Namaste to adi_shakthi and everyone in the group!

>colin, dear one, thanks for doing all the 'leg' work on the
>authencity of the web version of the SAti story.

I'm glad that what I wrote was of interest.

>here are some questions i want to ask all of you?
>1) what do you learn from the 'sati' story.

I think that there is more than one meaning or lesson here. How each of us
reads it depends on which character we focus on (Daksha, Shiva, or Sati
herself),I as well as on which version(s) of the story we look at, and on
our own interests and concerns.

I'll focus now on Sati herself. To understand what her response to Daksha's
yajna, I think it's necessary to look at where she is coming from -- her
life up till that point. And also at where she is going to, in her next
incarnation as Parvati.

In all versions of the story that I know of, Sati's early life is one of
great self-discipline, expressed in fasting, meditation and yogic
austerities. The point of her yoga is not renunciation of all desire, but
attainment of her desire for Shiva. According to the Kalika Purana, Shiva
is originally very averse to the idea of loving of woman. Sati does win
Shiva's love, they marry, and they are very happy together.

(I must say here that I don't find the anecodote from the Ramayana very
relevant. It may tell us how Shiva and Sati have been seen by devotees of
Rama and Sita. But I am much more interested in how they have been seen by
_their own_ devotees. So I would give much greater weight to the Shiva
Purana and the Kalika Purana.)

When Sati gives up her life, it can been seen as a continuation of her
yogic austerity. The Shiva Purana in fact says that she burned her body to
ashes 'by yogic means'. It is a remarkable act, because she not only
renouncing her own present happiness, she is also taking away (for the
present) the happiness of her beloved husband. Yet when she leaves the
world she is determined to return to it. She is going to come back as
Parvati. Again she will win the love of Lord Shiva. The difference is that
the couple will be fully accepted by Parvati's relatives.

The nuclear family, husband and kids, is not all that Sati desires. She
needs to be part of a harmonious extended family, a community based on
kinship. Daksha's position makes it impossible for her, as Sati, to realize
this aspiration. She will realize it as Parvati.

Looked at this way, the great theme of the Sati story is the _power of resolve_.

>2) should a woman defend her husband's honor at all costs?

What a woman should do depends on her values and her beliefs.

There's a conversation in _Alice in Wonderland_. Alice asks one of the
other characters (I forget who) "Which way should I go?" The character
replies: "That very much depends on where you want to get to."

>3) how does a man grieve for his beloved wife?

Do you mean "how does he" or "how should he"? In the Kalika Purana version,
Shiva's way of grieving involves destructiveness and apparent loss of
control. I would be reluctant to say a man _should_ grieve like this. Men
_do_ grieve like this very often.

However, early in the Kalika Purana version of the story, Lord Brahma makes
a very important speech to Shiva. He says that Shiva's very tranquility
could stop Shiva from fulfilling his destined role in the universe, as one
of the three great gods. He argues that Shiva needs to accept the love of a
woman and experience all kinds of emotion.

So Shiva's spectacular grieving can be seen as part of the path he is
destined to walk.

>4) finally, are these myrths or legends or cock-and bull stories?

I see myths like this as _meaningful stories_.

I take a similar view of the miraculous events described in the Christian
Bible -- Eve and the Serpent, Noah and his Ark, the Virgin Birth and the
Resurrection.

>COLIN, you are indded an asset to this cyber shrine . please keep
>sharing your views - keeps this temple pulsating with 'energy'

You are very kind. I hope this posting has not disappointed. Please tell me
now what you think about these questions.

