> it is termed as a usage for out of caste or sphere persons

>

>

>

> the words yavanahi mlecha or mlechahi yavana is used by sage garga

not

> varhamihira ,Mihira was quoting it

>

> i dont blv the book published day as the creation of knowledge

day .If

> it is true if i write some books and which may make all books

obselete

> in future and did it mean that the knowledge derived in 21

centruy ??

>

> i dont blv with valid reasons we imported astrology but may b some

> interaction might hav happened ( like in todays moon probe we do

many

> things better than US or Russia does it mean that we r better ,which

> they will adopt tomorrow as we will b sharing this knowledge with

them )

>

>

>

> also i dont blv all vedas ( knowledge ) were avilable for all ppl

freely

> with valid reasons .even we know veda s ( 4 vedas ) edited ,so what

it

> indicates ??its crude form we lost right ??

>

> so its futile to see all in vedas ,wheter its is ayurveda or

dhanuveda

> or jyothirveda or other sastras frm kama sastra to yoga sastra .as

vedas

> r not text book for these sastas .Also we dont know how much we

lost in

> preserving it .

>

> Now almost all books on tantra due its secrecy is still not avilable

> ,may b in gupt form it is preserved i dont know .

>

> so next time i am not interested in such futile exercises .

>

>

>

> if we go by much hitlerisation of vedas communities ,like his

> aryanisation cocept .The communities which has no or less reference

like

> which were tantric or naga or saiva or bhavani worshippers like ur

kaul

> kula is also out of vedas and if u insist all shud go out of

hindustan

> ??then where will it end ??

>

>

>

> so let us not dig to that extent .

>

>

>

> I am stopping here as i cannot type what ever arguemnts and proofs

comes

> in my mind .

>

> in india even poojas r known as AGamas ( which has came or

adopted ) so

> is astrology ,means frm where greeks ?? what abt meluha culture ??

indus

> culture known to out side world and which has given its impression

tru

> out world ??what abt tantra culture ,saiva culture ?? so many

indiginous

> forms ??

>

> In indus valley i suppose they dont hav any books un earthted till

today

> ,so we can assume that they r illiterates ?/right ??

>

>

>

> so see this links too

>

>

>

> /message/847

> </message/847>

>

> /message/848

> </message/848>

>

>

>

> regrds prashanth

>

>

, " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

> <jyotirved@> wrote:

> >

> > Shri Prashanth Nairji,

> > Namaskar!

> >

> > <......But never so deep and so mathematically correct this

> > science (astrology)was developed in any other country except

India.>

> >

> > To the best of my knowledge, there is no indigenous work of

planetary

> > astronomy vis-a-vis Mesha etc. Rashis prior to the Surya Sidhana

of

> > Maya the mlechha! And it is an open secret by now that Maya was a

> > Greek astrologer and the Surya Sidhanta is not a work of " Surya

> > Bhagwan " as claimed by Maya, but an extremely monstrous

astronomical

> > work which is anything but accurate!

> > You can check the results for yourself about differences in mean

> > planetary longitudes of the SS vis-a-vis modern astronomy through

> > Mahesh program at HinduCalendar forum.

> >

> > As against this lack of interest in planetary knowledge in ancient

> > India there are clay tablets of about 7th millenium BCE from

> > Babylonia referring to planets and even Mesha etc. rashis!

> >

> > <.....from this he started calculating the speed and exact

> > positions of the planets, various zodiacs and constellations; from

> > this Astrology developed.>

> >

> > Zodiac is just one! there cannot be more than one zodiacs

> > astronomically! Similarly, it is impossible to calculate the speed

> > of various constellations, since every star (components of a

> > constellation!) has a speed of its own! We cannot calculate " mean

> > average " of the sum-total of varying speeds of all the stars in a

> > constellatio and then ascribe that " Average speed " to a

> > constellation! That is an impossible task!

> >

> > Obviously, astrology is anything but scietnific! It is all a

wishful

> > thinking directly related to human weakness which had been

exploited

> > by Babylonia to the hilt! Vedic Seers were actually immune to such

> > weakness, as will be evident from all the Vedas, where we are

> > strictly advised to believe in " Purusharth " .

> >

> > The so called Vedic works of astrology like Atharva Veda

Parishishta

> > and Atharva Jyotisha are works of post Atharva-Veda era, though

prior

> > to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mleccha, since we find Mesha

etc.

> > Rashis in the SS for the first time.

> >

> > The astrological principles adumbeated in those works of post

Atharva-

> > Veda eta are more sinister than even Brihat Samhita! If we go by

the

> > dictates of these so called " jyotisha-vedas " , you can rest assured

> > that we as Hindus will be annihilated sooner than later as a Hindu

> > community completely and we do not need any Lashkare-Tayeba to do

> > that!

> >

> > That the Vedic seers made exact caluculations of planets is also a

> > wishful thinking since judging from the Vedanga Jyotisha of

Acharya

> > Lagadha (14th century BCE) or even the Parashara Sidhanta etc.

there

> > is nothing to show that the Vedic Seers could calculate planetary

> > longitudes vis-a-vis Kritika etc. nakshatras----leave alone Mesha

> > etc. rashis, which were non-existent then in Inia---correctly!

Even

> > about the nakshatra divisions, there is no uniform opinion since

in

> > ancient India also, there were unequal nakshatra divisions which

were

> > later " converted " into 27 equal divisions for computational ease!

> >

> > The million dollar question that remains unanswered is as to even

if

> > we presume that the real Vamadevas were astro-buffs, how on earth

did

> > they calculate their horoscopes, with the miserably incorrect

> > astronomical parameters to calculate even mean longitudes of the

sun

> > and the moon, as is evident from the Vedanga Jyotisha of Lagadha

> > which has taken 366 days as the duraton of a year!

> > Then again, how on earth were birth times recorded in ancient

India

> > since we did not have any other " cloks " except ghati yantra to do

> > that! And do you think that every house-hold had such a yantra to

> > note the time of birth of every human being? Or do you mean to say

> > that every " Ayah " had such a ghati yantra with her while

attending to

> > her " clients " at the time of delivery! And again, when even

> > electronic watches of today do not keep their pace with Atomic

Time,

> > how do you suppose that we could do so in ancient India!

> >

> > IT IS VERY EASY TO INDULGE IN WISHFUL THINKING BUT WE CANNOT

OVERLOOK

> > THE FACT THAT TILL ABOUT 1960, EVEN MODERN ASTRONOMERS WERE

UNAWARE

> > OF DELTA TIME! AND THAT TIME DIFFERENCE COULD BE AS MANY AS SEVEN

> > DAYS IN ABOUT 10000 BCE! In 3102 BCE, the presumed start of Kali

> > Era, it was about 21 hours as per " almighty " Lahiri's Tables of

the

> > Sun itself!

> > As such, by such grandiloquent attitudes, we are actually making a

> > laughing stock of ourselves in the eyes of the whole world, all

just

> > to authenticate our wrong presumptions that the real Vamadevas

were

> > astro-buffs!

> >

> >

> > <Atharva-ved depicts Jyotish-Astrology- as the fourth organ of

> > Vedas out of six. It is called Netra (eye) of the community.

According

> > to the Vedas the movement and the Drashti Avm Vedh (aspects and

> > conjunctions) of the stars do affect not only the humanity, but

the

> > forces of nature even like rains, cold, heat etc.>

> >

> > Jyotisha as Netra of the Vedas is in the sense of astronomy---that

> > also for finding suitable tithi, nakshatra etc. for Vedic rituals.

> > This has been made clear in the most ancient indigenous

astronomical

> > work viz. the Vedanga Jyotisha (14th century BCE)and also the last

> > indigenous sidhanta viz. the Sidhanta Shiromani of Bhakara-II!

> >

> > <You will be surprised to note that even the Anushasan Parva of

> > Mahabharat gives complete list of Constellations and guides about

the

> > alms to be given during the span of each and every Nakshatras

> > (Constellations). In Bhishma Parva the results of death in the

> > Uttarayana and Dakshinayana are depicted in details (so Bhishma

chose

> > to die in Uttarayana).>

> >

> > It is all astronomy vis-a-vis muhurtas---as per the VJ of

Lagadhaand

> > not predictive astrology!

> >

> > <The Udyog Parva details the " Ashubh Yoga " due to certain planets a

> > constellations.>

> >

> > We have yet to find any references to any plaentary conbinations

in

> > the birthcharts of any prominent person whether Yudishthira or

even

> > Duryadhana --- leave alone Bhagwan Krishna---in the Mbh or any

other

> > Purana! The Mbh. has quite a few references to planetary movements

> > vis-a-vis nakshatras but there is no guarantee that they are not

> > later interploations! Even if we presume them to be " oroginal " ,

how

> > on earth were those movements calculated since we do not find any

> > references to any works in any of the Puranas or the Mbh etc.

which

> > talk of calculating plaentary longitudes vis-a-vis krittika

> > etc.nakshatras!

> >

> > In the same Mbh. Bhishma Pitamaha has come down heavily on

naksahtra-

> > soochis (who are known as " Vedic astrologers " thee days!) and has

> > advised that a king must treat them as chandalas even if they are

> > brahmins! As such, it is all a wishful thinking---a very sinister

> > thinking at that---to fire " astrological guns " from the shoulders

of

> > the Atharva Veda or the Mbh. etc.

> >

> > We have been taken in by this ploy by the Greeks to subjugagte us

to

> > predictive gimmicks so that we became more fatalists than anything

> > else, and the net result has been that we are celebrating

Uttarayna --

> > the same Uttarayana in which Bhishma shed his mortal coil---not on

> > the shortest day of the year but on a day as " prescribed "

> > by " almighty Lahiri " and Lahiriwalas---thanks to the uniring

efforts

> > of " Vedic astrologers " .

