Bhakta's charitra - Page 2

guliaditya · 03-12-2008, 02:47 AM

Respected Loverofthebhagavata,

Very true.... Only God can decide.
"Srila Prabhupada was a great acharya.He spread krishna consciousness all over the world.In some places he blasted Ramkrishna paranhans by calling him a fool & rascal,called Goswami Tulsidasji as a mayvadi,Meera bai as not a pure devotee & the list goes on....."

If only God can decide then what made him to make such statements.
Pls forgive me for any offense.

LoveroftheBhagavata · 03-12-2008, 03:00 AM

As I said, it is for God to decide who is worthy of His grace and who isn't. As for Ramakrishna Paramhamsa, he had the direct vision of Kaali Maa. Now you reason whether the Mother Goddess would manifest Herself to a rogue of Kali-yuga if the person truly was a "fool and rascal." And this terminates my participation in this particular discussion. I have already expressed myself in crystal clear terms in my previous posts. There is no need for you to keep asking me questions since you are cognizant of my take on the matter.

Om tat sat

LoveroftheBhagavata · 03-12-2008, 03:03 AM

By the way, I cannot answer for someone else's assessments and pronouncements. I am only responsible for what I state. I hope that this replies to your query.

guliaditya · 03-12-2008, 03:07 AM

Thanks prabhuji..Chapter is closed

Can u give me the link from where I can online download Bhagvatam??
I wanted to download 3rd chapter of 1st Canto.
Thanks in advance

guliaditya · 03-12-2008, 03:11 AM

Also prabhuji, my intention was not to disturb you.
Will not put any further queries............
Sorry for disturbing you.....

LoveroftheBhagavata · 03-12-2008, 03:11 AM

http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/ is a very good site. Check it out.

Pranam

LoveroftheBhagavata · 03-12-2008, 03:13 AM

It's not a problem. You can message me privately if you wish to discuss anything special. It's better to keep certain things private. Regards

indulekhadasi · 03-12-2008, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guliaditya

Respected Indulekhadasiji,

That was certainly not the impression.A devotee is a devotee irrespective of a sampradaya.
Whether a person is a devotee or not will be decided by whom???? This is my doubt.Pls help me in this matter.

A person can decide by trying to detect if they have the 26 qualities of a devotee that I posted above. However basically only the Supreme Lord or a another bona fide Vaishnava can understand who is a pure devotee.

I had said that as long as a person is in an authorized Vaishnava sampradaya, then he is a Vaishnava. What I meant was- he may not identify himself with a sampradaya but as long as he is following the methods and philosophy of a bona fide sampradaya then he is of that sampradaya. For example if I said- I am not attached to any sort of sampradaya. However my belief is that Narayana is the Supreme Lord and there is no form of the Lord higher than Him. Then we can understand that even though I said that I am not from any sampradaya, I follow the teachings of the Sri Sampradaya and therefore I can be called a Sri Vaishnava. Do you understand?

guliaditya · 03-13-2008, 12:14 AM

Thanks for the reply.
Anyway I belong to Sri Sampradaya.

LoveroftheBhagavata · 03-13-2008, 01:13 AM

Quote:

A person can decide by trying to detect if they have the 26 qualities of a devotee that I posted above. However basically only the Supreme Lord or a another bona fide Vaishnava can understand who is a pure devotee.

This list was jotted down by Krishnadasa Kaviraja - it therefore bears authority for Bengali Vaishnavas primarily. I doubt that Guliaditya will find it acceptable if he's a Ramanuja Vaishnava. Neither would a Madhvaite, Nimbarki, Vallabhaite, Radha Vallabhi or Ramanandi assign much importance to it. This is why I keep saying that our dogmas and creeds stand good for us. We shouldn't expect the rest of the world to conform to our belief systems. Even the great Vedic rishis of yore weren't privy to the complete truth. It is GOD only who can judge the purity and sincerity of a sadhaka. No human being, no matter how advanced, can claim to be eligible for that task.

