meditation and meat-eating

[Guest guest]

ok, a question to my esteemed colleagues

(and please excuse this aquarian-monkey ;-)

 

IF we can acknowledge that the DL and tibetan monks are meat eaters

AND by any valuation consider them to be masters of meditation, insight

and knowledge, worthy of reverence and respect

HOW is it that some can confidently state in categorical terms that

monks should not eat meat because it is too tamasic?

it is an opinion that is not informed by the reality

 

i say this not tell you vegies out there that you start necessarily

eating meat, unless of course you consider it to be wise measure,

practiced by the wise, for the benefit of your own happiness and health

 

- but rather, you cannot logically classify it as tamasic by ignoring

the evidence - if vegies eat meat after not eating it for a long while,

it will cause some digestive problems initially (probably making them

feel heavy and congested); similarly, a meat eater will experience

digestive problems by switching to a pure vegetarian diet (probably

making them feel too light, cold and dry)- but if either choice is

gradual, sustained and wisely undertaken the body will adapt - and what

an adaptable body we have - the only decision is which will benefit

your health in the long run, and this you should understand without

limiting prejudices

 

todd

 

>

> I agree with him, the Dalai Lama and other Tibetan Buddhist sects are

> meat eaters. And yes, the traditional Bon culture has got its own

> place in Tibetan Buddhism (you observe their deities/paintings/temple

> decoration/festivals to know that). But the fact that the Dalai Lama

> is a meat eater does not affect me in any way and I rever him.

 

> Therefore we should keep in mind the nature of work and ashrama of

> the patient before advising diet or medicine. We cannot advice either

> rajasic or tamasic food to the monk

 

Caldecott

todd

www.toddcaldecott.com

[Guest guest]

So what did Buddha Himself say about vegetarianism and meat eating?

 

ayurveda, Todd Caldecott <todd@t...>

wrote:

> ok, a question to my esteemed colleagues

> (and please excuse this aquarian-monkey ;-)

>

> IF we can acknowledge that the DL and tibetan monks are meat eaters

> AND by any valuation consider them to be masters of meditation,

insight

> and knowledge, worthy of reverence and respect

> HOW is it that some can confidently state in categorical terms

that

> monks should not eat meat because it is too tamasic?

> it is an opinion that is not informed by the reality

[Guest guest]

http://www.purifymind.com/DalaiLamaVege.htm

 

The Dalai Lama is not vegetarian. However he was for a while and a

lot of people think he still is, the following summary should help

to clarify the situation.

Despite common Western beliefs, Tibetans, including Tibetan monks,

are generally not vegetarian. There is an argument that the high

cold mountain region makes it impracticable to grow sufficient plant

food, which readers will have to judge for themselves. Apparently

there is a tradition of praying for animals before they are

slaughtered and not taking any more than are necessary, similar to

stories that have been told about Native Americans.

In the mid 1960s the Dalai Lama was in Kerala, Southern India, where

a high proportion of the local population have always been

vegetarian. Their tradition, as with other parts of India, is of

lacto-vegetarianism, using a modest amount of milk products (but not

eggs). Whilst there the Dalai Lama decided to become vegetarian but

then proceeded to live on a bizarre diet consisting entirely of milk

and nuts. If this is true, and it seems to be well documented, it

would have been an extremely high fat and very unhealthy diet by any

standards. After 18 months he became very ill and his doctors,

unsurprisingly, blamed it on the lack of meat rather than advising a

better balanced vegetarian diet. He was persuaded to return to meat-

eating and has done so ever since.

Meanwhile in 1967, during the Dalai Lama's vegetarian period, the

IVU held its bi-annual World Vegetarian Congress in India, only the

second time outside of Europe since the congresses started in 1908.

It's not clear whether the Dalai Lama actually attended, though it

seems he probably did and gave a speech at the opening ceremony. He

might have just sent a message to the delegates, but either way he

said and/or wrote the following:

I do not see any reason why animals should be slaughtered to serve

as human diet when there are so many substitutes. After all, man can

live without meat. It is only some carnivorous animals that have to

subsist on flesh. Killing animals for sport, for pleasure, for

adventures, and for hides and furs is a phenomenon which is at once

disgusting and distressing. There is no justification in indulging

in such acts of brutality.

