Sorry to hear about your bad experiences. How did you recover from all this, how long did it take, did any of your friends help you out? I've been hearing these things about iskcon all the time, is this always the case? I mean, the big guys trying make life miserable for the little ones?

And if this person is still around as you say, it seems as if no one's done anything about it. Unless these people are stopped, there won't be a lesson for others to learn, in which case these atrocities will persist.

It took a very long time to recover. Years. Some of my devotee friends helped me a lot, by secretly visiting me or allowing me to visit the centers they maintained (I was banned from visiting temples). Even today big puffed up leaders can make a lot of trouble for the common devotees, but back then it was a completely totalitarian system.

As to making things better for the future: IMO the key is education of rank and file devotees as to what the real KC should look like, and training them to think for themselves and trust their heart and gut instincts. The top manipulators have the power only because the rank and file devotees LET THEM have that power.

There are so many reasons for silent acquiescence in ISKCON.

First, there is the material dependancy. If you don't have anywhere to go, no means of support you will be afraid of ending up on the street.

Second, there is philosophical manipulation. 'One should not criticize senior godbrothers' 'Vaisnava apharada' etc...

Although there are other reasons, those two were good enough to cover years of corruption before the top blew off.

I recall reading Prabhupada during his last years once said or wrote "demons have entered the Krishna consciousness movement".

Perhaps he was helpless at that point to do something about it. But since he communicated this discovery, why did this not serve as a wakeup call for others?

Cheers

I think Prabhupada had so much "fatherly affection bias" for his disciples and so much faith in the purifying nature of KC process that he was not acting on such observations.

In the hindsight, there were very ominous signs in 1975-77 that the movement is in trouble yet no major structural reforms were ordered by Prabhupada. I disagree that he was helpless at that point - he was very much in complete control, and if he ordered for changes to be implemented, they would have been carried out. Instead he issued an order that current GBC's are to hold their position for life (unless they have deviated) and that new GBCs are to be chosen by the existing GBC members. In this way the status quo was preserved.

Your life may be the only Bible some people read. ~
Author Unknown

C'mon be like Thakura Haridas, they only look at him and they chant Hare Krsna spontaneously.



Do not repeat anything you will not sign your name to. ~Author Unknown

C'mon be real, genuine ; stop posing, being a pretender , or a con-artist in the guise of a Vaisnava.

I am intolerant, supremacist, a bully and violent. I am highly inflammable and can explode if I am not treated preferentially and with respect. At the same time, I abuse others and violate the rights of people of other faiths. This makes me a demon.

Now the real miracle would be to turn me into a devotee. The guru can perform such a miracle; I've simply have to give him my heart so that he can change me!

You poor poor man, how you have suffered.

Just see how you cannot think coherently.

All because you can't be a MONK!

If you want to pray somewhere and do your missionary work you should go do it your self.

Nobody has ever restrained you from your monastic path. No they really have not my friend.

But we all pine for being a recluse and being a reknowned recluse is even better.

One day we can slip into obscurity of a back woods samadhi and then recall the Passion of Kulapavana.

Bhakta Jan, I think you should be a little more sensitive and compassionate. Your attitude sucks, and most of the time, it's not even clear what you're trying to say.

"Bhakta Jan, I think you should be a little more sensitive and compassionate. Your attitude sucks, and most of the time, it's not even clear what you're trying to say."

BUT THIS TIME IT"S CLEAR--IF THE KITCHEN IS TOO HOT... Get you own kitchen.

Kulapavana is lamenting for his lost youth and lost dream of leading a world revolution--but actually this chap is pining for a life of prayer and solitude --and he is NOT aware of this!

He waxes about living in a monastic order that asked him to leave?

Just go pray.

You can't understand my prose? Listen here punky-brewster. If I printed out Kulapavana dirty laundry and sought out real life devotees to read it to--I would be told the same thing you say about me above, by every devotee. You know why? Because it's "mental". Sounds like me? If my writtings are 'mental'--then count your self an expert in decerning "mental" babbling.

Now your duties include defending monks with out a cause?

OK OK I surrender--NOT!

battling babbling babes and boobs when I can,
Bhaktajan

I'm soo gonna give Kulapavana "nooggies" if ever I could . . .

Kula. once again is mirepresenting the facts of ISKCON history and Prabhupada whose authority and credibility he therefore subtly undermines.

When one speaks from the heart on public forums, one accepts a risk of being ridiculed, criticized, misunderstood, and so on. I have been writing here long enough to know that.

