Well, I happen to find Leo's paintings including this one particularly inspiring. Don't ask me why because I haven't got the time to write a lengthy essay on this. Your avatar on the other hand is one of those comic characters that my 4-year-old finds especially fascinating. Wonder if you like cartoons as well. I do and have no qualms about confessing to that.

Bhaktivinoda Thakura had a very humble view of himself, yet he was seen as a true legend by his followers. Somehow none of the major acharyas in our tradition are seen as sadhana-siddhas by their followers, which is kind of sad, because it reduces the role and importance of achieving perfection by a gradual process. Still, from the external perspective we certainly see all these persons gradually develop spiritually, change, and eventually achieve the perfection after much labor and strife. by kula

Such a nice realization of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, thx!

Here is a short glimpse of the life of Srila Bhaktivinoda from the introduction to 'Sri Bhaktivinoda Vani Vaibhava'. It is a wonderful expression of his life and the journey he took as an example for all us sadhaka's to admire and aspire for.

click here

If you have not read this, please find the time, it will bring your simple heart joy.

yadā yadā hi dharmasya
glānir bhavati bhārata
abhyutthānam adharmasya
tadātmānaḿ sṛjāmy aham

<o:p></o:p> <!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p>"Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O descendant of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion — at that time I descend Myself." BG 4.7

When studying how often Krishna incarnates to correct decay and unrighteousness it should be clear that the material world is a place where conditioned souls have regency and sadhana siddhas are rather rare exceptions. Therefore books like, "The Mahajanas Have Difficulties" are written to say that it is ok when gurus fall down and this is what happens all the time.

ISKCON Bangalore Festival



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Firstly Prabhupada, who gave us the correct teachings of all Vedic knowledge, can -

Srila Prabhupada - "We all have come down from Vaikuntha some millions of years ago” Lecture August 6, 1973

Secondly, you ARE one of Krishnas eternal associates but YOU have forgotten this fact long, long, long ago, this is not easy to understand, this is why Prabhupada has explained it as follows -

Srila Prabhupada- "You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there…So actually we are always in the spiritual world. But when you forget Krishna by the cloud of illusion that is material. Try to understand. Actually we are not fallen therefore, at any moment we can revive our Krishna consciousness. As soon as we understand that, "I have nothing to do with. I am simply Krishna's servant. Eternal servant. That's all". In a Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971

Srila Prabhupada - "You are liberated. You are liberated. Simply just a cloud has covered you. Drive away the cloud. There is no question that you were ever. You are ever-liberated (nitya-siddha). That, the sky is always spiritual, but it is sometimes overcrowded with cloud, this Maya. This is called Maya. Actually, you are NOT conditioned. You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream". (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-Caritamrita, Adi-lila 7.108--San Francisco, February 18, 1967)

I recently heard a lecture by Banu Swami in Melbourne Australia, and even he cannot understand that entering Goloka or Vaikuntha, is something to be regained (he was clearly making out the jiva had never previously been with Krishna that implies we come from the impersonal Brahmajyoti) Many cannot understand this word "regained" You are not alone Beggar.

Banu Swami could not understand that being a pure devotee is the eternal svarupa of ALL living entities and that IS our eternal constitutional position, it IS something to be regained, remembered, re-established.

Banu Swami gave many devotees the wrong understanding that most of us have never been with Krishna and that the 'jiva-soul' has come from the impersonal Brahmajyot and now must earn its right to enter Vaikuntha. This impersonal origins is NOT what Prabhupada has taught us - I did not like this aspect of his class at all even though he is a very learned humble selfless Vaishnava

We are already liberated right now, we are with Krishna right now, we just have to REMEMBER who we really are instead of living in our own baddha-jiva imaginary dream creations, Srila Prabhupada is telling us

Thirdly, most will never understand this subject no matter how expertise it is written. Without the causeless kindness and mercy of one's Spiritual Master, the origin of the jiva soul will always remain a mystery and hidden secret from them, or maybe the Spiritual Master does not reveal this such knowledge to everyone because it is not nessessary for everyone to know, after all we all have different personal individual relationships with Krishna - Your quote Beggar sums this up,

"The real guru is expert at applying these apparently contradictory concepts for the correct time, place and circumstance because he has a mature, developed relationship with Krsna.

