Indians aren't Aryans (or Dravidians)?

09-21-2004, 01:38 AM

--- In vedichistory (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "kishore mohan"
<kishore_future@y...> wrote:
--- In IndiaArchaeology (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, JK <tiptronicus@g...> wrote:
http://www.gnxp.com/MT2/archives/002712.html?entry=2712

There is a important new paper (you can view the full PDF if you
follow the link) out that surveys the genetics of South Asians viewed
from the angle of mtDNA, that is, the direct female lineage. If you
follow this stuff, you won't be surprised to find out that the authors
conclude that "Since the initial peopling of South and West Asia by
anatomically modern humans, when this region may well have provided
the initial settlers who colonized much of the rest of Eurasia, the
gene flow in and out of India of the maternally transmitted mtDNA has
been surprisingly limited." Why surprising you say? Well, about 3/4 of
South Asians speak Indo-Aryan languages which have an affinity with
other branches of the Indo-European family, and likely derive from the
environs of the eastern Black Sea. The "conventional model" was that
such a linguistic dominance implied a volkswanderung where the fair
skinned Aryans enslaved the dark skinned natives (Dasas), and the
broad spectrum of coloration that expresses itself in some concordance
with caste was the result of intermarriage between the two groups.

The problem with the model in light of the data above is that most of
the South Asian mtDNA pool seems to have diverged from the lineages of
Iran before 10,000 years ago, with many coalescence times on the order
of 30,000-50,000 years. Philological analysis makes South Asia an
implausible ur-heimat for Proto-Indo-European (PIE), so that seems to
scratch out the possiblity of a volkswanderung outward. But even a
possible expansion of "Dravidian" farmers during the Neolithic from
the Middle East (some linguists postulate an affinity between
Dravidian and an ancient language of Southwestern Iran, Elamite) seems
to have been moderate in its impact.

The work of Toomas Kivisild, one of the primary authors of this paper,
is the linchpin of the argument presented by Stephen Oppenheimer in
The Real Eve that India is the mother of all Eurasian lineages.
Oppenheimer's argument demands very little mixing between
subpopulations since the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM).

I did note that Oppenheimer seemed to ignore research headed by
Spencer Wells which pointed to a strong exogenous element in the
Indian genetic structure that displays a Northwest-Southeast cline.
Additionally, he did not publish late enough to read a more recent
paper that makes the argument for the expansion of a supermale lineage
in Northern India 3,500 years ago. These papers focused on the Y
chromosome, which seems to show more signatures of the "invasion" and
"immigration" that is characteristic of histories of the subcontinent,
but seeing as this is the male lineage and disruptive migrations are
likely "male mediated," this would not be surprising. Unlike the mtDNA
papers, there are those who dispute the exogenous origins of the
haplogroups in question, so I tend to think that a predominantly
indigenous (that is, lineages extent in South Asia prior to 10,000
years ago) narrative is more probable (that is, the case for mtDNA
being indigenous is stronger than that of the Y being exogenous).

Addendum: The authors note that Cochin Jews carry mtDNA lines that are
predominantly Indian. Unpublished data indicates that the Bene Israel
Jews of India have a high frequency of the Cohen modal haplotype, that
is, they share ancestry with other Jewish groups. Traditionally the
Cochin Jews have been more Jewishly aware than the Bene Israel and
maintained their contacts with the world Jewry, so I would be
surprised if their Y line was non-Jewish where the more outwardly
non-Jewish Bene Israel retain the Cohen signature.
--- End forwarded message ---

Other related messages :1) connection of Mizos with Israel
http://www.the-week.com/24sep12/curr...s_article1.htm
2)Connection of South Korea with Ayodhya through her princess
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/a...how/847880.cms
--- End forwarded message ---