In our approach to life, be it pragmatic or otherwise, the ultimate

truth that confronts us squarely and unmistakably is the desire for

peace, security and happiness. Different forms of life in different

aspects of existence make up the teeming denizens of this earth of

ours. And, no matter whether they belong to the higher group as

human beings or to the lower group, the animals, all beings

primarily seek peace, comfort and security. Life is as dear to a

mute creature as it is to a man. Just as one wants happiness and

fears pain, just as one wants to live and not to die, so do other

creatures.

- The Vegetarian Way, 19th World Vegetarian Congress 1967

The above was quoted in a 'The Extended Circle' by Jon Wynne-Tyson,

published in 1985, unfortunately without the background story

explaining the context of the quotes. The book is a collection of

quotes from throughout history, many of which have since been used

in huge variety of other publications. The lack of context has

caused considerable confusion, made worse as subsequent uses of the

quote have often not given the date, making it appear more recent.

The following was received on April 20, 2001:

I have had the privilege of being a Buddhist student of His Holiness

and he stated that on doctor's orders he does eat meat every other

day. He does not eat much as it is against the precepts but has been

working on being vegan. - Kelly, California

[Guest guest]

Hey

I'm an Aquarian too !! But moon sign wise I'm a Leo. So beware !!! He he he

he....

 

Yes, the Dalai Lama is a meat eater and also an excellent meditator.

But during his visit to Orissa a few years earlier, when I accompanied

his entourage, as a layman, to the Tibetan Buddhist Refugee Camp near

Berhampore, I listened to him exhorting his countrymen to learn the art

of vegetable cultivation so that they could reduce their dependance on

meat.

 

I am very fortunate that I was able to touch the feet of this Living

Buddha and could receive his personal blessings. I have visited many

Buddhist monasteries in Sikkim including the famous Rumtek Monastery.

 

He also explained, at a congregation in the US, that he was a reluctant

meat eater. Unfortunately in Orissa he could not visit the Jagannath

Temple as he is used to consuming red meat. It was very sad to hear him

pleading with the then CM for a darshan. The CM too was very apologetic

that Jagannath could not meet Jagannath !! He was advised to visit

Orissa again during the Ratha Yatra festival when Lord Jagannath would

venture out of the Temple to bless all devotees.

 

However diet depends on various conditions. We have to take all factors

into consideration. Meat eaters will be meat eaters and vegans will be

vegans. This battle will, I'm sure, continue till the end of creation.

 

I wonder what they serve in heaven? Or hell for that matter !!!

 

Regards,

Jagannath.

 

> ok, a question to my esteemed colleagues

> (and please excuse this aquarian-monkey ;-)

> IF we can acknowledge that the DL and tibetan monks are meat eaters

> AND by any valuation consider them to be masters of meditation,

insight

> and knowledge, worthy of reverence and respect

> HOW is it that some can confidently state in categorical terms that

> monks should not eat meat because it is too tamasic?

[Guest guest]

Dear kelly

your statement in this messege that the kerala people are vegeterians in high

proportion is mislesding and away from the reality.you need to check the reality

in my opinion except the nambudaries and other brahmin cast of kerala who are

very little in number were vegetarians but now this too is found altered and

most of the people in kerala are fish and meat eaters

 

alstrup <alstrup wrote:

http://www.purifymind.com/DalaiLamaVege.htm

 

In the mid 1960s the Dalai Lama was in Kerala, Southern India, where

a high proportion of the local population have always been

vegetarian. Their tradition, as with other parts of India, is of

lacto-vegetarianism, using a modest amount of milk products (but not

eggs).

[Guest guest]

> So what did Buddha Himself say about vegetarianism and meat eating?

 

nothing - the buddha wasn't concerned about it or what people ate, only

that they should eat to nourish their body and not their desire

this is the middle way, something he discovered when he nearly killed

himself fasting, before he attained nirvana, and saw that such penance

achieves nothing except pain and suffering

 

lord buddha wasn't interested in this food or that food, and nor was he

interested in astrology, puja and other brahmanic practices and rituals

- he considered them extraneous to the path to realization, in much the

same way that ramana maharishi and the upanishadic sages approached the

subject

Caldecott

todd

www.toddcaldecott.com

 

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public

relations, for Nature cannot be fooled."

