USA TODAY (February 16, 2006): Throw another ingredient in the
American spirituality blender.

Pop culture is veering into Hinduism — sort of. Call it a Hindu-esque
sampling of the flavor, images and style of a 6,000-year-old faith -
but with no actual theology involved.

"This is how the culture manages everything," says Luis Gonzalez-
Reimann, who teaches Southeast Asian studies and religious studies at
the University of California-Berkeley. "Remember [the TV
show] 'Dharma & Greg'?"

That 1997 sitcom featured a free-spirited gal, named Dharma by her
hippie parents. Forget the Hindu idea of dharma as a way of living
that leads to spiritual advancement. It just sounded flip.

The latest sign of infatuation with the Hindu-esque is NBC's new
Thursday night hit, "My Name Is Earl". It starts with a mangled take
on the concept of karma as the low-life main character tries to
reverse a lifetime of scamming and stealing by undoing a life-list of
misdeeds. [See SIDEBAR below]

That's a slick, quick notion of karma, rather than a true reflection
of the Hindu idea of action and reaction as the "neutral, self-
perpetuating law of the inner cosmos," says Hindu monk Sannyasin
Arumugaswami, editor of Hinduism Today magazine.

Then there's Alicia Keys warbling in her song 'Karma', "It's called
karma, baby. And it goes around. What goes around comes around. What
goes up must come down."

But "that isn't karma," gripes Shoba Narayan, Hindu columnist for the
spirituality website Beliefnet.com. "That is Newton's Law of
Physics."

Watch for reincarnation Hindu-esque style if an Ashton Kutcher-
produced sitcom lands on TV in the fall. "For Pete's Sake" is
actually an interfaith goof: St. Peter plays bouncer at the Pearly
Gates, sending five main characters off to rebirth instead of hell,
garbling both Christian and Hindu theology.

After all, there's no law that TV or movies must teach correct
doctrine, says Dick Staub, a writer on faith and culture for
Christianity Today online.

Yoga, the 5,000-year-old Hindu physical and meditative discipline, is
everywhere now. Yoga Journal says 31% of Americans who have tried it
say they're seeking "spiritual development."

But authentic Hindu yoga schooling is outnumbered by variations more
focused on six-pack abs or non-denominational inner serenity. One
entrepreneur hits every trend button with DVDs teaching Kabbalah
Yoga, borrowing very loosely from Jewish mysticism.

Celebrities long have had an affinity for mystical mishmash. Shirley
MacLaine, joking about her many lives, is no longer news.

Kutcher, who once sported a "Jesus Is My Homeboy" T-shirt, wed Demi
Moore in a Kabbalah-esque ceremony before veering toward the Hindu-
esque. And Britney Spears brought her 4-month-old son to be blessed
at a Hindu temple in Malibu, Calif., last month.

No one begrudges a blessing.

"Hinduism is a complicated and beautiful religion, but much more
complicated to adopt as a lifestyle, particularly in our short-cut
culture," says California author Mark Hawthorne, who writes about
hidden Hindu elements in popular culture for Hinduism Today magazine.

But believers object when riffs plunder serious spiritual teachings
or venerable images.

Hindu groups' complaints led to cutting Sanskrit chanting from an
orgy scene in the 1999 film "Eyes Wide Shut". The American Hindu Anti-
Defamation Coalition protested a Chicago strip club that put Hindu
deity masks on its dancers, fashion retailers who slapped god and
goddess images on underwear and the soles of shoes, and the portrayal
of Hare Krishnas as a gang forcing conversions in the video game
Grand Theft Auto 2.

It's not easy for Americans to recognize when a slight glance crosses
over to an offensive slap. Americans' exposure to expressions of
Hinduism largely is limited to travelogues of India, Bollywood song-
and-dance movies and the Fox TV cartoon antics of Apu
Nahasapeemapetilon, the Indian Kwik-E-Mart clerk on "The Simpsons".

Hinduism, followed by 930 million people worldwide, 98% in India,
actually is a 19th-century term for a spectrum of ancient teachings,
just as Christianity covers denominations as varied as Catholics,
Baptists and Jehovah's Witnesses.

As Christians are unified by the centrality of Christ, so Hindus,
divided among thousands of sects and sub-sects, are unified by "one,
all-pervasive supreme God, though he or she may be worshiped in many
forms," says Suhag Shukla.

Shukla is the author of a fact sheet on the faith for the Hindu
American Foundation, a U.S.-based human rights group that defends and
explains Hinduism for an estimated 2 million Hindus in the USA.

The foundation finds mass media often present Hindus as polytheistic
(not) and idol worshipers (not) and confuses religious teachings with
controversial social practices such as providing a dowry.

"The truth is one. The wise call it by many names," she says, quoting
the Vedas, the 6,000-year-old texts that form the basis of the faith.

