Re: response to Visti

But I do want to thank Ramadas and Jay and Imran for such a great and selfless
amount of help - thankyou so much!!!!!!!! and all of the other list members
whom hav helped me so much - again thankyou !!!!!
Shamira
M
M
----- Original Message -----
From: monmuk111
To: vedic-astrology (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com
Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 7:12 AM
Subject: [vedic-astrology] response to Visti
Hello Visti:Your response about the "Soul" jives with the response that
Kanupriya just posted that upon attaining moksha, the soul becomes one with
god. This solves my puzzle.Visti, as to your notes on "discrimination," let me
remind you that 500 years of atrocities committed by the Muslim rulers against
my ancestors cannot be washed away by my attempt to live a righteous life. I
guess in my attempts to live a righteous life, I don't physically retaliate
against the Muslims. However, the verbal venom is a good release. Now, you may
say that having hate in my heart itself contradicts my attempt to be righteous.
However, you tell me--don't you feel hatred against the Muslims for the
atrocities commited by the Ottoman Turks in Europe (assuming your ancestors
came from Europe)? OR won't you feel hatred against the Muslims for the
atrocities being committed right now in the holy land against the Jews,
assuming you're a Jew?In any case, you answered my question regarding the atma
and I'd love to continue learning astrology on this board. Visti, I just posted
one more question on heaven and hell, please check it out and enlighten me once
more with your profound response if you have an opinion on this subject. Thank
you.MD> Vyam Vysaadevaaya Namah> >
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------->
> Dear MD,> The soul 'parks' its sense of individuality at the doorstep, and
realises that its non-different from the rest of bhagawan/allah/god.> > I am
deeply agrieved to see people use such discriminating words such as 'islamic
savage'. I would not dare teach astrology to someone who uses such words, or
has such values/beliefs, as this far from qualifies one from being fit to USE
this knowledge. What ill could a racist do with the knowledge of astrology? its
like giving a fisherman a torpedo.> > CORRECT YOURSELF! - Discrimination is also
a sin, and you won't be allowed into any higher lokas where there are any
'islamic savages'.. instead you will get a lower loka, with people of
like-minds. Free your mind.> > Best wishes, Visti.> > > ----- Original
Message ----- > From: monmuk111 > To: vedic-astrology@y... > Sent:
Friday, September 06, 2002 8:14 PM> Subject: [vedic-astrology] Re: Astrology
and Islam> > > Dear Sudharsan:> > Even better said, I respect the feelings
of others on this board and > will stop posting on this subject unless
provoked again by some > Islamic savage. > > On another point, you mention
that "we are permanent entities as > souls," I agree. However, if soul is
permanent, what is moksha? Does > moksha mean that the soul stops the cycle
of birth and re-birth? And > if this is what moksha is, then where does the
soul utlimately park > itself after attainig moksha?> > Sudarsan: I've
attempted to live a righteous life so that I (my soul) > attains moksha. Now,
does my past life sins withold me from attaining > moksha even though I've
lived a righteious life in the current life?> > Others on the board
knowledgeable on this subject are welcome to > enlighten me as well. Thank
you.> > MD > > --- In vedic-astrology@y..., Sudharsan Srinivasan
> wrote:> > > > Hare Rama Krishna> > Jaya Jagannatha>
> Dear List,> > I think its time we step on the brakes with this thread. This
type > of exchange certainly does not add to our knowledge nor does it >
encourage Sattwa which is very important in our learning.Maybe we > should
gain some more knowledge about the transmigration of the soul > and the fact
that we are spirit souls and NOT this body.Bodily > identification is the
root cause of all bondage and miseries in this > world.Some of us have Indian
bodies and others have chinese bodies , > American bodies and Pakistani
bodies. According to the Lord in the > Srimad Baghavad Gita, some of us who
identify ourselves as indians in > this birth could have been pakistanis or
Arabs in our previous > births.Can anyone here refute the same? Or can anyone
here guarantee > their birth again in India?> > We are spirit souls , part
and parcel of the Supreme Lord and since > He is permanent and we are
permanent entities as souls, a temporary > body should not be our
identification. It would help greatly if we > view the world through Guru,
Sadhu and Sashthra.> > Hare Krishna> > Sudharsan> > monmuk111
wrote:Hello Rampriya:> > > > Imran seems like a nice guy, at least he is
attempting transcend > the > > bounds of Islam and look at what other
cultures and religions have > to > > offer. There may be a fatwa on Imran's
head in Pakistan just for > > posting on this board. Maybe he'll have to run
away to India or US > or > > England to save his life. Hey Imran, if your
savage blood thirsty > > brothers kick you out of Pakistan, you're welcome to
make India > your > > home.--India has given citizenship to two hundred
million of your > > brothers, why not one more!!> > > > What amazes me is
that the the muslims in Inida forget that they're > > just a guest in India,
they were given their own separat homeland > > then why not move to their
homeland, Pakistan in the West and > > Bangladesh in the East? The intent and
essence of partition was > > separate homeland for Hindus and Muslims. The
Muslims got their > > homeland, then why are they still in India. Hindus are
too nice, > the > > Hindus should have removed EACH and EVERY muslim after
the > partition > > from Hindustan and shipped them to WestPakistan and
East Pakistan.> > > > Every time I visit India or the middle east (I'm
scared to visit > any > > country in the middle-east except Bahrain), I
have a bitter > > experience of the muslim savages. However, the Hindus are
loving, > > caring, sharing and above all open to a foreigner. The savages
who > > blew up the WTC and killed thousands of innocents made my >
sentiments > > about these savages even more stronger.> > > > Rampriya, I
wish you had posted your analysis in reponse to some > > blood thirsty savage
muslim like the ones who blew up the WTC and > the > > ones to kill innocent
Israeli civilians and the ones who rape, > > pillage and kill innocent
Kashmiri Pandits who've been living in > > Kashmir even before the religion
of the savages was born in 800 AD. > > Imran seems like a good man. > > >
> MD> > > > --- In vedic-astrology@y..., Ramapriya D
wrote:> > > > > > > > Hi Imran,> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear
Jagmeet, Qamar and List,> > > > > > Hello/Pranam, > > > > > > It is
usually said that astrology is strickly prohibited in Islam > > and there are
hundreds of Fatawa and opposing arguments about > > astrology.> > > > > >
> > > > > > Old hat. But who doesn't know the mindset of the blokes who
issue > > fatwas?> > > > > > > > > > > > Very few persons tried to
highlite the true picture. If our > > respected Hidu conferes do not mind
then I want to lay my personal > > opinion about the place of astrology in
Islam. Because I know this > > web-group is build to discuss, preech and
teach vedic astrology.But > I > > am penning as this forum is covering many
borders of occult > subjects.> > > > > > > > > > > > Great. You
must've also noticed that there are many excellent > > astrologers on this
group who aren't Hindu. Which is exactly how a > > body of knowledge should
always be kept and treated - divorced from > > religion to the extent
possible.> > > > > > > > > > > > "Because Islam is the fatest growing
> > > > > > > > > > > > The rate at which Muslims are proliferating
(at least in India), > > your statement will up to the sternest scrutiny.>
> > > > > > > > > > > and youngest religion of the world and many of its
education are > > beyond geography, caste and colour, therefore its `culture
or > > civilization' has still been evolving, > > > > > > > > > > >
> Just a minute. This reminds me of khilafat, which I'll come to > > laterbut
tell me, where did the term kafir originate from? A kafir > is > > a
