A Message From Bhakti Caru Swami - Page 2

suchandra · 02-13-2008, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stonehearted

What, for example, might Bhakti Charu Maharaja, with whom I have a good relationship, say about an ISKCON leader (sannyasi, guru, GBC chairman, etc.) who asserts publicly that only one of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati's disciples was any good, and that all others became mayavadis or sahajiyas? How would such an assertion glorify Srila Sarasvati Thakura (to say that he was only able to make one good disciple--no, wait, that disciple descended from the spiritual world, so BSST didn't really have anything to do with that)?

If you have a good a relationship with HH BCS why not send him a mail and get it at first hand? The fallacy of present Vaishnavism is that a senior Vaishnava has to be a spiritual master and sitting on the vyasasana. This mentality will destroy or already has, the whole concept of perfect vedic knowledge. Unfortunately people can't even grasp the meaning of this simple point. However, looks like that the non-Vaishnavas are gradually getting watchful about this antagonism.
http://www.wissenswertes-online.de/spirit/crimes6.htm

Beggar · 02-13-2008, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moe

Yet another pathetic ignoramus who declines to properly study what are the facts in history.

suchandra · 02-13-2008, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beggar

"Just like Viśvāmitra. Viśvāmitra was being disturbed by some demons in the forest. They used to live in the forest. So Viśvāmitra was able to kill such demon, many demons, by his will. But he did not do so. He went to Mahārāja Daśaratha, father of Lord Rāmacandra, to request him that “Give your sons Rāma and Lakṣmaṇa. I will take them with me. They will kill that demon.” The killing is there, but the brāhmaṇa is not going to kill personally. Or the vaiśya is not meant for killing, neither the śūdras. Only the kṣatriyas. The kṣatriyas should be so trained up. Just like in USA there is some trouble in recruiting soldiers, because… Why the difficulty is? The difficulty is the training is like śūdras. The young men are trained up like śūdras, how they can fight? Therefore they are afraid (see pic above). They try to avoid fighting. Because there is no division. Everyone, in this age, everyone is śūdra. How you can expect a śūdra will be encouraged to fight? That is not possible. Therefore real social structure should be four divisions, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. Brāhmaṇa, fully engaged for enlightenment of the people, knowledge, spiritual knowledge. They are meant for that. They will cultivate that knowledge personally, paṭhana pāṭhana, and make students. Brahminical class. Similarly kṣatriya. They should be trained up in politics, in fighting, not to flee away from fighting (see pic above). These are the training of the kṣatriyas."

Bhagavad-gītā 2.36-37
by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda
London, September 4, 1973
730904BG.LON

http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/730904BG.LON.htm

bhaktajan

Can some help me? Please post the quote that Sri Ramachandra said in regards to Sugriva (I think it was Sugriva):

That Rama said that he would go with his respected friend to hell rather than abandon him (due to the selfless bond that Sugriva also had).

ys,
Bhaktajan

Beggar · 02-13-2008, 11:31 AM

Help the Ksatriyas are coming!!!

suchandra · 02-13-2008, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beggar

Help the Ksatriyas are coming!!!

In the minds of those who are too attached to sense enjoyment and material opulence, and who are bewildered by such things, the resolute determination for devotional service to the Supreme Lord does not take place. BG 2.44

PURPORT

Samādhi means "fixed mind." The Vedic dictionary, the Nirukti, says, samyag ādhīyate 'sminn ātma-tattva-yāthātmyam: "When the mind is fixed for understanding the self, it is said to be in samādhi. " Samādhi is never possible for persons interested in material sense enjoyment, nor for those who are bewildered by such temporary things. They are more or less condemned by the process of material energy.

http://vedabase.net/bg/2/44/en

Beggar · 02-13-2008, 12:15 PM

Why me?