> >

> > If we really want to save the real Vedic dharma, we have to treat

> > predictive astrology not as a science or as a branch of the Vedas

but

> > as really the greatest fraud on the Vedas!

> > My humble request to all Hindus, therefore, is that in their over-

> > zealous urge to establish the " rule " of pedictive gimmicks as

> > unqeustioned, they must at least spare the real Vamadevas!

> > With regards,

> > A K Kaul

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , " prashanthnair999 "

> > prashanthnair999@ wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > In almost all civilizations and developed cultures the science

of

> > > foretelling future was cultivated, be it Sumer, Egypt, Babylone,

> > Indus,

> > > China or Greece. But never so deep and so mathematically correct

> > this

> > > science was developed in any other country except India. Our

Rishis

> > and

> > > Acharyas were at the top in many a faculty of science, like

> > Medicine,

> > > Physics, Chemistry, Astronomy and Astrology. Since times

immemorial

> > man

> > > wondered about the moving and comparatively steady objects,

> > twinkling in

> > > the sky by night; from this he started calculating the speed and

> > exact

> > > positions of the planets, various zodiacs and constellations;

from

> > this

> > > Astrology developed.

> > >

> > > The greatness of our sages lies in the fact that they studied

it so

> > deep

> > > that they could ascertain the effect of the starts even on non-

> > living

> > > substances. Not only this but research goes on in this science

from

> > the

> > > Vedic Age to this date.

> > >

> > > The basic idea underlying this research was to serve the

community

> > at

> > > large. Atharva-ved depicts Jyotish-Astrology- as the fourth

organ of

> > > Vedas out of six. It is called Netra (eye) of the community.

> > According

> > > to the Vedas the movement and the Drashti Avm Vedh (aspects and

> > > conjunctions) of the stars do affect not only the humanity, but

the

> > > forces of nature even like rains, cold, heat etc.

> > >

> > > In the " Brahmanas " (treaties on Vedas), too, Asgtrology is given

> > much

> > > importance. The Narad-Sanatkumar dialogue in the Chhandogya

section

> > of

> > > Sam Brahmana, Astrology is given due preference out of

14 'Vidyas'.

> > The

> > > Taiteraiya Brahaman gives details of the movement of Surya,

Prithvi

> > and

> > > hours, the days and nights, ( " break " and " fall " ). You will be

> > surprised

> > > to note that even the Anushasan Parva of Mahabharat gives

complete

> > list

> > > of Constellations and guides about the alms to be given during

the

> > span

> > > of each and every Nakshatras (Constellations). In Bhishma Parva

the

> > > results of death in the Uttarayana and Dakshinayana are

depicted in

> > > details (so Bhishma chose to die in Uttarayana). The Udyog Parva

> > details

> > > the " Ashubh Yoga " due to certain planets a constellations.

> > >

> > > According to the Indian mythology there are 18 Acharya of

Astrology.

> > >

> > > (1) Surya (2) Brahma (3) Vyas (4) Atri (5) Parasar (6) Kashyap

(7)

> > > Vashishtha (8) Narad (9) Garga (10) Marichi (11) Muni (12)

Angiras

> > (13)

> > > Lomash (14) Paulish (15) Chyavan (16) Yavan (17) Manu (18)

Shaunak

> > >

> > > Lord Surya gave this Shastra first of all to Brahma, the

creator,

> > who

> > > taught this science to Garga, Badrayan(vyas), Angiras etc. Thus

the

> > > science went on developing and to this date it has developed so

far

> > that

> > > it can be called an ocean.

> > >

> > > In fact Astrology is the fundamental science of all the

sciences. It

> > > touches every aspect of one's life, be it health, family, real

> > estate,

> > > money, legal tangle, romance, marital relations, luck, business,

> > > industry, profession or service, even the death, too, can be

> > predicted

> > > from this. (Of course it is generally forbidden to predict one's

> > death

> > > forthwith.. An astrologer can say that the period is not good

for

> > health

> > > or to be cautious about accidents, etc.)

> > >

> > > The modern science, too, knows about the influence of planets.

The

> > tide

> > > and the ebb are results of certain positions of the Sun and the

> > Moon.

> > > Likewise the planets can affect on our blood circulation, too.

Weak

> > Moon

> > > makes one's mind weak or unstable or one is apt to be weak

> > physically.

> > > The Sun and the Moon does not affect human beings only, but they

> > affect

> > > the vegetation also. Generally flowers blossom by the morning

but

> > the

> > > white Lily blossom by night, the red or pink lotus blossom on

the

> > day

> > > break.

> > >

> > > Even the animals, too, have profound effect of the Sun and the

> > Moon. The

> > > ires of cat changes according to the phases of Moon. They affect

> > even

> > > the sexual impulses not only in the human beings but also

amongst

> > the

> > > animals. The effect of the planets is more sharp on the

animals, as

> > they

> > > come to know about the impeding danger very soon. Before an

> > earthquake,

> > > the serpants come out of their bidings, so do other animals. The

> > birds,

> > > too, fly here and there. During the eclipse of the Sun the

birds go

> > into

> > > slumber.

> > >

> > > Who is not interested in knowing one's future ? Even the

scientists

> > try

> > > to enter into the future. We know about the past and present.

But

> > can't

> > > we know about the future ? There should be some way to know it.

The

> > > scientists call it futurology. This science is being developed

> > since a

> > > couple of decades and astrology, too, has got a footage in the

prime

> > > place in futurology. Astrology gives much weightage to the

stars.

> > >

> > > Astrology is divided into 3 parts. " Sidhdhant "

> > (Principles), " Sanhita "

> > > (Compilation) and " Hora " Astrology (Jyotish ) is called the

> > principal

> > > organ of the Vedas, too. Jyotish means Jyoti + Ish (Ishasya

Jyotih)

> > the

> > > light of the God. This has references in the Vedas, Brahmanas

> > (treaties

> > > on the vedas), Panini Sutras, Puranas etc. Vedang Jyotish, an

> > ancient

> > > book on astrology, gives much of details regarding this science.

> > Vedang

> > > means organ of the vedas ( Vedanam Angam), so Jyotish is not the

> > Veda

> > > itself, but a very important part of the Vedas.(Surya

Sindhdhant) an

> > > authentic book on Astronomy by Bhaskaracharya I, give much

> > prominence to

> > > Astrology also. It details almost all the principles of

Astrology

> > based

> > > on Astronomy. Now it is a known fact that in ancient times,

Hindus

> > > excelled in astronomy as well as astrology. The " Siddhant Ganit "

> > gives

> > > detailed calculations about the years, months and days passed by

> > till

> > > the date of its writing. Likewise the " Ayan " (solastics),

Seasons,

> > > movements of the planets, the solar and lunar eclipses, date (

> > Tithi ),

> > > Constellations, Yoga , karan or the tangential positions etc.

are

> > > written with great exactness. Even the 'Vedh-Yantras' (sextants

and

> > > telescopes), too might have been used by the astronomers of the

> > ancient

> > > age in India. And had deep knowledge about Khagol (Astronomy).

> > >

> > > The other two parts of Astrology, Hora avm Sanhita deal with the

> > > prediction aspect of Astrology. The word Hora has been coined

from

> > > " Ahoratra " according to Varahmihir ( " Ho " from Aho and Ra from

> > Ratra ).

> > > As per HoraShastra one's life chart is drawn, as per the

positions

> > of

> > > various planets and zodiacs (Rashi). The planets are placed in

> > various

> > > rashies as they are there at the time of one's birth. This

chart or

> > map

> > > of one's life is variously called 'JanmaLagna', 'Janmagam' or

> > > JanmKundali. Predictions are based on this.

> > >

> > > In the Sidhdhant part, predictions regarding the rains, storms,

> > > earthquakes, comets, asteroids, eclipses, " VastuShastra " ,

subsoil

> > water.

> > > Yagnas and the Muhurtas (good and bad omens), gems, effect of

> > planets

> > > and constellations on nations, twitching of skin on parts of

> > bodies, (

> > > Anga - Sfuran )etc. are given with such great exactness that one

> > gets

> > > amazed. All these they have given for the benefit of the people

at

> > > large.

> > >

> > > Bha = light Ratam Iti Bharatam

> > >

> > > The country has never seen a dark age like witnessed by Europe

or

> > other

> > > countries of Asia and Africa (China can be an exception). The

> > ancient

> > > sages and scholars of India had constructed various " Yantras " to

> > study

> > > Astrology and framed basic yet infallible principles of it like

> > division

> > > of the sky in 12 Rashies, (Zodiacs) and 27 Nakshatras,

> > (Constellations).

> > > Also the Indian Astrologers have given the relative speeds of

the

> > > planets and satellites. Not only this but the speed has been

divided

> > > into Kala, Vikala etc. which today be calculated on the basis of

> > hours,

> > > minutes and seconds. So, one must be proficient in mathematics

to

> > give

> > > correct predictions.

> > >

> > > India is proud for having great astronomers like Arya bhatta,

Varah

> > > Mihir, Bhrama Gupta, Munjal, Bhatotpal, Shatanand,

Bhaskaracharya I

> > &

> > > II. They were basically great astronomers, but have also given

great

> > > treaties on Astrology and have served the states in which they

were

> > > given the chair of " Astrologer Royal " ( Raj Jyotishi ) and

through

> > the

> > > states they served the community at large, too. Takshshila,

Kashi,

> > > Ujjaini, Tanjaur, and Nalanda were the great Vidhyapithas, where

> > > astronomy and astrology were taught. Here the Vedhshalas

> > (observatories)

> > > flourished. The Ravan Samhita, Pulatsya Samhita, Jambali

Samhita,

> > Indra

> > > Samhita, Surya Samhita, Arun Samhita, Jaimini Samhita, Rudra

> > Samhita are

> > > authentic works on astrology.