So what else is new? Hollywood has been mocking Christian culture for
years. Recent examples:

• NBC's The Book of Daniel, starring a pill-popping Episcopal priest
and his family of prolific sinners, already has flopped off the
schedule.

• An NBC press release says an upcoming "Will & Grace" episode would
include a Christian cooking show called Cruci-fixin's. Two days after
the Christian conservative American Family Association blasted NBC,
the network said the release was mistaken and the script will contain
no such thing.

It could be argued that exposing the West to Hindu ideas and images —
short of blasphemy — can't be all bad if it provokes further study.

"Theology is understood by scriptwriters as an a la carte menu of
ideas," says Staub. "Blenderism accepts the relativity of truth.
There's no requirement to assert any one thing is right or wrong. Put
it in the blender, and there you go."

Never underestimate our ability to ignore theological distinctions,
says Jana Riess, religion book review editor for Publishers Weekly
and author of 'What Would Buffy Do? The Vampire Slayer as Spiritual
Guide.'

"Whatever we appropriate from Hinduism is fairly superficial, and
television crystallizes this for dramatic effect," she says. "Hindu
ideas evolved over thousands of lifetimes. We don't have the patience
for this."

SIDEBAR: A WESTERN TAKE ON HINDUISM

"My Name Is Earl" features Earl's misadventures as he tries to undo a
list of 200-plus misdeeds and bank the benefits. Karma à la
Earl: "Whether picking up trash, returning stolen merchandise or
helping a homosexual find love, it always has the same reward:
feeling good about yourself."

But the point of Hinduism isn't present-day happiness. "You don't
work for the fruits of your labor; you do your best for the sake of
your spiritual duty to do the best," says Suhag Shukla of the Hindu
American Foundation.

"For Pete's Sake", Ashton Kutcher's sitcom-in-the-works, plays on
reincarnation. It's named for St. Peter, but when characters die,
they get to try life over again.

"The message is, when you're down here, you're here to learn a
lesson. And if you don't get it right, they keep sending you back
until hopefully you do," Kutcher's co-producer Jason Goldberg told
Daily Variety.

Reincarnation is a core belief in Hinduism, says Mark Hawthorne, who
writes for Hinduism Today, but the ultimate aim is for the soul to
transcend its individuality and reunite with the one God.

Yoga's mind-body workout has attracted at least 16.5 million
Americans, says Yoga Journal. And, the magazine assures readers, it's
not necessary to study or follow a Hindu or Buddhist path to practice.

However, authentic Hindu yoga is a 5,000-year-old
discipline "designed to change your consciousness," says Hawthorne.
Yoga's meditative chanting is believed to carry spiritual vibrations
that bring one close to God.

SOURCE: USA TODAY
URL: http://www.usatoday.com/life/2006-02...ndu-lite_x.htm

Had their forefathers imbibed the sensitivity of the original inhabitants of
those lands, there would be no need for the chop-chop of the blender !


Devi Bhakta <devi_bhakta@...> wrote: USA TODAY (February 16, 2006):
Throw another ingredient in the
American spirituality blender.

Pop culture is veering into Hinduism � sort of. Call it a Hindu-esque
sampling of the flavor, images and style of a 6,000-year-old faith -
but with no actual theology involved.

"This is how the culture manages everything," says Luis Gonzalez-
Reimann, who teaches Southeast Asian studies and religious studies at
the University of California-Berkeley. "Remember [the TV
show] 'Dharma & Greg'?"

<part of this message removed>

Dear red;
I do have something to share about this trend. This is all my own
experience and opinion; and I wouldn't even share it unless I knew that I was
helped spiritually because of seeing what I believe is the truth about this
thing.

I am a Native American/american that believes in Veda and Devi. I also,
since I am Sri Vidyan, don't see any problem for respecting or even practicing
different faiths that are consonant with my love for Mother.

About Dharma and Greg:
I have practicing Sri Vidya and yoga for about 17 years. I have been a
yoga instructor for 14. I have seen many of the Gurus that have come to the USA
and their devotees, and I usually see the same type of problems for all.

Most of the people are ignorant of any of the practices of sanatana
dharma, the traditions, the Gods and Goddesses, the Vedas, the Purananas, the
Aghyamas, even the Bhajans. If they know rudimentary sanskrit, they feel like
they are experts and get a big ego.

It has just been in the past two years that the biggest Guru in the West,
whose name I will not mention, has even taught the people about simple pujas.

I remember asking one of her Swamis once about a picture of a God in the
Ashram, asking if it was Dattatreya. The Swami said to me something to the
affect that it wasn't important, because "we worship the self". He wouldn't even
tell me the name of the God--if he even knew.

Few of the gurus teach the people about god/dess. They teach people about
"the self" and meditation, before the people can even love God/dess and their
fellow man. It results, I think in spacing out, spiritual experiences that may
be manipulated by unseen forces or mass hysteria, lots of costly "feel good"
workshops, and little substance.

