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[bhaktajan]

Originally Posted by jeffster . . . a bad dream one night after reading a lot of critical posts. I think this forum should stay. . . . In the rush to prove our philosophical points superior to those of others, . . . without demanding any in return. . . . But this year I started to suffer horribly from what can only be reactions to too much criticism. . . . I caught bronchitis, and simultaneously a bout of vertigo. . . . now have high blood pressure. The point is that criticism must stop. We must debate forcefully, but keep our attacks philosophical, never personal. . . . also, and not take it personally, even if it degrades to a personal attack. . . . keep on debating, come out of your corners with blazing arguments, but keep it clean, no hitting below the belt !!

Just a system reminder for faster data transfer:

Mahabharata, Shanti-parva - Chapter 300
[Yudhisthira inquired, “How should one react to people who insult you by their rudeness and arrogance?”

Bhisma replied, “If one does not become angry when insulted by another, then he takes away all the pious merit that person may have accumulated by good deeds. In addition he transfers to the abuser his own sinful reactions. After all what is the value of praise or blame when uttered by a vulgar fool? A person who praises some one in his presence but criticizes him behind his back is no better that a dog.”]

[jeffster]

I was attempting to suggest that we become dispassionate, cool-headed; that is a very tall order. I believe Prabhupad mentioned something about being "cool-headed," but I am not sure where to find the reference. Veda-base ? It takes practice to become cool-headed and best done if we take shelter of the Holy Names, which add a sheen of transcendence to our character, thus gradually displacing our lower nature.
jeffster / AMdas

[AncientMariner]

[srikanthdk71]

Originally Posted by jeffster I was attempting to suggest that we become dispassionate, cool-headed; that is a very tall order. I believe Prabhupad mentioned something about being "cool-headed," but I am not sure where to find the reference. Veda-base ? It takes practice to become cool-headed and best done if we take shelter of the Holy Names, which add a sheen of transcendence to our character, thus gradually displacing our lower nature. jeffster / AMdas

Dear Jeffster, I think Bhaktjan is new to you. He has been ignored on almost all forums. All he enjoys is pages of Cut & Paste info. No use bashing the Wind. Just watch, he will put another Cut & Paste work as his answer.

[suchandra]

Originally Posted by srikanthdk71 Dear Jeffster, I think Bhaktjan is new to you. He has been ignored on almost all forums. All he enjoys is pages of Cut & Paste info. No use bashing the Wind. Just watch, he will put another Cut & Paste work as his answer.

Even Lord Caitanya and Lord Krsna quote from sastra, cut&paste info.
But there're lots of schools who agree with you and always present newly invented texts without touching previous thoughts. Everything is there in God's unlimited creation.

[jeffster]

Hello Srikant,
But isn't cut & paste better than slash and burn ? Bhaktajan's post from the Mahabharata is appropriate, is it not ?
Pranams, AMdas (jeffster)

[meenakshiamman]

I'm not here all that often, but I would like to say that this forum is too unique to shut down.

Arguing can easily be productive, believe it or not. We learn from it. We move on.
We can't dwell on it and in turn and make everyone else suffer for it.
Sure, we may become frustrated....but that's part of this life isn't it? We will get over it. Sometimes it's even fun.

Try not to take the arguing so seriously, it is our unavoidable human nature. Simply remember that a discussion forum such as this is a rare thing that you are gracious enough to offer to us. We can discuss things here that we cannot discuss at other places. This place serves a purpose...even if it partially involves us letting off some steam.

I do however think that boundaries should be put into place. Personal attacks should not be tolerated for instance. I think setting up a good system would help weed out the real troublemakers.

[srikanthdk71]

Originally Posted by jeffster Hello Srikant, But isn't cut & paste better than slash and burn ? Bhaktajan's post from the Mahabharata is appropriate, is it not ? Pranams, AMdas (jeffster)

Hmm... yes. But i think you havent read any other postings of his on different forums. Anyway, i wouldnt argue much on this. Only experience can be the better judge always.

[srikanthdk71]

Originally Posted by suchandra Even Lord Caitanya and Lord Krsna quote from sastra, cut&paste info. But there're lots of schools who agree with you and always present newly invented texts without touching previous thoughts. Everything is there in God's unlimited creation.