heretic, and whoever doesn't embrace Islam is a kafir. Is this or > > isn't
this preached? > > > > > > > > > > > > although its essentials are
completed and compiled in the form of > > Quran and Hadees(the collections of
sayings of Prophet Muhammad). > > > > > > > > > > > > Bingo! The
essentials are in the Koran but the pert > interpretations > > are all done
by your well-meaning cheerleaders like our own Imam > > Bukhari (next in line
for the Nobel Peace Prize, I hear).> > > > > > > > > > > > Looking at
the initial periods of Arab tradition we don't get any > > clue of astrology
in that region, but other techniques of fortune > > telling was in vogue
including witchcraft, alchemy and omen by > > observing sky, birds and sand
of desert. A mind of current age find > > lots of Hadeeses reveal many a
times Prophet Muhammad prohibited > such > > activities, superstitions and
cursed those who was involved in that > > business of prophecy. But very few
knows that, in the life of > > Muhammad no one was aware of astrology in the
Arab.> > > > > > > > > > > > After many years when Islam was spreaded
outside Arabian region, > > the muslim came across many of non-arab arts and
sciences and the > > scholars of those time adopted and learn the different
branches of > > knowledge.> > > > > > > > > > > > You omit
mentioning how Islam spread so far and wide - I mean, > all > > the
pillaging, looting, plundering, subjugating and raping of wide > > chunks of
innocent populaces by marauding Islamic invaders. Not > that > > the
Christian missionary conversion techniques here of dangling > > attractive
but non-existent economic benefits a lot better, but the > > historical
Islamic conversion techniques were surely a lot less > civil.> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Greek and Greece were the richest source of knowledge for >
Arab > > conquerers. Arab were been fimiliar with astology through Greek, >
and > > after that they study astrology thoroughly, make an authentic > >
research and build new postulates.> > > > > > > > > > > > In my
dictionary, a postulate is a guess or assumption. You sure > > you meant
that? Fits well, actually, but I'm just making sure.> > > > > > > > > >
> > Iran, Iraq, Central Asia and Turkey were the centres of > > astrological
knowledge. Al-Beruni was the first eminent muslim > > scholar who came India,
learn Sanskrit and Vedic literature and > then > > after translated Brihat
Samhita of Vrihamihira. The successors of > > Beruni developed new theories
on the basis of Beruni's work, which > he > > extracted from Indian souls.
At that time no major opposition > arised > > against astrology because
many of the religious scholars themselves > > know astronomy and astrology
very well. > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately today's Maulvis could
not differentiate between the > > fortunetelling that was practiced during
Muhammad's life and > present > > approach and philosophy of astrology.
Therefore we see lot of > > material full of opposing views and `Fatawas'.
The rigid mullahas > are > > blindly stick to the wordings of Prophet,
without comprehend the > > purpose and appraoch of Prophet's wordings. > >
> > > > > > > > > > Your maulvis aren't just rigid and non-conducive to
the spread > and > > acceptance of astrology, most of them are rogues. I
remember your > > khilafat movement of '96 very well, where the same maulvis
urged > all > > Muslims to unite into a single nation, regardless of
geographical > > boundaries or regional loyalties. Meaning, an Indian Muslim
must > > identify more with a Sudanese or Afghan Muslim than with his own >
> Hindu neighbour. And if he must respect a government, it should be > > one
as saintly as Saudi Arabia's: The Muslim ethos must always > > supersede the
Indian one. There's another aspect to khilafat, that > > which is tacit and
understood by the 'believers', and without also > > which Islam remains
incomplete: its ultimate aim is the > Islamization > > of the world. Like
Christianity, and unlike Hinduism, Islam is a > > proselytizing religion.
However, whereas the Christian West sends > > overtly gentle missionaries,
there are no such self-constraints on > > the Arab world. How did you think
the Taleban popped up in Oct 96? > > And what can you expect when the
majority of the pack wants to > follow > > a dog that barks thus?> > > >
> > > > > > > > Whereas, there is a learned and intellectual class who
donot > think > > Astrology beyond the teaching of Islam, they hold that
it's a > science > > cum art which should be given its right place. > > >
> > > > > > > > > Not all Hindus vouch automatically for astrology
either. In fact, > > the majority of Indians don't believe in the science.
But believers > > aren't regarded as heretics here, which your maulvis so >
deliberately > > propagate.> > > > > > > > > > > > I am again
recalling that there was not any existance of Asrology > > and even Palmisty
in the Arabian region at the time of Muhammad's > > life. So how it become a
sin, when there are not any Sura or Hadees > > prohibiting to consult or
practice 'astrology' directly. All the > > Hadees are with reference to those
techniques of fortunetelling > that > > was prevailed in the dark age of
Arabian history. The study of > > Astrology come under the Imam Ghazili's
category of Non-Revealed > > Knowledge. For which the fourth and last
criteria of Sharia > > i.e; `Ijtehad' (interpretation of any newly arises
problem/point in > > the light of Quran by the present savants and scholars
for the > > benefit of muslim as a whole) is always there to check its all
good > > and bad impacts on the society and then decide whether it should >
> allow or not.> > > > > > > > > > > > But why do you guys require
moral policing at all? And that too > by > > those that generate the
mentality that can't stomach the return of > > merely 3 Hindu temples from
the thousands desecrated and turned > into > > mosques by the aforesaid
Arab invaders?> > > > > > > > > > > > And that is the opinion of the
majority of educated muslims not > > only in Pakistan> > > > > > > > >
> > > .where they're in an utter minority. Thankfully, there are many > >
Muslims in India who're Indians first.> > > > > > > > > > > > but also
around the world. Through this message I want to ask the > > opponent, if
astrology is not allowed in Islam then how Jafr (a > > sacred numerical way
of delineating query and talisman making) > > and `Faal' (omen or presage
with the help of sacred book or > numbers) > > can be permitted.> > > >
> > > > > > > > Also ask how khilafat can be propogated? Or even fatwas? >
> > > > > > > > > > > Here I donot want to repeat the names of muslim
astrologers, > their > > work and the famouse rulers who favoured to
practice astrology, > > because this site is reserved for the propagation of
vedic > astrology. > > These few word are the answer of my personal
explation of the > > frequently asked question i.e; Astrology is prohibited
in Islam > why? > > and one of our web friend Mr.Jagmeet S Dheendsa, who
queried about > > relevent topic. The article attatched containing many good
> > perspective but with a losely translated Hadees without any > >
reference. > > > > > > In another mail our dear Qamar Waheed Naqvi required
the source > of > > quote someone used last week, In my view the actual
words are Ilm> > (knowledge) and Aalim(savant) not the astrology and
astrologer, but > > since there are many translations of Hazrat Ali's
"Nahij-ul-> Balagha", > > so instantly I can't write the correct name of
translator, though > I > > didn't use the quote but I will try to get the
correct wordings > from > > authentic sources. Qamar also wants to know
about the vedic > tradition > > in Pakistan or some useful web-links that
can hilight it. > Unfortunate > > you hardly find any site contianing
efforts or research work of > > Pakistani vedic astrologers, but its not mean
that there is not any > > astrologer or researcher performing this task. I
know many and I > > will inform you. But little knowledge is often
dangerous, so first > I > > myself collect complete information then write
any thing later. > > > > > > > > > > > > Imran, you've a great
opportunity to learn vedic astro here and > put > > it in good use there.