-Richard P. Feynman

[Guest guest]

rajas is a state of mind, war loving, sex loving , so

anger, sex ,emotions maybe induced by meat to some

extent, But there are countires where you canot see

vegetation at all , so they eat meat. food may

influence once thought but this is not a general rule,

but a matured person canot be influenced by food .

it is called maturity .

food has no relation ship with spiritualism if your

mind is stable .

R.vidhyasagar.

 

 

--- Todd Caldecott <todd wrote:

 

> > So what did Buddha Himself say about vegetarianism

> and meat eating?

>

> nothing - the buddha wasn't concerned about it or

> what people ate, only

> that they should eat to nourish their body and not

> their desire

> this is the middle way, something he discovered when

> he nearly killed

> himself fasting, before he attained nirvana, and saw

> that such penance

> achieves nothing except pain and suffering

>

[Guest guest]

Meat, as flesh foods, has a certain vibration,which caters to the

lower chackras of the body,while vegitarian food nourishes the

higher chackras, and the lymph system, as meat has no chlorophyl.

 

 

People who eat lots of meat, tend to have crude animal quailties

(though it was sad Hitler was a vegitarian).

 

I live in a place where meat consumption is heavy, particulary canned

corned beef, spam, bbq meat, and no wonder the highest incidence of

diabetes, heart disease, kidney disease in all the U.S., as well as

cancer too.

 

ayurveda, Todd Caldecott <todd@t...>

wrote:

> > So what did Buddha Himself say about vegetarianism and meat

eating?

>

> nothing - the buddha wasn't concerned about it or what people ate,

only

> that they should eat to nourish their body and not their desire

> this is the middle way, something he discovered when he nearly

killed

himself fasting, before he attained nirvana, and saw that such

penance

> achieves nothing except pain and suffering

[Guest guest]

I have been a vegetarian since 1987, but eat fish oils for long chain Omega-3

EFA's and also in 1998 started eating fish for extra convenient protein.

 

An isolated but memorable experience: In 2001 I was in South India and

unkowingly happened to pick up an ayurvedic preparation (aswagandhadi lehyam)

made with goat meat juice. I believed I had purchased the vegetarian version.

Within 24 hours after taking it twice daily, I became so raving lusty, I could

only compare it with the crazy peak of my teenage years! What a nightmare!

Fortunately it quickly subsided when I stopped taking it, about 24-36 hours. One

day later I went to the pharmacy and they translated the malayam language on the

label and admitted it was with goat. The version without the goat ingredient

gave me no such experience.

It is also my definite experience that foods pick up the vibration induced by

the person who prepared it. Fortunately this can be removed by prayer and

certain energetic tools.

 

Hitler was NOT a vegetarian, that is a myth! Read this article by John Robbins.

http://www.foodrevolution.org/askjohn/47.htm

[Guest guest]

Dear Vidhyasagarji,

 

Namaskar. Yes, if the mind has sincerely chosen the spiritual life then

nothing can distract it from the goal.

 

Regards,

Jagannath.

 

ayurveda, r vidhyasagar

<dr_vidhyasagar_54> wrote:

> food has no relation ship with spiritualism if your

> mind is stable .

> R.vidhyasagar.

[Guest guest]

Eating meat as a food,has a relationship with spiritualism,because a

spiritual person does not kill animals for sport or food.

 

Look at Mahatma Gandhi for an example.

 

ayurveda, r vidhyasagar

<dr_vidhyasagar_54> wrote:

> but a matured person canot be influenced by food .

> it is called maturity .

> food has no relation ship with spiritualism if your

> mind is stable .

> R.vidhyasagar.

[Guest guest]

Dear Friends,

 

This is what David Frawley has to say in the book, "Ayurvedic

Healing", Indian Edition 2003, Published by Motilal Banarsidass,

Chapter "Ayurvedic Diet", Page 80.