He is experiencing the real bliss of chanting the holy name of Krsna and we are all hankering after that experience.

This is what we are really after, not being right or correct about the origin of the soul question.

And besides even if we are correct, it can only be hollow words for us because we are not actually experiencing the spiritual reality".

Very well and excellently said Beggar, even Hari Sauri Prabhu (I am presently reading his books and I advice you and everyone else on this web site to get a copy of his Transcendental Diaries if you want to understand the mood of Srila Prabhupada), who I admire as one of Prabhupada's best disciples in understanding his books, would like the way you have explained this.

Hari Sauri Prabhu has told the devotees on many occasions over the years, that only our service (Bhakti) and purity can reveal the truth of Krishna Consciousness and not jnan alone

And as Beggar also wrote - "And besides even if we are correct, it can only be hollow words for us because we are not actually experiencing the spiritual reality".

Therefore books like, "The Mahajanas Have Difficulties" are written to say that it is ok when gurus fall down and this is what happens all the time. sucandra

I dont know about this book or these topics Sucandra. Bit isolated from the wider Vaisnava community here. Thx for the video its really beautiful and brings good memories.

For some the blue words and the red words will appear to be in conflict. Others will see that the "conflict" is built into the dualistic nature of the language itself and actually all these thoughts are in harmony.
Introduction to The Loving Search For the Lost Servant, by Srila Bhakti Raksak Sridhar-dev Goswami Maharaj:

Yeah, I fixed that, the color code I use ir Blue for Krishna, Vishnu tattvas and internal paraphenalla

Purple for the marginal living entities or all entities who are not Vishnu tattva

Brown for the material energy, mahat-tattva, ethereal vessels, biological vessels and every other kind of vessel within the mahat-tattva or material creation

Red should be used for arguments that one does not agree with Any suggestions?

There is no qustion about it, we all are the devotee pioneers of the internet

at least there is no mention of the long lost servant waking up under some bush in Goloka, from a long maya-slumber, or some other nonsense about the lack of time factor in the spiritual world

we were "lost" simply because we chose the material bank of the Viraja River, instead of swimming towards Vaikunthaloka.

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Kulapavana
we were "lost" simply because we chose the material bank of the Viraja River, instead of swimming towards Vaikunthaloka.


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No that is incorrect as Srila Prabhupada clearly explains.

We may have been to the vraj river or even the impersonal Brahmajyoti, but long, long, long before that, we were aware of being ALWAYS with Krishna in Goloka

All marginal living entities in Vaikuntha can project a hologram version of themselves known as the nitya-baddha consciousness.

This secondary self is a living holographic countefeit projection of the living entity that enables one to enter the mahat-tattva and attempt to fulfil their dreams to achieve anything they want, hence, you can have anything, it just may take you a billion life times in the mahat-tattva to achieve it.

And then it fades and becomes as if it never was, moving on again within the cycle of birth and death.

This sub-conscious projection of the self (a living hologram known as the baddha-jiva) is just as real as its nitya siddha bodily origins however, baddha-jivas experience, realities and perception of its existence is temporary and always in the mode of decay within the perishable mahat-tattva it takes shelter in.

The baddha-jiva consciousness manifests as soon as the marginal living entity chooses to serve their own selfish desires instead of Krishna in GOLOKA.

here we go again, with a totally bogus, and un-shastric dreamer-vada apa-siddhanta

Prabhu, it is painful to watch a senior devotee blabber such nonsense...