Most astrologers here are knowledgeable and > > nice [me excepted on both
counts ] and if you receive even half > > the amount of help I've got,
you'll learn twice as much as I have. > > Don't let go. Nothing succeeds like
failure, especially in this > > subject.> > > > > > > > > > > >
Regards,> > > > > > M.Imran> > > > > > > > > > > > Warm regards
from lovely Karnataka> > > > > > (from where you migrated),> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ramapriya> > > > > > > > > > > > PS: I hope I won't be
flamed for this post, but I sure wasn't > > trolling Imran, but just airing
my views.> > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> >
> Do You Yahoo!?> > > Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes> > > > >
> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT> > > > Archives:
http://www.egroups.com/group/vedic-astrology> > > > Group info:
http://www.egroups.com/group/vedic-astrology/info.html> > > > To
UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic-astrology-unsubscribe@e...> > > > .......
May Jupiter's light shine on us .......> > > > || Om Tat Sat ||
Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is
subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > >
---------------------------------> > Do You Yahoo!?> > Yahoo! Finance - Get
real-time stock quotes> > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >
ADVERTISEMENT> > > > Archives:
http://www.egroups.com/group/vedic-astrology> > Group info:
http://www.egroups.com/group/vedic-astrology/info.html> > To UNSUBSCRIBE:
Blank mail to vedic-astrology-unsubscribe@e...> > ....... May Jupiter's light
shine on us .......> > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu
|| > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.Archives: http://www.egroups.com/group/vedic-astrologyGroup info:
http://www.egroups.com/group/vedic-a...gy/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank
mail to vedic-astrology-unsubscribe (AT) egroups (DOT) com....... May Jupiter's light
shine on us .......|| Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Hi MD,

You dont have to go back too far in history to see how people can forget
previous animosities and come together as one - look at Germany in the
European Union. There is absolutely no antagonism towards Germans in Europe
anymore, though people who suffered through German actions are still alive
there. England bombed Dresden, one of the most beautiful German cities into
dust. Yet Germany today does not bear a grudge towards England, and there
are very cordial relationships between the two countries and peoples.
Germany bombed London during the blitz. Yet today, the English are not
really angry with the Germans, or the Japanese for their part or with the
Italians. In fact, people who were prisoners of war, often went back after
the war to meet up with the people who were their captors, as friendships
had been formed and even marriages. Yet both the Germans and the Japanese
were responsible for some very horrific things in the 20th century. Justice
can still be brought to bear without generalised anger at a whole people.

In these circumstances, keeping alive memories that are far more distant in
history (i.e. Muslim destruction of Hindu temples) seems to me quite
artificial. Neither you nor anyone you personally know were alive then. So
these angers are based on written sources. Your anger is directed at people
who were not alive then or responsible for those events. Their only
connection stems from the fact that they are either descended from that
lineage, or even converted to that particular belief system later! And your
stance on behalf of the Hindus is that you happen to be born into a
particular time and place in this life. Let it go.

Also, should your anger not be more correctly directed at the events that
are happening all around the world today? Look at Rwanda and the massacre of
the Tutsis while the world looked on. Look at the oppression of women in
Pakistan and Afghanistan where they are forbidden civil equalities. Look at
the dowry burnings in India. How about the civil wars in Africa that allow
vast populations to die of famine in the midst of plenty? How about the
abject poverty that subjects many people to long term, grinding suffering in
practically every country? This happens even in developed coutries - when I
first went to London, I was appalled by the number of people sleeping
outside in winter, in cardboard boxes. There is plenty to hate in todays
world without having to search through the mists of history. These are
current atrocities.

And the best thing is, it is actually possible for an individual, even
though on a very small scale, to do something about these. As someone once
said, it is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.

Regards,

Nimmi

----- Original Message -----
From: "monmuk111"
To:
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 10:42 PM
Subject: [vedic-astrology] response to Visti


>
> Hello Visti:
>
> Your response about the "Soul" jives with the response that Kanupriya
> just posted that upon attaining moksha, the soul becomes one with
> god. This solves my puzzle.
>
> Visti, as to your notes on "discrimination," let me remind you that
> 500 years of atrocities committed by the Muslim rulers against my
> ancestors cannot be washed away by my attempt to live a righteous
> life. I guess in my attempts to live a righteous life, I don't
> physically retaliate against the Muslims. However, the verbal venom
> is a good release.
>
> Now, you may say that having hate in my heart itself contradicts my
> attempt to be righteous. However, you tell me--don't you feel hatred
> against the Muslims for the atrocities commited by the Ottoman Turks
> in Europe (assuming your ancestors came from Europe)? OR won't you
> feel hatred against the Muslims for the atrocities being committed
> right now in the holy land against the Jews, assuming you're a Jew?
>
> In any case, you answered my question regarding the atma and I'd love
> to continue learning astrology on this board. Visti, I just posted
> one more question on heaven and hell, please check it out and
> enlighten me once more with your profound response if you have an
> opinion on this subject. Thank you.
>
> MD
>
>
> > Vyam Vysaadevaaya Namah
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------
> >
> > Dear MD,
> > The soul 'parks' its sense of individuality at the doorstep, and
> realises that its non-different from the rest of bhagawan/allah/god.