Love,

Colin.

colin, dearest, it is so fascinating to read all your well-documented
response. between you and abvasa, we never have a 'dull' moment! .
you keep us on our toes. in the process, we also get 'en-lightened'
smiles!

yes, how did u know 'alice in wonderland' was my favorite story - i
have long since graduated from my 'lewis carroll' days - i also feel
like 'adi in cyber wander-land' sometimes. sometimes i feel 2inches
tall and sometimes a 6 footer! depends on whom i am with at the
moment!!!!

dear colin , i can understand how you view ramayana - but please
allow me to share something on this great epic. it is said, lord
shiva wanted to experience the 'dasya' bhava of bhakti and that is
why he incarnated as lord hanumann and serve lord rama as his loyal
and faithful servant. and....

if you go to india, please visit The island of Rameshwaram is one of
the most venerable temple towns in India, the pilgrimage ofevery a
devout Hindu. It was here that Lord Rama prayed to Lord Shiva to
forgive his sin of killing Ravana, thereby making it a sacred site
for both Shaivites and Vaishnavites. as you know, ravana was a great
shiva bhakta.

so, for me all epics, puranas are 'sacred' - i learn something from
each one of them.

yes, the story of sati is fascinating - i liked the phrase 'the power
of resolve. ' yes, once a woman makes up her mind , nothing can stand
in her way! Our chaste 'sati' incarnated as the beautiful 'parvati'
to win the hand of shiva. did you know what austerities and 'tapas'
she had to peform to be shiva's consort? in fact, young women in
india are always advised to pray to lord shiva if they want to marry
a man of their choice. being a 'romantic' by
nature, 'kumarasambhavam' -the timeless classic of kalidasa (the
shakespear of india) was one of my favorites.... here kalidasa
beautifully decribes a lovelorn 'parvati' pining for her beloved the
ascetic shiva....,

also in this incarnation, parvastti becomes the 'proud' mother of two
sons ganesha and karthikeya - in fact, the birth of karthikeya has a
special significance as it was believed that only a 'child' born to
shiva-parvati cdouls slay the demon taraka. so, here is another
reason for sati's incarnation -to complete he family circle.


as a woman, i always like the eternal and blissful union of shiva and
shakti, radha and krishna and narayana and narayani, rama and
sita ... to me, the concept of who is superior or inferior does not
arise at all... they are equal- one indivisible whole ! can you
worship the father without the mother? who gives birth to our father?
mother of course! who gave birth to jesus- virgin mary, of cousre!
and whose son is jesus- his father's son, of course! similarly, when
you worship ganesha , you are worshipping parvati and parameshwwera
and when you are worshipping parvati you are also worshipping shiva
and vice-versa!!!

so coming to the next point, definitely i would not want any man to
grieve like shiva did for sati but by the same token i would not like
my man to jump into 'bed 'with another woman even before my coffin
is cold... even in the animal kingdom, there is a 'mourning'
period... we women like our men tto be 'loyal.' at least sleep with
the 'memories' for sometime before making another commmitment - that
is why the character of lord rama is so 'appealin' -the one woman
man! (eka-pani vrata)

but in all fairness, i luved your statement

"the point of her yoga was not renunciation of all desire , but
attainment of her desire for Shiva."

i luv this very well put.

in her next incarnation, parvati knew who shiva was but shiva did not
know parvati was 'sati' - so when shiva tried to dissuade parvati
from posing as a brahmachari and asked parvati not to marry
shiva 'who was just an ascetic, a beggar who did not know where his
next meal came from' - parvati stood on firm ground and said 'in
birth after bort, i will only marry shiva' - such was her 'love.'

like you colin, i love stories -all kinds of stories. in fact, that
is the beauty of hinduism - that is why it is fascinating... there
are stories to illustrate all kinds of 'truths'....

colin, you never disappoint us- rather, we look forward eagerly to
your input--- in fact, i am missing my other friend, gene ! where is
he?

thank you so much once more for all the 'energy' !!!

******please see photo album for a picture describing the amorous
love scene of parvati and parameshwara -where lord shiva is
decorating the braid of parvati by placing a flower on it... "
reminds me of the 'madurya bhava' of radha and krishna! enjoy the
imagery!!! i am sure our beloved devi_bhakta would love this painting
fot its aesthetic beauty -


p.s. we cannot wait for devi_bhakta to join us... it is gettin a
bit 'lonely' here without him ...

sorry, for my ramblings...

love and more love




..