Serpent Symbolism in the Mythologies of Andhra Folk Goddesses


Serpent worship and its religious and symbolic significance in India
has been written about extensively by many scholars in the past
since the late 19th century. The source material for these studies
was mostly sculptures and sometimes paintings, the myths of Sanskrit
texts (chiefly those describing the exploits of Vishnu, Krishna and
Siva) and occasional field reports of devotees who worship serpents.
Remarkably, however, these previous studies do not focus on the
intimate relationship that exists between village goddesses and
serpent lore. In my own field work in villages and at goddess
temples in Andhra Pradesh, I noted that understanding this
connection is crucial to ascertaining the socio-religious
significance of the goddess in her cultic context and that the
connection between serpents and village goddesses is perhaps even
more extensive than in relation to male deities.

In this paper I will attempt to answer a series of questions
including: Why do village people visualize their goddesses in
serpent form? That is, what are the perceived affinities between the
powers of the serpent and the powers of the goddess which render the
association so complete? My answers will address issues of gender,
sexuality, fertility and cosmogony. I will determine how specific my
understanding is to Andhra or whether it is also prevalent
throughout other cultural regions of India with the same intensity.
I will also trace out the history of viewing the divine as a serpent
with an eye toward determining early reasons behind it.

Sree Padma, Bowdoin College
Association of South Asian Studies
Abstracts from 1998 AAS Annual Meeting

"Kundala means coiled. The power is the Goddess [Devi] Kundalini or
that which is coiled, for Her form is that of a coiled and sleeping
serpent in the lowest bodily center, at the base of the spinal column,
until by means described She is aroused in that Yoga which is names
after Her. Kundalini is the Divine Cosmic Energy in bodies.

>From The Serpent Power, by Sir John Woodroffe, 1919

See also
: http://www.shaktisadhana.org/Photo%2...muladhara.html

Namaskaar

I tend to agree with this, actually when you view this
in meditation she appears quite annoyed on being
roused from sleep and is black in colour in the base
chakra but when she begins to move upward she appears
as a pleasing white cobra until she transforms into a
stunningly beautiful woman !

Dhanyavaad

Pandit Devindra Maharaj



--- NMadasamy <nmadasamy@...>
wrote:

> "Kundala means coiled. The power is the Goddess
> [Devi] Kundalini or
> that which is coiled, for Her form is that of a
> coiled and sleeping
> serpent in the lowest bodily center, at the base of
> the spinal column,
> until by means described She is aroused in that Yoga
> which is names
> after Her. Kundalini is the Divine Cosmic Energy in
> bodies.
>
> From The Serpent Power, by Sir John Woodroffe, 1919
>
> See also
> :
>
http://www.shaktisadhana.org/Photo%2...muladhara.html
>
>
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Namaste
Snake worship is more prevelent in Parashurama Kshetra,or southren
part of westren Ghat i.e Kerala and Tulunad . Large number of snakes
in the area and the necesity to coexist with them might have led to
snake worship.Snake worship here has some peculiarities which are not
found in other parts of India, Nagamandala puja, Naga bana
(vana),etc.It is said that the practice of keeping Naga stones
originated in this area.
In other parts of India Naga is related to gods through legends .
Like Vasuki and vishnu, Sarpa and shiva,Ganapati and snake(he used it
as belt), Subramanya and Vasuki,Krisha and Kalinga.Even in
mahabaratha Nahusha takes birth as a huge snake.In childhood Bhima is
thrown in to a lake and goes to Nagaloka. There are some amazing
stories.Snakes are notorious for their vegence(in stories and
films!!)
I wonder are there any such stories in Shakta mythology or does they
have any significance in any Tantric rituals.(other than Kundalini
which is quite symbolic).

KHK.Prasad.



--- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "NMadasamy" <nmadasamy@s...>
wrote:
> Serpent Symbolism in the Mythologies of Andhra Folk Goddesses
>
>
> Serpent worship and its religious and symbolic significance in
India
> has been written about extensively by many scholars in the past
> since the late 19th century. The p.source material for these
studies
> was mostly sculptures and sometimes paintings, the myths of
Sanskrit
> texts (chiefly those describing the exploits of Vishnu, Krishna and
> Siva) and occasional field reports of devotees who worship
serpents.
> Remarkably, however, these previous studies do not focus on the
> intimate relationship that exists between village goddesses and
> serpent lore. In my own field work in villages and at goddess
> temples in Andhra Pradesh, I noted that understanding this
> connection is crucial to ascertaining the socio-religious
> significance of the goddess in her cultic context and that the
> connection between serpents and village goddesses is perhaps even
> more extensive than in relation to male deities.
>
> In this paper I will attempt to answer a series of questions
> including: Why do village people visualize their goddesses in
> serpent form? That is, what are the perceived affinities between
the
> powers of the serpent and the powers of the goddess which render
the
> association so complete? My answers will address issues of gender,
> sexuality, fertility and cosmogony. I will determine how specific
my
> understanding is to Andhra or whether it is also prevalent
> throughout other cultural regions of India with the same intensity.
> I will also trace out the history of viewing the divine as a
serpent
> with an eye toward determining early reasons behind it.
>
> Sree Padma, Bowdoin College
> Association of South Asian Studies
> Abstracts from 1998 AAS Annual Meeting

Back in the 80´s i was researching the origins of the natha
sampradaya in nepala. Its founders visit to nepal ist still
commemorated in a ratha yatra dedicated to red matsyendranatha.
excerpt from my paper on the Nathas in Nepala:
"The smaller yearly festival of Ratha jatra,-where the god is carried
with a chariot through the city streets, is dedicated to Red
Matsyendra. This festival connects with a legend of Gorakshanath
keeping the Nagas under control by sitting on them so that no rain
fell for a long time in the valley. The inhabitants then asked
Matsyendra to come to Nepal. Goraksha rose up from his meditation to
greet his Guru, so that the Nagas fled and rain fell again. So Red
Matsyendra is propitiated at the jatra to bring rain." Full text
http://www.shivashakti.com/werner.htm

There are several others Legends which do not mention Gorakshanatha
but only talk about a 12 year draught that was ended by the powers of
Mahayogi Matsyendranatha.

In one Legend Matsyendranath left Assam in the form of a black bee
held in a golden ceremonial Kalasha To this day the Newaris
still avoid killing these insects and priests worship the golden
vessel as the God of Rain and Harvest.
Actually the bee must bee caught to cause the rainfall (The bee being
the mind with the six legs equalling the 6 sense nadis which being
captured held still in the kalasha and connected to the guru chakra
eats the Honey=amritkala=Rainfall) Bandhudatta who propiated
Matsyendranatha later established the murti of red matsyendranatha
and instead of dying vanished into it. (Matsyendrapadyasatakam
written by Nilakantha dated 1677) The Nepali translation mentions
Gorakhnatha binding the Nagas the sanskrit version does not.

The idol is housed in summer in Bungamati wearing a jeweled vest
which is asscociated with the nagas and the rainfall it is held aloft
by the pujari during yatra, another link to the shakta tradition is
that the Patan Kumari has to witness this celebration while the King
is not allowed to watch. This strengthens the bond between the
Matsyendranatha cult and the very important and secret shakta Cult of
taleju devi (ie. Kumari) this cult is very powerful and actually
invests the King ritually with the full spiritual force to reign over
the Valley. (which Valley is considered to form an astapadma)
Again the association of the festival with general fertiltiy can be
seen in the Highlights of the Ratha:
As the chariot crosses the Nakhu river, snakes of all sizes and
colors are to flock around the chariot wheels.
In Lagankhel, a priest throws a coconut from the chariot and the man
who catches it is assured of having a son.
>From Lagankhel to Thati - all one hundred meters - some 300 or 400
single women pull the chariot for about half an hour.

The Naga worship is apparently very old and connected with fertility
and rainfall.
Matsyendranaha being the founder of not only the Natha Sampradaya but
also of the Yogini Kaula and is respected by all Kaulas and original
Shaktas as the adi or original first Guru of the current Yuga because
he rescued the Kaula knowledge that was lost during the deluge
out of the ocean he being in the form of a fish.

There is also interesting oral lore (which shows the connection of
Srividya to natha sampradaya) of the superhuman birth of several
nathas by the union of shiva and Lalita MAhatripurasundari: Vishnu,
in the form of Mohini as an irresistible dancing girl, appeared
before Shiva so that he ejaculated, he held every drop of semen in
his hand and fed it to a fish.
This Fish was offered to the Queen of Assam, She impregnated with
the Sperm gave birth to Natha Gurus (She also was considered to be
the Wife of Matsyendranatha) this serves to show the supernatural
birth of the sons of Matsyendrantha who founded the different
schools of Kaula (according to the Kaula Jnanan Nirnaya)
There is another Legend containing very similiar kaula elements: In
this version Vishnu in the form of Mohini washes Shivas semen of his
hand after he ejaculated into it,and a fish eats it, this fish gives
birth to Matsyendranatha, Vishnu still had some semen stuck to his
hand so he wipes it off in cow dung, out of this Cow dung
Gorakhshanath is born.