So you are saying that I am more or less condemned by the process of material energy? I'm afraid to shave up!

bhaktajan · **allo allo Mon ami ! Come se va? Bon? -** 02-13-2008, 12:19 PM

Isopanisad 8 Purport . . . God is described here as paribhüù, the greatest of all. No one is greater than or equal to Him. Other living beings are described here as beggars who ask goods from the Lord. The Lord supplies the things the living entities desire. If the entities were equal to the Lord in potency—if they were omnipotent and omniscient—there would be no question of their begging from the Lord, even for so-called liberation. Real liberation means going back to Godhead. Liberation as conceived of by an impersonalist is a myth, and begging for sense gratification has to continue eternally unless the beggar comes to his spiritual senses and realizes his constitutional position. . . .

Le petite Rascals:

Beggar · 01:34 PM

Monsieur bhaktajan vous devez immédiatement observer cette vidéo, Yum Yum Eatum vers le haut ! Les Petits Rascals - Notre Troupe...

(Mister bhaktajan you must immediately watch this video, Yum Yum Eatum Up! The Little Rascals - Our Gang...)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K64V7...eature=related

Vedesu · **I could be mistaken but... -** 02-13-2008, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beggar

Why me?

So you are saying that I am more or less condemned by the process of material energy? I'm afraid to shave up!

The way I read it, he was trying to say: In Soviet-occupied Russia, a sinister madman conives to maintain total control as spectators watch the historic flags of Soviet regiments leave to cross the Rhine into Germany, Aug. 19, 1945, in Moscow.

suchandra · 02-13-2008, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhaktajan

Can some help me? Please post the quote that Sri Ramachandra said in regards to Sugriva (I think it was Sugriva):

That Rama said that he would go with his respected friend to hell rather than abandon him (due to the selfless bond that Sugriva also had).

ys,
Bhaktajan

Could only find this:

RAMA CHOOSES TO ALLY WITH SUGREEVA

"Lakshmana had his misgivings. 'I am not certain whether Sugreeva is trying to involve you in anything more than an ordinary combat between monkeys. I do not know if we should participate in this struggle at all. How can you trust as an ally one who has not hesitated to intrigue fatally against a brother?'" (from Valmiki, trans. R.K. Narayan)

Defining the Dilemma

After Ravana has captured Sita, Rama desperately searches for a way to save her. As he is traveling in the kingdom of Kishkindha, he comes upon Sugreeva, a deposed king of the monkey kingdom, and Hanuman, his general. Sugreeva explains to Rama that he has been deposed by his ruthless brother, Vali, who has captured his wife and imprisoned his friends. Now, alone and afraid, Sugreeva has been tormented by his brother and the various vanaras that he has sent to kill him. Hanuman assures Rama that Sugreeva is telling the truth. When Sugreeva shows compassion for Rama's loss of his wife, Rama promises to help him defeat his brother.

After this promise is made, Sugreeva continues to explain how he had been deposed by his brother. It seems that Vali, his elder brother, was king when a demon threatened his kingdom. Vali left the palace with Sugreeva at his side, in pursuit of the demon. Realizing that Vali was a formidable opponent, the demon hid in a cave to try to escape the mighty Vali. At this point, Sugreeva was asked to promise his brother to stay by the door of the cave so that Vali could enter the cave, kill the demon, and return to the palace. Sugreeva waited a year, and, when Vali did not return, he assumed that his brother had died. He placed a large bolder in front of the door of the cave and returned to the palace where he took over the throne and ruled as king. Vali was not dead, however. When he returned, he was angry with his brother for leaving the cave and for usurping his power. He banished him from the kingdom, took Sugreeva's wife for his own, and placed all of Sugreeva's ministers in prison. Sugreeva lives in exile, living in constant fear of his mighty brother's wrath.

Full of confidence for acquiring his new ally, Sugreeva enters the battle with Vali. Vali appears invincible. As Rama watches from behind a tree, Sugreeva pleads with him for assistance. Rama instructs him to wear a garland of flowers around his neck while fighting Vali because they look so much alike to him. Sugreeva returns to the battle and is eventually overcome by Vali's strength. As Vali holds Sugreeva's neck in his clutches, the younger brother makes a last plea to Rama to save him. Rama shoots his arrow from behind the tree, killing Vali. Sugreeva is returned to the throne, and his army joins Rama's cause.