YOUR SOUL IS RIGHT HERE, IN YOUR HEART! not in Goloka!

if you do not accept that most basic teaching of Krsna in Bhagavad-gita, universally understood to be true by ALL Vedic schools, and by ALL Vaishnava sampradayas, how can you say you belong to the Brahma Madhva Gaudiya Sampradaya?

this concocted nonsense theory places you outside our disciplic succession... "But in course of time the succession was broken, and therefore the science as it is appears to be lost." BG 4.2

Vigraha, what Kulapavana wrote is not incorrect for it comes from the sastra but it is only one angle of vision from the locus of our present existence. How can we argue about where the jivas originate from if they are eternal and have no origin? And then again to say that "...the jivas originate from if they are eternal and have no origin" is merely a thought expressed in the English language. The entire transcedental subject is acintya bheda [a]bheda tattva.
It is inconceivable and within IT (Him/her) all opposites are harmonized. Why is it so important where we are dreaming from? It is really only important to understand that Krsna's eternal associates are fixed in their position, even if they have the potential to give up Krsna's eternal service (or dream it) they never really do so. Some of those associates like Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur, Srila B.V. Prabhupada have come to this earth in the last couple of centuries to rescue the fallen jivas. Such eternal associates of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Srila Rupa Goswami are just as worthy to be worshiped as Krsna Himself.

:<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Kulapavana
Here we go again, YOUR SOUL IS RIGHT HERE, IN YOUR HEART! not in Goloka!
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"You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there"<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p>
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"You are ever-liberated (nitya-siddha). The sky is always spiritual, but it is sometimes overcrowded with cloud",<o:p></o:p>
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Actually, you are NOT conditioned (nitya-baddha). You are thinking. Just like in the dream that tiger is eating you".<o:p></o:p>
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All marginal living entities in Vaikuntha can project a hologram version of themselves known as the nitya-baddha consciousness to the dreams of Maha-Vishnu. <o:p></o:p>
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This secondary self or baddha-jiva is a living holographic countefeit projection of the living entity that enables one to enter the mahat-tattva and attempt to fulfil their dreams to achieve anything they want

Mundaka Upanishad
1.10
The Purusha alone is verily the universe, which consists of work and austerity. O my good friend, he who knows this Brahman-the Supreme and the Immortal, hidden in the cave of the heart-cuts asunder even here the knot of ignorance.
2.1
The Luminous Brahman dwells in the cave of the heart and is known to move there. It is the great support of all; for in It is centred everything that moves, breathes, and blinks. O disciples, know that to be your Self-that which is both gross and subtle, which is adorable, supreme, and beyond the understanding of creatures.
-----------------------------

Again, and again the shastras, our gurus, and all the Vedic sages, speak of the soul, the imperishable spark of Brahman, situated in the region of the heart. But wait! Lo and behold, some Iskcon devotees invented a new understanding!!! There is a hologram in my heart, not my soul!!!

Get serious, who falls for such nonsense? A few Prabhupada-only fanatics?

I am very serious and always have been on this subject. My understanding has not changed since 1972

This is how His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada explains this to us.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p>
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Srila Prabhupada is saying that our original and perpetual state of being a nitya siddha bodily servant of Krishna, MEANS never falling down, however he is also saying that the memory of being nitya-siddha can be covered over by the choice to imagine your own existence without Krishna, just like one may go into a day dream in their present material body and dream they are a King, while in the meantime their 'dreaming' material body has not moved.