Of course there is the Naga Panchami Festival in Nepala but this has
no such apparent connection to Shakta or Kaula Philosophy as far as
i know.

Hope this helps.


--- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "NMadasamy" <nmadasamy@s...>
wrote:
> Serpent Symbolism in the Mythologies of Andhra Folk Goddesses
>
>
> Serpent worship and its religious and symbolic significance in
India
> has been written about extensively by many scholars in the past
> since the late 19th century. The source material for these studies
> was mostly sculptures and sometimes paintings, the myths of
Sanskrit
> texts (chiefly those describing the exploits of Vishnu, Krishna and
> Siva) and occasional field reports of devotees who worship
serpents.
> Remarkably, however, these previous studies do not focus on the
> intimate relationship that exists between village goddesses and
> serpent lore. In my own field work in villages and at goddess
> temples in Andhra Pradesh, I noted that understanding this
> connection is crucial to ascertaining the socio-religious
> significance of the goddess in her cultic context and that the
> connection between serpents and village goddesses is perhaps even
> more extensive than in relation to male deities.
>
> In this paper I will attempt to answer a series of questions
> including: Why do village people visualize their goddesses in
> serpent form? That is, what are the perceived affinities between
the
> powers of the serpent and the powers of the goddess which render
the
> association so complete? My answers will address issues of gender,
> sexuality, fertility and cosmogony. I will determine how specific
my
> understanding is to Andhra or whether it is also prevalent
> throughout other cultural regions of India with the same intensity.
> I will also trace out the history of viewing the divine as a
serpent
> with an eye toward determining early reasons behind it.
>
> Sree Padma, Bowdoin College
> Association of South Asian Studies
> Abstracts from 1998 AAS Annual Meeting

Namaskaar mahahradanathaji

I too am interested in Taleju, I was fortunate to see
a documentary on Navartri Puja in Nepala and wanted to
get more information on this. I am in the process of
rewriting a paper on Navaratri and would greatly
appreciate information on this form of Devi, also if
you have any on Jvalamukhi, Tvarita, Indrakshi,
svapnesvari and Ucchista Chandali - These are forms of
the Goddess where very little information is available
to me. Incidentally I have a copy of the Kaula Gyana
Nirnaya and was in the process of getting the
Vamakesvari matam and Kumari tantras however never
been able to lay hands on it. Any ideas where I may be
able to look.

Dhanyavaad
Pandit Devindra Maharaj

--- mahahradanatha <mahahradanatha@...> wrote:

> Back in the 80´s i was researching the origins of
> the natha
> sampradaya in nepala. Its founders visit to nepal
> ist still
> commemorated in a ratha yatra dedicated to red
> matsyendranatha.
> excerpt from my paper on the Nathas in Nepala:
> "The smaller yearly festival of Ratha jatra,-where
> the god is carried
> with a chariot through the city streets, is
> dedicated to Red
> Matsyendra. This festival connects with a legend of
> Gorakshanath
> keeping the Nagas under control by sitting on them
> so that no rain
> fell for a long time in the valley. The inhabitants
> then asked
> Matsyendra to come to Nepal. Goraksha rose up from
> his meditation to
> greet his Guru, so that the Nagas fled and rain fell
> again. So Red
> Matsyendra is propitiated at the jatra to bring
> rain." Full text
> http://www.shivashakti.com/werner.htm
>

A beautiful website on taleju devi

http://kumari.puellula.com

About the tantras you mention i believe all of them have been in
Print but are out of print now i think, kumari tantra which i have
never heard of before i don´t know if it ever was edited and printed
or if it exists at all.
Jwalamukhi is one of the nitya deities and one of the 51 pitha
goddesses her shrine is in manali area and consist of a natural fire
that exists by itself and cannot be extinguished. Muslim invaders
tried to quench the flames with big iron lids but they exploded in
pieces and the flames ignited again. Twarita is a pivotal nitya also
and a huntress with connection to sabari, like Len said svapnesvari
is a form of Varahi, ucchista chandali is eating all ritual leftovers
also mantra and mudra and prana leftovers. She helps to keep unwanted
energies and stupid people away from her devotees by creating the
illusion that her devotee is ucchista=unclean also, while in fact
this is only divine illusion to protect the knowledge from the
dualists.

--- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, Dev Maharaj <dev_maharaj@y...>
wrote:
> Namaskaar mahahradanathaji
>
> I too am interested in Taleju, I was fortunate to see
> a documentary on Navartri Puja in Nepala and wanted to
> get more information on this. I am in the process of
> rewriting a paper on Navaratri and would greatly
> appreciate information on this form of Devi, also if
> you have any on Jvalamukhi, Tvarita, Indrakshi,
> svapnesvari and Ucchista Chandali - These are forms of
> the Goddess where very little information is available
> to me. Incidentally I have a copy of the Kaula Gyana
> Nirnaya and was in the process of getting the
> Vamakesvari matam and Kumari tantras however never
> been able to lay hands on it. Any ideas where I may be
> able to look.
>
> Dhanyavaad
> Pandit Devindra Maharaj
>
> --- mahahradanatha <mahahradanatha@y...> wrote:
>
> > Back in the 80´s i was researching the origins of
> > the natha
> > sampradaya in nepala. Its founders visit to nepal
> > ist still
> > commemorated in a ratha yatra dedicated to red
> > matsyendranatha.
> > excerpt from my paper on the Nathas in Nepala:
> > "The smaller yearly festival of Ratha jatra,-where
> > the god is carried
> > with a chariot through the city streets, is
> > dedicated to Red
> > Matsyendra. This festival connects with a legend of
> > Gorakshanath
> > keeping the Nagas under control by sitting on them
> > so that no rain
> > fell for a long time in the valley. The inhabitants
> > then asked
> > Matsyendra to come to Nepal. Goraksha rose up from
> > his meditation to
> > greet his Guru, so that the Nagas fled and rain fell
> > again. So Red
> > Matsyendra is propitiated at the jatra to bring
> > rain." Full text
> > http://www.shivashakti.com/werner.htm
> >

--- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "mahahradanatha"
<mahahradanatha@y...> wrote:
A beautiful website on taleju devi

http://kumari.puellula.com

About the tantras you mention i believe all of them have been in
Print but are out of print now i think, kumari tantra which i have
never heard of before i don´t know if it ever was edited and printed
or if it exists at all. Jwalamukhi is one of the nitya deities and
one of the 51 pitha goddesses her shrine is in manali area and
consist of a natural fire that exists by itself and cannot be
extinguished. Muslim invaders tried to quench the flames with big
iron lids but they exploded in pieces and the flames ignited again.
Twarita is a pivotal nitya also and a huntress with connection to
sabari, like Len said svapnesvari is a form of Varahi, ucchista
chandali is eating all ritual leftovers also mantra and mudra and
prana leftovers. She helps to keep unwanted energies and stupid
people away from her devotees by creating the illusion that her
devotee is ucchista=unclean also, while in fact this is only divine
illusion to protect the knowledge from the dualists.




Hahhaa this is good. Thank you mahahradanatha

Mahandranatha wrote : She helps to keep unwanted energies and stupid
people away from her devotees by creating the illusion that her
devotee is ucchista=unclean also, while in fact this is only divine
illusion to protect the knowledge from the dualists.


Yes agreed. Sometimes DEVI will throw in the GEM and purposely make it
look like a fake. Only those who knows to differentiate between the
real and the fake will be able to recognise it. This you cant learn
from the book. It must come from first hand experience and from the
master themselves.

Well, one needs to be careful about this, too. There are a lot of
people out there who think they know it all, and that when others don't
recognize it, it's because everyone else is a dualist, or
unenlightened, or whatever. About keeping unwanted energies away, the
great sage Mick Jagger said it best: "You can't always get what you
want/but if you try sometimes/you just might find/you get what you
need."

--- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "NMadasamy" <nmadasamy@s...>
wrote:
> Mahandranatha wrote : She helps to keep unwanted energies and stupid
> people away from her devotees by creating the illusion that her
> devotee is ucchista=unclean also, while in fact this is only divine
> illusion to protect the knowledge from the dualists.
>
>
> Yes agreed. Sometimes DEVI will throw in the GEM and purposely make
it
> look like a fake. Only those who knows to differentiate between the
> real and the fake will be able to recognise it. This you cant learn
> from the book. It must come from first hand experience and from the
> master themselves.