> >
> > I am deeply agrieved to see people use such discriminating words
> such as 'islamic savage'. I would not dare teach astrology to someone
> who uses such words, or has such values/beliefs, as this far from
> qualifies one from being fit to USE this knowledge. What ill could a
> racist do with the knowledge of astrology? its like giving a
> fisherman a torpedo.
> >
> > CORRECT YOURSELF! - Discrimination is also a sin, and you won't be
> allowed into any higher lokas where there are any 'islamic savages'..
> instead you will get a lower loka, with people of like-minds. Free
> your mind.
> >
> > Best wishes, Visti.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: monmuk111
> > To: vedic-astrology@y...
> > Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 8:14 PM
> > Subject: [vedic-astrology] Re: Astrology and Islam
> >
> >
> > Dear Sudharsan:
> >
> > Even better said, I respect the feelings of others on this board
> and
> > will stop posting on this subject unless provoked again by some
> > Islamic savage.
> >
> > On another point, you mention that "we are permanent entities as
> > souls," I agree. However, if soul is permanent, what is moksha?
> Does
> > moksha mean that the soul stops the cycle of birth and re-birth?
> And
> > if this is what moksha is, then where does the soul utlimately
> park
> > itself after attainig moksha?
> >
> > Sudarsan: I've attempted to live a righteous life so that I (my
> soul)
> > attains moksha. Now, does my past life sins withold me from
> attaining
> > moksha even though I've lived a righteious life in the current
> life?
> >
> > Others on the board knowledgeable on this subject are welcome to
> > enlighten me as well. Thank you.
> >
> > MD
> >
> > --- In vedic-astrology@y..., Sudharsan Srinivasan
>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hare Rama Krishna
> > > Jaya Jagannatha
> > > Dear List,
> > > I think its time we step on the brakes with this thread. This
> type
> > of exchange certainly does not add to our knowledge nor does it
> > encourage Sattwa which is very important in our learning.Maybe we
> > should gain some more knowledge about the transmigration of the
> soul
> > and the fact that we are spirit souls and NOT this body.Bodily
> > identification is the root cause of all bondage and miseries in
> this
> > world.Some of us have Indian bodies and others have chinese
> bodies ,
> > American bodies and Pakistani bodies. According to the Lord in
> the
> > Srimad Baghavad Gita, some of us who identify ourselves as
> indians in
> > this birth could have been pakistanis or Arabs in our previous
> > births.Can anyone here refute the same? Or can anyone here
> guarantee
> > their birth again in India?
> > > We are spirit souls , part and parcel of the Supreme Lord and
> since
> > He is permanent and we are permanent entities as souls, a
> temporary
> > body should not be our identification. It would help greatly if
> we
> > view the world through Guru, Sadhu and Sashthra.
> > > Hare Krishna
> > > Sudharsan
> > > monmuk111 wrote:Hello Rampriya:
> > >
> > > Imran seems like a nice guy, at least he is attempting
> transcend
> > the
> > > bounds of Islam and look at what other cultures and religions
> have
> > to
> > > offer. There may be a fatwa on Imran's head in Pakistan just
> for
> > > posting on this board. Maybe he'll have to run away to India or
> US
> > or
> > > England to save his life. Hey Imran, if your savage blood
> thirsty
> > > brothers kick you out of Pakistan, you're welcome to make India
> > your
> > > home.--India has given citizenship to two hundred million of
> your
> > > brothers, why not one more!!
> > >
> > > What amazes me is that the the muslims in Inida forget that
> they're
> > > just a guest in India, they were given their own separat
> homeland
> > > then why not move to their homeland, Pakistan in the West and
> > > Bangladesh in the East? The intent and essence of partition was
> > > separate homeland for Hindus and Muslims. The Muslims got their
> > > homeland, then why are they still in India. Hindus are too
> nice,
> > the
> > > Hindus should have removed EACH and EVERY muslim after the
> > partition
> > > from Hindustan and shipped them to WestPakistan and East
> Pakistan.
> > >
> > > Every time I visit India or the middle east (I'm scared to
> visit
> > any
> > > country in the middle-east except Bahrain), I have a bitter
> > > experience of the muslim savages. However, the Hindus are
> loving,
> > > caring, sharing and above all open to a foreigner. The savages
> who
> > > blew up the WTC and killed thousands of innocents made my
> > sentiments
> > > about these savages even more stronger.
> > >
> > > Rampriya, I wish you had posted your analysis in reponse to
> some
> > > blood thirsty savage muslim like the ones who blew up the WTC
> and
> > the
> > > ones to kill innocent Israeli civilians and the ones who rape,
> > > pillage and kill innocent Kashmiri Pandits who've been living
> in
> > > Kashmir even before the religion of the savages was born in 800
> AD.
> > > Imran seems like a good man.
