Forums may be closing soon

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

After 8 years of having these forums I think it is time to close them down. It has become clear that internet forums are not a suitable means to communicate on spiritual topics. Rather than helping newcomers on their spiritual paths, the forums are mostly filled with arguments, fighting and insults. It seems that it is impossible to have two people from differing beliefs discuss spiritual topics without it degrading to insults. We have seen this on these forums amongst each and every group of people.

There are fights between:

Vaishnavas and the Shaivites
Vaishnavas and the Sai Baba followers
Vaishnavas and the Swami Narayan followers
Gaudiya Vaishnavas and Sri Vaishnavas
"Orthodox" Gaudiyas and the Gaudiya Matha lines
Gaudiya Math lines and the ISKCON lines
ISKCON lines and the ISKCON ritvik lines
Christian Vaishnavas and non Christian Vaishnavas

Each religious group feels the other religious groups should be censored and not permitted to speak because it is "offensive", but at the same time each religious group actively insults all the other religious groups thinking it is their natural right to insult the lesser belief systems.

The purpose of the forums was to help newcomers with questions. Ideally they could post their question on spiritual topics, and many people from differing traditions could reply to them giving them their own unique experience and perspective. Instead I have seen hundreds of times where a newcomer posts an honest question and someone immediately comes at them with a hammer to smash their "nonsense" and "set them right". I am sure many visitors would have been turned away from spiritual paths just by seeing so many religious people fighting in the name of their religions.

For the last 5 or 6 years there have been several volunteers moderating the forums to try to keep them peaceful. Even with this moderation there have been many arguments and fights. The volunteers have to spend hours a day watching the forums because literally every single day fighting starts. I think they should not have to waste their days watching for fights in the forums. They would be better off using that time to chant Bhagavan's name or read scriptures rather than watching for fights breaking out.

I don't see any way to make a spiritual forum useful or even just peaceful, so I think it would be best to close them down. The old posts would still be archived here, but new posting will be closed.

If anyone has a better suggestion they can provide it here.

[Bart Happel]

Originally Posted by Jahnava Nitai Das After 8 years of having these forums I think it is time to close them down. It has become clear that internet forums are not a suitable means to communicate on spiritual topics. Rather than helping newcomers on their spiritual paths, the forums are mostly filled with arguments, fighting and insults. It seems that it is impossible to have two people from differing beliefs discuss spiritual topics without it degrading to insults. We have seen this on these forums amongst each and every group of people. ...

Closing the forums would be a shame in my opinion. I think arguments can’t be avoided when different people discuss their deepest believes. I’m new here myself and I think this forum is quite unique, in that it seems to be the only active forum where spiritual topics are discussed seriously, and questions may be answered by a number of experts of the existing literature.

I agree, however, that insults should have no place here. But I wouldn’t try to limit this by having a number of volunteer moderators check all the posts for insulting language. Every user of the forums can report ‘bad posts’ (via the exclamation mark below the username etc.). When there are too many complaints about a user, you may investigate and ultimately you can ban this person from the forum.

Personally I don’t mind the insulting arguments too much. There is enough good content here to get inspired. We should stand above insults. Compliments for the forum!!

[Pankaja_Dasa]

The same thing happens on PC TECHNICAL Forums, and Html forums. I think thats the way forums are. I suggest leave 'it as it is', its like asking Arjuna to not fight, whats wrong with fighting? Take Good with bad. If it closes somebody else will open another.. (not me @?@? No)

[bhaktajan]

--Closing the forums would be a shame in my opinion.

--I think thats the way forums are. I suggest leave 'it as it is', its like asking Arjuna to not fight, whats wrong with fighting?

Do we go to a Kumba mela to disscuss such varied subjects?

It is called 'sat-sanga'.

[maybe you are aware of infiltrating double-speaking no-good-nicks lurking? In that case, "ma sucaha"]

The level of civility required to 'debate' or 'State your degree of opinion' is being practiced and cultivated here.

Has any one ever seen Video News film showing Government Legislators engage in fisticuffs? Literally attacking each other physically? We all have seen it occur in many different countries. Yet, the few wars occuring at present leave us to guage, 'What is the truth here?' --this process must continue.

It cannot be had any where else?

The majority of readers of this forum never write-in a post, or some do once a year only.

Similarly the most newspaper and radio aficinados don't send in an editorial, ever!

The worry is that greater enimity may be cultivated --but that is 'their' journey --to work-out there frustration 'intellectually'.

The unique-ness of this forum is that it is un-paralleled by any other 'in the world'.

The 'Life' in an ashram or even a city or town or ones own family requires all the 'culturing' it can get.

