When all are doing wrong, be the first to do right or just keep silent. Yes???

krsna · 05-12-2008, 03:38 PM

When all are doing wrong, be the first to do right, or just keep silent.

Would that be the most KRSNA Conscious thing to do?

What examples of doing right amidst wrong-ful doing people are there?

When all are loudly speaking lies silence is deafening...

theist · 05-12-2008, 03:48 PM

Yes, or one can speak from a platform of admitting one's fault also and encouraging fellow seekers on path to God.

Something like two people are lost in the woods. One is starting to weaken in the effort and wants to give up the effort to find home and the other exhorts him to dig down and keep up the search. This is friendship and brotherhood.

What is absent is a self-righteous attitude.

cbrahma · 05-12-2008, 08:21 PM

Very wise and inspirational. Thank you.

AncientMariner · 05-13-2008, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theist

Yes, or one can speak from a platform of admitting one's fault also and encouraging fellow seekers on path to God.

Something like two people are lost in the woods. One is starting to weaken in the effort and wants to give up the effort to find home and the other exhorts him to dig down and keep up the search. This is friendship and brotherhood.

What is absent is a self-righteous attitude.

If you are saying what I think you are saying this post was really cool and even if you are not saying what I think you are saying I still find this post to be very profound.

krsna · 05-13-2008, 01:49 AM

I (conditioned soul, jiva)'m in illusion (maya) therefore totally unfit to speak the truth (param satyam dhimahi, krsnas tu bhagavan svayam) to your face, especially since you have no faith (sraddha) in my words anyway.

Who shall unequivocally speak the truth - boldly, uncompromisingly and fearlessly - to one and all, without consideration of any political correctness?

Vigraha · 05-13-2008, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krsna

When all are doing wrong, be the first to do right, or just keep silent??.

Well, the answer is no.

In this day and age and in this time and place, if I am struggling and ARE doing wrong, and then if I see others also doing wrong, then regardless of my fallen state, I will NOT remain silent, I will strongly and aggressively, if need be, speak out against the same things that have degraded me.

Frankly the above comment and many scriptual quotes can unfortunately be twisted and resemble a fascist statement to control the thoughtful thinking of others because it is a clever way to get others to never critize their leaders.

Do you really think that because one is not perfect and fallen, one should ignore all the faults in any other devotees or leaders and remain silent by not exposing and telling others about their struggle with Maya?

Maybe this is why so few spoke up in the past in early ISKCON when they saw wrong and lies, that back many believed as truth, going on.

In all fairness and honesty, the most probably reason very few did not speak or even recognise the truth all those years ago is,, we were too young, inexperienced and immature to know any better. When Prabhupada left us in 1977, the average age of the devotees was 26 years old

Therefore, many felt they were too fallen, useless and affraid to speak out about what little truth they new and expose the childish lies and difficult struggles of other very young devotees, who were also still learning how to be leaders and Gurus.

So they remained silent and lived the sentimental lie because they did not know any better, and look what happened - The hard way to learn a lesson.

In other words we were not smart enough to learn through knowledge of the Veda, we had to learn the hard way by trial and era

It was simply inexperience and immaturity these things happened, their was no plan of deceit by anyone in the Temple, at least not in Australia and certainly not by me even though I did struggle as revealed in a letter Prabhupada sent me

In all fairness there was an innocents back then that was in all the devotees because when one is young, as we all were back then, our ideals were very strong, we were very young and inexperienced in our attempts to understand and follow an age old religion.

Anyway, such a comment as "When all are doing wrong, be the first to do right, or just keep silent" also reminds me of an old Prabhupada disciple back in the 70s, who is actually a very nice old grandfather devotee today. But back then he always said such naive comments due to his youthful immaturity to just force you to do as he said. With his infamous saying 'SURENDER PRABHOOO' which really means to him, just do what I tell you to do and don't argue, question it or think.about it

In 1971 every time I touched the mrdunga he would harshly say

"Leave that drum alone, you don't know how to play it, so don't touch it"

My obvious reply to this devotee was

"If I don't touch the mrdunga drum, how am I going to learn?"