NAVO NAVO BHAVATI, previous time never exists, previous people never exist, whats harm in thinking fresh? Quotes by Sri Chaitanya or Sri Krishna was done after their experiences tallied with the past. What we do now is to just quote without experiencing anything thereby showing our knowledge in books rather than experience. Again, lets not drag this too far to fetch into an other arguement.

[jeffster]

But what's wrong with benefitting from the experience of the previous acharyas who have already traversed the path and given us the benefit of their wisdom ? In other words, our process is a descending process, rather than an ascending process. We benefit from submissive aural reception to the words of Guru and Krishna. The words of Chaitanya and Krishna have eternal wisdom that transcend any mundane period of time. Of course, we are still immersed in the worlds of time and space and must traverse the path ourselves, but we can gain immense benefit from hearing from our predecessors (sp?).
AMdas (jeffster)

[liselina]

The Audarya Fellowship has had 50,930,130 page views since creation.

And counting...

Namaste

[Pankaja_Dasa]

Thats a lot.

[suchandra]

Originally Posted by Pankaja_Dasa Thats a lot.

Just comparing numbers - the biggest Christian forum has only half amount of posts.

[Bishadi]

Originally Posted by theist Not a new revelation to me Bishadi but it is also not what I would call humility.

ever been to a funeral? what is the thread theme?

and what is surfacing?

I have just seen the stark truth of the situation. Everything I do is self motivated and somehow the desire for personal gain is behind everything. Grasping our own motivations I believe is very important to say the least.

you hit it on the head.

It is because most are not aware that every choice is their life.

This is why I say with conviction that I am not a Vaisnava. A Vaisnava acts for Krishna's interest only.

since we are a part of existence, then we are a part of __________ (which ever word you like).

No separation; thereby your act, is your existence.

I have never acted solely for Krishna's interest.

yes and no!

Isolation is the self prescribed determination; reality knows better.

I always want my share out of any so-called acts of goodness. Iam willing to share with krishna but the idea that everything is for krishna/ Well I am not so sure about that.

Makes sense. Perhaps the good is your gain; both experienced and submission to existence?

With comprehending the truth of what your choices represent, then life can be understood; offers perspective to the truth; begets responsibility.

This is a mixed platform at best. It's not just the students of Vaisnavism that have this problem. What of the impersonalist who doesn't believe we have separate eternal identities but feels compelled to tell 'everyone' that "all is one". lol

that is what is nice about observing each branch of knowledge; they all say the same thing. Comprehending the physical truth of existence offers foundation to pure belief.

Again, to comprehend, then responsibility is innert; by choice!

It may be helpful to remember that most all of here are simply frustrated materialists struggling to find some relief and lasting joy. When we remember this we will be less likely to be impressed with our own 'grasp' of deep philosophy, even the flowery words of the vedas and our recitation of the same. Thus less likely to feel we must defend to the death what we have said.

because each must be capable of answering every question without faith in phenomenon to be the last word.

each person confronts 'the seeking' and to have a true conveyance, then learning combines with understanding

This is just one angle on this rather complex subject.

not many could debate that summary.

so in true compassion for the fellow brethren, what is the next chapter?

Prehaps, that "absolute truth"?

[Bart Happel]

Ingenious thread, this is..

[srikanthdk71]

Originally Posted by jeffster But what's wrong with benefitting from the experience of the previous acharyas who have already traversed the path and given us the benefit of their wisdom ? In other words, our process is a descending process, rather than an ascending process. We benefit from submissive aural reception to the words of Guru and Krishna. The words of Chaitanya and Krishna have eternal wisdom that transcend any mundane period of time. Of course, we are still immersed in the worlds of time and space and must traverse the path ourselves, but we can gain immense benefit from hearing from our predecessors (sp?). AMdas (jeffster)

Dear Jeffster aka AMdas, there is nothing wrong in knowing our acharyas but, benifit...????...!!!?? I doubt coz, we try to compare our experiences with theirs which may never match and eventhough you would have found the truth, you may be confused coz you are trying to gain the experience of your acharya. The are n number of interpretations for the Bhagavad Gita. Who is right or maybe everyone? or no one. Only Sri Krishna knows. In the same way, when you are the experiencer, you need not look upto anybody to confirm that it is right. Is it not better to look into ourself for the truth and be convinced rather than getting confused. Rest may give you temporary chills up your spine or make you amazed and amused. Only experience can be real. A Shirdi Sai would look better than a Pundit.