Many of these very beautiful devotees have been practicing yoga and
meditation for years, reading and trying to acquire knowledge, but it is empty.
It is empty because it is more about being special, spiritual experiences, and
being spiritually gifted than it is about Bhakti.

This is the trend in all the new age religion in USA.

This trend is a horrific mess where something which is supposed to be
beautiful has become a big ego trip.

As it says in the Gita, those who work to acquire knowledge first before
bhakti will fail miserably in their aim.

I know this personally, because I have been among those like this.

Yoga teachers in the USA are, I believe largely responsible; as are Gurus
who have no time to teach people who love them.

Hatha yoga and meditation was never meant for materialistic people who
cannot follow or who are completely ignorant of what the Yamas and Niyamas are.
This may seem like a given to a born hindu, but not here. I know four people who
teach yoga in this town. All of them do not seem to know what the yamas and
niyamas are--nor do they seem to really care.

I myself would not know anything about these things, except that I lucky
enough to be taught by a Sankaracharya swami with the blessings of Sringeri
Mutt.

However, this makes me all the more responsible for committing a grave
error and confusing my students.

I was teaching people yoga for money; when almost all my students were not
even willing to consider being a vegetarian, let alone attempt to follow the
yamas and niyamas to the best of their ability. I guess I told myself I could
change them through yoga.

I thank my Guruji for advising me to stop teaching people for money or I
would be right in the thick of all this ignorance and karma.

If people don't want to learn about God/dess, pujas, the Gita, karma yoga
and bhakti, they don't come to me. (They get bored with my classes, I guess!)

Now I feel that US people usually need Karma yoga and training in how to
acquire love for their deity. Not more ego driven knowledge. A little hatha yoga
is ok if they do this; and try to follow the yamas and niyamas.

Given all my self criticism and criticism of non-born hindus here; I ask
all of you--how many of you would give up all your free time and thousands of
dollars every year to even try to learn more about sanatana dharma? Many people
in the USA have to give up large sums of money, friends, family, spouses, jobs
and community respect to even attempt to practice this life. It is a difficult
choice for them, difficult to learn and no one here respects them for it; and
many hindus in India don't either.

Mother is there in our spirits but we do not have the teachers. Thank
goodness for people like Amritananda Natha Saraswati and the late Jagadguru of
Sringeri who cared enough about us here to teach, and send and train teachers.
Not to convert--to help people who love Mother.

I have a little Peetham to Sri Kamakshi here, and I try to teach FOR FREE
what I know so that yoga students can go on to find someone like Guruji, who can
help them.

If their are any experienced Sri Vidyans or Yogis that are interested in
helping with this problem somehow, email me to talk.

love in HER,
Samatmika

> Hatha yoga and meditation was never meant for materialistic people
>who cannot follow or who are completely ignorant of what the Yamas and
>Niyamas are. This may seem like a given to a born hindu, but not here. I
>know four people who teach yoga in this town. All of them do not seem to
>know what the yamas and niyamas are--nor do they seem to really care.
>
> I myself would not know anything about these things, except that I
>lucky enough to be taught by a Sankaracharya swami with the blessings of
>Sringeri Mutt.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
------------------------------------------------------->Hi,

Thanks for your wonderful mail. The work that you are dedicating is truly
divine and may goddess bless you.

I am also a yoga student. Yamas and Niyamas is nothing but battle between
conscious and subconscious mind. There are many who has an inborn art or
have learnt to deal with external and inner world and can lead a tranquil
life even when life throws challanges at them. But, some are unable to and
they constantly swing between the two and look for an answer elsewhere..
In the process they might turn to some self help group or spiritualism
etc.. There is nothing wrong in it . All this will teach them to look within
themselves and identify thieir cause and come to terms - or put it this way
teach them to handle diplomatically.(mainly self -Help guru's)
..
There are yogic asana's related to spiritual enlightenment but it also helps
to keep us healthy. Yoga helps definately. Asanas like SARVANAGA ASANA,
HALA ASANA ETC. if done properly do help to curtail impulsive reactions. It
really works on Yama's and Niyamas

May be shankaracharya has one teaching for you - i have had seen him
initiating to those disciplie who may have wealth yoga - without taking into
account their moral character in society. and they have prospered. Inturn,
huge donation goes to that ashram. So, for him to say, yoga should not be
taught for money is not correct. This is my opinion.

I donot want to stir up any contraversy - i personally donot enjoy hitting
someone intentionally and i donot like tobe hit either.

This is only experience shared and witnessed. All spiritual leader's who
has instituation to support. first they worship goddess Laxmi. She is very
important goddess, she helps to execute thought and ideas through the
medium of money. This is fundamental principle. I donot see anything wrong
in it.