> > >

> > > Thus astrology is imbedded thorough and thorough in our lives.

Even

> > a

> > > lay man may be, out of curiousity only, is interested in this

> > science.

> > > This gives rise to religiousness. Most of the people take and

follow

> > > advice of Jyotishi still many a people are apt to belittle this

> > great

> > > science as superstition and bigotary. They never miss an

> > opportunity to

> > > degrade this science, when a prediction goes haywire. But nobody

> > blames

> > > the medical science, if an operation fails or nobody blames the

> > > judiciary, if he/she losses a suite. So why blames astrologers

and

> > > especially astrology for prediction which may not prove 100%

> > correct ?

> > >

> > > This is a blasphemy. As the science has been developed by great

> > > astronomers and astrologers of the past. But the most in human

> > > aggressions by the foriegners and our ignorance of this valuable

> > > knowledge, we have lost many more about this science. By this

reason

> > > create a doubt on this science. Not only this the pseudo-

> > astrologers,and

> > > money minded astrologers who misguide the people and devalued

> > astrology.

> > > But Astrology is excellent science. So till now a day people

have

> > not

> > > only trust but confidence too on Astrology. So many ctriticism

> > developed

> > > in front of Astrology, inspite of this astrology maintained its

own

> > > existence.

> > >

> > > The pseudo-astrologers of our age have almost completed this

> > viscious

> > > circle. More so those who have real knowledge, are mostly

greedy who

> > > almost squeeze their clients. This has led to further decline.

All

> > other

> > > sciences like, physics, mathematics, chemistry, medical science,

> > > sociology, economics deal with one subject only, but astrology

deals

> > > with almost all the faculties.

> > >

> > > So Astrology is not only a science, but a science of all

sciences.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

respected kaul ji

 

Namaskar

 

i already proovd there is astrology in vedas and all indian astronomers were astrologers too ,just a sample question why we need muhurthas ??so many other ppl asked u but u know this will derail ur theories but answer me .

may b ur limited undigested knowldge is not allowing u to agree this .

also think abt tradition in oral and gurukulas which u dont know and even the vedas the secret is diffrnt than which apparently shows .If u blv other wise tell me i hav so many doubts to clear and will lov to hear frm u the real meanings .

 

also i mentioned u several times veda is not text book of astrology .nor astromony nor any sastra .if u blv so tell me i am ready to discuss it