Outcomes / Consequences

Rama has promised to fight on the side of Sugreeva, but he did so before he knew all of the details of Sugreeva's exile. If he kills Vali, he could be accused of interfering in an affair between brothers. Sugreeva may not in fact be on the side of righteousness in this scenario, for he has violated his dharma by usurping power from his brother who was still alive and depending on him to be waiting outside the cave.

Vali is a powerful figure, and he has been given a boon by the gods which allows him to drain half the power from his opponents and use it against them. Rama's success in this battle is not guaranteed. If Rama chooses not to kill Vali, he will have broken a promise to a friend. Rama needs a powerful army to help rescue his missing wife. An alliance with Sugreeva and helping him recapture the throne, would place Sugreeva's powerful army at Rama's disposal, including the resourceful general, Hanuman.

Dharma

According to the rules of dharma, a warrior must first declare himself an enemy of his opponent before entering into battle. Secondly, a warrior's attack must never take place in secret (Rama attacked Vali from a hidden spot behind a tree). Vali, having heard a rumor of Rama's alliance with Sugreeva, tells his wife that Rama is too noble a warrior to enter into this fight without declaring himself.

Vali had committed a sin against his own dharma by capturing his brother's wife and keeping her as his own.

According to the dharma of a king, one may settle disputes within one's territory, even if the disputes exist between brothers, and a king may punish within his own kingdom any one of his subjects who has committed a breach of dharma; however, Rama is not the king of Vali's territory.

A king's dharma includes the power to punish, so long as the punishment is just. Unjust punishments could result in the destruction of the king and his family (Rama and Vali are both kings).

As a warrior, Rama is entitled by dharma to hunt forest creatures (Vali is a monkey).

bhaktajan

Quote:

Originally Posted by suchandra . . .Sugreeva has been tormented by his brother and the various vanaras that he has sent to kill him. Hanuman assures Rama that Sugreeva is telling the truth. When Sugreeva shows compassion for Rama's loss of his wife, Rama promises to help him defeat his brother. . . .

Thank you, Prabhu Suchandra. This is great.

I saw the qoute by Rama in the Sagar's Indian epic movie series "Ramayana" years ago. Rama actually makes a small speech regarding going to hell for his friends if need be ... my desire is to re-hear the reasoning behind that sentiment--how it is logical etc. [if I heard it right ]

Kulapavana · 02-14-2008, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhaktajan

I saw the qoute by Rama in the Sagar's Indian epic movie series "Ramayana" years ago. Rama actually makes a small speech regarding going to hell for his friends if need be ... my desire is to re-hear the reasoning behind that sentiment--how it is logical etc. [if I heard it right ]

The Bollywood version of the scriptures can only be compared with Hollywood version of reality. On top of that there are hundreds of different Ramayana versions circulating in India.

vijay · **Another author -** 02-17-2008, 02:44 PM

Haribol prabhu

I think the author may of been Mahatma prabhu (ACBVP) not Bhakticaru Swami.
Heres a link I found http://www.prabhupada.org/rama/?p=4187

Vijay

suchandra · 02-17-2008, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vijay

Haribol prabhu

I think the author may of been Mahatma prabhu (ACBVP) not Bhakticaru Swami.
Heres a link I found http://www.prabhupada.org/rama/?p=4187

Vijay

It is indeed confusing, I got the article as an email, saying, "A Message from Bhakti Caru Swami, by Mahatma das". Here a screenshot from the original mail.