As for the authorized sampradaya thing, you'd be surprised to know what Madhva Vaishnavas think of Gaudiya Vaishnavism. They totally reject the Chaitanyaite claim to a connection with their line. Take a look at their websites if you feel like it. Once again, it is not for us or any "advanced" Vaishnava to state who is bona fide and who isn't. Let Hari take care of that.

indulekhadasi · 03-13-2008, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoveroftheBhagavata

This list was jotted down by Krishnadasa Kaviraja - it therefore bears authority for Bengali Vaishnavas primarily. I doubt that Guliaditya will find it acceptable if he's a Ramanuja Vaishnava. Neither would a Madhvaite, Nimbarki, Vallabhaite, Radha Vallabhi or Ramanandi assign much importance to it. This is why I keep saying that our dogmas and creeds stand good for us. We shouldn't expect the rest of the world to conform to our belief systems. Even the great Vedic rishis of yore weren't privy to the complete truth. It is GOD only who can judge the purity and sincerity of a sadhaka. No human being, no matter how advanced, can claim to be eligible for that task.

As for the authorized sampradaya thing, you'd be surprised to know what Madhva Vaishnavas think of Gaudiya Vaishnavism. They totally reject the Chaitanyaite claim to a connection with their line. Take a look at their websites if you feel like it. Once again, it is not for us or any "advanced" Vaishnava to state who is bona fide and who isn't. Let Hari take care of that.

It may have been written by a Gaudiya Vaishnava but the qualities are very general that I am sure all Vaishnavas would agree. It doesn't say as one of the qualities of the devotee- always worshipping Lord Chaitanya. That would be for Gaudiya Vaishnavas. I think the qualities are very general.

Aditya prabhuji, do you find that you cannot accept the qualities I posted in th beginning of this thread?

LoveroftheBhagavata · 03-13-2008, 09:32 AM

Quote:

It may have been written by a Gaudiya Vaishnava but the qualities are very general that I am sure all Vaishnavas would agree. It doesn't say as one of the qualities of the devotee- always worshipping Lord Chaitanya. That would be for Gaudiya Vaishnavas. I think the qualities are very general.

Fine, but I reiterate my point that God alone can judge our merits or demerits, because one person's Vaishnava is another one's bogus pasandi. So where do you draw the line?

indulekhadasi · 03-13-2008, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoveroftheBhagavata

Fine, but I reiterate my point that God alone can judge our merits or demerits, because one person's Vaishnava is another one's bogus pasandi. So where do you draw the line?

The Lord's pure associates in the spiritual world sometimes come down and take the role of the Lord's representitive, the Guru. Almost always fallen souls like me will not be able to recognize them, but if they decide to come in contact with me- they will see how I am not even a Vaishnava yet, I am simply a sinful struggling soul. They will not just give criticism however, they will help me stand up on my own two feet in spiritual life.

LoveroftheBhagavata · 03-14-2008, 01:14 AM

Quote:

The Lord's pure associates in the spiritual world sometimes come down and take the role of the Lord's representitive, the Guru. Almost always fallen souls like me will not be able to recognize them, but if they decide to come in contact with me- they will see how I am not even a Vaishnava yet, I am simply a sinful struggling soul. They will not just give criticism however, they will help me stand up on my own two feet in spiritual life.

Yes, but a truly evolved individual will not blast all and sundry just because of some disagreement on the minutest details, rather such a person will exhibit truly saintly behaviour. God is infinite and unfathomable, and is not the property of Vaishnavism solely, but is present in the heart of every sincere seeker, whether that person is a Hindu, Buddhist, Jain, Sikh, Christian, Muslim or animist. A thoughtful individual sees wisdom wherever it is available and takes advantage of it.

Look up to Krishna as your guide. When speaking the Gita, he encourages Arjuna to fight, but there is no demonizing of the enemy, and the only mentions of Duryodhana are right at the beginning when Dhritarashtra is enquiring from Sanjaya, and again briefly in the chapter where the virat-rupa is being displayed. However, any unwarranted criticism of the man, who was evidently quite dishonourable in many ways, is conspicuous by its absence from the entire discourse. If only certain so-called spiritualists of the modern age could learn from that and refrain from putting down anyone who's not from their own camp, the whole world would be immensely benefited.

guliaditya · 03-14-2008, 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indulekhadasi

Aditya prabhuji, do you find that you cannot accept the qualities I posted in th beginning of this thread?

What is there not to accept it???? Every quality mentioned is correct.I belong to Sri Sampradaya doesnt mean that I will not accept it. My opinion is that to accept or not is a particular "state of mind" only. Srimad Bhagvatam also describes the qualities of vaishnavas which is universal & applicable to all sampradaya.

The problem starts when we start finding fault in others which no scripture is recommending.

Pranaam.

guliaditya · 03-14-2008, 03:47 AM