In this way Srila Prabhupada is saying that nitya siddha’s can be covered over only and the memory of being nitya-siddha forgotten, like one forgets their material body while dreaming. <o:p></o:p>
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What he means by saying nitya siddha's never fall down, is they are always nitya-siddhas just like the sun is always the sun even though it might be covered by the clouds. <o:p></o:p>
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Nitya siddha means eternally liberated or established, so when a nitya siddha becomes covered, like the cloud covers the sun, he becomes eternally conditioned or nitya baddha (due to the cloud covering) however the nitya-siddha body, like the Sun, is eternally there behind the clouds, behind the baddha-jiva consciousness.<o:p></o:p>
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In fact most devotees in Goloka never allow their awareness of being nitya-siddha be covered by the selfish nitya baddha sub-conscious dream state. <o:p></o:p>
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Therefore most marginal living entities do NOT allow themselves to be covered by non Krishna Conscious desires that manifest their baddha-jiva consciousness because their desire is to always put Krishna first by being absorbed in serving Him as nitya siddha.
Such inconceivable statements are mind-boggling because how is it possible to calculate % of a % in an endless Spiritual creation?
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So it is impotant to undertand that ALL nitya-siddhas never leave Goloka or Vaikuntha, some however, imagine and dream they do, BUT NEVER AS THEIR NITYA SIDDHA BODY. Most never enter the world of imagination and therefore never experience the shackles of Maya as nitya baddha.<o:p></o:p>
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Therefore, it is due to the cloud covering we cannot see our real eternal nitya-siddha identity because our awareness is now restricted by that cloud covering or nitya-baddha consciousness. <o:p></o:p>
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This cloud covering is all we are aware off because it has blocked out the sun. We are not able to see the sun shinning due to the cloud covering the sun. The sun is still there, just as our nitya-siddha body is there in Goloka however; it is not realized because of the cloud cover therefore, we are nitya-baddha. <o:p></o:p>
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We can’t be nitya-siddha at this time because we cannot see or be aware of that covered identity. <o:p></o:p>
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Therefore our only present awareness of ourselves is solely nitya-baddha and remains so until we remove the dark cloud covering of material desires by replacing them with devotional Krishna Conscious desires. <o:p></o:p>
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Then gradually the cloud cover or nitya-baddha dreaming condition is dissipated revealing the sun or our eternal nitya-siddha Krishna Conscious bodily identity eternally serving Krishna.

Exactly. Duly noted. And in this excerpt below, perhaps the word "entered" could be highlighted in blue, although it should be obvious to any partial observer that there is a gulf of difference between "waking up from a nightmare under a bush in Goloka" and "entered Vrndavana."

Okay, so now we see that the dreamer-vadis have introduced holograms into their vocabulary to describe their science-fictional account of the origin of the soul. It is becoming amusingly obvious where this all ultimately leading to: engrams. From holograms to engrams, then from engrams to full-on Dianetics as founded by HH L. Ron Hubbard.

engram: defined as a faithful recording of a moment of pain and unconsciousness. It is stored in the stimulus-response mechanism of (the reactive mind). It is not a memory. Engrams contain all perceptions present in a moment when pain is experienced but are not easily available to an individual's awareness because they are stored in the unconscious (the Reactive Mind). A goal of Dianetics is to assist a person in confronting such incidents bringing them into full awareness. -Wikepedia

I am sorry, but your understanding does not match that of our sampradaya, sruti, and smriti shastras. Regardless of what you think Prabhupada said (he most certainly never spoke of holograms in your heart), the authority of the Upanishads and Gita is superior to his words, and his words must always agree with the shastra or they are to be accepted as a "relative truth" only, suitable only for his disciples (the rope is a snake).

Jiv Jago Vedesu with your silly cheeky posts. We are all in Goloka right now! All you have to do is just wake up from your nonsese dreaming of thinking you are the material body you are in and see this truth for yourself

Formerly we were with Krsna in His Lila, or sport. Our present baddha jiva mundane consciousness dream state has put our awareness within the mahat-tattva cloud that may remain that way for a very, very, very, very, very long duration, therefore many creations within the mahat-tattva are coming and going. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p>
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Due to this long period of time it is sometimes said that we are ever conditioned. But this long duration of time becomes very insignificant when one actually wakes up from the material dream and comes to Krishna consciousness.

When that happens, one wakes up from their nitya-baddha condition and realizes their nitya-siddha body and that they were with Krishna all along.