When these people who use their celebrity status to address a cause - i
donot see it as an issue. All guru's are mortal they have their weakness -
For eg Deepak chopra famous doctor who deals with alternative medicine was a
student of Maharshi Mahesh Yogi. But, as they progresed - student- teacher
relationship started deteriorating.. They went seaparte ways. But, the
foundation deepak chopra got is from Maharishi - who initiates 50 t0 100 at
times of money.(normally it is said mantras should not be given for money)
Many have gained but some question him. I have seen his followers in west.
Who am I to question them. They worship him as an incarnation of god.

My saying is what is right or wrong is a subjective matter. Maybe you as a
teacher might benefit by helping other's without money.

I am not a teacher nor I go to any schools but I practice what is being
taught.= it helps my joint pain. raji.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
--------------------------------------------------------------

>
> > Few of the gurus teach the people about god/dess. They teach
>people about "the self" and meditation, before the people can even love
>God/dess and their fellow man. It results, I think in spacing out,
>spiritual experiences that may be manipulated by unseen forces or mass
>hysteria, lots of costly "feel good" workshops, and little substance.

I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU.
================================================== ===========>>
.
>
> I was teaching people yoga for money; when almost all my students
>were not even willing to consider being a vegetarian, let alone attempt to
>follow the yamas and niyamas to the best of their ability. I guess I told
>myself I could change them through yoga.



The reason why Yoga emphasis on Vegetarin is that : AS SAYING GOES YOU ARE
WHAT YOU EAT.
iT is said that animal has only one goal that is to live and reproduce = so,
by eating animal products our animal instinct to produce inother words
sexual desire will increase = Kundalini Yoga focuses on diverting that
energy upward. Hence, they suggest satwik inotherwords organic food.

Dearest Samatmika,

The Silver Jublee celebrations of The Art of Living Sudarshan Kriya by Shri Shri
Ravi Shankar are being telecast live as I write this.

Shri Dattatreya is recognised by the four dogs at his feet which represent the
four Vedas.

I did/do get pretty angry (stems from fear, loss of control) when I read about
how Native Americans were short-changed by the white-man. And Hollywood kept
churning out cowboy-Indian movies till quite recently. According to Svoboda,
the white-man is an 'asura', closest equivalent in English is 'demon' though
this would be too harsh and not entirely accurate.

Asuras represent Tamas, however unlike Tamas which one could broadly define as
lazy, the Asuras are just the opposite. It is a paradox that Man who is
muscular and tough is not Shakti, Woman who is gentle and physically weaker
represents this tremendous force, and She in her gentleness is surprisingly not
the Observer/Consciousness; Man is. The external stillness of meditation hiding
the tremendous activity/insight happening within.

So the whiteman creates unfair trade practices, bullying , weapons of mass
destruction, pornography, racial inequality, stealing through force (all the
wealth and lands they enjoy have been snatched from non-white races, and they
now stand by laws to protect their stolen wealth, which they would not have had
had they followed their own laws - savvy), global warming, polloution (I was
shocked to see the way plastic bags were used/available during my 6 month stay
in London). Well what better can one expect from an asura ! Like me, I am
sure many of us have wonderful asura friends. Paradox ?!

And there is the flip-side, the good asura part. Medical advancements, advance
in science and technology, common laws across nations, charitable work across
the globe, improved lifestyles - TV, blenders, airrconditining, eco awareness
and preservation, and so many marvellous things that are being done by the
asura. This common language of English.

As Osho quite aptly put it, and what Arjuna had on the battlefield of
Kurukshetra until Krishna revealed his divine form; is 'key-hole' vision. We
see the complete picture once we come out from behind the key-hole and open the
door. We know when we step-out ;-)

The new generation of asuras (by the way I am partially English and Portuguese
and more Indian - so allow me to indulge in some self-bashing on both sides of
the fence :-p ) are now going back to those peoples their ancestors ravaged
materially, to ravage some more spiritually :-p They desire a 'fix', a
quick-fix, hence the blender; a definative American/asura kitchen device. Is it
so strange, a blender for the body and another for the soul ?

We each get taught, receive and give as per our station. Everything is perfect.
So let there be these many types of Gurus and blenders, in India I am told we
have 330 million Gods and Goddesses (by golly !) , I guess it would not be so,
had it not meant to be so.

How can I speak authoratively when I sit behind my keyhole ? I can only express
opinions based on very very limited perception.

Why creation if not to experience the infinity of it. The pervasive dance of
Sat - Chit - Ananda ! This is one thing I am sure about, and my one prayer is

asato ma sat gamaya
tamaso ma jyotir gamaya
mrytor ma amritam gamaya

In reverence,

Red

I guess I have a very basic understanding of the yamas and
niyamas and am not where you are yet: like ahimsa - DON'T HARM OTHER
BEINGS. (HELP THEM.) Basic morality.

I had to examine my actions of teaching people yoga for money in
light of this and an important reality:

The majority of students do not think that even the basic morality of
spirituality that is taught in the Yamas and Niyamas is a code to live by.
Patangali states this is necessary for any student of yoga. (It is like not
following the shastras, and attempting to become a priest.) Very dangerous.