regrds prashanth

, "Avtar Krishen Kaul" <jyotirved wrote:>> Shri Prashanth Nairji,> Namaskar!> You have said> <let us b more open and not so rigid on unprooved or yet to b prooved > beyond doubt matters because we r now looking for DNA testing even in > case of our own father .because we want proof ??>> > > There are just two points in this entire discussion which have to be > kept in mind. One is that "Vedic astrology" is really Vedic and the > other is that "Vedic astrology" is a science!> > Let us try to find the answer to the first question first:> > "Vedic astrology" has bee named as "Vedic astrology" in spite of the > fact that there are no Mesha etc. Rashis in any of the four Vedas > viz. the Rig-Veda, the Yajur-Veda, the Sama-Veda and also the Atharva-> Veda, nor is there any mention of any Mangal, Shani etc. planets in > any of the Vedas! It certainly means that someone has played a very > cruel joke on the Vedic Hindus by naming some predictive gimmicks as > Vedic astrology!> The same fact gets further confirmation because in all the Jyotisha > works related to the Vedas, viz. the Rik Jyotisham, the Yajur > Jyotisham, the Atharva Jyotisha or even the Atharva-Veda-> Parishishtha, Mesha etc. rashis are conspicuous by their absence from > all of them, so much so that Rik and Yajur Jyotisham do not mention > anything about Mangal, Shani etc. planets either. > Thus there cannot be any doubt in anybody's mind that the so called > Vedic astrology is anything but Vedic!> > Since there is no Vedic astrology at all, we cannot prove a non-> existent "stream of knowledge" as a science, least of all "a science > of all sciences"!> It is as simple as that, whatever logic or arguments anyone may try > to put forward in support of his/her contention.> And as already repeated hundrds of times, the oly "benefit" the Hinus > are reaping from such cruel joke is that they are being uprooted from > their real cultural moorings by being compelled to celebrate > Uttarayana on any day but the shortest day of the yar and so on!> Again, that is also as simple as that!> With regards,> A K Kaul> , "prashanthnair999" > prashanthnair999@ wrote:> >> > > > > > > > respected Kaul ji> > > > > > > > namaskar> > > > With all respect to u and ur knowledge i hav simple request ,let us > b> > more open and not so rigid on unprooved or yet to b prooved beyond > doubt> > matters because we r now looking for DNA testing even in case of > our own> > father .because we want proof ??or we dont like to blv other wise .> > > > i am not interested in arguements which will not lead no where> > > > but one thing greeks were never termed as yavanas ,in that case > unani> > medicine we shud indebted to them same is with many words in use > with> > yavana or yunan etc even in kerala jonaka -yavana we call for > muslims so> > it is termed as a usage for out of caste or sphere persons> > > > > > > > the words yavanahi mlecha or mlechahi yavana is used by sage garga > not> > varhamihira ,Mihira was quoting it> > > > i dont blv the book published day as the creation of knowledge > day .If> > it is true if i write some books and which may make all books > obselete> > in future and did it mean that the knowledge derived in 21 > centruy ??> > > > i dont blv with valid reasons we imported astrology but may b some> > interaction might hav happened ( like in todays moon probe we do > many> > things better than US or Russia does it mean that we r better ,which> > they will adopt tomorrow as we will b sharing this knowledge with > them )> > > > > > > > also i dont blv all vedas ( knowledge ) were avilable for all ppl > freely> > with valid reasons .even we know veda s ( 4 vedas ) edited ,so what > it> > indicates ??its crude form we lost right ??> > > > so its futile to see all in vedas ,wheter its is ayurveda or > dhanuveda> > or jyothirveda or other sastras frm kama sastra to yoga sastra .as > vedas> > r not text book for these sastas .Also we dont know how much we > lost in> > preserving it .> > > > Now almost all books on tantra due its secrecy is still not avilable> > ,may b in gupt form it is preserved i dont know .> > > > so next time i am not interested in such futile exercises .> > > > > > > > if we go by much hitlerisation of vedas communities ,like his> > aryanisation cocept .The communities which has no or less reference > like> > which were tantric or naga or saiva or bhavani worshippers like ur > kaul> > kula is also out of vedas and if u insist all shud go out of > hindustan> > ??then where will it end ??> > > > > > > > so let us not dig to that extent .> > > > > > > > I am stopping here as i cannot type what ever arguemnts and proofs > comes> > in my mind .> > > > in india even poojas r known as AGamas ( which has came or > adopted ) so> > is astrology ,means frm where greeks ?? what abt meluha culture ??> indus> > culture known to out side world and which has given its impression > tru> > out world ??what abt tantra culture ,saiva culture ?? so many > indiginous> > forms ??> > > > In indus valley i suppose they dont hav any books un earthted till > today> > ,so we can assume that they r illiterates ?/right ??> > > > > > > > so see this links too> > > > > > > > /message/847> > </message/847>> > > > /message/848> > </message/848>> > > > > > > > regrds prashanth> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Avtar Krishen Kaul"> > <jyotirved@> wrote:> > >> > > Shri Prashanth Nairji,> > > Namaskar!> > >> > > <......But never so deep and so mathematically correct this> > > science (astrology)was developed in any other country except > India.>> > >> > > To the best of my knowledge, there is no indigenous work of > planetary> > > astronomy vis-a-vis Mesha etc. Rashis prior to the Surya Sidhana > of> > > Maya the mlechha! And it is an open secret by now that Maya was a> > > Greek astrologer and the Surya Sidhanta is not a work of "Surya> > > Bhagwan" as claimed by Maya, but an extremely monstrous > astronomical> > > work which is anything but accurate!> > > You can check the results for yourself about differences in mean> > > planetary longitudes of the SS vis-a-vis modern astronomy through> > > Mahesh program at HinduCalendar forum.> > >> > > As against this lack of interest in planetary knowledge in ancient> > > India there are clay tablets of about 7th millenium BCE from> > > Babylonia referring to planets and even Mesha etc. rashis!> > >> > > <.....from this he started calculating the speed and exact> > > positions of the planets, various zodiacs and constellations; from> > > this Astrology developed.>> > >> > > Zodiac is just one! there cannot be more than one zodiacs> > > astronomically! Similarly, it is impossible to calculate the speed> > > of various constellations, since every star (components of a> > > constellation!) has a speed of its own! We cannot calculate "mean> > > average" of the sum-total of varying speeds of all the stars in a> > > constellatio and then ascribe that "Average speed" to a> > > constellation! That is an impossible task!> > >> > > Obviously, astrology is anything but scietnific! It is all a > wishful> > > thinking directly related to human weakness which had been > exploited> > > by Babylonia to the hilt! Vedic Seers were actually immune to such> > > weakness, as will be evident from all the Vedas, where we are> > > strictly advised to believe in "Purusharth".> > >> > > The so called Vedic works of astrology like Atharva Veda > Parishishta> > > and Atharva Jyotisha are works of post Atharva-Veda era, though > prior> > > to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mleccha, since we find Mesha > etc.> > > Rashis in the SS for the first time.> > >> > > The astrological principles adumbeated in those works of post > Atharva-> > > Veda eta are more sinister than even Brihat Samhita! If we go by > the> > > dictates of these so called "jyotisha-vedas", you can rest assured> > > that we as Hindus will be annihilated sooner than later as a Hindu> > > community completely and we do not need any Lashkare-Tayeba to do> > > that!> > >> > > That the Vedic seers made exact caluculations of planets is also a> > > wishful thinking since judging from the Vedanga Jyotisha of > Acharya> > > Lagadha (14th century BCE) or even the Parashara Sidhanta etc. > there> > > is nothing to show that the Vedic Seers could calculate planetary> > > longitudes vis-a-vis Kritika etc. nakshatras----leave alone Mesha> > > etc. rashis, which were non-existent then in Inia---correctly! > Even> > > about the nakshatra divisions, there is no uniform opinion since > in> > > ancient India also, there were unequal nakshatra divisions which > were> > > later "converted" into 27 equal divisions for computational ease!> > >> > > The million dollar question that remains unanswered is as to even > if> > > we presume that the real Vamadevas were astro-buffs, how on earth > did> > > they calculate their horoscopes, with the miserably incorrect> > > astronomical parameters to calculate even mean longitudes of the > sun> > > and the moon, as is evident from the Vedanga Jyotisha of Lagadha> > > which has taken 366 days as the duraton of a year!> > > Then again, how on earth were birth times recorded in ancient > India> > > since we did not have any other "cloks" except ghati yantra to do> > > that! And do you think that every house-hold had such a yantra to> > > note the time of birth of every human being? Or do you mean to say> > > that every "Ayah" had such a ghati yantra with her while > attending to> > > her "clients" at the time of delivery! And again, when even> > > electronic watches of today do not keep their pace with Atomic > Time,> > > how do you suppose that we could do so in ancient India!> > >> > > IT IS VERY EASY TO INDULGE IN WISHFUL THINKING BUT WE CANNOT > OVERLOOK> > > THE FACT THAT TILL ABOUT 1960, EVEN MODERN ASTRONOMERS WERE > UNAWARE> > > OF DELTA TIME! AND THAT TIME DIFFERENCE COULD BE AS MANY AS SEVEN> > > DAYS IN ABOUT 10000 BCE! In 3102 BCE, the presumed start of Kali> > > Era, it was about 21 hours as per "almighty" Lahiri's Tables of > the> > > Sun itself!> > > As such, by such grandiloquent attitudes, we are actually making a> > > laughing stock of ourselves in the eyes of the whole world, all > just> > > to authenticate our wrong presumptions that the real Vamadevas > were> > > astro-buffs!> > >> > >> > > <Atharva-ved depicts Jyotish-Astrology- as the fourth organ of> > > Vedas out of six. It is called Netra (eye) of the community. > According> > > to the Vedas the movement and the Drashti Avm Vedh (aspects and> > > conjunctions) of the stars do affect not only the humanity, but > the> > > forces of nature even like rains, cold, heat etc.>> > >> > > Jyotisha as Netra of the Vedas is in the sense of astronomy---that> > > also for finding suitable tithi, nakshatra etc. for Vedic rituals.> > > This has been made clear in the most ancient indigenous > astronomical> > > work viz. the Vedanga Jyotisha (14th century BCE)and also the last> > > indigenous sidhanta viz. the Sidhanta Shiromani of Bhakara-II!> > >> > > <You will be surprised to note that even the Anushasan Parva of> > > Mahabharat gives complete list of Constellations and guides about > the> > > alms to be given during the span of each and every Nakshatras> > > (Constellations). In Bhishma Parva the results of death in the> > > Uttarayana and Dakshinayana are depicted in details (so Bhishma > chose> > > to die in Uttarayana).>> > >> > > It is all astronomy vis-a-vis muhurtas---as per the VJ of > Lagadhaand> > > not predictive astrology!> > >> > > <The Udyog Parva details the "Ashubh Yoga"due to certain planets a> > > constellations.>> > >> > > We have yet to find any references to any plaentary conbinations > in> > > the birthcharts of any prominent person whether Yudishthira or > even> > > Duryadhana --- leave alone Bhagwan Krishna---in the Mbh or any > other> > > Purana! The Mbh. has quite a few references to planetary movements> > > vis-a-vis nakshatras but there is no guarantee that they are not> > > later interploations! Even if we presume them to be "oroginal", > how> > > on earth were those movements calculated since we do not find any> > > references to any works in any of the Puranas or the Mbh etc. > which> > > talk of calculating plaentary longitudes vis-a-vis krittika> > > etc.nakshatras!> > >> > > In the same Mbh. Bhishma Pitamaha has come down heavily on > naksahtra-> > > soochis (who are known as "Vedic astrologers" thee days!) and has> > > advised that a king must treat them as chandalas even if they are> > > brahmins! As such, it is all a wishful thinking---a very sinister> > > thinking at that---to fire "astrological guns" from the shoulders > of> > > the Atharva Veda or the Mbh. etc.> > >> > > We have been taken in by this ploy by the Greeks to subjugagte us > to> > > predictive gimmicks so that we became more fatalists than anything> > > else, and the net result has been that we are celebrating > Uttarayna --> > > the same Uttarayana in which Bhishma shed his mortal coil---not on> > > the shortest day of the year but on a day as "prescribed"> > > by "almighty Lahiri" and Lahiriwalas---thanks to the uniring > efforts> > > of "Vedic astrologers".> > >> > > If we really want to save the real Vedic dharma, we have to treat> > > predictive astrology not as a science or as a branch of the Vedas > but> > > as really the greatest fraud on the Vedas!> > > My humble request to all Hindus, therefore, is that in their over-> > > zealous urge to establish the "rule" of pedictive gimmicks as> > > unqeustioned, they must at least spare the real Vamadevas!> > > With regards,> > > A K Kaul> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > , "prashanthnair999"> > > prashanthnair999@ wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > In almost all civilizations and developed cultures the science > of> > > > foretelling future was cultivated, be it Sumer, Egypt, Babylone,> > > Indus,> > > > China or Greece. But never so deep and so mathematically correct> > > this> > > > science was developed in any other country except India. Our > Rishis> > > and> > > > Acharyas were at the top in many a faculty of science, like> > > Medicine,> > > > Physics, Chemistry, Astronomy and Astrology. Since times > immemorial> > > man> > > > wondered about the moving and comparatively steady objects,> > > twinkling in> > > > the sky by night; from this he started calculating the speed and> > > exact> > > > positions of the planets, various zodiacs and constellations; > from> > > this> > > > Astrology developed.> > > >> > > > The greatness of our sages lies in the fact that they studied > it so> > > deep> > > > that they could ascertain the effect of the starts even on non-> > > living> > > > substances. Not only this but research goes on in this science > from> > > the> > > > Vedic Age to this date.> > > >> > > > The basic idea underlying this research was to serve the > community> > > at> > > > large. Atharva-ved depicts Jyotish-Astrology- as the fourth > organ of> > > > Vedas out of six. It is called Netra (eye) of the community.> > > According> > > > to the Vedas the movement and the Drashti Avm Vedh (aspects and> > > > conjunctions) of the stars do affect not only the humanity, but > the> > > > forces of nature even like rains, cold, heat etc.> > > >> > > > In the "Brahmanas" (treaties on Vedas), too, Asgtrology is given> > > much> > > > importance. The Narad-Sanatkumar dialogue in the Chhandogya > section> > > of> > > > Sam Brahmana, Astrology is given due preference out of > 14 'Vidyas'.> > > The> > > > Taiteraiya Brahaman gives details of the movement of Surya, > Prithvi> > > and> > > > hours, the days and nights, ("break" and "fall"). You will be> > > surprised> > > > to note that even the Anushasan Parva of Mahabharat gives > complete> > > list> > > > of Constellations and guides about the alms to be given during > the> > > span> > > > of each and every Nakshatras (Constellations). In Bhishma Parva > the> > > > results of death in the Uttarayana and Dakshinayana are > depicted in> > > > details (so Bhishma chose to die in Uttarayana). The Udyog Parva> > > details> > > > the "Ashubh Yoga"due to certain planets a constellations.> > > >> > > > According to the Indian mythology there are 18 Acharya of > Astrology.> > > >> > > > (1) Surya (2) Brahma (3) Vyas (4) Atri (5) Parasar (6) Kashyap > (7)> > > > Vashishtha (8) Narad (9) Garga (10) Marichi (11) Muni (12) > Angiras> > > (13)> > > > Lomash (14) Paulish (15) Chyavan (16) Yavan (17) Manu (18) > Shaunak> > > >> > > > Lord Surya gave this Shastra first of all to Brahma, the > creator,> > > who> > > > taught this science to Garga, Badrayan(vyas), Angiras etc. Thus > the> > > > science went on developing and to this date it has developed so > far> > > that> > > > it can be called an ocean.> > > >> > > > In fact Astrology is the fundamental science of all the > sciences. It> > > > touches every aspect of one's life, be it health, family, real> > > estate,> > > > money, legal tangle, romance, marital relations, luck, business,> > > > industry, profession or service, even the death, too, can be> > > predicted> > > > from this. (Of course it is generally forbidden to predict one's> > > death> > > > forthwith.. An astrologer can say that the period is not good > for> > > health> > > > or to be cautious about accidents, etc.)> > > >> > > > The modern science, too, knows about the influence of planets. > The> > > tide> > > > and the ebb are results of certain positions of the Sun and the> > > Moon.> > > > Likewise the planets can affect on our blood circulation, too. > Weak> > > Moon> > > > makes one's mind weak or unstable or one is apt to be weak> > > physically.> > > > The Sun and the Moon does not affect human beings only, but they> > > affect> > > > the vegetation also. Generally flowers blossom by the morning > but> > > the> > > > white Lily blossom by night, the red or pink lotus blossom on > the> > > day> > > > break.> > > >> > > > Even the animals, too, have profound effect of the Sun and the> > > Moon. The> > > > ires of cat changes according to the phases of Moon. They affect> > > even> > > > the sexual impulses not only in the human beings but also > amongst> > > the> > > > animals. The effect of the planets is more sharp on the > animals, as> > > they> > > > come to know about the impeding danger very soon. Before an> > > earthquake,> > > > the serpants come out of their bidings, so do other animals. The> > > birds,> > > > too, fly here and there. During the eclipse of the Sun the > birds go> > > into> > > > slumber.> > > >> > > > Who is not interested in knowing one's future ? Even the > scientists> > > try> > > > to enter into the future. We know about the past and present. > But> > > can't> > > > we know about the future ? There should be some way to know it. > The> > > > scientists call it futurology. This science is being developed> > > since a> > > > couple of decades and astrology, too, has got a footage in the > prime> > > > place in futurology. Astrology gives much weightage to the > stars.> > > >> > > > Astrology is divided into 3 parts. "Sidhdhant"> > > (Principles), "Sanhita"> > > > (Compilation) and "Hora" Astrology (Jyotish ) is called the> > > principal> > > > organ of the Vedas, too. Jyotish means Jyoti + Ish (Ishasya > Jyotih)> > > the> > > > light of the God. This has references in the Vedas, Brahmanas> > > (treaties> > > > on the vedas), Panini Sutras, Puranas etc. Vedang Jyotish, an> > > ancient> > > > book on astrology, gives much of details regarding this science.> > > Vedang> > > > means organ of the vedas ( Vedanam Angam), so Jyotish is not the> > > Veda> > > > itself, but a very important part of the Vedas.(Surya > Sindhdhant) an> > > > authentic book on Astronomy by Bhaskaracharya I, give much> > > prominence to> > > > Astrology also. It details almost all the principles of > Astrology> > > based> > > > on Astronomy. Now it is a known fact that in ancient times, > Hindus> > > > excelled in astronomy as well as astrology. The "Siddhant Ganit"> > > gives> > > > detailed calculations about the years, months and days passed by> > > till> > > > the date of its writing. Likewise the "Ayan" (solastics), > Seasons,> > > > movements of the planets, the solar and lunar eclipses, date (> > > Tithi ),> > > > Constellations, Yoga , karan or the tangential positions etc. > are> > > > written with great exactness. Even the 'Vedh-Yantras' (sextants > and> > > > telescopes), too might have been used by the astronomers of the> > > ancient> > > > age in India. And had deep knowledge about Khagol (Astronomy).> > > >> > > > The other two parts of Astrology, Hora avm Sanhita deal with the> > > > prediction aspect of Astrology. The word Hora has been coined > from> > > > "Ahoratra" according to Varahmihir ( "Ho" from Aho and Ra from> > > Ratra ).> > > > As per HoraShastra one's life chart is drawn, as per the > positions> > > of> > > > various planets and zodiacs (Rashi). The planets are placed in> > > various> > > > rashies as they are there at the time of one's birth. This > chart or> > > map> > > > of one's life is variously called 'JanmaLagna', 'Janmagam' or> > > > JanmKundali. Predictions are based on this.> > > >> > > > In the Sidhdhant part, predictions regarding the rains, storms,> > > > earthquakes, comets, asteroids, eclipses, "VastuShastra", > subsoil> > > water.> > > > Yagnas and the Muhurtas (good and bad omens), gems, effect of> > > planets> > > > and constellations on nations, twitching of skin on parts of> > > bodies, (> > > > Anga - Sfuran )etc. are given with such great exactness that one> > > gets> > > > amazed. All these they have given for the benefit of the people > at> > > > large.> > > >> > > > Bha = light Ratam Iti Bharatam> > > >> > > > The country has never seen a dark age like witnessed by Europe > or> > > other> > > > countries of Asia and Africa (China can be an exception). The> > > ancient> > > > sages and scholars of India had constructed various "Yantras" to> > > study> > > > Astrology and framed basic yet infallible principles of it like> > > division> > > > of the sky in 12 Rashies, (Zodiacs) and 27 Nakshatras,> > > (Constellations).> > > > Also the Indian Astrologers have given the relative speeds of > the> > > > planets and satellites. Not only this but the speed has been > divided> > > > into Kala, Vikala etc. which today be calculated on the basis of> > > hours,> > > > minutes and seconds. So, one must be proficient in mathematics > to> > > give> > > > correct predictions.> > > >> > > > India is proud for having great astronomers like Arya bhatta, > Varah> > > > Mihir, Bhrama Gupta, Munjal, Bhatotpal, Shatanand, > Bhaskaracharya I> > > & > > > > II. They were basically great astronomers, but have also given > great> > > > treaties on Astrology and have served the states in which they > were> > > > given the chair of "Astrologer Royal" ( Raj Jyotishi ) and > through> > > the> > > > states they served the community at large, too. Takshshila, > Kashi,> > > > Ujjaini, Tanjaur, and Nalanda were the great Vidhyapithas, where> > > > astronomy and astrology were taught. Here the Vedhshalas> > > (observatories)> > > > flourished. The Ravan Samhita, Pulatsya Samhita, Jambali > Samhita,> > > Indra> > > > Samhita, Surya Samhita, Arun Samhita, Jaimini Samhita, Rudra> > > Samhita are> > > > authentic works on astrology.> > > >> > > > Thus astrology is imbedded thorough and thorough in our lives. > Even> > > a> > > > lay man may be, out of curiousity only, is interested in this> > > science.> > > > This gives rise to religiousness. Most of the people take and > follow> > > > advice of Jyotishi still many a people are apt to belittle this> > > great> > > > science as superstition and bigotary. They never miss an> > > opportunity to> > > > degrade this science, when a prediction goes haywire. But nobody> > > blames> > > > the medical science, if an operation fails or nobody blames the> > > > judiciary, if he/she losses a suite. So why blames astrologers > and> > > > especially astrology for prediction which may not prove 100%> > > correct ?> > > >> > > > This is a blasphemy. As the science has been developed by great> > > > astronomers and astrologers of the past. But the most in human> > > > aggressions by the foriegners and our ignorance of this valuable> > > > knowledge, we have lost many more about this science. By this > reason> > > > create a doubt on this science. Not only this the pseudo-> > > astrologers,and> > > > money minded astrologers who misguide the people and devalued> > > astrology.> > > > But Astrology is excellent science. So till now a day people > have> > > not> > > > only trust but confidence too on Astrology. So many ctriticism> > > developed> > > > in front of Astrology, inspite of this astrology maintained its > own> > > > existence.> > > >> > > > The pseudo-astrologers of our age have almost completed this> > > viscious> > > > circle. More so those who have real knowledge, are mostly > greedy who> > > > almost squeeze their clients. This has led to further decline. > All> > > other> > > > sciences like, physics, mathematics, chemistry, medical science,> > > > sociology, economics deal with one subject only, but astrology > deals> > > > with almost all the faculties.> > > >> > > > So Astrology is not only a science, but a science of all > sciences.> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Shri Prashanth Nairji,