Jaiva Dharma
Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur

Chapt. 15

Prameya: Jiva Tattva
The next day, Vrajanatha reached Srivasangana earlier than on previous days. The Vaisnavas from Godruma had also come before evening to take darsana of sandhya arati, and Sri Premadasa Paramahamsa Babaji, Vaisnava dasa, Advaita dasa, and other Vaisnavas were already seated in the arati-mandapa. When Vrajanatha saw the bhavas of the Vaisnavas from Godruma, he was struck with wonder, and thought, “I will perfect my life by having their association as soon as possible.” When those Vaisnavas saw his humble and devotional disposition, all of them bestowed their blessings on Vrajanatha.<o:p></o:p>
When arati was over, Vrajanatha and the elderly Babaji began to walk southwards together in the direction of Godruma. Raghunatha dasa Babaji saw an incessant stream of tears flowing from Vrajanatha’s eyes and, feeling very affectionate towards him, asked lovingly, “Baba, why are you weeping?”<o:p></o:p>
Vrajanatha said, “Prabhu, when I remember your sweet instructions, my heart becomes restless and the entire world seems to be devoid of all substance. My heart is becoming eager to take shelter at Sri Gaurangadeva’s lotus feet. Please be merciful to me and tell me who I really am according to tattva, and why I have come to this world.”<o:p></o:p>
Babaji: My dear son, you have blessed me by asking such a question. The day that the jiva first asks this question is the auspiciousday on which his good fortune arises. If you will kindly hear the fifth sloka of Dasa-mula, all your doubts will be dispelled.<o:p></o:p>
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Just as many tiny sparks burst out from a blazing fire, so the innumerable jivas are like atomic, spiritual particles in the rays of the spiritual sun, Sri Hari. Though these jivas are non-different from Sri Hari, they are also eternally different from Him. The eternal difference between the jiva and Isvara is that Isvara is the Lord and master of maya-sakti, whereas the jiva can fall under the control of maya, even in his liberated stage, due to his constitutional nature. <o:p></o:p>
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Vrajanatha: This is an exceptional siddhanta, and I would like to hear some Vedic evidence to support it. Sri Bhagavan’s statements are certainly Veda, but still, people will be bound to accept the teachings of Mahaprabhu if the Upanisads can substantiate this principle. Babaji: This tattva is described in many places in the Vedas. I will cite a few of them:<o:p></o:p>
Innumerable jivas emanate from para-brahma, just like tiny sparks from a fire.<o:p></o:p>
There are two positions about which the jiva-purusa should inquire – the inanimate material world, and the spiritual world. The jiva is situated in a third position, which is a dreamlike condition (svapna-sthana), and is the juncture (tatastha) between the other two. Being situated at the place where the two worlds meet, he sees both the jada-jagat (inert world) and the cid-jagat (spiritual world).<o:p></o:p>
This sloka describes the marginal nature of jiva-sakti. Again, it is said in Brhad-aranyaka Upanisad (4.3.18):<o:p></o:p>
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Just as a large fish in a river sometimes goes to the eastern bank and sometimes to the western bank, so the jiva, being situated in karana-jala (the water of cause that lies between the inert and conscious worlds), also gradually wanders to both banks, the place of dreaming and the place of wakefulness. <o:p></o:p>
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Vrajanatha: What is the Vedantic meaning of the word tatastha? <o:p></o:p>
Babaji: The space between the ocean and the land is called the tata (shore), but the place that touches the ocean is actually nothing but land, so where is the shore? The tata is the line of distinction separating the ocean and the land, and it is so fine that it cannot be seen with the gross eyes. If we compare the transcendental realm to the ocean, and the material world to the land, then tata is the subtle line that divides the two, and the jiva-sakti is situated at the place where the two meet. The jivas are like the countless atomic particles of light within the sunrays. Being situated in the middle place, the jivas see the spiritual world on one side and the material universe created by maya on the other. Just as Bhagavan’s spiritual sakti on one side is unlimited, maya-sakti on the other side is also very powerful. The innumerable subtle(suksma) jivas are situated between these two. The jivas are marginal by nature because they have manifested from Krsna’s tatasthasakti (marginal potency).<o:p></o:p>
Vrajanatha: What is the tatastha-svabhava (marginal nature)? <o:p></o:p>
Babaji: It is the nature that enables one to be situated between both worlds, and to see both sides. Tatastha-svabhava is the eligibility to come under the control of either of the saktis. Sometimes the shore is submerged in the river because of erosion, and then again it becomes one with the land because the river changes its course. If the jiva looks in the direction of Krsna – that is, towards the spiritual world – he is influenced by Krsna sakti. He then enters the spiritual world, and serves Bhagavan in his pure, conscious, spiritual form. However, if he looks towards maya, he becomes opposed to Krsna and is incarcerated by maya. This dual-faceted nature is called the tatastha-svabhava (marginal nature). <o:p></o:p>
Vrajanatha: Is there any material component in the jiva’s original constitution?<o:p></o:p>
Babaji: No, the jiva is created solely from the cit-sakti. He can be defeated – that is, covered by maya – because he is minute by nature and lacks spiritual power, but there is not even a scent of maya in the jiva’s existence.<o:p></o:p>
Vrajanatha: I have heard from my teacher that when a fraction of the conscious brahma is covered by maya, it becomes the jiva. He explained the sky to be always the indivisible maha-akasa, but when a part of it is enclosed in a pot, it becomes ghata-akasa. Similarly, the jiva is originally brahma, but when that brahma is covered by maya, the false ego of being a jiva develops. Is this conception correct? <o:p></o:p>
Babaji: This doctrine is only Mayavada. How can maya touch brahma? The Mayavadis propose that brahma has no sakti (luptasakti), so how can maya – which is a sakti – possibly approach brahma, if sakti is supposed to be non-existent? The conclusion is that maya cannot possibly cover brahma and cause such a miserablecondition. Conversely, if we accept the transcendental sakti (parasakti) of brahma, how can maya, which is an insignificant sakti, defeat the cit-sakti and create the jiva from brahma? Besides, brahma is indivisible, so how can such a brahma be divided? The idea that maya can act upon brahma is not acceptable. Maya plays no role in the creation of the jivas. Admittedly, the jiva is only atomic, but even so, it is still superior as a tattva to maya.