The bystanders stand to gain the most --or else we all retreat to our caves.

hey! I practice 'active-listening' [& active-reading] whenever I can remeber I should,
Bhaktajan

[suchandra]

Originally Posted by Jahnava Nitai Das After 8 years of having these forums I think it is time to close them down. It has become clear that internet forums are not a suitable means to communicate on spiritual topics. Rather than helping newcomers on their spiritual paths, the forums are mostly filled with arguments, fighting and insults. It seems that it is impossible to have two people from differing beliefs discuss spiritual topics without it degrading to insults. We have seen this on these forums amongst each and every group of people. There are fights between: Vaishnavas and the Shaivites Vaishnavas and the Sai Baba followers Vaishnavas and the Swami Narayan followers Gaudiya Vaishnavas and Sri Vaishnavas "Orthodox" Gaudiyas and the Gaudiya Matha lines Gaudiya Math lines and the ISKCON lines ISKCON lines and the ISKCON ritvik lines Christian Vaishnavas and non Christian Vaishnavas Each religious group feels the other religious groups should be censored and not permitted to speak because it is "offensive", but at the same time each religious group actively insults all the other religious groups thinking it is their natural right to insult the lesser belief systems. The purpose of the forums was to help newcomers with questions. Ideally they could post their question on spiritual topics, and many people from differing traditions could reply to them giving them their own unique experience and perspective. Instead I have seen hundreds of times where a newcomer posts an honest question and someone immediately comes at them with a hammer to smash their "nonsense" and "set them right". I am sure many visitors would have been turned away from spiritual paths just by seeing so many religious people fighting in the name of their religions. For the last 5 or 6 years there have been several volunteers moderating the forums to try to keep them peaceful. Even with this moderation there have been many arguments and fights. The volunteers have to spend hours a day watching the forums because literally every single day fighting starts. I think they should not have to waste their days watching for fights in the forums. They would be better off using that time to chant Bhagavan's name or read scriptures rather than watching for fights breaking out. I don't see any way to make a spiritual forum useful or even just peaceful, so I think it would be best to close them down. The old posts would still be archived here, but new posting will be closed. If anyone has a better suggestion they can provide it here.

These are strong arguments and surely to the point. If the moderators after so many years cannot see any benefit in running the forum there have to be changes/adjustments being made. Especially to cover all the costs and expenses to run a domain and to update the forum software. Last but not least all the moderating without any reward. My idea would be there should be a fee for all members to at least cover the costs to pay the provider etc. On the other hand, it is hard to say if the forum has enough traffic and how to again increase the traffic to make audarya what it deserves to be.
This only the sober analysis of the statistics/page impressions/page views can say.

[bhaktajan]

In the Vedic Verses Forum, there is a thread titled:
"Mantra before taking food"

It has 4,814 Views as of this moment.

People around the world may have a computer to access this site and thus read excerpts of sastra and lots of devotional sentiments--yet they do not have theirown copy of sastra to read, nor an ashram to go to, nor the temple lobby to chat-up new comers and old-timers.

[Afun]

I would suggest some addition in our profile- Philosophy, tradition or something like this.
From a philosophical point of view it's good to know at least that.
Well, maybe that's hard to specify, so it would be of no use.

Regards

[krsna]

Originally Posted by Jahnava Nitai Das After 8 years of having these forums I think it is time to close them down. It has become clear that internet forums are not a suitable means to communicate on spiritual topics. Rather than helping newcomers on their spiritual paths, the forums are mostly filled with arguments, fighting and insults. It seems that it is impossible to have two people from differing beliefs discuss spiritual topics without it degrading to insults. We have seen this on these forums amongst each and every group of people. There are fights between: Vaishnavas and the Shaivites Vaishnavas and the Sai Baba followers Vaishnavas and the Swami Narayan followers Gaudiya Vaishnavas and Sri Vaishnavas "Orthodox" Gaudiyas and the Gaudiya Matha lines Gaudiya Math lines and the ISKCON lines ISKCON lines and the ISKCON ritvik lines Christian Vaishnavas and non Christian Vaishnavas Each religious group feels the other religious groups should be censored and not permitted to speak because it is "offensive", but at the same time each religious group actively insults all the other religious groups thinking it is their natural right to insult the lesser belief systems. The purpose of the forums was to help newcomers with questions. Ideally they could post their question on spiritual topics, and many people from differing traditions could reply to them giving them their own unique experience and perspective. Instead I have seen hundreds of times where a newcomer posts an honest question and someone immediately comes at them with a hammer to smash their "nonsense" and "set them right". I am sure many visitors would have been turned away from spiritual paths just by seeing so many religious people fighting in the name of their religions. For the last 5 or 6 years there have been several volunteers moderating the forums to try to keep them peaceful. Even with this moderation there have been many arguments and fights. The volunteers have to spend hours a day watching the forums because literally every single day fighting starts. I think they should not have to waste their days watching for fights in the forums. They would be better off using that time to chant Bhagavan's name or read scriptures rather than watching for fights breaking out. I don't see any way to make a spiritual forum useful or even just peaceful, so I think it would be best to close them down. The old posts would still be archived here, but new posting will be closed. If anyone has a better suggestion they can provide it here.