I chose to teach people that I knew were not really interested in any spiritual
practice but were looking for, as the singer-star Madonna says," Yoga makes my
butt look better," or for experimentation with spirituality AND "making their
butt look better", the very powerful practices of hatha yoga and mantra yoga.

I did so hoping to teach them some of the love I have for these things, and to
help them discover their own spiritual path, or become interested in it. I also
taught them because I wanted money, and spiritual status in their and in my own
eyes.

Of all the students I have had, only one has taken mantra diksha with a Guru. I
have taught close to 1000 students.

What has happened to all the rest? Do they love God/dess and other human beings
more? Or are they in the great numbers of people that are reading Yoga Journal
and are being taught even more powerful things to get even more ego and karma
with ("You don't have to be a Buddhist or Hindu to learn these things.."

This is the karma that I have created for myself.

Now... how did my Guruji help me? Do not teach for money, he said. I did what my
guru asked...now I have one student. If you do teaching for free in USA no one
will come! (A good teacher in the USA is one that charges a lot of money for
workshops or classes and advertises in Yoga Journal.)

It is really very funny, I guess. Well, hopefully many mantras, pujas and
prayers for my former students will help diminish some of the stupid things I
have done. I guess Mother is using her goad and noose on me ...

Samatmika

--- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "rajeshwari iyer"
<rajii31@...> wrote:
>
>
> > Hatha yoga and meditation was never meant for
materialistic people
> >who cannot follow or who are completely ignorant of what the
Yamas and
> >Niyamas are. This may seem like a given to a born hindu, but not
here. I
> >know four people who teach yoga in this town. All of them do not
seem to
> >know what the yamas and niyamas are--nor do they seem to really
care.
> >
> > I myself would not know anything about these things,
except that I
> >lucky enough to be taught by a Sankaracharya swami with the
blessings of
> >Sringeri Mutt.

My dearest Samatmika,

I find this too, lip-service. Spirituality is not a popularity contest. In
India the most fun-loving popular guy has been our Krishna, and how many liked
him even then ? Christ, Mohammad, Buddha, Mahavir, so many past and present day
Gurus, all criticised by so many. In schools and colleges Teachers are
'tolerated', so to Bosses in offices. God is abused and cursed. I think mst
people live with the inadequacies by pointing at others; case in point being
advice parents give their kids - like, if you don't like your food eat it, think
f the starving in Africa wo have nothing. Among a Tamil descent group from
Singapore who visited Kerala through the travel agency I worked for, was a
gentleman who shared with me the pearl of wisdom of why he brought his kids to
India; to see how much better off they are in Singapore ! According to National
Geographic Traveller, Kerala is one of the 50 must see places in the world, it
is so beautiful. Remember Enter the Dragon, Bruce Lee
instructing his young pupil not to look at his finger else he would miss all
the heavenly beauty his finger was pointing too !

I remember watching on tv, a Robin Hood serial many years ago. Robin was deep
in the forest speaking with his 'God', the Forest God Hearn. He told Hearn
that he was fed-up and tired fighting the evil Sheriff of Nottingham, because
the Sheriff was much more powerful and nothing Robin did seemed to make a
difference. Hearn told me something to the effect that "It is not important
that your arrow hit the target, what is important is that you aimed and shot."
This has made tremendous sense to me and been my strenght the many many times
I fall.

With love,

Red

--- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, sue mcniel
<samatmikadevi@...> wrote:
[....]
It has just been in the past two years that the biggest Guru
in the West,
[....] has even taught the people about simple pujas.

[....]
Few of the gurus teach the people about god/dess. They
teach people about "the self" and meditation, [....] It
results, I think in spacing out, [...] lots of costly "feel
good" workshops, and little substance.

[....] This is the trend in all the new age religion in USA.
[end quote]

Hi Samatmika (and all),

Actually, this particular adaptation/simplification of
teachings pre-dates the New Age movement by decades.
As indicated by the following quotes, the adaptation can be
read as a sensitive and perceptive adaptation by the gurus to
the Western students they encountered.

The following quotes come from
_The Graceful Guru: Hindu Female Gurus in India and the
United States_
Karen Pechilis, ed. (pgs. 194-195; "Shree Maa of
Kamakkhya", by Lorilai Biernacki )

[begin quote]
The majority of Hindu guru groups in the United States do
not emphasize puja; often they even actively avoid it, or
else they reserve it for the later teachings for seasoned
members. The Transcendental Meditation movement is a
good illustration, though by no means the only one. In the
more common presentation to Westerners, these groups
offer a teaching presented in scientific terms. Notions of
"religion" are eschewed in favor of "technique." Yoga is
presented as a science [....]