Vrajanatha: Once another teacher said that the jiva is nothing but a reflection of brahma. The sun is reflected in water, and similarly, brahma becomes jiva when it is reflected in maya. Is this conception correct?<o:p></o:p>
Babaji: Again this is simply another example of Mayavada philosophy.<o:p></o:p>
Brahma has no limits, and a limitless entity can never be reflected. The idea of limiting brahma is opposed to the conclusions of the Vedas, so this theory of reflection is to be rejected. Vrajanatha: A dig-vijaya sannyasi once told me that in reality there is no substance known as jiva. One only thinks of himself as a jiva because of illusion, and when the illusion is removed, there is only one indivisible brahma. Is this correct or not?<o:p></o:p>
Babaji: This is also Mayavada doctrine which has no foundation at all. According to sastra, ekam evadvitiyam: “There is nothing apart from brahma.” If there is nothing except brahma, where has the illusion come from, and who is supposed to be in illusion? If you say that brahma is in illusion, you are saying that brahma is not actually brahma; rather, it is insignificant. And if you propose that illusion is a separate and independent element, you negate the undivided oneness (advaya-jnana) of brahma.<o:p></o:p>
Vrajanatha: Once an influential brahmana pandita arrived in Navadvipa, and in a conference of intellectuals, he established that only the jiva exists. His theory was that this jiva creates everything in his dreams, and it is because of this that he enjoys happiness and suffers distress. Then, when the dream breaks, he sees that he is nothing but brahma. To what extent is this idea correct?<o:p></o:p>
Babaji: This is, again, Mayavada. If, as they say, brahma is undifferentiated, how can it possibly produce the jiva and his dreaming state? Mayavadis use examples, such as, ‘the illusion of seeing mother-of-pearl in an oyster shell as gold’ and ‘the illusion of taking a rope to be a snake,’ but their philosophy cannot provide a consistent basis for advaya-jnana.<o:p></o:p>
Vrajanatha: So maya has nothing whatever to do with creating the svarupa of the jivas – this has to be accepted. At the same time, I have also clearly understood that the jiva is by nature subject to the influence of maya. Now I want to know, did the cit-sakti create the jivas and give them their tatastha-svabhava (marginal nature)? <o:p></o:p>
Babaji: No, the cit-sakti is paripurna-sakti, the complete potency of Krsna, and its manifestations are all eternally perfect substances.The jiva is not nitya-siddha, although when he performs sadhana, he can become sadhana-siddha and enjoy transcendental happiness like the nitya-siddhas, eternally perfect beings. All the four types of Srimati Radhika’s sakhis are nitya-siddha, and they are direct expansions (kaya-vyuha) of the cit-sakti, Srimati Radhika Herself. All the jivas, on the other hand, have manifested from Sri Krsna’s jiva-sakti. The cit-sakti is Sri Krsna’s complete sakti, whereas the jiva-sakti is His incomplete sakti. Just as the complete tattvas are all transformations of the complete potency, similarly innumerable atomic, conscious jivas are transformations of the incomplete sakti.<o:p></o:p>
Sri Krsna, being established in each of His saktis, manifests His svarupa according to the nature of that sakti. When He is situated in the cit-svarupa, He manifests His svarupa as Sri Krsna and also as Narayana, the Lord of Paravyoma; when He is situated in the jiva-sakti, He manifests His svarupa as His vilasa-murti of Vraja, Baladeva; and being established in the maya-sakti, He manifests the three Visnu forms: Karanodakasayi, Ksirodakasayi and Garbhodakasayi. In His Krsna form in Vraja, He manifests all the spiritual affairs to the superlative degree. In His Baladeva svarupaas sesa-tattva, He manifests nitya-mukta-parsada-jivas, eternally liberated associates, who render eight types of service to Krsna sesitattva-svarupa, the origin of