AncientMariner · 02-17-2008, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suchandra

Thanks LoveroftheBhagavata, Bhakti Caru Swami (BCS) seems to always be trying to follow his spiritual master with great sincerity - here a few quotes of him about guru-tattva:

"Bhakti Marg Maharaja, he is kind of, even, he was telling me yesterday when he gives
initiation he tells his disciples that you are actually Prabhupada's disciple and I am taking care of you, trying to help you to become engaged in Srila Prabhupada's mission.
Now that's actually the crux of the whole thing, that if everybody understands and makes that point clear to their disciples then I think that a lot of our problems will be solved."
(BCS, Toronto meeting)

"I make it very clear to them that disciples in ISKCON do not belong to their gurus; they
belong to Srila Prabhupada."
(BCS Istagosthi)

"A devotee who joins the movement and is trained and cultivated by ISKCON in the form of the local temple devotees. He is doing fine and being trained up nicely.But then he gets initiated by somebody who comes to that place once in a blue moon, but because he has been initiated by him he begins to think that he is his authority and the local devotees don't mean anything to him anymore."
(BCS, Disciples Meeting)

"We must recognize that our first loyalty is to the local temple and the temple authority. And as a spiritual master what should I do? I think as a spiritual master it is my responsibility to reconfirm and reestablish that relationship with the local temple and temple authority."
(BCS, Disciples Meeting)

"Why do we hesitate to tell a new comer who is searching for a guru that Srila Prabhupada, the best guru the world has ever seen, is still here, and one can surrender unto him and go back to Godhead very easily?"
(BCS Offering an Srila Prabhupada's Disappearance Day)

"Initiation has two objectives. One is to receive the mantra and the other is to formalize surrender. In today's context the important consideration is the surrender. [...] If you are surrendering to me, formalizing your surrender, then what kind of responsibility do I have to you. It is to transmit your surrender to the institution of ISKCON. Generally the guru transmits this to Krsna, but here I am not directly representing Krsna. I am representing Krsna through the via medium of Srila Prabhupada and ISKCON."
(BCS, Disciples Meeting)

"Generally, a guru establishes a link between Krsna and his disciple. [...] Srila Prabhupada, as the pre-eminent acarya, takes you to Krsna and engages you in His service."
(BCS Istaghosti, Text PAMHO: 13658994 )

"I cannot lead you to Krsna."
(BCS Istagosthi)

"Srila Prabhupada will take you to Krsna."
(BCS, Durban disciples meeting)

"Usually the guru has an ashram and his disciples come to the ashram and get trained by the guru. [...] ISKCON is Srila Prabhupada's ashram. [...] Generally the guru has an ashram and he hands over the authority of the ashram to one disciple.
He appoints a successor. But Srila Prabhupada didn't do that in ISKCON. [..] Rather, Prabhupada wanted us to manage the society collectively through the Governing Body."
(BCS, Disciples Meeting)

"Now let us come to your point. Yes, devotees need a qualified spiritual master and I will say in ISKCON we have the most qualified spiritual master who is Srila Prabhupada. And everyone in ISKCON is meant to represent Srila Prabhupada. In ISKCON who is the ultimate spiritual master? You need a spiritual master, but who is that spiritual master? It is Srila Prabhupada."
(BCS, Disciples Meeting)

"What Jesus is to Christianity and what Muhammed is to Islam, Srila Prabhupada should be that to ISKCON."
(BCS, Day 3, LA Seminar, "Questions and Answers")

"After Harikesa fell down in 1998, in 1999 I proposed that it's obvious that we are going in the wrong direction. Now, when you go wrong, when you know you're going in the wrong direction, what do you do? You stop to find the right way. So for the time being, let's stop giving initiation and find out what is actually the problem and what is the solution to this problem, whether we can find a solution and until then, let us stop."
(Bhakti Caru Swami, Toronto lecture)

