Shadow of Mordor grows longer- gay "marriage" California - Page 2

stonehearted · 09-21-2005, 08:17 PM

AM:

Quote:

The weirdy-beardie college professors only tell people the beat poet part of Kerouac's life and they leave the part out where it turns out Kerouac hated Ginsberg and ended up becoming a Republican.

And some others forget that he ended up a Republican who was so goddamned miserable that he drank himself to death. I remember when Kerouac died, just a few weeks after I got out of the Navy.

I heard a six-hour tape recording of a conversation among Ginsburg, Leary, and Gary Snyder (whom I've met), recorded on Snyder's boat in 1967. The very first words spoken in this conversation were "Hare Krishna," and the first topic of conversation was "the Swami, whom they discussed for about 15 minutes.

krsna · 09-22-2005, 04:06 AM

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Kulapavana · 09-22-2005, 10:53 AM

"I appreciate your objectivity on the manner instead of just towing the liberal line"

thank you for your kind words. I'm a kshatriya by nature so the liberal line is naturally foreign to me [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

many devotees are quite naive and simplistic in their understanding of the world - they often have no idea how deep is the manipulation of consciousness in our society. It makes me sick when I see devotees thinking of crooks like Bush to be sura, or a godly person... or abominations like Ginsberg to be honorable men, worthy of our respect.

stonehearted · 09-22-2005, 02:39 PM

Kulapavana, you're probably more "liberal" in many ways than many would recognize, although the popular label doesn't fit you well. As a broadminded teacher, Srila Prabhupada was liberal enough that he could engage even someone like Ginsburg and create some sukriti in his life. Ginsburg's good fortune was that he had some appreciation for Srila Prabhupada's character and work and was willing to use his celebrity to help him in whatever ways he could, and that Srila Prabhupada is broadminded enough to be willing to engage such a person. The rest of Ginsburg's life should be of no interest to us because it has nothing to do with Krishna consciousness.

Kulapavana · 09-22-2005, 03:19 PM

"Ginsburg's good fortune was that he had some appreciation for Srila Prabhupada's character and work and was willing to use his celebrity to help him in whatever ways he could, and that Srila Prabhupada is broadminded enough to be willing to engage such a person. The rest of Ginsburg's life should be of no interest to us because it has nothing to do with Krishna consciousness."
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not always. for example: when devotees say with some pride that someone like A.Ginsberg took interest in our movement, the entire life of that person becomes relevant

09-22-2005, 03:46 PM

I was a dishwasher at a major college, and the fugs were playing on the lawn outside the cafeteria. There were many wierd songs, but when I took my break, and went out to see the fun, ginzberg was playing harmonium and the fugs, tuli kuperfberg, et all, were madly ecstatic by the holy names. Alan ginzberg gave an address about favoring the lewdness of the statue that was being censored by the college, but then began speaking of a swamiji who taught him about transcending even dire politics.

Yes, Krsna will sort it out. Hes not the lightening bolt that scourges sinners, He is truely attracted to the Sound of His own Names, and this is how he recognizes our activities in this form, or so has been said by the authorities. If Yamaraja came to him, it was just to chant with him, because, according to the story of ajamila, ginzberg is out of His dutiful jurisdiction.

Hare krsna, ys, mahak

stonehearted · 09-22-2005, 06:12 PM

Kulapavana:

Quote:

when devotees say with some pride that someone like A.Ginsberg took interest in our movement, the entire life of that person becomes relevant

I'll grant you that, on the condition that it applies equally to others whose lives may not be as obviously objectionable. One example would be George Harrison, whom I've always admired. Still, he hung on to anarthas such as cigarette smoking, car racing, and others, a fact many devotees are very eager to ignore. Moreover, he showed affinity for other approaches to spiritual life, which devotees also conveniently ignore. The same would go for any celebrity who has shown some interest in Krishna consciousness.

Kulapavana · 09-23-2005, 09:14 AM

"I'll grant you that, on the condition that it applies equally to others whose lives may not be as obviously objectionable. One example would be George Harrison, whom I've always admired. Still, he hung on to anarthas such as cigarette smoking, car racing, and others, a fact many devotees are very eager to ignore."

yes, you are right. that appreciation should apply equally. I'll even go further:

both Ginsberg and Harrison gave to Prabhupada only a very small part of what was at their disposal.

HOW MUCH MORE GLORIOUS ARE THE OFTEN FORGOTTEN DEVOTEES WHO OFFERED PRABHUPADA THEIR LIFE AND SOUL?

how do we treat them in our movement? I could give you dozens of heart breaking examples from personal experience, but I'm sure you could do the same.

theist · 09-23-2005, 01:57 PM

Points well taken. All should be seen equally regardless of their wordly fame or lack thereof.

Of those that are famous like Harrison and Ginsberg though to view them fairly I still see a wide gulf between the two. In fact to equate the two seems rather offensive to me. As Krsna was calling Srila Prabhupada away and closing his bodily earthly ministry Prabhupada took the ring off his own hand and had it sent to George. That says a lot to me.

Kulapavana · 09-23-2005, 02:43 PM

there is no doubt in my mind that G.Harrison was more dear to Prabhupada - there was a very deep and definite connection there. but equal vision means measuring all people with the same standard.

stonehearted · 09-23-2005, 04:06 PM

I agree entirely. And the standard is whether they ever expressed any appreciation for Lord Chaitanya's mission and rendered some service. Was Harrison dearer to Srila Prabhupada than Ginsberg? I have little doubt about that. Did Srila Prabhupada wish Allen well? No doubt of that, either. And that seems like everything right there. My business is to follow his lead.

But dearest to Srila Prabhupada are those who have sacrificed everything for his service.