ISKCON "guru" chastised and disciplined! - Page 10

Laulyam · **Sri Krsna-samhita/ Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur -** 07-25-2007, 12:13 PM

Sri Krsna-samhita Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur
Chapter 8 Text 20

dhenukah sthula-buddhih syad garddabhas tala-rodhakah
astame laksyate dosah sampradaye satam mahan

Subtle discrimination is extremely important for Vaisnavas. Those who invent social distinctions and preach the unbreakable principles of Vaisnavism while breaking them to suit their needs are said to possess gross discrimination.This gross discrimination takes the form of the ass Dhenuka.The ass cannot eat the sweet palm tree fruits, and he opposes others' attemps to eat them.The purport is that the previous acaryas of the authorized sampradayas have written many spiritual literatures, which people with gross discrimination neither understand nor allow others to see.Asslike devotees who are simply interested in the regulative principles and under the control of gross discrimination are unable to attain a higher platform. Vaisnava principles are so unlimitedly exalted that those who simply remain entangled in the regulative process without endeavoring to understand the science of attachment are comparable to ordinary fruitive workers. Therefore, until the ass Dhenukasura is killed, one cannot advance in the science of Vaisnavism

theist · 07-25-2007, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BhaktaTom

Madhudvisa: Is there any way for a Christian to, without the help of a Spiritual Master, to reach the spiritual sky through believing the words of Jesus Christ and trying to follow his teachings?

Srila Prabhupada: I don't follow.

Tamal Krsna: Can a Christian in this age, without a Spiritual Master, but by reading the Bible, and following Jesus's words, reach the...

Srila Prabhupada: When you read the Bible, you follow Spiritual Master. How can you say without? As soon as you read the Bible, that means you are following the instruction of Lord Jesus Christ, that means that you are following Spiritual Master. So where is the opportunity of being without Spiritual Master?

Madhudvisa: I was referring to a living Spiritual Master.

Srila Prabhupada: Spiritual Master is not question of...Spiritual Master is eternal. Spiritual Master is eternal...So your question is 'without Spiritual Master'. Without Spiritual Master you cannot be at any stage of your life. You may accept this Spiritual Master or that Spiritual Master. That is a different thing. But you have to accept. As you say that "by reading Bible", when you read Bible that means you are following the Spiritual Master represented by some priest or some clergyman in the line of Lord Jesus Christ.
(SP Lecture, 2/10/68, Seattle )

And this priciole is not limited to those that call themselves Christians only. Who said it was so? Prove it!

Nor does the descretion to pick up sastra and follow the specific instructions of a certain teacher depend on the "blessing" of a ritvik or your local church pastor. Such people can be helpful as siksa guru's of one potency or another but they are never to be considered necessary to establish a connection with the Divine.

We, as marginal beings, are to excercise our will to learn and serve and that will is heard first by Caitya guru in the heart and He responds freely without first feeling obligated to have you check in with your local pastor or ritvik for some offical stamp of approval.

theist · **Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu as the universal guru -** 07-25-2007, 01:15 PM

Quote:

"If a devotee accepts Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu as the universal guru and Lord Jagannatha as the Supreme Personality of Godhead Krsna, he is benefited by the combined mercy of Krsna and guru." - Madhya 13.18 purport

When will this statement written by Srila Prabhupada receive the consideration it deserves in relation to this topic? One needn't feel pressed to accept some false imitation of guru especially when the real guru is eternally present with us. And that eternal connection to guru has come to the world in the most munficent form of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu who is to this day distributing the Maha mantra freely...we need only accept.

Guruvani · 07-25-2007, 01:26 PM

In this verse it says that the great spiritual masters are merciful to their followers as well as their disciples.
You can be a follower of a spiritual master without being a formally initiated disciple.
The followers are called anuvratānām ...

and they are on the same level as disciples according to this verse and purport.

Quote:

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 3.7.36

anuvratānāḿ śiṣyāṇāḿ
putrāṇāḿ ca dvijottama
anāpṛṣṭam api brūyur
guravo dīna-vatsalāḥ

SYNONYMS
anuvratānām — the followers; śiṣyāṇām — of the disciples; putrāṇām — of the sons; ca — also; dvija-uttama — O best amongst the brāhmaṇas; anāpṛṣṭam — that which is not asked for; api — in spite of; brūyuḥ — please describe; guravaḥ — the spiritual masters; dīna-vatsalāḥ — who are kind to the needy.

TRANSLATION
O best among the brāhmaṇas, those who are spiritual masters are very kind to the needy. They are always kind to their followers, disciples and sons, and without being asked by them, the spiritual master describes all that is knowledge.

