The original version of Happy Xmas by John Lennon profoundly mentions Hare Krishna - Page 2

Sarva gattah · 12-03-2008, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theist

Forget about it sheesh.

Always been a bit slow but eventually I will work out what your saying. sorry about that prabhu.

Quote:

Originally Posted by theist

I think you should listen to the song again, Are you suggesting someone replaced John's original happy xmas with happy Christmas?

Um, yes xmas meant Christmas to John but there IS no mention of the real spirit of Christmas, Jesus, in his song.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Actually I still don't know what you mean. Well maybe this is what you mean - to John and to many who just go by Sound, xmas and Christmas are the same. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
However, I personally see xmas spelling for Santa clause and Christmas for the birth of Jesus. Sometimes, like many, I may have used the word xmas simply because its a shorter word to type. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
But to really remind people of the true spirit of Christmas, then it should be spelt 'Christmas' because it is Jesus Christs birthday<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Lennon has always used the word xmas for his song however, same cover versions portray baby Jesus in that song. I personally don't think he meant christs birthday but only Yoko knows that.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
So YOU ARE RIGHT, who am I to judge weather he acknowledged JESUS or not. It's just that in the song he doesn't.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
DID i GET IT RIGHT THIS TIME?? <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
JESUS CHRIST!!

Deathless · 12-03-2008, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suchandra

If you're an atheist this might be right from your honoured point of view.

Why would I have to be an atheist to consider that we shouldn't be panicking about something that I'm sure John would care very little about? I just don't see why you guys see this as such an enormous tragedy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by suchandra

Since John included Hare Krsna in a couple of his songs he surely wasn't an atheist.

I'm pretty sure he was.

http://www.counterpunch.org/lennon12082005.html
1971 interview by Tariq Ali and Robin Blackburn:

Quote:

Tariq Ali: Your latest record and your recent public statements, especially the interviews in Rolling Stone magazine, suggest that your views are becoming increasingly radical and political. When did this start to happen?
John Lennon: ... In my case I've never not been political, though religion tended to overshadow it in my acid days; that would be around '65 or '66. And that religion was directly the result of all that superstar shit--religion was an outlet for my repression. I thought, 'Well, there's something else to life, isn't there? This isn't it, surely?'
Later in the interview:
... At one time I was so much involved in the religious bullshit that I used to go around calling myself a Christian Communist, but as Janov says, religion is legalised madness. It was therapy that stripped away all that and made me feel my own pain.
... Well, his thing is to feel the pain that's accumulated inside you ever since your childhood. I had to do it to really kill off all the religious myths. In the therapy you really feel every painful moment of your life--it's excruciating, you are forced to realise that your pain, the kind that makes you wake up afraid with your heart pounding, is really yours and not the result of somebody up in the sky. It's the result of your parents and your environment.
As I realised this it all started to fall into place. This therapy forced me to have done with all the God shit. All of us growing up have come to terms with too much pain. Although we repress it, it's still there. The worst pain is that of not being wanted, of realising your parents do not need you in the way you need them.
... Most people channel their pain into God or masturbation or some dream of making it.
... It's a bit of a drag to say so, but I don't think you can understand this unless you've gone through it--though I try to put some of it over on the album. But for me at any rate it was all part of dissolving the God trip or father-figure trip. Facing up to reality instead of always looking for some kind of heaven."

Quote:

Originally Posted by suchandra

For him it is therefore rather a tragedy how they garbled, mangled his songs.

http://www.recmusicbeatles.com/publi...y/lennon3.html
Playboy Interview, 1980

Quote:

"The first line [of I Am the Walrus] was written on one acid trip one weekend. The second line was written on the next acid trip the next weekend, and it was filled in after I met Yoko. Part of it was putting down Hare Krishna. All these people were going on about Hare Krishna, Allen Ginsberg in particular. The reference to "Element'ry penguin" is the elementary, naive attitude of going around chanting, "Hare Krishna," or putting all your faith in any one idol. I was writing obscurely, a la Dylan, in those days."

He disliked religion and all religious activity, including the chanting of Krishna's name. He probably only included Hare Krishna in his later songs to mock ISKCON and it's followers.

Deathless · 12-03-2008, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarva gattah

Agree, Although this is how I humbly saw the history I lived through --

Historically, if we look at this history of the 1960s that many of us lived through as teenagers, we understand the Beatles years was the beginning of a great cultural and religious shift.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
This was enhanced by the hippie movement of so called peace and love, made more popular by the fame of the Beatles and the communications revolution of TV, Radio and Print media. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
This also includes the famous 'peace' saying of Hare Krishna that came from both Prabhupada and Ginsberg in 1966.