"And what is the line of authority structure in ISKCON? The line of authority is that Srila
Prabhupada is the FounderAcarya of ISKCON. Where does our ultimate loyalty lie? It lies with Srila Prabhupada.Then Prabhupada pointed out that the GBC is the ultimate managing authority in ISKCON. In the line of authority, next to Srila Prabhupada is the GBC body, and then there is the GBC member; everyone has a GBC member who is the zonal secretary.So we should be loyal to the GBC body and to the GBC member. And then there is the temple unit and in the temple who is the person in charge of the temple? It is the temple president. [...] In this way we have the line of authority."
(BCS, Disciples Meeting)

"I give initiation because I have been asked to do so. If ISKCON tells me, "initiate," I initiate. And if the GBC tells me, "don't initiate," I don't initiate."
(BCS Istagosthi)

'Our main problem was introducing a defective initiation system. And that defective system may have been watered down to some extent but it's still prevailing."
(BCS, Toronto meeting)

"Your diksa guru is giving you diksa because the institution of ISKCON decided that he
should give diksa."
(BCS, Text PAMH06829041)

"Compared to during Srila Prabhupadas time, ISKCON is stagnant. When you go to the West, you see Indians manning the temples. This means that Westerners are not joining, and Indians, because it is their thing, are joining despite our lack of preaching."
(Bhakti Caru Swami, lecture)

Don't know anything about Bhakti Caru Swami but from these quotes it sounds like he is a ritvik? That trips me out because I have heard a lot about how evil and awful the ritviks are from most Iskcon devotees and it appears that one of the respected iskcon gurus is essentially acting as a ritvik? I never can seem to fully understand all of these philosophical debates and transcendental contradictions within Iskcon.

Beggar · 02-17-2008, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AncientMariner

Don't know anything about Bhakti Caru Swami but from these quotes it sounds like he is a ritvik? That trips me out because I have heard a lot about how evil and awful the ritviks are from most Iskcon devotees and it appears that one of the respected iskcon gurus is essentially acting as a ritvik? I never can seem to fully understand all of these philosophical debates and transcendental contradictions within Iskcon.

What you call rtvik is really hard rtvik. ISKCON is soft rtvik.

theist

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beggar

What you call rtvik is really hard rtvik. ISKCON is soft rtvik.

That should clear it up for him.

Designations layered upon designations is no way to escape the world of names.

Beggar · 02-18-2008, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theist

That should clear it up for him.

Designations layered upon designations is no way to escape the world of names.

If you're going to rtvik loka, there's going to be some gentle people there.
All across the ISKCON nation there's a new generation, there's a new vibration, rtivks in motion, rtiviks in motion...
If you're going to rtvik loka, be sure to put a flower in your hair. If you're going to rtvik loka...

Help the Rtviks are coming!!!

suchandra · 02-18-2008, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beggar

If you're going to rtvik loka, there's going to be some gentle people there.
All across the ISKCON nation there's a new generation, there's a new vibration, rtivks in motion, rtiviks in motion...
If you're going to rtvik loka, be sure to put a flower in your hair. If you're going to rtvik loka...

Help the Rtviks are coming!!!

Well, you could also say, no, the ritviks are not coming but present gurus are performing inefficiently, filing petitions in bankruptcy and send their disciples to social assistance office. Underachievement also in transcendental literature being distributed. What whole NA does was doubled by the small Swiss yatra during Prabhupada's time.
Folks like Curly Howard (pic above) of course say, abolish hawking with religious books altogether. But if according Jaya-Gurudeva das, Prague, the "mleccha religions", like Jehovah's witnesses can distribute their magazine as a twice-monthly printing exceeding 16 million copies, why not the sura religion?

"- 13% - change compared to last year".

Scores received thru 02/16/2008

North American offering to Srila Prabhupada

MahaBig Big Medium Small BTGs Total Total % Templ/
Books Books Books Books Mags Books Points Change Devotee
--------------------------------------------------------------------
January 4398 4390 6341 15708 1295 32132 16280.35 -13% 24/ 67
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Totals 4398 4390 6341 15708 1295 32132 16280.35 -13% 24/ 67
(%)Change compared
to last year

source: http://books.google.com/books?id=5c4...8yt-Q1twdFkf4k