sesa-tattva. Again, as sesa-rupa Sankarsana in Paravyoma, He manifests eight types of servants to render eight kinds of services as eternally liberated associates of sesi-rupa Narayana. Maha-Visnu, who is an avatara of Sankarsana, situates Himself in the jiva-sakti, and in His Paramatma svarupa, He manifests the jivas who have the potential to be involved in the material world. These jivas are susceptible to the influence of maya, and unless they attain the shelter of the hladini-sakti of the cit-sakti by Bhagavan’s mercy, the possibility of their being defeated by maya remains. The countless conditioned jivas who have been conquered by maya are subordinate to the three modes of material nature. Bearing all this in mind, the siddhanta is that it is only the jiva-sakti, and not the cit-sakti, that manifests the jivas. <o:p></o:p>
Vrajanatha: You said earlier that the cit world is eternal, and so are the jivas. If this is true, how can an eternal entity possibly be created, manifested or produced? If it is created at some point of time, it must have been non-existent before that, so how can we accept that it is eternal?<o:p></o:p>
Babaji: The time and space that you experience in this material world are completely different from time and space in the spiritual world. Material time is divided into three aspects: past, present and future. However, in the spiritual world there is only one undivided, eternally present time. Every event of the spiritual world is eternally present.<o:p></o:p>
Whatever we say or describe in the material world is under the jurisdiction of material time and space, so when we say – “The jivas were created,” “The spiritual world was manifested,” or “There is no influence of maya in creating the form of the jivas,” – material time is bound to influence our language and our statements. This is inevitable in our conditioned state, so we cannot remove the influence of material time from our descriptions of the atomic jivaand spiritual objects. The conception of past, present and future always enters them in some way or another. Still, those who can discriminate properly can understand the application of the eternal present when they comprehend the purport of the descriptions of the spiritual world. Baba, be very careful in this matter. Give up the inevitable baseness, or the aspect of the description that is fit to be rejected, and have spiritual realization. <o:p></o:p>
All Vaisnavas say that the jiva is an eternal servant of Krsna, that his eternal nature is to serve Krsna, and that he is now bound by maya, because he has forgotten that eternal nature. However, everyone knows that the jiva is an eternal entity, of which there are two types: nitya-mukta and nitya-baddha. The subject has been explained in this way only because the conditioned human intellect being controlled by pramada (inattentiveness), is unable to comprehend a subject matter. Realized sadhakas, though, experience transcendental truth through their cit-samadhi. Our words always have some material limitation, so whatever we say will have some mayika defects. My dear son, you should always endeavor to realize the pure truth. Logic and argument cannot help at all in this regard, so it is futile to use them to try to understand inconceivable subject matters.<o:p></o:p>
I know that you will not be able to understand these subjects in a moment, but as you cultivate these transcendental moods within your heart, you will realize cinmaya-bhava more and more. In other words, all the transcendental moods will manifest themselves in the core of your purified heart. Your body is material, and all the activities of your body are also material, but the essence of your being is not material; you are an atomic conscious entity. The more you know yourself, the more you will be able to realize how your svarupa is a tattva superior to the world of maya. Even if I tell you, you will not realize it, or simply be hearing you will not attain it. Cultivate the practice of chanting hari-nama as much as possible. As you go on chanting hari-nama, these transcendental bhavas willbegin to manifest in your heart automatically, and to the degree that they do so, you will be able to realize the transcendental world. Mind and speech both have their origin in matter, and they cannot touch the transcendental truth, even with the greatest endeavor. The Vedas say in Taittiriya Upanisad (2.9)<o:p></o:p>