> > >
> > > MD
> > >
> > > --- In vedic-astrology@y..., Ramapriya D
> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi Imran,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Dear Jagmeet, Qamar and List,
> > > >
> > > > Hello/Pranam,
> > > >
> > > > It is usually said that astrology is strickly prohibited in
> Islam
> > > and there are hundreds of Fatawa and opposing arguments about
> > > astrology.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Old hat. But who doesn't know the mindset of the blokes who
> issue
> > > fatwas?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Very few persons tried to highlite the true picture. If our
> > > respected Hidu conferes do not mind then I want to lay my
> personal
> > > opinion about the place of astrology in Islam. Because I know
> this
> > > web-group is build to discuss, preech and teach vedic
> astrology.But
> > I
> > > am penning as this forum is covering many borders of occult
> > subjects.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Great. You must've also noticed that there are many excellent
> > > astrologers on this group who aren't Hindu. Which is exactly
> how a
> > > body of knowledge should always be kept and treated - divorced
> from
> > > religion to the extent possible.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Because Islam is the fatest growing
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The rate at which Muslims are proliferating (at least in
> India),
> > > your statement will up to the sternest scrutiny.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > and youngest religion of the world and many of its education
> are
> > > beyond geography, caste and colour, therefore its `culture or
> > > civilization' has still been evolving,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Just a minute. This reminds me of khilafat, which I'll come
> to
> > > laterbut tell me, where did the term kafir originate from? A
> kafir
> > is
> > > a heretic, and whoever doesn't embrace Islam is a kafir. Is
> this or
> > > isn't this preached?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > although its essentials are completed and compiled in the
> form of
> > > Quran and Hadees(the collections of sayings of Prophet
> Muhammad).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Bingo! The essentials are in the Koran but the pert
> > interpretations
> > > are all done by your well-meaning cheerleaders like our own
> Imam
> > > Bukhari (next in line for the Nobel Peace Prize, I hear).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Looking at the initial periods of Arab tradition we don't get
> any
> > > clue of astrology in that region, but other techniques of
> fortune
> > > telling was in vogue including witchcraft, alchemy and omen by
> > > observing sky, birds and sand of desert. A mind of current age
> find
> > > lots of Hadeeses reveal many a times Prophet Muhammad
> prohibited
> > such
> > > activities, superstitions and cursed those who was involved in
> that
> > > business of prophecy. But very few knows that, in the life of
> > > Muhammad no one was aware of astrology in the Arab.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > After many years when Islam was spreaded outside Arabian
> region,
> > > the muslim came across many of non-arab arts and sciences and
> the
> > > scholars of those time adopted and learn the different branches
> of
> > > knowledge.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You omit mentioning how Islam spread so far and wide - I
> mean,
> > all
> > > the pillaging, looting, plundering, subjugating and raping of
> wide
> > > chunks of innocent populaces by marauding Islamic invaders. Not
> > that
> > > the Christian missionary conversion techniques here of dangling
> > > attractive but non-existent economic benefits a lot better, but
> the
> > > historical Islamic conversion techniques were surely a lot less
> > civil.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The Greek and Greece were the richest source of knowledge for
> > Arab
> > > conquerers. Arab were been fimiliar with astology through
> Greek,
> > and
> > > after that they study astrology thoroughly, make an authentic
> > > research and build new postulates.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In my dictionary, a postulate is a guess or assumption. You
> sure
> > > you meant that? Fits well, actually, but I'm just making sure.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Iran, Iraq, Central Asia and Turkey were the centres of
> > > astrological knowledge. Al-Beruni was the first eminent muslim
> > > scholar who came India, learn Sanskrit and Vedic literature and
> > then
> > > after translated Brihat Samhita of Vrihamihira. The successors
> of
> > > Beruni developed new theories on the basis of Beruni's work,
> which
> > he
> > > extracted from Indian souls. At that time no major opposition
> > arised
> > > against astrology because many of the religious scholars
> themselves
> > > know astronomy and astrology very well.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Unfortunately today's Maulvis could not differentiate between
> the
> > > fortunetelling that was practiced during Muhammad's life and
> > present
> > > approach and philosophy of astrology. Therefore we see lot of
> > > material full of opposing views and `Fatawas'. The rigid
> mullahas
> > are
> > > blindly stick to the wordings of Prophet, without comprehend
> the
> > > purpose and appraoch of Prophet's wordings.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your maulvis aren't just rigid and non-conducive to the
> spread
> > and
> > > acceptance of astrology, most of them are rogues. I remember
> your
> > > khilafat movement of '96 very well, where the same maulvis
> urged
> > all
> > > Muslims to unite into a single nation, regardless of
> geographical
> > > boundaries or regional loyalties. Meaning, an Indian Muslim
> must
> > > identify more with a Sudanese or Afghan Muslim than with his
> own
> > > Hindu neighbour. And if he must respect a government, it should
> be
> > > one as saintly as Saudi Arabia's: The Muslim ethos must always
> > > supersede the Indian one. There's another aspect to khilafat,
> that
> > > which is tacit and understood by the 'believers', and without
> also
> > > which Islam remains incomplete: its ultimate aim is the
> > Islamization
> > > of the world. Like Christianity, and unlike Hinduism, Islam is
> a
> > > proselytizing religion. However, whereas the Christian West
> sends
> > > overtly gentle missionaries, there are no such self-constraints
> on
> > > the Arab world. How did you think the Taleban popped up in Oct
> 96?
> > > And what can you expect when the majority of the pack wants to
> > follow
> > > a dog that barks thus?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Whereas, there is a learned and intellectual class who donot
> > think
> > > Astrology beyond the teaching of Islam, they hold that it's a
> > science
> > > cum art which should be given its right place.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Not all Hindus vouch automatically for astrology either. In
> fact,
> > > the majority of Indians don't believe in the science. But
> believers
> > > aren't regarded as heretics here, which your maulvis so
> > deliberately
> > > propagate.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I am again recalling that there was not any existance of
> Asrology
> > > and even Palmisty in the Arabian region at the time of
> Muhammad's
> > > life. So how it become a sin, when there are not any Sura or
> Hadees
> > > prohibiting to consult or practice 'astrology' directly. All
> the
> > > Hadees are with reference to those techniques of fortunetelling
> > that
> > > was prevailed in the dark age of Arabian history. The study of
> > > Astrology come under the Imam Ghazili's category of Non-
> Revealed
> > > Knowledge. For which the fourth and last criteria of Sharia
> > > i.e; `Ijtehad' (interpretation of any newly arises
> problem/point in
> > > the light of Quran by the present savants and scholars for the
> > > benefit of muslim as a whole) is always there to check its all
> good
> > > and bad impacts on the society and then decide whether it
> should
> > > allow or not.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > But why do you guys require moral policing at all? And that
> too
> > by
> > > those that generate the mentality that can't stomach the return
> of
> > > merely 3 Hindu temples from the thousands desecrated and turned
> > into
> > > mosques by the aforesaid Arab invaders?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > And that is the opinion of the majority of educated muslims
> not
> > > only in Pakistan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > .where they're in an utter minority. Thankfully, there are
> many
> > > Muslims in India who're Indians first.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > but also around the world. Through this message I want to ask
> the
> > > opponent, if astrology is not allowed in Islam then how Jafr (a
> > > sacred numerical way of delineating query and talisman making)
> > > and `Faal' (omen or presage with the help of sacred book or
> > numbers)
> > > can be permitted.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Also ask how khilafat can be propogated? Or even fatwas?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Here I donot want to repeat the names of muslim astrologers,
> > their
> > > work and the famouse rulers who favoured to practice
> astrology,
> > > because this site is reserved for the propagation of vedic
> > astrology.
> > > These few word are the answer of my personal explation of the
> > > frequently asked question i.e; Astrology is prohibited in Islam
> > why?
> > > and one of our web friend Mr.Jagmeet S Dheendsa, who queried
> about
> > > relevent topic. The article attatched containing many good
> > > perspective but with a losely translated Hadees without any
> > > reference.
> > > >
> > > > In another mail our dear Qamar Waheed Naqvi required the
> source
> > of
> > > quote someone used last week, In my view the actual words are
> Ilm
> > > (knowledge) and Aalim(savant) not the astrology and astrologer,
> but
> > > since there are many translations of Hazrat Ali's "Nahij-ul-
> > Balagha",
> > > so instantly I can't write the correct name of translator,
> though
> > I
> > > didn't use the quote but I will try to get the correct wordings
> > from
> > > authentic sources. Qamar also wants to know about the vedic
> > tradition
> > > in Pakistan or some useful web-links that can hilight it.