I do not really care what your take is on most things you write about, because very little of what you write makes any sense to me. Nor do I care about what your take is on me as a person, or as a devotee. There are people on this forum whose opinion I deeply respect and value because throug their posts I can see what kind of people they are. And I do take their criticism to heart.

As to the revolution: It has only just begun, and I am glad I'm still taking part in it, with all guns blazing. I am not a general in this revolution, just a front line machine-gunner.

YEAH YEAH YEAH YADA YADA YADA!

This is why "WE" and all us other tax paying citizen don't live in the temple--because there are others who will berate our babblings right or wrong.

Yeah. But you know the "nooggies" will be there for you when you get home my brother.

and once again you show your ignorance of the FACTS:

Ouch! That hits home.

When you hear a sentence begin with these three words it's time to tune out quickly.

My mother is goofy sometimes [yeah, I know, you're not my mum]

BUT DUDE!
YOUR PHOTO SHOWS A NAZI--BEHIND WHICH YOU ARE SYMBOLICALLY STANDING.

OY vey!

Start reading all Prabhupada's books AGAIN, and see me in 2 to 3 decades. It's good to start back at the basics all over again--it makes everything seem fresh. Maybe you'll find a wife too.

Krsna I agree with you in part.. The last time I was in a Mental Hospital the Doctors, Nurses and Therapists.. Kept trying to tell me I was wrong and that I was disturbing other patients.. So I mostly kept my mouth shut and tried using notes to some people and good example for others.. For example there was a young girl there next door to me and I'm not sure why she was there I think they thought she was Bipolar.. Which means To feel extremely high and on top of the world and then feeling very low and depressed it fluctuates from time to time. The movie Mr. Jones shows you the problems of Bipolar Disorder.
So I kept sending her good thoughts (not Psychicaly).. That she was doing well.. I saw her coloring a picture and I told her it reminded me of a mandala..
I kept encouraging her and I showed her that I can't read minds by using a deck of cards. She was the first one released on my hallway.. There was a suicide patient way down at the end of the hallway.. I kept thinking about his suffering and how to improve his behavior.. The Doctors wanted him to cover up his scars from his suicidal / Mascicistic behavior so they gave him small gauzz and medical tape and a short sleeve shirt so people could still see that he cut himself up.. So they took the gauzz and medical tape but he still had the short sleeve shirt on so they everyone saw his scars... So I thought positively how one person was allowed to wear clothes that looked fine but there were others that were not allowed to wear good clothes. So I thought about this every now and then and they finaly allowed him to wear a sweat shirt. I kept telling them what kind of diet I prefer but they kept giving me meat and sweats.. This guy sat in the same room as me a few times and I knew he ate meat so when I was giving meat I gave it to him and he started to get better and became more respectful. There was a guy who was a terrible slob and I kept cleaning up after myself around him and when I saw him do something slobby I would shortly think to myself "He's being a slob" and actualy clean after him.. shortly like a day or so he was cleaning up everything he could find. Doors windows and so forth..
I helped so many people in that Hospital so I cant tell you everything.

Reamining silent is actualy impossible because your mind is active and your body is active.. Writing small notes to certain people.. Keeping your mouth shut is'nt really keeping silent..

I agree with Vigraha when he spoke about Srila Prabhupad.. First he spoke of a man who was a student of Prabhu and went around saying "Prahbhu Surrender" what he was saying was not to surrender to Prabhu but for Prabhu to surrender to truth.. And alot of people hated him for saying it (Thus the Imfamous) because Prabhu was a hypocrite if you reread Vigraha's story..

I was reading Bhaktajans post and I think he's pretty intelligent for a kid. I saw he wants a poster on Sanskrit. I don't know if he'll read this post or not.. But It's easy for him to make his own poster by using the Bhagavad Gita As it is.. It teaches alot of sanskrit.. The Alphebet is at the back of the book all he needs to do is scan it and make it big enough to fit on the size printer he has and thats his poster he doesnt need a big one.. and the terms words and definitions are at the beginning of every verse and he's a kid so he can learn it better if he just puts it to practice.

Originally Posted by tackleberry . . . Your attitude sucks, and most of the time, it's not even clear what you're trying to say.

Dear tackleberry,
What-ho! Top-hole. Bally Jerry, pranged his kite right in the how's-your-father; hairy blighter, dicky-birded, feathered back on his sammy, took a waspy, flipped over on his Betty Harpers and caught his can in the Bertie.

Also, Bunch of monkeys on the ceiling, tackleberry ! Grab your egg-and-fours and let's get the bacon delivered!

A partial truth is worse than a lie. You cling as does the GBC to one isolated instance.