Namaskar!

<i already proovd there is astrology in vedas and all indian

astronomers were astrologers too >

 

Would you be kind enough to quote the exact Vedic mantras from any of

the four Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha or Yajur Jyotisha that talk of

Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis and Mangal, Shani etc. planets!

If thre are no Mesha etc. rashis there nor Mangal, Shani etc.

planets, what predictive astrology are those Vedas teaching us? And

how can you say that you have already proved that there is astrology

in the Vedas?

 

Even the " author " of a much later work like Atharva-Jyotisha himself

has clarfied that that work is anything but Vedic, and that is why it

has also been named as " Atma-Jyotisha " . However, even that " jyotisha

work " does not talk of Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis!

 

Similarly, Atharva-Veda Parishishta, the much hyped " phalita

jyotisha " work is also a much later work --- a post Atharva Veda

work, in fact! And ironically, even in that work Mesha etc. rashis

are conspcuous by their absences from that work!

Dr. R. N. Iyengar has proved it conslusively in his " Archeoastronomy

papers " that in Parashara Sidhanta also, there is no mention of

Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis!

All these three works are available in the files section of

HinduCalendar forum. Pl. go through them and draw your own

conclusions instead of going by what A B or C is saying.

 

<just a sample question why we need muhurthas ??so many other ppl

asked u but u know this will derail ur theories but answer me>

 

The 35th mantra of Rigveda Jyotisha (1400 BCE) says, " like the crests

on the heads of peacocks, like the gems on the hoods of the cobras,

ganita (astronomy) is at the top of the Vedanga shastras " . Pl. note

that there is no mentkio of any " phalita " there!

 

Bhaskara-II (1200 AD) has said, " The Vedas have asked us to perform

yjnyas. Yajnyas are dependent on proper timings. Because it is from

this shastra i.e. astronomy alone that such proper timings can be

dtermined, that is why it (astronomy---and not atrology!) is known as

a Vedanga " .

 

The VJ does not talk either of Mesha, Vrisha etc. rashis or of

Mangal, Shani etc. planets. Thus there is no question of any

predictive gimmicks in that most ancient indigenous astronomical work

available as on date! Similarly, though Bhaskara-II has discussed

Rashis as well as planets in his Sidhanta Shiromani, he also has

advised that jyotisha is a Vedanga only because it helps us to

calculate proper timings for yajnyas! And proper timings are nothing

but synonyms of muhurtas!

As such, you must direct your question to Acharya Lagadha---the most

ancient Indian astronomer, and to Bhaskara-II, the last sidhantakara

of Indian astronomy---as to why they have discussed muhurtas if they

do/did not believe in predictive gimmicks!