Also, 'Xmas' to Lennon was NEVER about Jesus, it was about his peace and free love trip that he got off Ginsberg, Leary and Kesey.

Also, 'Hare Krishna' to Lennon was NEVER about Krsna originally at the beginning of 1967, it was just another word for 'peace'. The 'saying' of Hare Krsna was just another way to say 'peace man' Turn on, tune in, drop out" and was part of a counterculture phrase originally coined by Timothy Leary and Alan Ginsburg in the 1960s.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Later on however, it's real meaning was explained by Prabhupada when he lived at Lennon’s Mansion that frankly, Lennon did originally like due to his search for truth but unfortuately, his wife Yoko detested. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
She never liked the devotees, that's an historical fact and frankly John never got into the real understanding of Hare Krishna either. Only George Harrison did that<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Like many historical events, the interest is various; many could not care about this. Does this really matter?<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Not really, this was started simply because I listened to an old version of happy xmas and could hear not just Hare Rama, but Hare Krishna CLEARLY as well, then hear the modern version where its now simply not there.

Yes, and by the time of his death he was an atheist. So, I still don't see why he would care. Based on his later statements, I would assume that he would consider himself chanting Hare Krishna to be an embarrassment and would have no problem having it removed from all of his old recordings.

Deathless · 12-03-2008, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suchandra

Sorry but this wasn't my quote, I said the opposite, John Lennon is for sure rolling around in his grave. He couldn't perform any other spiritual activity except include Hare Krsna in his songs and this is being destroyed by a bunch of atheists.

He was one of that "bunch of atheists" that considered ISKCON and chanting to Krishna an abomination.

Quote:

Originally Posted by suchandra

It is intolerable and should be battled against by all means.

I really don't think he would care as much about this as you seem to.

thehat · 12-04-2008, 01:21 AM

I had been under the impression that he was an atheist, though he did take an interest in the teachings Prabhupad was sharing. I haven't read the book "Chant and be happy" but some devotees say that John is pretty into it, but due to the influence of Yoko Ono he subsequently rejects what he otherwise would've accepted. Apparently, Yoko Ono tries hard to attack Prabhupada in that book.

Also, I found these particular quotes from lennon.

Quote:

In a 1965 Interview: "Christianity will go. It will vanish and shrink. I needn't argue with that; I'm right and I will be proved right. We're more popular than Jesus now; I don't know which will go first - rock and roll or Christianity."
"I believe in God, but not as one thing, not as an old man in the sky. I believe that what people call God is something in all of us. I believe that what Jesus and Mohammed and Buddha and all the rest said was right. It's just that the translations have gone wrong."

theist · 12-04-2008, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Um, yes xmas meant Christmas to John but there IS no mention of the real spirit of Christmas, Jesus, in his song.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Actually I still don't know what you mean. Well maybe this is what you mean - to John and to many who just go by Sound, xmas and Christmas are the same. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

Sarva, my dear brothersoul, you are thinking too much. It is simple. Listen to the song from youtube that suchandra put on this thread and you hear Lennon says happy christmas and merry christmas and never happy xmas.

That's it bro. Personally I don't give &^%* what John Lennon meant. He was a cool guy to our generation and any namabhasa chanting he did will bring him great rewards but who cares for his opinion on anything spiritual?

We don't take the mantra from him or Allen Ginsberg or any of the hundreds of new age guru's. We accept in the mood that Srila Prabhupada chanted and distributed the Holy Name and from him.

Don't worry about this thing. I am with Deathless, much ado about very little.

Chant and be happy.

suchandra · 12-04-2008, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theist

Chant and be happy.

Good point, don't talk, better stick to krishna-katha.

<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/p9ai1aSNAo4&hl=de&fs=1&color1=0xe1600f&color2=0xfe bd01"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/p9ai1aSNAo4&hl=de&fs=1&color1=0xe1600f&color2=0xfe bd01" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

gHari · 12-04-2008, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theist

Exactly true. But you posted the supposed real original lyrics of Lennon's song and put xmas where he said Christmas in a post criticizing the changing of lyrics.

No, he just copy and pasted from the webpage he gave us. Some other heathen satan monster scumbag zit-devil dirtbag paramecium wrote 'Xmas'.

mahak · 12-08-2008, 05:37 PM

yeah. Nothing worse than a heathen satan monster scumbag zit-devil dirtbag paramecium. Except maybe a heathen satan monster scumbag zit-devil dirtbag paramecium heathen satan monster scumbag zit-devil dirtbag paramecium

Thats the worst, the heathen satan monster scumbag zit-devil dirtbag paramecium who misses the paste button and erases everything he just typed.

Me? Im a satan monster scumbag zit-devil dirtbag paramecium, but Im not a heathen.

mad mahax