It is just a function of this devi. Often people mistake the cover
for the content, there can be worthwhile content in a simple cover.
The devi takes that which we throw away and puts it to an use.
This is an internal function representing transformation of that
which is unhealthy to something which is useful and good.

What you are talking about is self righteousness which is the normal
daily state of the average human mind, not a function of ucchista
candali.

The ugly appearance of the Gurus connected to the kaula sampradaya is
legendary.
In fact also Shiva himself often appears in a very ugly outfit, so
ugly that he is not invited to the legendary sacrifice of daksha
which caused problems that eventually led to the death of sati and
the appeareance of the devis body parts in the holy places-like the
tongue in jawalamukhi pith etc.


--- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "Mary Ann"
<buttercookie61@y...> wrote:
> Well, one needs to be careful about this, too. There are a lot of
> people out there who think they know it all, and that when others
don't
> recognize it, it's because everyone else is a dualist, or
> unenlightened, or whatever. About keeping unwanted energies away,
the
> great sage Mick Jagger said it best: "You can't always get what
you
> want/but if you try sometimes/you just might find/you get what you
> need."
>
> --- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "NMadasamy" <nmadasamy@s...>
> wrote:
> > Mahandranatha wrote : She helps to keep unwanted energies and
stupid
> > people away from her devotees by creating the illusion that her
> > devotee is ucchista=unclean also, while in fact this is only
divine
> > illusion to protect the knowledge from the dualists.
> >
> >
> > Yes agreed. Sometimes DEVI will throw in the GEM and purposely
make
> it
> > look like a fake. Only those who knows to differentiate between
the
> > real and the fake will be able to recognise it. This you cant
learn
> > from the book. It must come from first hand experience and from
the
> > master themselves.

Today in the parking garage for my office, the daily quote posted at
the entry says: "Beware as long as you live of judging people by
appearances." -- Jean de la Fontaine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_de_La_Fontaine

But are you saying that Shiva made a mistake in choosing to appear
that way?



--- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "mahahradanatha"
<mahahradanatha@y...> wrote:
> It is just a function of this devi. Often people mistake the cover
> for the content, there can be worthwhile content in a simple cover.
> The devi takes that which we throw away and puts it to an use.
> This is an internal function representing transformation of that
> which is unhealthy to something which is useful and good.
>
> What you are talking about is self righteousness which is the
normal
> daily state of the average human mind, not a function of ucchista
> candali.
>
> The ugly appearance of the Gurus connected to the kaula sampradaya
is
> legendary.
> In fact also Shiva himself often appears in a very ugly outfit, so
> ugly that he is not invited to the legendary sacrifice of daksha
> which caused problems that eventually led to the death of sati and
> the appeareance of the devis body parts in the holy places-like the
> tongue in jawalamukhi pith etc.
>
>
> --- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "Mary Ann"
> <buttercookie61@y...> wrote:
> > Well, one needs to be careful about this, too. There are a lot of
> > people out there who think they know it all, and that when others
> don't
> > recognize it, it's because everyone else is a dualist, or
> > unenlightened, or whatever. About keeping unwanted energies away,
> the
> > great sage Mick Jagger said it best: "You can't always get what
> you
> > want/but if you try sometimes/you just might find/you get what
you
> > need."
> >
> > --- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "NMadasamy"
<nmadasamy@s...>
> > wrote:
> > > Mahandranatha wrote : She helps to keep unwanted energies and
> stupid
> > > people away from her devotees by creating the illusion that her
> > > devotee is ucchista=unclean also, while in fact this is only
> divine
> > > illusion to protect the knowledge from the dualists.
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes agreed. Sometimes DEVI will throw in the GEM and purposely
> make
> > it
> > > look like a fake. Only those who knows to differentiate between
> the
> > > real and the fake will be able to recognise it. This you cant
> learn
> > > from the book. It must come from first hand experience and from
> the
> > > master themselves.

Namaskaar Mary Ann

I just wanted to point you a couple of things, when a person perceives a
Devi/devatas a lot of the "ugliness" that is seen is actually emanating from
the perceivers mind - due to samskaars vasaanas and mental clutter. Some of the
wrathful forms appear quite
grotesque but that is as a result of the amount of power and energy that they
possess. This is how it appears to a developing mind that is unaware of this.

Also to judge people is to form an opinion by what they radiate to others. Many
times however people although well intentioned may not know how to express
themselves in a manner that is acceptable to all and sundry and because they
lack this they appear to be hostile, rude (and a host of other adjectives) etc.
Some of the most erudite opinions that I have heard have not come from scholars
but from very simple people who really wanted to find out things. You see the
problem with teaching people who already KNOW is that they already "know" !