With regards,

AKK

 

 

Regards,

AKK

 

 

, " prashanthnair999 "

<prashanthnair999 wrote:

>

>

>

>

> respected kaul ji

>

>

>

> Namaskar

>

>

>

> i already proovd there is astrology in vedas and all indian

astronomers

> were astrologers too ,just a sample question why we need

muhurthas ??so

> many other ppl asked u but u know this will derail ur theories but

> answer me .

>

> may b ur limited undigested knowldge is not allowing u to agree

this .

>

> also think abt tradition in oral and gurukulas which u dont know and

> even the vedas the secret is diffrnt than which apparently

shows .If u

> blv other wise tell me i hav so many doubts to clear and will lov to

> hear frm u the real meanings .

>

>

>

> also i mentioned u several times veda is not text book of

astrology .nor

> astromony nor any sastra .if u blv so tell me i am ready to discuss

it

>

> regrds prashanth

>

>

> , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

> <jyotirved@> wrote:

> >

> > Shri Prashanth Nairji,

> > Namaskar!

> > You have said

> > <let us b more open and not so rigid on unprooved or yet to b

prooved

> > beyond doubt matters because we r now looking for DNA testing

even in

> > case of our own father .because we want proof ??>

> >

> >

> > There are just two points in this entire discussion which have to

be

> > kept in mind. One is that " Vedic astrology " is really Vedic and

the

> > other is that " Vedic astrology " is a science!

> >

> > Let us try to find the answer to the first question first:

> >

> > " Vedic astrology " has bee named as " Vedic astrology " in spite of

the

> > fact that there are no Mesha etc. Rashis in any of the four Vedas

> > viz. the Rig-Veda, the Yajur-Veda, the Sama-Veda and also the

Atharva-

> > Veda, nor is there any mention of any Mangal, Shani etc. planets

in

> > any of the Vedas! It certainly means that someone has played a

very

> > cruel joke on the Vedic Hindus by naming some predictive gimmicks

as

> > Vedic astrology!

> > The same fact gets further confirmation because in all the

Jyotisha

> > works related to the Vedas, viz. the Rik Jyotisham, the Yajur

> > Jyotisham, the Atharva Jyotisha or even the Atharva-Veda-

> > Parishishtha, Mesha etc. rashis are conspicuous by their absence

from

> > all of them, so much so that Rik and Yajur Jyotisham do not

mention

> > anything about Mangal, Shani etc. planets either.

> > Thus there cannot be any doubt in anybody's mind that the so

called

> > Vedic astrology is anything but Vedic!

> >

> > Since there is no Vedic astrology at all, we cannot prove a non-

> > existent " stream of knowledge " as a science, least of all " a

science

> > of all sciences " !

> > It is as simple as that, whatever logic or arguments anyone may

try

> > to put forward in support of his/her contention.

> > And as already repeated hundrds of times, the oly " benefit " the

Hinus

> > are reaping from such cruel joke is that they are being uprooted

from

> > their real cultural moorings by being compelled to celebrate

> > Uttarayana on any day but the shortest day of the yar and so on!

> > Again, that is also as simple as that!

> > With regards,

> > A K Kaul

> > , " prashanthnair999 "

> > prashanthnair999@ wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > respected Kaul ji

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > namaskar

> > >

> > > With all respect to u and ur knowledge i hav simple

request ,let us

> > b

> > > more open and not so rigid on unprooved or yet to b prooved

beyond

> > doubt

> > > matters because we r now looking for DNA testing even in case of

> > our own

> > > father .because we want proof ??or we dont like to blv other

wise .

> > >

> > > i am not interested in arguements which will not lead no where

> > >

> > > but one thing greeks were never termed as yavanas ,in that case

> > unani

> > > medicine we shud indebted to them same is with many words in use

> > with

> > > yavana or yunan etc even in kerala jonaka -yavana we call for

> > muslims so

> > > it is termed as a usage for out of caste or sphere persons

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > the words yavanahi mlecha or mlechahi yavana is used by sage

garga

> > not

> > > varhamihira ,Mihira was quoting it

> > >

> > > i dont blv the book published day as the creation of knowledge

> > day .If

> > > it is true if i write some books and which may make all books

> > obselete

> > > in future and did it mean that the knowledge derived in 21

> > centruy ??

> > >

> > > i dont blv with valid reasons we imported astrology but may b

some

> > > interaction might hav happened ( like in todays moon probe we do

> > many

> > > things better than US or Russia does it mean that we r

better ,which

> > > they will adopt tomorrow as we will b sharing this knowledge

with

> > them )

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > also i dont blv all vedas ( knowledge ) were avilable for all

ppl

> > freely

> > > with valid reasons .even we know veda s ( 4 vedas ) edited ,so

what

> > it

> > > indicates ??its crude form we lost right ??

> > >

> > > so its futile to see all in vedas ,wheter its is ayurveda or

> > dhanuveda

> > > or jyothirveda or other sastras frm kama sastra to yoga

sastra .as

> > vedas

> > > r not text book for these sastas .Also we dont know how much we

> > lost in

> > > preserving it .

> > >

> > > Now almost all books on tantra due its secrecy is still not

avilable

> > > ,may b in gupt form it is preserved i dont know .

> > >

> > > so next time i am not interested in such futile exercises .

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > if we go by much hitlerisation of vedas communities ,like his

> > > aryanisation cocept .The communities which has no or less

reference

> > like

> > > which were tantric or naga or saiva or bhavani worshippers like

ur

> > kaul

> > > kula is also out of vedas and if u insist all shud go out of

> > hindustan

> > > ??then where will it end ??

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > so let us not dig to that extent .

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I am stopping here as i cannot type what ever arguemnts and

proofs

> > comes

> > > in my mind .

> > >

> > > in india even poojas r known as AGamas ( which has came or

> > adopted ) so

> > > is astrology ,means frm where greeks ?? what abt meluha

culture ??

> > indus

> > > culture known to out side world and which has given its

impression

> > tru

> > > out world ??what abt tantra culture ,saiva culture ?? so many

> > indiginous

> > > forms ??

> > >

> > > In indus valley i suppose they dont hav any books un earthted

till

> > today

> > > ,so we can assume that they r illiterates ?/right ??

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > so see this links too

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > /message/847

> > > </message/847>

> > >

> > > /message/848

> > > </message/848>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > regrds prashanth

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

> > > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Shri Prashanth Nairji,

> > > > Namaskar!

> > > >

> > > > <......But never so deep and so mathematically correct this

> > > > science (astrology)was developed in any other country except

> > India.>

> > > >

> > > > To the best of my knowledge, there is no indigenous work of

> > planetary

> > > > astronomy vis-a-vis Mesha etc. Rashis prior to the Surya

Sidhana

> > of

> > > > Maya the mlechha! And it is an open secret by now that Maya

was a

> > > > Greek astrologer and the Surya Sidhanta is not a work

of " Surya

> > > > Bhagwan " as claimed by Maya, but an extremely monstrous

> > astronomical

> > > > work which is anything but accurate!

> > > > You can check the results for yourself about differences in

mean

> > > > planetary longitudes of the SS vis-a-vis modern astronomy

through

> > > > Mahesh program at HinduCalendar forum.

> > > >

> > > > As against this lack of interest in planetary knowledge in

ancient

> > > > India there are clay tablets of about 7th millenium BCE from

> > > > Babylonia referring to planets and even Mesha etc. rashis!

> > > >

> > > > <.....from this he started calculating the speed and exact

> > > > positions of the planets, various zodiacs and constellations;

from

> > > > this Astrology developed.>

> > > >

> > > > Zodiac is just one! there cannot be more than one zodiacs

> > > > astronomically! Similarly, it is impossible to calculate the

speed

> > > > of various constellations, since every star (components of a

> > > > constellation!) has a speed of its own! We cannot

calculate " mean

> > > > average " of the sum-total of varying speeds of all the stars

in a

> > > > constellatio and then ascribe that " Average speed " to a

> > > > constellation! That is an impossible task!

> > > >

> > > > Obviously, astrology is anything but scietnific! It is all a

> > wishful

> > > > thinking directly related to human weakness which had been

> > exploited

> > > > by Babylonia to the hilt! Vedic Seers were actually immune to

such

> > > > weakness, as will be evident from all the Vedas, where we are

> > > > strictly advised to believe in " Purusharth " .

> > > >

> > > > The so called Vedic works of astrology like Atharva Veda

> > Parishishta

> > > > and Atharva Jyotisha are works of post Atharva-Veda era,

though

> > prior

> > > > to the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the mleccha, since we find Mesha

> > etc.

> > > > Rashis in the SS for the first time.

> > > >

> > > > The astrological principles adumbeated in those works of post

> > Atharva-

> > > > Veda eta are more sinister than even Brihat Samhita! If we go

by

> > the

> > > > dictates of these so called " jyotisha-vedas " , you can rest

assured

> > > > that we as Hindus will be annihilated sooner than later as a

Hindu

> > > > community completely and we do not need any Lashkare-Tayeba

to do

> > > > that!

> > > >

> > > > That the Vedic seers made exact caluculations of planets is

also a

> > > > wishful thinking since judging from the Vedanga Jyotisha of

> > Acharya

> > > > Lagadha (14th century BCE) or even the Parashara Sidhanta etc.

> > there

> > > > is nothing to show that the Vedic Seers could calculate

planetary

> > > > longitudes vis-a-vis Kritika etc. nakshatras----leave alone

Mesha

> > > > etc. rashis, which were non-existent then in Inia---correctly!

> > Even

> > > > about the nakshatra divisions, there is no uniform opinion

since

> > in

> > > > ancient India also, there were unequal nakshatra divisions

which

> > were

> > > > later " converted " into 27 equal divisions for computational

ease!