 

--------------------

 

DIET AND THE MIND

-----------------

 

In Vedantic philosophy the mind is considered to be the essence of

food. The Upanishads state, "The food that is eaten is divided

threefold. The gross part becomes excrement. The middle part becomes

flesh. The subtle part becomes the mind." (Chandogya Upanishad

VI.4.1). According to the common adage, "We are what we eat." What we

eat affects our emotions and can create a predisposition for both

psychological and physical disorders. Just as wrong emotions can

upset our digestion, so wrong digestion can upset our emotions.

 

We should consider also the spiritual qualities of the food we take

in. Does it enhance our mental processes and peace of mind? Or is it

disturbing? It is for this reason that meat, however nourishing, is

not a good food. It has the energy of death and brings the forces of

violence and decay, and the negative emotions of fear and hatred

along with it.

 

 

 

To understand the above we may have to refer to the comments of

Menaka Gandhi, an animal rights supporter, who argues that the

violence, fear and hatred generated within the mind of the animal

being slaughtered effects its endocrinal system to generate powerful

toxins, which in turn affect the persons partaking of the meat.

 

Again The Mother of Aurobindo Ashram, Pondicherry says that we imbibe

the qualities of the animal which is slaughtered and its meat

consumed.

 

Actually the comments of The Mother of Pondicherry made me give up

meat which anyway does not agree with my system. Today I have lost

all taste for non vegetarian items. But I cannot strictly enforce

this self imposed ban always as being a Bengali, I am forced to

consume fish when I visit my relatives at times. No amount of

arguement holds good there.

 

Regards,

Jagannath.

[Guest guest]

> In Vedantic philosophy the mind is considered to be the essence of

> food. The Upanishads state, "The food that is eaten is divided

> threefold. The gross part becomes excrement. The middle part becomes

> flesh. The subtle part becomes the mind." (Chandogya Upanishad

> VI.4.1). According to the common adage, "We are what we eat." What we

> eat affects our emotions and can create a predisposition for both

> psychological and physical disorders. Just as wrong emotions can

> upset our digestion, so wrong digestion can upset our emotions.

>

> We should consider also the spiritual qualities of the food we take

> in. Does it enhance our mental processes and peace of mind? Or is it

> disturbing? It is for this reason that meat, however nourishing, is

> not a good food. It has the energy of death and brings the forces of

> violence and decay, and the negative emotions of fear and hatred

> along with it.

 

with all due respect to Frawley, he is just bending elements of the

truth to suit his vegie philosophy

inherent in this statements there is a confusion here between the mind

and the brain

the "mind" or manas is the buddhi misdirected by ahamkara, confusing

physical self for Self

the brain is a physical organ responsible for generating the mind, and

is nourished via the manovaha srota, which extends upwards from the

heart (hence the heart is the seat of the mind) - the brain receives

nourishment from the heart, including the sukshma rasa which has

energetic effects upon consciousness

 

what Frawley inserts here is his supposition that the sukshma rasa from

meat has negative effects upon consciousness - this is not what the

Chandogya upanishad states or what is found in ayurveda, and nor from

our discussions has anyone presented any convincing evidence of this

 

the concept of sukshma rasa is a component of all almost all cultures -

each had some idea that ingested substances (via the five senses) have

an influence upon consciousness, for e.g. the chinese always valued

pork because they believed that the animal was very smart, and hence,

this "subtle essence" (sukshma rasa) was transferred to the mind, and

made people more clever

 

everything has the energy of death - the jainas have already taken us

through this, but if we believe lord buddha there is a middle path, and

we must avoid the pitfall of reducing the nature of spirit to purely

material considerations

 

i also have trouble with the notion that we are what we eat - in fact,

we are what we eat AND what we do not eliminate

hence, people who absorb negative emotions (because of an inherent

sensitivity) and do not effectively get rid of them (e.g. through

creative activities, physical movement, prayer/meditation, etc.) will

accumulate these subtle poisons which will then affect their

consciousness and resultant actions

 

Caldecott

todd

www.toddcaldecott.com

 

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public

relations, for Nature cannot be fooled."

-Richard P. Feynman