> > Unfortunate
> > > you hardly find any site contianing efforts or research work of
> > > Pakistani vedic astrologers, but its not mean that there is not
> any
> > > astrologer or researcher performing this task. I know many and
> I
> > > will inform you. But little knowledge is often dangerous, so
> first
> > I
> > > myself collect complete information then write any thing later.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Imran, you've a great opportunity to learn vedic astro here
> and
> > put
> > > it in good use there. Most astrologers here are knowledgeable
> and
> > > nice [me excepted on both counts ] and if you receive even
> half
> > > the amount of help I've got, you'll learn twice as much as I
> have.
> > > Don't let go. Nothing succeeds like failure, especially in this
> > > subject.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > M.Imran
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Warm regards from lovely Karnataka
> > > >
> > > > (from where you migrated),
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ramapriya
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > PS: I hope I won't be flamed for this post, but I sure wasn't
> > > trolling Imran, but just airing my views.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
> > >
> > > Archives: http://www.egroups.com/group/vedic-astrology
> > >
> > > Group info: http://www.egroups.com/group/vedic-
> astrology/info.html
> > >
> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic-astrology-unsubscribe@e...
> > >
> > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......
> > >
> > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> >
> > Archives: http://www.egroups.com/group/vedic-astrology
> >
> > Group info: http://www.egroups.com/group/vedic-astrology/info.html
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic-astrology-unsubscribe@e...
> >
> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......
> >
> > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>
>
> Archives: http://www.egroups.com/group/vedic-astrology
>
> Group info: http://www.egroups.com/group/vedic-astrology/info.html
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic-astrology-unsubscribe (AT) egroups (DOT) com
>
> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......
>
> || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Hare Rama Krishna
Dear MD,
This is ALL MAYA. Your birthright does not make you who you are.
Best wishes, Visti.

----- Original Message -----
From: monmuk111
To: vedic-astrology (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 11:42 PM
Subject: [vedic-astrology] response to Visti
Hello Visti:Your response about the "Soul" jives with the response that
Kanupriya just posted that upon attaining moksha, the soul becomes one with
god. This solves my puzzle.Visti, as to your notes on "discrimination," let me
remind you that 500 years of atrocities committed by the Muslim rulers against
my ancestors cannot be washed away by my attempt to live a righteous life. I
guess in my attempts to live a righteous life, I don't physically retaliate
against the Muslims. However, the verbal venom is a good release. Now, you may
say that having hate in my heart itself contradicts my attempt to be righteous.
However, you tell me--don't you feel hatred against the Muslims for the
atrocities commited by the Ottoman Turks in Europe (assuming your ancestors
came from Europe)? OR won't you feel hatred against the Muslims for the
atrocities being committed right now in the holy land against the Jews,
assuming you're a Jew?In any case, you answered my question regarding the atma
and I'd love to continue learning astrology on this board. Visti, I just posted
one more question on heaven and hell, please check it out and enlighten me once
more with your profound response if you have an opinion on this subject. Thank
you.MD> Vyam Vysaadevaaya Namah> >
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------->
> Dear MD,> The soul 'parks' its sense of individuality at the doorstep, and
realises that its non-different from the rest of bhagawan/allah/god.> > I am
deeply agrieved to see people use such discriminating words such as 'islamic
savage'. I would not dare teach astrology to someone who uses such words, or
has such values/beliefs, as this far from qualifies one from being fit to USE
this knowledge. What ill could a racist do with the knowledge of astrology? its
like giving a fisherman a torpedo.> > CORRECT YOURSELF! - Discrimination is also
a sin, and you won't be allowed into any higher lokas where there are any
'islamic savages'.. instead you will get a lower loka, with people of
like-minds. Free your mind.> > Best wishes, Visti.> > > ----- Original
Message ----- > From: monmuk111 > To: vedic-astrology@y... > Sent:
Friday, September 06, 2002 8:14 PM> Subject: [vedic-astrology] Re: Astrology
and Islam> > > Dear Sudharsan:> > Even better said, I respect the feelings
of others on this board and > will stop posting on this subject unless
provoked again by some > Islamic savage. > > On another point, you mention
that "we are permanent entities as > souls," I agree. However, if soul is
permanent, what is moksha? Does > moksha mean that the soul stops the cycle
of birth and re-birth? And > if this is what moksha is, then where does the
soul utlimately park > itself after attainig moksha?> > Sudarsan: I've
attempted to live a righteous life so that I (my soul) > attains moksha. Now,
does my past life sins withold me from attaining > moksha even though I've
lived a righteious life in the current life?> > Others on the board
knowledgeable on this subject are welcome to > enlighten me as well. Thank
you.> > MD > > --- In vedic-astrology@y..., Sudharsan Srinivasan
> wrote:> > > > Hare Rama Krishna> > Jaya Jagannatha>
> Dear List,> > I think its time we step on the brakes with this thread. This
type > of exchange certainly does not add to our knowledge nor does it >
encourage Sattwa which is very important in our learning.Maybe we > should
gain some more knowledge about the transmigration of the soul > and the fact
that we are spirit souls and NOT this body.Bodily > identification is the
root cause of all bondage and miseries in this > world.Some of us have Indian
bodies and others have chinese bodies , > American bodies and Pakistani
bodies. According to the Lord in the > Srimad Baghavad Gita, some of us who
identify ourselves as indians in > this birth could have been pakistanis or
Arabs in our previous > births.Can anyone here refute the same? Or can anyone
here guarantee > their birth again in India?> > We are spirit souls , part
and parcel of the Supreme Lord and since > He is permanent and we are
permanent entities as souls, a temporary > body should not be our
identification. It would help greatly if we > view the world through Guru,
Sadhu and Sashthra.> > Hare Krishna> > Sudharsan> > monmuk111
wrote:Hello Rampriya:> > > > Imran seems like a nice guy, at least he is
attempting transcend > the > > bounds of Islam and look at what other
cultures and religions have > to > > offer. There may be a fatwa on Imran's
head in Pakistan just for > > posting on this board. Maybe he'll have to run
away to India or US > or > > England to save his life. Hey Imran, if your
savage blood thirsty > > brothers kick you out of Pakistan, you're welcome to
make India > your > > home.--India has given citizenship to two hundred
million of your > > brothers, why not one more!!> > > > What amazes me is
that the the muslims in Inida forget that they're > > just a guest in India,
they were given their own separat homeland > > then why not move to their