> > > >

> > > > The million dollar question that remains unanswered is as to

even

> > if

> > > > we presume that the real Vamadevas were astro-buffs, how on

earth

> > did

> > > > they calculate their horoscopes, with the miserably incorrect

> > > > astronomical parameters to calculate even mean longitudes of

the

> > sun

> > > > and the moon, as is evident from the Vedanga Jyotisha of

Lagadha

> > > > which has taken 366 days as the duraton of a year!

> > > > Then again, how on earth were birth times recorded in ancient

> > India

> > > > since we did not have any other " cloks " except ghati yantra

to do

> > > > that! And do you think that every house-hold had such a

yantra to

> > > > note the time of birth of every human being? Or do you mean

to say

> > > > that every " Ayah " had such a ghati yantra with her while

> > attending to

> > > > her " clients " at the time of delivery! And again, when even

> > > > electronic watches of today do not keep their pace with Atomic

> > Time,

> > > > how do you suppose that we could do so in ancient India!

> > > >

> > > > IT IS VERY EASY TO INDULGE IN WISHFUL THINKING BUT WE CANNOT

> > OVERLOOK

> > > > THE FACT THAT TILL ABOUT 1960, EVEN MODERN ASTRONOMERS WERE

> > UNAWARE

> > > > OF DELTA TIME! AND THAT TIME DIFFERENCE COULD BE AS MANY AS

SEVEN

> > > > DAYS IN ABOUT 10000 BCE! In 3102 BCE, the presumed start of

Kali

> > > > Era, it was about 21 hours as per " almighty " Lahiri's Tables

of

> > the

> > > > Sun itself!

> > > > As such, by such grandiloquent attitudes, we are actually

making a

> > > > laughing stock of ourselves in the eyes of the whole world,

all

> > just

> > > > to authenticate our wrong presumptions that the real Vamadevas

> > were

> > > > astro-buffs!

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > <Atharva-ved depicts Jyotish-Astrology- as the fourth organ of

> > > > Vedas out of six. It is called Netra (eye) of the community.

> > According

> > > > to the Vedas the movement and the Drashti Avm Vedh (aspects

and

> > > > conjunctions) of the stars do affect not only the humanity,

but

> > the

> > > > forces of nature even like rains, cold, heat etc.>

> > > >

> > > > Jyotisha as Netra of the Vedas is in the sense of astronomy---

that

> > > > also for finding suitable tithi, nakshatra etc. for Vedic

rituals.

> > > > This has been made clear in the most ancient indigenous

> > astronomical

> > > > work viz. the Vedanga Jyotisha (14th century BCE)and also the

last

> > > > indigenous sidhanta viz. the Sidhanta Shiromani of Bhakara-II!

> > > >

> > > > <You will be surprised to note that even the Anushasan Parva

of

> > > > Mahabharat gives complete list of Constellations and guides

about

> > the

> > > > alms to be given during the span of each and every Nakshatras

> > > > (Constellations). In Bhishma Parva the results of death in the

> > > > Uttarayana and Dakshinayana are depicted in details (so

Bhishma

> > chose

> > > > to die in Uttarayana).>

> > > >

> > > > It is all astronomy vis-a-vis muhurtas---as per the VJ of

> > Lagadhaand

> > > > not predictive astrology!

> > > >

> > > > <The Udyog Parva details the " Ashubh Yoga " due to certain

planets a

> > > > constellations.>

> > > >

> > > > We have yet to find any references to any plaentary

conbinations

> > in

> > > > the birthcharts of any prominent person whether Yudishthira or

> > even

> > > > Duryadhana --- leave alone Bhagwan Krishna---in the Mbh or any

> > other

> > > > Purana! The Mbh. has quite a few references to planetary

movements

> > > > vis-a-vis nakshatras but there is no guarantee that they are

not

> > > > later interploations! Even if we presume them to

be " oroginal " ,

> > how

> > > > on earth were those movements calculated since we do not find

any

> > > > references to any works in any of the Puranas or the Mbh etc.

> > which

> > > > talk of calculating plaentary longitudes vis-a-vis krittika

> > > > etc.nakshatras!

> > > >

> > > > In the same Mbh. Bhishma Pitamaha has come down heavily on

> > naksahtra-

> > > > soochis (who are known as " Vedic astrologers " thee days!) and

has

> > > > advised that a king must treat them as chandalas even if they

are

> > > > brahmins! As such, it is all a wishful thinking---a very

sinister

> > > > thinking at that---to fire " astrological guns " from the

shoulders

> > of

> > > > the Atharva Veda or the Mbh. etc.

> > > >

> > > > We have been taken in by this ploy by the Greeks to

subjugagte us

> > to

> > > > predictive gimmicks so that we became more fatalists than

anything

> > > > else, and the net result has been that we are celebrating

> > Uttarayna --

> > > > the same Uttarayana in which Bhishma shed his mortal coil---

not on

> > > > the shortest day of the year but on a day as " prescribed "

> > > > by " almighty Lahiri " and Lahiriwalas---thanks to the uniring

> > efforts

> > > > of " Vedic astrologers " .

> > > >

> > > > If we really want to save the real Vedic dharma, we have to

treat

> > > > predictive astrology not as a science or as a branch of the

Vedas

> > but

> > > > as really the greatest fraud on the Vedas!

> > > > My humble request to all Hindus, therefore, is that in their

over-

> > > > zealous urge to establish the " rule " of pedictive gimmicks as

> > > > unqeustioned, they must at least spare the real Vamadevas!

> > > > With regards,

> > > > A K Kaul

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , " prashanthnair999 "

> > > > prashanthnair999@ wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > In almost all civilizations and developed cultures the

science

> > of

> > > > > foretelling future was cultivated, be it Sumer, Egypt,

Babylone,

> > > > Indus,

> > > > > China or Greece. But never so deep and so mathematically

correct

> > > > this

> > > > > science was developed in any other country except India. Our

> > Rishis

> > > > and

> > > > > Acharyas were at the top in many a faculty of science, like

> > > > Medicine,

> > > > > Physics, Chemistry, Astronomy and Astrology. Since times

> > immemorial

> > > > man

> > > > > wondered about the moving and comparatively steady objects,

> > > > twinkling in

> > > > > the sky by night; from this he started calculating the

speed and

> > > > exact

> > > > > positions of the planets, various zodiacs and

constellations;

> > from

> > > > this

> > > > > Astrology developed.

> > > > >

> > > > > The greatness of our sages lies in the fact that they

studied

> > it so

> > > > deep

> > > > > that they could ascertain the effect of the starts even on

non-

> > > > living

> > > > > substances. Not only this but research goes on in this

science

> > from

> > > > the

> > > > > Vedic Age to this date.

> > > > >

> > > > > The basic idea underlying this research was to serve the

> > community

> > > > at

> > > > > large. Atharva-ved depicts Jyotish-Astrology- as the fourth

> > organ of

> > > > > Vedas out of six. It is called Netra (eye) of the community.

> > > > According

> > > > > to the Vedas the movement and the Drashti Avm Vedh (aspects

and

> > > > > conjunctions) of the stars do affect not only the humanity,

but

> > the

> > > > > forces of nature even like rains, cold, heat etc.

> > > > >

> > > > > In the " Brahmanas " (treaties on Vedas), too, Asgtrology is

given

> > > > much

> > > > > importance. The Narad-Sanatkumar dialogue in the Chhandogya

> > section

> > > > of

> > > > > Sam Brahmana, Astrology is given due preference out of

> > 14 'Vidyas'.

> > > > The

> > > > > Taiteraiya Brahaman gives details of the movement of Surya,

> > Prithvi

> > > > and

> > > > > hours, the days and nights, ( " break " and " fall " ). You will

be

> > > > surprised

> > > > > to note that even the Anushasan Parva of Mahabharat gives

> > complete

> > > > list

> > > > > of Constellations and guides about the alms to be given

during

> > the

> > > > span

> > > > > of each and every Nakshatras (Constellations). In Bhishma

Parva

> > the

> > > > > results of death in the Uttarayana and Dakshinayana are

> > depicted in

> > > > > details (so Bhishma chose to die in Uttarayana). The Udyog

Parva

> > > > details

> > > > > the " Ashubh Yoga " due to certain planets a constellations.

> > > > >

> > > > > According to the Indian mythology there are 18 Acharya of

> > Astrology.

> > > > >

> > > > > (1) Surya (2) Brahma (3) Vyas (4) Atri (5) Parasar (6)

Kashyap

> > (7)

> > > > > Vashishtha (8) Narad (9) Garga (10) Marichi (11) Muni (12)

> > Angiras

> > > > (13)

> > > > > Lomash (14) Paulish (15) Chyavan (16) Yavan (17) Manu (18)

> > Shaunak

> > > > >

> > > > > Lord Surya gave this Shastra first of all to Brahma, the

> > creator,

> > > > who

> > > > > taught this science to Garga, Badrayan(vyas), Angiras etc.

Thus

> > the

> > > > > science went on developing and to this date it has

developed so

> > far

> > > > that

> > > > > it can be called an ocean.

> > > > >

> > > > > In fact Astrology is the fundamental science of all the

> > sciences. It

> > > > > touches every aspect of one's life, be it health, family,

real

> > > > estate,

> > > > > money, legal tangle, romance, marital relations, luck,

business,

> > > > > industry, profession or service, even the death, too, can be

> > > > predicted

> > > > > from this. (Of course it is generally forbidden to predict

one's

> > > > death

> > > > > forthwith.. An astrologer can say that the period is not

good

> > for

> > > > health

> > > > > or to be cautious about accidents, etc.)

> > > > >

> > > > > The modern science, too, knows about the influence of

planets.