[....] Hinduism first arrived in America with
Vivekananda's celebrated success at the Parliament of
World Religions in 1893. With this he left a legacy that
was to influence man of the gurus who came to the West in
his wake. [....] [H]e stressed the rational, the scientific, and
saw Advaita Vendanta as in perfect attunement with the
notions of science. [....] For Vivekananda, the appeal of
Hinduism for the West lay in its capacity to include all
other faiths. [....] [T]his transcendence of the particular
made it eminently alignable with what was currently the
best of the West, or in any case, its predominantl and
exciting alternative to religious beliefs, that is, science.
[....]

Historically, then, Vivekananda's Advaita Vendanta could
transcend the messiness of the particular, could present
itself as an objective science, and at the same time avoid
upsetting the sensibilities of a Western populace with a
predominantly Protestant background opposed to idolatry.
He left a legacy that has set the tone for most of the gurus
who succeeded him; the Hinduism they bring is a technique
for altering consciousness, applicable to any religious belief
system. [....]

This consonance between the scientific rationality of a
metareligious Vedanta and a Western world disenchanted
with the apparently deleterious effects of opiate religion set
the tone for much Hindu missionizing in the West through
the twentieth century. At least in part, the success of the
missionizing had to do precisely with the excision of
multiple deities, with their multiple heads a, the exclusion
of the seeming idolatry of offering food and lights, incense,
and so on to [seemingly] inert statues. [....]

[end quote]

I think those (historical) gurus were justified in presenting
Hinduism as they did, but I am not sure the "sanitization"
of Hinduism is all that necessary these days. The scientific
presentation still holds its appeal, and it seems a good fit
for some schools (check out the Shakti Sadhana splash
page!). But I'm not so sure it's still necessary for Hindu
groups in the West to delete puja and deity images from
their practices. Things have changed. Interestingly, the
popular guru Samatmika refers to appears to have picked
up on the shift, as he's apparently now teaching puja.

I think the New Age movement may be largely responsible
for the change (dare we say anything positive about the
New Agers?) A guru coming to the West these days will
very likely encounter New Agers and Neopagans who have
been happily decorating their home altars with all sorts of
doodads from the New Age store, including images and
statues of various deity forms. While there are still stylistic
differences about the artistic presentation of images, I don't
think there's as much a need to tiptoe around Western
sensibilities with regards to deity images and offerings.

The thought of puja kits showing up in New Age shops
makes me cringe a bit, but perhaps the positive side could
be a fuller, richer, expression of Hinduism in the West.

Really good points. It made me look at it in a new way--but I have to
think--would it be a good thing to teach Christian techniques in prayer with no
worship of god? I guess in India perhaps people put their own deity into
different techniques quite easily, I guess there is a historical tradition for
that and is inherent in Hinduism. Perhaps Hindus also do not see that having a
different deity is wrong. I don't think that this is the case of the majority of
USAers who are raised somewhat Christian. "Jesus is the only God and everyone
else will go to h---.". That is the teaching. There is a huge amount of
subconscious fear from this that most people have to work through to become
involved in even secular meditation.
Also, those that are questioning their own tradition and are looking
elswhere here are likely already having a basic problem in a relationship with
God/dess in their own tradition, and are trying to solve it through technique,
instead of faith and love of the deity. I realise that there are exceptions to
this, like Thomas Merton was in the 1970's--he was interested in Buddhism, I
think purely on a level of technique.
I know quite a few Neo-pagans and I am not sure that they use images in any
different way than people who have statutes of the Sacred Heart of Jesus and
Mary, who are Christians, do. My experience is that they tend to believe that
there is no inherent power in their statues--not like an idol of Devi, which has
a pranapratistha-- and use the images in a conceptual or symbolic way in
ceremony or as reminders to create an atmosphere.
I really enjoyed your comments. It really points out to me that the
perspective of a person born into Hindusim can be quite different from someone
like me.

Samatmika

msbauju <msbauju@...> wrote:
--- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, sue mcniel
<samatmikadevi@...> wrote:
[....]
It has just been in the past two years that the biggest Guru
in the West,
[....] has even taught the people about simple pujas.

[....]
Few of the gurus teach the people about god/dess. They
teach people about "the self" and meditation, [....] It
results, I think in spacing out, [...] lots of costly "feel
good" workshops, and little substance.

[....] This is the trend in all the new age religion in USA.
[end quote]

Hi Samatmika (and all),

Actually, this particular adaptation/simplification of
teachings pre-dates the New Age movement by decades.
As indicated by the following quotes, the adaptation can be
read as a sensitive and perceptive adaptation by the gurus to
the Western students they encountered.

The following quotes come from
_The Graceful Guru: Hindu Female Gurus in India and the
United States_
Karen Pechilis, ed. (pgs. 194-195; "Shree Maa of
Kamakkhya", by Lorilai Biernacki )

[begin quote]
The majority of Hindu guru groups in the United States do
not emphasize puja; often they even actively avoid it, or
else they reserve it for the later teachings for seasoned
members. The Transcendental Meditation movement is a
good illustration, though by no means the only one. In the
more common presentation to Westerners, these groups
offer a teaching presented in scientific terms. Notions of
"religion" are eschewed in favor of "technique." Yoga is
presented as a science [....]