Devindra Maharaj

Yes about that transformation of negative emotional "leftovers"

Repression causes sicknesses
Dumping them on other means loosing important parts of your own
vitality and you will eventually get them thrown back at you.
another quote from the pop culture jesus died for somebodys sins
but not mine, they belong to me. patti smith

Shiva is an outlaw he takes drugs even murdered brahma the karma of
this killing caused him to appear in the guise of Bhairava to roam
the earth with a skull stuck to his hand. He is adressed as the Lord
of thieves. But all these deeds create possibilities for other beings
of achieving freedom from rebirth. Time starts with an imbalance, if
the deities want to appear to us and other imbalanced beings they
must also create imabalances otherwise we would not see them, but
these imbalanced forms of the gods are willful, playful
manifestations. They are happening out of their own will.
(sanskrit:sveccha) this own will is one of the primal shaktis, human
beings also have this (icchha)shakti but usually in avery limited
form.
She is one of the triad Icchha Jnana Kriya, Will Mind and Deed



--- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "Mary Ann"
<buttercookie61@y...> wrote:
> Today in the parking garage for my office, the daily quote posted
at
> the entry says: "Beware as long as you live of judging people by
> appearances." -- Jean de la Fontaine
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_de_La_Fontaine
>
> But are you saying that Shiva made a mistake in choosing to appear
> that way?
>
>
>
> --- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "mahahradanatha"
> <mahahradanatha@y...> wrote:
> > It is just a function of this devi. Often people mistake the
cover
> > for the content, there can be worthwhile content in a simple
cover.
> > The devi takes that which we throw away and puts it to an use.
> > This is an internal function representing transformation of that
> > which is unhealthy to something which is useful and good.
> >
> > What you are talking about is self righteousness which is the
> normal
> > daily state of the average human mind, not a function of
ucchista
> > candali.
> >
> > The ugly appearance of the Gurus connected to the kaula
sampradaya
> is
> > legendary.
> > In fact also Shiva himself often appears in a very ugly outfit,
so
> > ugly that he is not invited to the legendary sacrifice of daksha
> > which caused problems that eventually led to the death of sati
and
> > the appeareance of the devis body parts in the holy places-like
the
> > tongue in jawalamukhi pith etc.
> >
> >
> > --- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "Mary Ann"
> > <buttercookie61@y...> wrote:
> > > Well, one needs to be careful about this, too. There are a lot
of
> > > people out there who think they know it all, and that when
others
> > don't
> > > recognize it, it's because everyone else is a dualist, or
> > > unenlightened, or whatever. About keeping unwanted energies
away,
> > the
> > > great sage Mick Jagger said it best: "You can't always get
what
> > you
> > > want/but if you try sometimes/you just might find/you get what
> you
> > > need."
> > >
> > > --- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "NMadasamy"
> <nmadasamy@s...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Mahandranatha wrote : She helps to keep unwanted energies and
> > stupid
> > > > people away from her devotees by creating the illusion that
her
> > > > devotee is ucchista=unclean also, while in fact this is only
> > divine
> > > > illusion to protect the knowledge from the dualists.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yes agreed. Sometimes DEVI will throw in the GEM and
purposely
> > make
> > > it
> > > > look like a fake. Only those who knows to differentiate
between
> > the
> > > > real and the fake will be able to recognise it. This you cant
> > learn
> > > > from the book. It must come from first hand experience and
from
> > the
> > > > master themselves.

Hi Mahahradanatha - Yes, I love those Patti Smith lines
(from "Gloria" on the Horses album for anyone out there who might
want to give that a listen if unafamiliar). I think by Smith's
statement, Jesus died, really, for his own sins, or choices.

Re the notion that Shiva's bad behaviors "create possibilities for
other beings
> of achieving freedom from rebirth" - this leaves room for people to
allow their mental imbalances to go unchecked. I am speaking
specifically of a man I know who identifies with Shiva and is
purposefully "acting out" so he can help others transform. Meanwhile,
he gets kicked out of groups, alienates folks, etc. I consider him to
have a "Jesus complex" in that he is sacrificing himself for what he
thinks is our benefit (I'm in a group he's been part of).