> > The

> > > > tide

> > > > > and the ebb are results of certain positions of the Sun and

the

> > > > Moon.

> > > > > Likewise the planets can affect on our blood circulation,

too.

> > Weak

> > > > Moon

> > > > > makes one's mind weak or unstable or one is apt to be weak

> > > > physically.

> > > > > The Sun and the Moon does not affect human beings only, but

they

> > > > affect

> > > > > the vegetation also. Generally flowers blossom by the

morning

> > but

> > > > the

> > > > > white Lily blossom by night, the red or pink lotus blossom

on

> > the

> > > > day

> > > > > break.

> > > > >

> > > > > Even the animals, too, have profound effect of the Sun and

the

> > > > Moon. The

> > > > > ires of cat changes according to the phases of Moon. They

affect

> > > > even

> > > > > the sexual impulses not only in the human beings but also

> > amongst

> > > > the

> > > > > animals. The effect of the planets is more sharp on the

> > animals, as

> > > > they

> > > > > come to know about the impeding danger very soon. Before an

> > > > earthquake,

> > > > > the serpants come out of their bidings, so do other

animals. The

> > > > birds,

> > > > > too, fly here and there. During the eclipse of the Sun the

> > birds go

> > > > into

> > > > > slumber.

> > > > >

> > > > > Who is not interested in knowing one's future ? Even the

> > scientists

> > > > try

> > > > > to enter into the future. We know about the past and

present.

> > But

> > > > can't

> > > > > we know about the future ? There should be some way to know

it.

> > The

> > > > > scientists call it futurology. This science is being

developed

> > > > since a

> > > > > couple of decades and astrology, too, has got a footage in

the

> > prime

> > > > > place in futurology. Astrology gives much weightage to the

> > stars.

> > > > >

> > > > > Astrology is divided into 3 parts. " Sidhdhant "

> > > > (Principles), " Sanhita "

> > > > > (Compilation) and " Hora " Astrology (Jyotish ) is called the

> > > > principal

> > > > > organ of the Vedas, too. Jyotish means Jyoti + Ish (Ishasya

> > Jyotih)

> > > > the

> > > > > light of the God. This has references in the Vedas,

Brahmanas

> > > > (treaties

> > > > > on the vedas), Panini Sutras, Puranas etc. Vedang Jyotish,

an

> > > > ancient

> > > > > book on astrology, gives much of details regarding this

science.

> > > > Vedang

> > > > > means organ of the vedas ( Vedanam Angam), so Jyotish is

not the

> > > > Veda

> > > > > itself, but a very important part of the Vedas.(Surya

> > Sindhdhant) an

> > > > > authentic book on Astronomy by Bhaskaracharya I, give much

> > > > prominence to

> > > > > Astrology also. It details almost all the principles of

> > Astrology

> > > > based

> > > > > on Astronomy. Now it is a known fact that in ancient times,

> > Hindus

> > > > > excelled in astronomy as well as astrology. The " Siddhant

Ganit "

> > > > gives

> > > > > detailed calculations about the years, months and days

passed by

> > > > till

> > > > > the date of its writing. Likewise the " Ayan " (solastics),

> > Seasons,

> > > > > movements of the planets, the solar and lunar eclipses,

date (

> > > > Tithi ),

> > > > > Constellations, Yoga , karan or the tangential positions

etc.

> > are

> > > > > written with great exactness. Even the 'Vedh-Yantras'

(sextants

> > and

> > > > > telescopes), too might have been used by the astronomers of

the

> > > > ancient

> > > > > age in India. And had deep knowledge about Khagol

(Astronomy).

> > > > >

> > > > > The other two parts of Astrology, Hora avm Sanhita deal

with the

> > > > > prediction aspect of Astrology. The word Hora has been

coined

> > from

> > > > > " Ahoratra " according to Varahmihir ( " Ho " from Aho and Ra

from

> > > > Ratra ).

> > > > > As per HoraShastra one's life chart is drawn, as per the

> > positions

> > > > of

> > > > > various planets and zodiacs (Rashi). The planets are placed

in

> > > > various

> > > > > rashies as they are there at the time of one's birth. This

> > chart or

> > > > map

> > > > > of one's life is variously called 'JanmaLagna', 'Janmagam'

or

> > > > > JanmKundali. Predictions are based on this.

> > > > >

> > > > > In the Sidhdhant part, predictions regarding the rains,

storms,

> > > > > earthquakes, comets, asteroids, eclipses, " VastuShastra " ,

> > subsoil

> > > > water.

> > > > > Yagnas and the Muhurtas (good and bad omens), gems, effect

of

> > > > planets

> > > > > and constellations on nations, twitching of skin on parts of

> > > > bodies, (

> > > > > Anga - Sfuran )etc. are given with such great exactness

that one

> > > > gets

> > > > > amazed. All these they have given for the benefit of the

people

> > at

> > > > > large.

> > > > >

> > > > > Bha = light Ratam Iti Bharatam

> > > > >

> > > > > The country has never seen a dark age like witnessed by

Europe

> > or

> > > > other

> > > > > countries of Asia and Africa (China can be an exception).

The

> > > > ancient

> > > > > sages and scholars of India had constructed

various " Yantras " to

> > > > study

> > > > > Astrology and framed basic yet infallible principles of it

like

> > > > division

> > > > > of the sky in 12 Rashies, (Zodiacs) and 27 Nakshatras,

> > > > (Constellations).

> > > > > Also the Indian Astrologers have given the relative speeds

of

> > the

> > > > > planets and satellites. Not only this but the speed has been

> > divided

> > > > > into Kala, Vikala etc. which today be calculated on the

basis of

> > > > hours,

> > > > > minutes and seconds. So, one must be proficient in

mathematics

> > to

> > > > give

> > > > > correct predictions.

> > > > >

> > > > > India is proud for having great astronomers like Arya

bhatta,

> > Varah

> > > > > Mihir, Bhrama Gupta, Munjal, Bhatotpal, Shatanand,

> > Bhaskaracharya I

> > > > &

> > > > > II. They were basically great astronomers, but have also

given

> > great

> > > > > treaties on Astrology and have served the states in which

they

> > were

> > > > > given the chair of " Astrologer Royal " ( Raj Jyotishi ) and

> > through

> > > > the

> > > > > states they served the community at large, too. Takshshila,

> > Kashi,

> > > > > Ujjaini, Tanjaur, and Nalanda were the great Vidhyapithas,

where

> > > > > astronomy and astrology were taught. Here the Vedhshalas

> > > > (observatories)

> > > > > flourished. The Ravan Samhita, Pulatsya Samhita, Jambali

> > Samhita,

> > > > Indra

> > > > > Samhita, Surya Samhita, Arun Samhita, Jaimini Samhita, Rudra

> > > > Samhita are

> > > > > authentic works on astrology.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thus astrology is imbedded thorough and thorough in our

lives.

> > Even

> > > > a

> > > > > lay man may be, out of curiousity only, is interested in

this

> > > > science.

> > > > > This gives rise to religiousness. Most of the people take

and

> > follow

> > > > > advice of Jyotishi still many a people are apt to belittle

this

> > > > great

> > > > > science as superstition and bigotary. They never miss an

> > > > opportunity to

> > > > > degrade this science, when a prediction goes haywire. But

nobody

> > > > blames

> > > > > the medical science, if an operation fails or nobody blames

the

> > > > > judiciary, if he/she losses a suite. So why blames

astrologers

> > and

> > > > > especially astrology for prediction which may not prove 100%

> > > > correct ?

> > > > >

> > > > > This is a blasphemy. As the science has been developed by

great

> > > > > astronomers and astrologers of the past. But the most in

human

> > > > > aggressions by the foriegners and our ignorance of this

valuable

> > > > > knowledge, we have lost many more about this science. By

this

> > reason

> > > > > create a doubt on this science. Not only this the pseudo-

> > > > astrologers,and

> > > > > money minded astrologers who misguide the people and

devalued

> > > > astrology.

> > > > > But Astrology is excellent science. So till now a day people

> > have

> > > > not

> > > > > only trust but confidence too on Astrology. So many

ctriticism

> > > > developed

> > > > > in front of Astrology, inspite of this astrology maintained

its

> > own

> > > > > existence.

> > > > >

> > > > > The pseudo-astrologers of our age have almost completed this

> > > > viscious

> > > > > circle. More so those who have real knowledge, are mostly

> > greedy who

> > > > > almost squeeze their clients. This has led to further

decline.

> > All

> > > > other

> > > > > sciences like, physics, mathematics, chemistry, medical

science,

> > > > > sociology, economics deal with one subject only, but

astrology

> > deals

> > > > > with almost all the faculties.

> > > > >

> > > > > So Astrology is not only a science, but a science of all

> > sciences.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Shri Prashanth Nairji,

Namaskar!

This post reads like a sermon and I am unable to make either head or

tail of the same. Would you kindly serialize your points of view

instead of doing this freewheeling.

Dhanyavad.

AKK

 

, " prashanthnair999 "

<prashanthnair999 wrote:

>

>

>

>

> respected Kaul ji

>

>

>

> namaskar

>

> With all respect to u and ur knowledge i hav simple request ,let us

b

> more open and not so rigid on unprooved or yet to b prooved beyond

doubt

> matters because we r now looking for DNA testing even in case of

our own

> father .because we want proof ??or we dont like to blv other wise .

>

> i am not interested in arguements which will not lead no where

>

> but one thing greeks were never termed as yavanas ,in that case

unani

> medicine we shud indebted to them same is with many words in use

with

> yavana or yunan etc even in kerala jonaka -yavana we call for

muslims so

> it is termed as a usage for out of caste or sphere persons

>

>