The speech and the mind return from brahma, being unable to attain Him.<o:p></o:p>
I advise you not to inquire about this matter from anyone, but to realize it yourself. I have just given you an indication (abhasa). <o:p></o:p>
Vrajanatha: You have explained that the jiva is like a spark of a burning fire, or an atomic particle in the rays of the spiritual sun. What is the role of jiva-sakti in this?<o:p></o:p>
Babaji: Krsna, who in these examples is compared to the blazing fire or the sun, is a self-manifest tattva. Within the compass of that blazing fire or sun – in other words, Krsna – everything is a spiritual manifestation, and the rays spread far and wide beyond its sphere. These rays are the fractional function (anu-karya) of the svarupa-sakti, and the rays within that fractional function are paramanu (atomic particles) of the spiritual sun. The jivas are compared to this very localized, atomic tattva. Svarupa-sakti manifests the world within the sphere of the spiritual sun, and the function outside the sphere of the sun is carried out by jiva-sakti, which is the direct partial representation of cit-sakti. Therefore, the activities related to the jiva are those of jiva-sakti. Parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate (Svetasvatara Upanisad 6.8), “That acintya-sakti is called para-sakti. Although it is one, this innate potency (sva-bhavikisakti) has manifold varieties based on jnana (spiritual knowledge), bala (spiritual strength), and kriya (spiritual activities).” According to this aphorism of sruti, the cit-sakti is a manifestation of the para-sakti. It emanates from its own sphere – the spiritual realm –as the jiva-sakti, and in the marginal region between the spiritualand the material worlds, it manifests innumerable, eternal jivas, who are like atomic particles in the rays of the spiritual sun. <o:p></o:p>
Vrajanatha: A burning fire, the sun, sparks, and the atomic particles of sunshine – these are all material objects. Why has a comparison been made with these material objects in the discussion of cit-tattva?<o:p></o:p>
Babaji: As I have already said, inevitably there are material defects in any material statements we make about cit-tattva, but what alternative do we have? We are obliged to use these examples, because we are helpless without them. Therefore, those who know tattva try to explain cid-vastu by comparing it to fire or the sun. In reality, Krsna is far superior to the sun; Krsna’s effulgence is far superior to the radiance of the sun; and Krsna’s rays and the atoms in them – that is the jiva-sakti and the jivas – are far superior to the rays of the sun and the atomic particles in the rays. Still, these examples have been used because there are many similarities within them.<o:p></o:p>
Examples can explain some of the spiritual qualities, but not all. The beauty of the sun’s light and the ability of its rays to illuminate other objects are both qualities that compare with the cittattva, for it is the quality of spirit to reveal its own beauty and to illuminate other objects. However, the scorching heat in the sunrays has no counterpart in the cid-vastu, nor does the fact that the rays are material. Again, if we say, “This milk is like water,” we are only considering the liquid quality of water in the comparison; otherwise, if all the qualities of water were present in milk, why would the water not become milk? Examples can explain certain specific qualities of an object, but not all of its qualities and traits.