He just ignored me, so when he was not around, I practised on the drum anyway, ignoring his request and taught myself.

So Prabhupada arrived a few months later and lead the kirtan in the Temple room, and yes I was playing mrdunga while the devotee who previously would not let me play the drum, was cooking in the kitchen.

While cooking another devotee said to him,

"Well it looks like he can touch the drum now, seeing he can play it"

There is a point and lesson in all this, don't let anyone tell you what you can and cannot do if it shastically does not make sense!! Which means one has to learn and study Srila Prabhupada’s books so one is not treated like a mushroom by anyone, aspiring devotees or karmis

And certainly never ever remain silent when you see things are not quite right, no matter how fallen you are.

The old immature ways and sentimental ideas in ISKCON have to be out grown if we are to learn and go forward instead of remaining stagnant within the realms of our pioneering immaturity years

HARE KRSNA

krsna · 05-13-2008, 02:23 AM

Speak the Truth when all are speaking lies?
Stick out your neck and make your self unpopular with all the people-pleasers by speaking the truth which is often unpalatable and un-pleasing to them (you'll become persona-non-grata, you'll lose all your so-called friends).

There is nothing more revolutionary than to speak the truth save and except perhaps to live the truth at the risk of your own life...

Who amongst us shall pay that high price of putting their mortal frame on the altar of Truth, by becoming a preacher of Truth (KRSNA)?

Vigraha · 05-13-2008, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krsna

Speak the Truth when all are speaking lies?

In all fairness and honesty, the most probably reason very few did not speak or even recognise the truth all those years ago is, we were too young, inexperienced and immature to know any better. When Prabhupada left us in 1977, the average age of the devotees was 26 years old

Therefore, many felt they were too fallen, useless and affraid to speak out about what little truth they new and expose the childish lies and difficult struggles of other very young devotees, who were also still learning how to be leaders and Gurus.

So they remained silent and lived the sentimental lie because they did not know any better, and look what happened - The hard way to learn a lesson.

In other words we were not smart enough to learn through knowledge of the Veda, we had to learn the hard way by trial and era

It was simply inexperience and immaturity these things happened, their was no plan of deceit by anyone in the Temple.

In all fairness, there was an special innocents back then that was in all the devotees because, when we were young, as we all were back then, our ideals and dreams of a new world order of Lord Caitanya were very strong, we were actually very young, innocent and inexperienced in our attempts to understand and follow an age old religion.

Maybe this is why so few spoke up in the past in early ISKCON when they saw wrong and lies going on, they simply did not know any better.

Many felt they were too fallen, usesless and affraid to speak out the the little truth they did understand and expose the childish lies and difficult struggles of other very young devotees, who were still learning how to be leaders and Gurus?
It was simply inexperience and immaturity these things happened, their was no plan of deceit by anyone in the Temple including myself.

However, without the flowery poetry in beautuful words of a great devotee of the Lord, which are nice, my point is simple and for the simple minded -

Never ever remain silent when you see things are not quite right, no matter how fallen you are.

Hare Krsna

gHari · 05-13-2008, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krsna

When all are doing wrong, be the first to do right, or just keep silent.

Would that be the most KRSNA Conscious thing to do?

What examples of doing right amidst wrong-ful doing people are there?

When all are loudly speaking lies silence is deafening...

Prahlada

cbrahma · 05-13-2008, 05:23 AM

I have heard that a devotee is silent. But silence I believe to mean he only speaks of spiritual matters, ie Krsna.
Let's not forget the dictum that when somebody is doing wrong - silence means consent.

Svarupa · 05-13-2008, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbrahma

I have heard that a devotee is silent.

But silence I believe to mean he only speaks of spiritual matters, ie Krsna.

Let's not forget the dictum that when somebody is doing wrong - silence means consent.

Very true, a great saying