I agree. The time has come to close. Thank you for all the opportunity to express oneself here @




Hare Krsna!

m tat sat

[Pankaja_Dasa]

Bhaktjan you should see the sat-sanga in my house! Why are people so scared of arguing? Devotees !!! Haha. LIVE in a temple for a while. IT CALLED LIFE. Problem started with this forum when posts were censored. Thats when it all started. Change or shut it down.

[theist]

I would close the spiritual discussion forum and leave the rest. Although I am very open towards all attempts to find God irrespective of path I am admittedly biased towards personalism. It is extremely frustrating to be offering a line of personalist thought to a newcomers question only to be interuppted by a voidist or impersonalist. And they must feel the same when a peronalist interuppts them.

This will always be the case.

Having newcomers hear answers to a question from atheists, polytheists, voidists,impersonalists and personalists simultaniously is a recipe for disaster. This structure cannot work on an internet forum anymore than it could on a street corner shared by all these different groups.

If you think it important that the polytheistic & impersonalistic viewpoints receive equal airing along side the Vaisnava point of view then you have already provided many forums where newcomers can ask their questions to each of these groups without interference from other viewpoints. They can then take that same question to other groups on their dedicated board and receive their answer for contemplation.

To expect a group of biased people committed to separate paths to share the microphone equally and without quarrel is unrealistic.

The expert surgeon does not just kill the whole body to cure a disease like cancer. He will target the effected area and remove that while sparing the healthy tissue of the rest of the body.

Yes the moderaters are volunteers. The same usually applies to all the other workers in a religiously based outreach program. Each of those moderators should ask themselves if they feel their work is worth their time as devotional service or not.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

Moderators should state why a post was deleted, rules should be pinned. YOU need make more social network.

[Vedesu]

I don't have any answers... I just now saw this. But I do agree that the moderators are caught between a rock and a hard place. I mean, that's got to be about the most thankless, unfillfulling job on the planet. Diving deep into the sewage without a snorkel or even goggles, trying to clean up the stench and the debris. And I assume that these moderators are devotees and would therefore be concerned about the heavy risks of contamination to their devotional creepers caused by having to witness nonstop fighting along with the subsequent aparadhas. I reckon they don't have the luxury of placing people on their ignore lists like the rest of us do.... they basically have to read everything that's out there. I don't envy their service, at all.

If this forum is to survive... and I'm just thinking out loud here, I would guess that the moderation would have to be much stricter: infractions and bans for those who are repeatedly being unruly and abusive. But even then, the dilemma remains for the moderators with respect to the fact that there is little joy and practically no reward in swimming through the filth of countless confrontations on a daily basis, especially when time could perhaps be better spent doing sadhana. Then again, maybe there are some special souls out there who enjoy this type of service, I don't know.

[Bishadi]

this site and the comments herein have pointed me to more reading of the Vedic literature, than any other site ever observing the religion of Krisna.

The debates and material to combine the minds of conscious life is what articulation is for.

It can only be ascertained that frustration is setting in which a belief is being exposed as needing further definition.

Each of the great contributors offered new material understanding to the old methods of conveyance.

The best idea is not to 'shut down' the forum but encourage the drive of each to continue learning; that is what a teacher is for.

And each teacher must recognize the student should exceed the teacher or progress will never evolve.

That is why the humility of the teacher must always be as the servant to the student.

Each should be begging and wishing to be questioned; that is how we each continue in this progression of knowledge

Have a little faith in the Good of Life!

as it is only of selfish pride that would enable a teacher to be mad at the student for questioning. No man is perfect, never has been so maybe it is them frustrated mods that may need to be educated with the eyes of compassion versus their own selfish pride of being a 'know it all.'

again... no matter what decisions are made, i will always appreciate the venue that this site given to not only this 'i' called me, but for being capable of that enormous compassion of allowing debates to evolve.

like mentioned above, many do not post, they come to read and learn

not to follow!

submission to God in the sense of Submission to a belief is what religious leaders like but submission to God, is to be submissive to what is Good!

and since the last chapter of truth is not finished

then submit to the evolution of knowledge, even if it hurts our own personal beliefs; that is the true mind of Godhead!

Peace to ALL

[Samia]

That is what happens when there is shadow moderation. There are several amazing posters that could function as moderators as well and if posters are warned on their behavior instead of just being deleted without notice they will behave.


Sure there are arguments but there are also countless amazing bits of wisdom to be found.

More moderation and clear enforcement of the rules are the solution. Don`t delete without notice and ban serial offenders simple.

[Kulapavana]

Dear JNdas,

Please do not be discouraged. The idea that somehow there will only be nice exchanges among people is utopian. Internet forums serve as a means of exchanging ideas and information. This forum works great in that regard.

Some people have hard time tolerating dissenting opinions - so be it. It is more important that they learn how to live with others.

If this is it, I want to sincerely apologize for my contribution to the dissent, fighting, and criticism on this forum. I also want to ask everybody's forgivenes for my transgressions. I mean it. Vanca kalpataru...

I have learned much here, for which I am grateful to you and other posters on this site. Dandavat pranams!

All glories to the assembled devotees!