homeland, Pakistan in the West and > > Bangladesh in the East? The intent and
essence of partition was > > separate homeland for Hindus and Muslims. The
Muslims got their > > homeland, then why are they still in India. Hindus are
too nice, > the > > Hindus should have removed EACH and EVERY muslim after
the > partition > > from Hindustan and shipped them to WestPakistan and
East Pakistan.> > > > Every time I visit India or the middle east (I'm
scared to visit > any > > country in the middle-east except Bahrain), I
have a bitter > > experience of the muslim savages. However, the Hindus are
loving, > > caring, sharing and above all open to a foreigner. The savages
who > > blew up the WTC and killed thousands of innocents made my >
sentiments > > about these savages even more stronger.> > > > Rampriya, I
wish you had posted your analysis in reponse to some > > blood thirsty savage
muslim like the ones who blew up the WTC and > the > > ones to kill innocent
Israeli civilians and the ones who rape, > > pillage and kill innocent
Kashmiri Pandits who've been living in > > Kashmir even before the religion
of the savages was born in 800 AD. > > Imran seems like a good man. > > >
> MD> > > > --- In vedic-astrology@y..., Ramapriya D
wrote:> > > > > > > > Hi Imran,> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear
Jagmeet, Qamar and List,> > > > > > Hello/Pranam, > > > > > > It is
usually said that astrology is strickly prohibited in Islam > > and there are
hundreds of Fatawa and opposing arguments about > > astrology.> > > > > >
> > > > > > Old hat. But who doesn't know the mindset of the blokes who
issue > > fatwas?> > > > > > > > > > > > Very few persons tried to
highlite the true picture. If our > > respected Hidu conferes do not mind
then I want to lay my personal > > opinion about the place of astrology in
Islam. Because I know this > > web-group is build to discuss, preech and
teach vedic astrology.But > I > > am penning as this forum is covering many
borders of occult > subjects.> > > > > > > > > > > > Great. You
must've also noticed that there are many excellent > > astrologers on this
group who aren't Hindu. Which is exactly how a > > body of knowledge should
always be kept and treated - divorced from > > religion to the extent
possible.> > > > > > > > > > > > "Because Islam is the fatest growing
> > > > > > > > > > > > The rate at which Muslims are proliferating
(at least in India), > > your statement will up to the sternest scrutiny.>
> > > > > > > > > > > and youngest religion of the world and many of its
education are > > beyond geography, caste and colour, therefore its `culture
or > > civilization' has still been evolving, > > > > > > > > > > >
> Just a minute. This reminds me of khilafat, which I'll come to > > laterbut
tell me, where did the term kafir originate from? A kafir > is > > a
heretic, and whoever doesn't embrace Islam is a kafir. Is this or > > isn't
this preached? > > > > > > > > > > > > although its essentials are
completed and compiled in the form of > > Quran and Hadees(the collections of
sayings of Prophet Muhammad). > > > > > > > > > > > > Bingo! The
essentials are in the Koran but the pert > interpretations > > are all done
by your well-meaning cheerleaders like our own Imam > > Bukhari (next in line
for the Nobel Peace Prize, I hear).> > > > > > > > > > > > Looking at
the initial periods of Arab tradition we don't get any > > clue of astrology
in that region, but other techniques of fortune > > telling was in vogue
including witchcraft, alchemy and omen by > > observing sky, birds and sand
of desert. A mind of current age find > > lots of Hadeeses reveal many a
times Prophet Muhammad prohibited > such > > activities, superstitions and
cursed those who was involved in that > > business of prophecy. But very few
knows that, in the life of > > Muhammad no one was aware of astrology in the
Arab.> > > > > > > > > > > > After many years when Islam was spreaded
outside Arabian region, > > the muslim came across many of non-arab arts and
sciences and the > > scholars of those time adopted and learn the different
branches of > > knowledge.> > > > > > > > > > > > You omit
mentioning how Islam spread so far and wide - I mean, > all > > the
pillaging, looting, plundering, subjugating and raping of wide > > chunks of
innocent populaces by marauding Islamic invaders. Not > that > > the
Christian missionary conversion techniques here of dangling > > attractive
but non-existent economic benefits a lot better, but the > > historical
Islamic conversion techniques were surely a lot less > civil.> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Greek and Greece were the richest source of knowledge for >
Arab > > conquerers. Arab were been fimiliar with astology through Greek, >
and > > after that they study astrology thoroughly, make an authentic > >
research and build new postulates.> > > > > > > > > > > > In my
dictionary, a postulate is a guess or assumption. You sure > > you meant
that? Fits well, actually, but I'm just making sure.> > > > > > > > > >
> > Iran, Iraq, Central Asia and Turkey were the centres of > > astrological
knowledge. Al-Beruni was the first eminent muslim > > scholar who came India,
learn Sanskrit and Vedic literature and > then > > after translated Brihat
Samhita of Vrihamihira. The successors of > > Beruni developed new theories
on the basis of Beruni's work, which > he > > extracted from Indian souls.
At that time no major opposition > arised > > against astrology because
many of the religious scholars themselves > > know astronomy and astrology
very well. > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately today's Maulvis could
not differentiate between the > > fortunetelling that was practiced during
Muhammad's life and > present > > approach and philosophy of astrology.
Therefore we see lot of > > material full of opposing views and `Fatawas'.
The rigid mullahas > are > > blindly stick to the wordings of Prophet,
without comprehend the > > purpose and appraoch of Prophet's wordings. > >
> > > > > > > > > > Your maulvis aren't just rigid and non-conducive to
the spread > and > > acceptance of astrology, most of them are rogues. I
remember your > > khilafat movement of '96 very well, where the same maulvis
urged > all > > Muslims to unite into a single nation, regardless of
geographical > > boundaries or regional loyalties. Meaning, an Indian Muslim
must > > identify more with a Sudanese or Afghan Muslim than with his own >
> Hindu neighbour. And if he must respect a government, it should be > > one
as saintly as Saudi Arabia's: The Muslim ethos must always > > supersede the
Indian one. There's another aspect to khilafat, that > > which is tacit and
understood by the 'believers', and without also > > which Islam remains
incomplete: its ultimate aim is the > Islamization > > of the world. Like
Christianity, and unlike Hinduism, Islam is a > > proselytizing religion.
However, whereas the Christian West sends > > overtly gentle missionaries,
there are no such self-constraints on > > the Arab world. How did you think
the Taleban popped up in Oct 96? > > And what can you expect when the
majority of the pack wants to > follow > > a dog that barks thus?> > > >
> > > > > > > > Whereas, there is a learned and intellectual class who
donot > think > > Astrology beyond the teaching of Islam, they hold that
it's a > science > > cum art which should be given its right place. > > >
> > > > > > > > > Not all Hindus vouch automatically for astrology
either. In fact, > > the majority of Indians don't believe in the science.