PURPORT
There are many subjects to be known from the bona fide spiritual master. The followers, disciples and sons are all on one level for the bona fide spiritual master, and he is always kind to them and always speaks to them on transcendental subjects, even though he is not asked by them. That is the nature of the bona fide spiritual master. Vidura appealed to Maitreya Muni to speak on subjects about which he might not have asked.

sanatan · 07-26-2007, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guruvani

In this verse it says that the great spiritual masters are merciful to their followers as well as their disciples.
You can be a follower of a spiritual master without being a formally initiated disciple.
The followers are called anuvratānām ...

and they are on the same level as disciples according to this verse and purport.

Thanks for posting this.

Very good and encouraging knowledge, as I "missed" direct connection with Srila Prabhupada in the early days, and the closest person to have possibly been diksa-guru for me was Tamal Krishna Maharaja. Since his passing, I haven't again formed this type of relationship, and don't forsee it happening in the future.

fish · 07-26-2007, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guest

Are you saying the GBC should be replaced if it 'does not follow'?
Who would replace it? Who watches the watchers? It all began with bona fide guru. That is what we need. Bona fide guru. Nowhere to be found at the moment.

Krishna speaks: address to the guru. If there is no guru why Krishna speaks? There can be you began more cleverly Krishna?
Shrila Prabhupada is pure devotee and would be silly think that pure devotee cannot to make others pure devotee. Anyone who speaks the same, that Krishna - guru. Simply repeating after Shrila Prabhupada anyone becomes qualified.

**ipso facto -** 07-26-2007, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fish

Simply repeating after Shrila Prabhupada anyone becomes qualified.

Then the GBC are not qualified.

Krishna_Shakha_Dasa · 07-26-2007, 05:50 PM

Hare Krishna

fish · 07-31-2007, 02:50 PM

While everyone repeats the same that Krishna speaks, he is qualified. Please try understand, that the idea to reject GBC is idea of the neophyte. Three lines should be observed simultaneously - a scripture, the guru and a sadhu. Not two lines, three. If you create two lines you create visibility of religion, formal religion, and your transport will not move. If your idea is not maintained by a scripture, it is not viable. First of all all are necessary three - a scripture, the guru and sadhu (council). The community is necessary. In council not necessarily there should be all gurus or pure devoties. Shrila Prabhupada did not deliver such idea. Сouncil can be from any most active in devotional service of people. And if from them does not correspond, it is possible to replace him with another. That is all.

theist · 07-31-2007, 03:44 PM

Quote:

While everyone repeats the same that Krishna speaks, he is qualified.

More is expected of a guru than just repeating Krsna's words. Suppose someone repeats Krsna's words nicely and then after the lecture goes to bed with his godbrothers wife. And the GBC finds out and does still gives this "guru" their stamp of approval. To any intelligent person this is a clear signal that those who make up the GBC plus the phony guru are bhogus.

Not hard to understand.

cbrahma · **reality and idea -** 07-31-2007, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fish

While everyone repeats the same that Krishna speaks, he is qualified. Please try understand, that the idea to reject GBC is idea of the neophyte. Three lines should be observed simultaneously - a scripture, the guru and a sadhu. Not two lines, three. If you create two lines you create visibility of religion, formal religion, and your transport will not move. If your idea is not maintained by a scripture, it is not viable. First of all all are necessary three - a scripture, the guru and sadhu (council). The community is necessary. In council not necessarily there should be all gurus or pure devoties. Shrila Prabhupada did not deliver such idea. Сouncil can be from any most active in devotional service of people. And if from them does not correspond, it is possible to replace him with another. That is all.

You seem to be unable to distinguish between the idea of a GBC (in principle) and what passes as a GBC now. Nobody is advocated "Doing away with GBC" in principle - just this horribly corrupt version of it.

looking · 08-02-2007, 06:17 AM

all I can say is "hmmm?"

Murali_Mohan_das · 08-03-2007, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guruvani

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 3.7.36
PURPORT

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guruvani

There are many subjects to be known from the bona fide spiritual master. The followers, disciples and sons are all on one level for the bona fide spiritual master, and he is always kind to them and always speaks to them on transcendental subjects, even though he is not asked by them. That is the nature of the bona fide spiritual master. Vidura appealed to Maitreya Muni to speak on subjects about which he might not have asked.

This is classic!!!

How many times have we sat at the foot of Gurudev wishing we had a question to ask? How many times have our heads filled with the most trivial and silly of questions with which to pester Gurudev?

Yet, so patiently, he tells us what we *NEED* to know, not necessarily what we *WANT* to know!!

Jai Gurudev!!!