[....] Hinduism first arrived in America with
Vivekananda's celebrated success at the Parliament of
World Religions in 1893. With this he left a legacy that
was to influence man of the gurus who came to the West in
his wake. [....] [H]e stressed the rational, the scientific, and
saw Advaita Vendanta as in perfect attunement with the
notions of science. [....] For Vivekananda, the appeal of
Hinduism for the West lay in its capacity to include all
other faiths. [....] [T]his transcendence of the particular
made it eminently alignable with what was currently the
best of the West, or in any case, its predominantl and
exciting alternative to religious beliefs, that is, science.
[....]

Historically, then, Vivekananda's Advaita Vendanta could
transcend the messiness of the particular, could present
itself as an objective science, and at the same time avoid
upsetting the sensibilities of a Western populace with a
predominantly Protestant background opposed to idolatry.
He left a legacy that has set the tone for most of the gurus
who succeeded him; the Hinduism they bring is a technique
for altering consciousness, applicable to any religious belief
system. [....]

This consonance between the scientific rationality of a
metareligious Vedanta and a Western world disenchanted
with the apparently deleterious effects of opiate religion set
the tone for much Hindu missionizing in the West through
the twentieth century. At least in part, the success of the
missionizing had to do precisely with the excision of
multiple deities, with their multiple heads a, the exclusion
of the seeming idolatry of offering food and lights, incense,
and so on to [seemingly] inert statues. [....]

[end quote]

I think those (historical) gurus were justified in presenting
Hinduism as they did, but I am not sure the "sanitization"
of Hinduism is all that necessary these days. The scientific
presentation still holds its appeal, and it seems a good fit
for some schools (check out the Shakti Sadhana splash
page!). But I'm not so sure it's still necessary for Hindu
groups in the West to delete puja and deity images from
their practices. Things have changed. Interestingly, the
popular guru Samatmika refers to appears to have picked
up on the shift, as he's apparently now teaching puja.

I think the New Age movement may be largely responsible
for the change (dare we say anything positive about the
New Agers?) A guru coming to the West these days will
very likely encounter New Agers and Neopagans who have
been happily decorating their home altars with all sorts of
doodads from the New Age store, including images and
statues of various deity forms. While there are still stylistic
differences about the artistic presentation of images, I don't
think there's as much a need to tiptoe around Western
sensibilities with regards to deity images and offerings.

The thought of puja kits showing up in New Age shops
makes me cringe a bit, but perhaps the positive side could
be a fuller, richer, expression of Hinduism in the West.










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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Msbauju:

*** The scientific presentation still holds its appeal, and it seems
a good fit for some schools (check out the Shakti Sadhana splash
page!). But I'm not so sure it's still necessary for Hindu groups in
the West to delete puja and deity images from their practices. Things
have changed. ***

Interesting! But i don't think it's an either/or proposition. I do
feel that shakti sadhana has amazing parallels in modern physics -- I
try to keep up, at least in the popular journals, with advances in
quantum mechanics as well as the new brain-numbingly long-distance
radioastronomy ... to me, the seamless way in which everything seems
to "snap together" is a source of both awe and inspiration.

But at the end of the day, plain old-fashioned puja -- yes,
traditional Hindu puja using "deity images" -- is the core of my
practice.

The supposed "rationality" of science is not, in my view, an
alternative to the supposed "irrationality" of colorful, multi-limbed
deities. They are complementary. Perhaps one could consider them
as "left brain" and "right brain" poles of a single idea.

*** A guru coming to the West these days will very likely encounter
New Agers and Neopagans who have been happily decorating their home
altars with all sorts of doodads from the New Age store, including
images and statues of various deity forms. While there are still
stylistic differences about the artistic presentation of images, I
don't think there's as much a need to tiptoe around Western
sensibilities with regards to deity images and offerings. ***

The trick in these cases will be to expand the deities beyond doodad
status and into living instruments for puja. I have an acquaintance
in Boston -- a 50-something MIT grad with one helluva brain in his
head, as well as the obligatory "wandering thru India" phase as a 20-
something, and the neat, consumer-driven Buddhist practice today
(fashionable prayer room right out of Crate & Barrel catalog *lol*.
He could talk physics and astronomy parallels with Eastern
sprituality for hours on end, wide-eyed and as enthusiastic as a kid.
But mention deities, or any hint of the mystery and grace beyond the
bleeding-edge science, and he'd shut down and get all superior-smirky
with me. If I pressed on about puja and mantra and all that, you
could almost see him struggling to restrain himself from throttling
me. *lol*

What do I know? But to me, it seemed very self-protective. It is
edifying in the extreme to realize how far rational inquiry will take
you into very deep spiritual waters. But at a certain point, you have
to let go of that floatation device and do the hard work of letting
faith carry you -- the japa, and puja and deities and gurus who'll
take you even into still deeper waters. What many people fail to
realize, tho, is that, at a certain point, you must let go of these
props too. First the "rational" props go, then the "irrational
props" -- and then there is just you, out in the deepest waters,
where no one can help you except you. And that's when you begin to
realize just what "you" actually means.