But believers > > aren't regarded as heretics here, which your maulvis so >
deliberately > > propagate.> > > > > > > > > > > > I am again
recalling that there was not any existance of Asrology > > and even Palmisty
in the Arabian region at the time of Muhammad's > > life. So how it become a
sin, when there are not any Sura or Hadees > > prohibiting to consult or
practice 'astrology' directly. All the > > Hadees are with reference to those
techniques of fortunetelling > that > > was prevailed in the dark age of
Arabian history. The study of > > Astrology come under the Imam Ghazili's
category of Non-Revealed > > Knowledge. For which the fourth and last
criteria of Sharia > > i.e; `Ijtehad' (interpretation of any newly arises
problem/point in > > the light of Quran by the present savants and scholars
for the > > benefit of muslim as a whole) is always there to check its all
good > > and bad impacts on the society and then decide whether it should >
> allow or not.> > > > > > > > > > > > But why do you guys require
moral policing at all? And that too > by > > those that generate the
mentality that can't stomach the return of > > merely 3 Hindu temples from
the thousands desecrated and turned > into > > mosques by the aforesaid
Arab invaders?> > > > > > > > > > > > And that is the opinion of the
majority of educated muslims not > > only in Pakistan> > > > > > > > >
> > > .where they're in an utter minority. Thankfully, there are many > >
Muslims in India who're Indians first.> > > > > > > > > > > > but also
around the world. Through this message I want to ask the > > opponent, if
astrology is not allowed in Islam then how Jafr (a > > sacred numerical way
of delineating query and talisman making) > > and `Faal' (omen or presage
with the help of sacred book or > numbers) > > can be permitted.> > > >
> > > > > > > > Also ask how khilafat can be propogated? Or even fatwas? >
> > > > > > > > > > > Here I donot want to repeat the names of muslim
astrologers, > their > > work and the famouse rulers who favoured to
practice astrology, > > because this site is reserved for the propagation of
vedic > astrology. > > These few word are the answer of my personal
explation of the > > frequently asked question i.e; Astrology is prohibited
in Islam > why? > > and one of our web friend Mr.Jagmeet S Dheendsa, who
queried about > > relevent topic. The article attatched containing many good
> > perspective but with a losely translated Hadees without any > >
reference. > > > > > > In another mail our dear Qamar Waheed Naqvi required
the source > of > > quote someone used last week, In my view the actual
words are Ilm> > (knowledge) and Aalim(savant) not the astrology and
astrologer, but > > since there are many translations of Hazrat Ali's
"Nahij-ul-> Balagha", > > so instantly I can't write the correct name of
translator, though > I > > didn't use the quote but I will try to get the
correct wordings > from > > authentic sources. Qamar also wants to know
about the vedic > tradition > > in Pakistan or some useful web-links that
can hilight it. > Unfortunate > > you hardly find any site contianing
efforts or research work of > > Pakistani vedic astrologers, but its not mean
that there is not any > > astrologer or researcher performing this task. I
know many and I > > will inform you. But little knowledge is often
dangerous, so first > I > > myself collect complete information then write
any thing later. > > > > > > > > > > > > Imran, you've a great
opportunity to learn vedic astro here and > put > > it in good use there.
Most astrologers here are knowledgeable and > > nice [me excepted on both
counts ] and if you receive even half > > the amount of help I've got,
you'll learn twice as much as I have. > > Don't let go. Nothing succeeds like
failure, especially in this > > subject.> > > > > > > > > > > >
Regards,> > > > > > M.Imran> > > > > > > > > > > > Warm regards
from lovely Karnataka> > > > > > (from where you migrated),> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ramapriya> > > > > > > > > > > > PS: I hope I won't be
flamed for this post, but I sure wasn't > > trolling Imran, but just airing
my views.> > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> >
> Do You Yahoo!?> > > Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes> > > > >
> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT> > > > Archives:
http://www.egroups.com/group/vedic-astrology> > > > Group info:
http://www.egroups.com/group/vedic-astrology/info.html> > > > To
UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic-astrology-unsubscribe@e...> > > > .......
May Jupiter's light shine on us .......> > > > || Om Tat Sat ||
Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is
subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > >
---------------------------------> > Do You Yahoo!?> > Yahoo! Finance - Get
real-time stock quotes> > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >
ADVERTISEMENT> > > > Archives:
http://www.egroups.com/group/vedic-astrology> > Group info:
http://www.egroups.com/group/vedic-astrology/info.html> > To UNSUBSCRIBE:
Blank mail to vedic-astrology-unsubscribe@e...> > ....... May Jupiter's light
shine on us .......> > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu
|| > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.Archives: http://www.egroups.com/group/vedic-astrologyGroup info:
http://www.egroups.com/group/vedic-a...gy/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank
mail to vedic-astrology-unsubscribe (AT) egroups (DOT) com....... May Jupiter's light
shine on us .......|| Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

>Hi respected jyotishi people. If someone knows anything about the
relationship between Parivartana Yoga and cancellation of debility
could they please let me know.
The "response to Visti" message interersted me. Moksha is liberation
from Samsara, Samsara means wheel and refers to the continual cycle
of birth and rebirth ie: reincarnation. A persons state of mind at
the time of their death determines the situation they are born into
in their next life. Your horoscope is an image of your state of mind
at the very end of your previous life. And your state of mind at that
time is a collection of the thoughts and actions you performed in
you're life. Those thoughts and activities generated results (karma)
and created behavioural patterns (samskara's)that are mapped and
interpreted through jyotish. But it's not until an individuals
accumulated karma is liquidated that Moksha becomes a reality instead
of an abstract theory. What is distant and abstract in your life is
ruled by the twelfth house in a chart which is the indicator of
your'e chance of obtaining Moksha. Moksha is the perfect escape, and
people with strengths in their twelfth house will go through intense
but temporary experiences that seperate them from mundane reality.

Hello Visti:

--- In vedic-astrology@y..., "monmuk111" wrote:
>
> Your response about the "Soul" jives with the response that
Kanupriya
> just posted that upon attaining moksha, the soul becomes one with
> god. This solves my puzzle.
>
> Visti, as to your notes on "discrimination," let me remind you that
> 500 years of atrocities committed by the Muslim rulers against my
> ancestors cannot be washed away by my attempt to live a righteous
> life. I guess in my attempts to live a righteous life, I don't
> physically retaliate against the Muslims. However, the verbal venom
> is a good release.
>
> Now, you may say that having hate in my heart itself contradicts my
> attempt to be righteous. However, you tell me--don't you feel
Service.