I don't know. The subject of pujas for the West is so dicey. What
makes me cringe is the mix-n-match nature of the New Age devotees you
mention. I tend to think that a qualified exponent (dare I say guru?)
of a true lineage can adjust and simplify puja for a different time
and place and audience. But the impression I get is of a lot of
people adjust and simplifying it themselves -- changing the images to
something more familiar, cutting corners on the complexities of puja,
approximating mantra pronunciation, tossing in bits and pieces from
other traditions ... achieving just the right design effect for their
personality and decor -- but effectively short-circuiting the process
itself into mere form without appreciable substance.

Because science isn't just a way to "sell" Tantric technique to the
West. It IS Tantra -- Tantra IS science, a methodology, that is
applied -- by qualified spiritual masters -- to a given religious
system ... be the focus Shakta, Shaiva, Vaishnava, Buddhist -- or
what have you. But the methodology cannot (in my opinion) be
wholesale grafted onto "any religion." Because, as I noted in the
beginning of this post, there is a necessary complementary nature in
the interaction of technique and belief, of rationality and
irrationality, of science and spirituality. These dual aspects did
not arise independently of one another and get matched together
later -- they are organically interrelated. When you begin to remove
strands of the tradition (be it the "scentific" side or
the "mystical" side) without taking account of the thing as a whole,
the result is decidedly less than the sum of its parts.

My point, I guess, would be that the "scientific presentation" vs.
the "puja and deity images" presentation it itself a false duality
that takes us further from the truth rather than closer to it.

aim mAtangyai namaH

--- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, sue mcniel
<samatmikadevi@...> wrote:
>
> [....]
> I realise that there are exceptions to this,
> like Thomas Merton was in the 1970's--
> he was interested in Buddhism, I think
> purely on a level of technique.

That was my impression, too--that he was in search of techniques to
enrich Christian meditative practice. BTW, his posthumous _The
Asian Journal_ is really interesting, and covers that portion of his
life.

> I know quite a few Neo-pagans and I am not sure that they use
images in any different way than people who have statutes of the
Sacred Heart of Jesus and Mary, who are Christians, do. My
experience is that they tend to believe that there is no inherent
power in their statues--not like an idol of Devi, which has a
pranapratistha-- and use the images in a conceptual or symbolic way
in ceremony or as reminders to create an atmosphere.

Good point. Neopaganism doesn't have a consistent or necessarily
coherent view of the nature of "deity", given the multiple sources
it draws upon.
An individual Neopagan *could* conceive of the statues as non-inert,
but you're right--a Neopagan is more likely to to see the images as
conceptual or symbolic--it's more consistent with Western culture.

--- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "Devi Bhakta"
<devi_bhakta@...> wrote:
DB> My point, I guess, would be that
the "scientific presentation" vs.
the "puja and deity images" presentation it
itself a false duality
that takes us further from the truth
rather than closer to it.

We are indeed in agreement on that point! Eliminating the "editing
out" of puja shouldn't imply there needs to be a replacement editing
out of technique (or scientific approach.) There isn't a dichotomy
here, or shouldn't be. The whole "science vs. spirituality"
dichotomy seems pretty ingrained in Western culture, but it seems
out of place to me in this context.

I really just wanted to point out that there's a historical and
cultural context (and some very good reasons!) for Western
expressions of Hinduism being so "technique" based. And that I
don't think the big edit is so necessary these days.

DB> What makes me cringe is the
mix-n-match nature of the New Age devotees you
mention. I tend to think that a qualified exponent
(dare I say guru?) of a true lineage can adjust
and simplify puja for a different time
and place and audience. But the impression
I get is of a lot of people adjust and
simplifying it themselves -- changing the images to
something more familiar, cutting corners
on the complexities of puja, approximating
mantra pronunciation, tossing in bits and
pieces from other traditions ... achieving j
ust the right design effect for their
personality and decor -- but effectively
short-circuiting the process itself into
mere form without appreciable substance.

Excellent point. What "qualified exponent" may choose to do in
adjusting or simplifying a puja isn't the same as the syncretic do-
it-yourself approach. Not at all the same thing.

But I think we could come up with a more charitable read of New
Agers… In my experience (or opinion), these are people experiencing
a very genuine spiritual impulse, and (or but) they're trying to
express it in sort of a problematic cultural/spiritual context. "New
Age", at least in its current Western cultural expression, is so
amorphous.... In way, they're all dressed up (or at least their
altars are) with nowhere to go.