To take the idea to another extreme, you might say a woman could
thank her rapist b/c she had to do so much healing work after the
rape - and of course, this is truly a misapplication of spiritual
principles. But I feel spiritual principles have been misapplied this
way for millenia. And I get a hint of that in what you said about
Shiva's behavior's effect on others. Whatever the behavior's effect
on others, I think Shiva needs to just be responsible for his own
choices, and same with the rest of us, Devis/devatas or humans.


--- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "mahahradanatha"
<mahahradanatha@y...> wrote:
> Yes about that transformation of negative emotional "leftovers"
>
> Repression causes sicknesses
> Dumping them on other means loosing important parts of your own
> vitality and you will eventually get them thrown back at you.
> another quote from the pop culture jesus died for somebodys sins
> but not mine, they belong to me. patti smith
>
> Shiva is an outlaw he takes drugs even murdered brahma the karma
of
> this killing caused him to appear in the guise of Bhairava to roam
> the earth with a skull stuck to his hand. He is adressed as the
Lord
> of thieves. But all these deeds create possibilities for other
beings
> of achieving freedom from rebirth. Time starts with an imbalance,
if
> the deities want to appear to us and other imbalanced beings they
> must also create imabalances otherwise we would not see them, but
> these imbalanced forms of the gods are willful, playful
> manifestations. They are happening out of their own will.
> (sanskrit:sveccha) this own will is one of the primal shaktis,
human
> beings also have this (icchha)shakti but usually in avery limited
> form.
> She is one of the triad Icchha Jnana Kriya, Will Mind and Deed
>
>
>
> --- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "Mary Ann"
> <buttercookie61@y...> wrote:
> > Today in the parking garage for my office, the daily quote posted
> at
> > the entry says: "Beware as long as you live of judging people by
> > appearances." -- Jean de la Fontaine
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_de_La_Fontaine
> >
> > But are you saying that Shiva made a mistake in choosing to
appear
> > that way?
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "mahahradanatha"
> > <mahahradanatha@y...> wrote:
> > > It is just a function of this devi. Often people mistake the
> cover
> > > for the content, there can be worthwhile content in a simple
> cover.
> > > The devi takes that which we throw away and puts it to an use.
> > > This is an internal function representing transformation of
that
> > > which is unhealthy to something which is useful and good.
> > >
> > > What you are talking about is self righteousness which is the
> > normal
> > > daily state of the average human mind, not a function of
> ucchista
> > > candali.
> > >
> > > The ugly appearance of the Gurus connected to the kaula
> sampradaya
> > is
> > > legendary.
> > > In fact also Shiva himself often appears in a very ugly outfit,
> so
> > > ugly that he is not invited to the legendary sacrifice of
daksha
> > > which caused problems that eventually led to the death of sati
> and
> > > the appeareance of the devis body parts in the holy places-like
> the
> > > tongue in jawalamukhi pith etc.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "Mary Ann"
> > > <buttercookie61@y...> wrote:
> > > > Well, one needs to be careful about this, too. There are a
lot
> of
> > > > people out there who think they know it all, and that when
> others
> > > don't
> > > > recognize it, it's because everyone else is a dualist, or
> > > > unenlightened, or whatever. About keeping unwanted energies
> away,
> > > the
> > > > great sage Mick Jagger said it best: "You can't always get
> what
> > > you
> > > > want/but if you try sometimes/you just might find/you get
what
> > you
> > > > need."
> > > >
> > > > --- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "NMadasamy"
> > <nmadasamy@s...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > Mahandranatha wrote : She helps to keep unwanted energies
and
> > > stupid
> > > > > people away from her devotees by creating the illusion that
> her
> > > > > devotee is ucchista=unclean also, while in fact this is
only
> > > divine
> > > > > illusion to protect the knowledge from the dualists.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes agreed. Sometimes DEVI will throw in the GEM and
> purposely
> > > make
> > > > it
> > > > > look like a fake. Only those who knows to differentiate
> between
> > > the
> > > > > real and the fake will be able to recognise it. This you
cant
> > > learn
> > > > > from the book. It must come from first hand experience and
> from
> > > the
> > > > > master themselves.

Maybe what you are saying is that the ugliness is all in our
projections, but that is still not a reason for people or
Devis/devatas to behave in ugly ways. See my post just above this.
Are you saying that the Devis/devatas are just our own psychic
projections of God/dess, so that's why we revere them?

--- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, Dev Maharaj <dev_maharaj@y...>
wrote:
> Namaskaar Mary Ann
>
> I just wanted to point you a couple of things, when a person
perceives a Devi/devatas a lot of the "ugliness" that is seen is
actually emanating from the perceivers mind - due to samskaars
vasaanas and mental clutter. Some of the wrathful forms appear quite
> grotesque but that is as a result of the amount of power and energy
that they possess. This is how it appears to a developing mind that
is unaware of this.
>
> Also to judge people is to form an opinion by what they radiate to
others. Many times however people although well intentioned may not
know how to express themselves in a manner that is acceptable to all
and sundry and because they lack this they appear to be hostile, rude
(and a host of other adjectives) etc. Some of the most erudite
opinions that I have heard have not come from scholars but from very
simple people who really wanted to find out things. You see the
problem with teaching people who already KNOW is that they
already "know" !
>
> Devindra Maharaj

Hi Mary ann
> Hi Mahahradanatha - Yes, I love those Patti Smith lines
> (from "Gloria" on the Horses album for anyone out there who might
> want to give that a listen if unafamiliar). I think by Smith's
> statement, Jesus died, really, for his own sins, or choices.

And the other way around she wants to be a complete person
responsible for her own action and their results and not dump them on
somebody else.
>
> Re the notion that Shiva's bad behaviors "create possibilities for
> other beings
> > of achieving freedom from rebirth" - this leaves room for people
to
> allow their mental imbalances to go unchecked. I am speaking
> specifically of a man I know who identifies with Shiva and is
> purposefully "acting out" so he can help others transform.
Meanwhile,
> he gets kicked out of groups, alienates folks, etc. I consider him
to
> have a "Jesus complex" in that he is sacrificing himself for what
he
> thinks is our benefit (I'm in a group he's been part of).

I do not know of a single idea or thought or word that is not being
misused badly by some asshole.
>
> To take the idea to another extreme, you might say a woman could
> thank her rapist b/c she had to do so much healing work after the
> rape - and of course, this is truly a misapplication of spiritual
> principles. But I feel spiritual principles have been misapplied
this way for millenia.
Yes like the famous hellinger family theraphy this actually his idea
of respect and healing force.


And I get a hint of that in what you said about
> Shiva's behavior's effect on others. Whatever the behavior's effect
> on others, I think Shiva needs to just be responsible for his own
> choices, and same with the rest of us, Devis/devatas or humans.
>
This is exactly the difference the gods willfully enter into
existence and choose their roles out of "sveccha" free will knowing
and accepting the consequences. When they do this they create the
imbalance and balance the energy out again. This is called the
tandava dance of Shiva where every movement is balanced by another or
it is pictured also as lila a play of the Gods.

I dont think you will find a god on this planet that is poltical
correct all the time. Imagine that: "The Cult of the always political
correct" His holy book "No offence"




>
> --- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "mahahradanatha"
> <mahahradanatha@y...> wrote:
> > Yes about that transformation of negative emotional "leftovers"
> >
> > Repression causes sicknesses
> > Dumping them on other means loosing important parts of your own
> > vitality and you will eventually get them thrown back at you.
> > another quote from the pop culture jesus died for somebodys
sins
> > but not mine, they belong to me. patti smith
> >
> > Shiva is an outlaw he takes drugs even murdered brahma the karma
> of
> > this killing caused him to appear in the guise of Bhairava to
roam
> > the earth with a skull stuck to his hand. He is adressed as the
> Lord
> > of thieves. But all these deeds create possibilities for other
> beings
> > of achieving freedom from rebirth. Time starts with an imbalance,
> if
> > the deities want to appear to us and other imbalanced beings they
> > must also create imabalances otherwise we would not see them,
but
> > these imbalanced forms of the gods are willful, playful
> > manifestations. They are happening out of their own will.
> > (sanskrit:sveccha) this own will is one of the primal shaktis,
> human
> > beings also have this (icchha)shakti but usually in avery limited
> > form.
> > She is one of the triad Icchha Jnana Kriya, Will Mind and Deed
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "Mary Ann"
> > <buttercookie61@y...> wrote:
> > > Today in the parking garage for my office, the daily quote
posted
> > at
> > > the entry says: "Beware as long as you live of judging people
by
> > > appearances." -- Jean de la Fontaine
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_de_La_Fontaine
> > >
> > > But are you saying that Shiva made a mistake in choosing to
> appear
> > > that way?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "mahahradanatha"
> > > <mahahradanatha@y...> wrote:
> > > > It is just a function of this devi. Often people mistake the
> > cover
> > > > for the content, there can be worthwhile content in a simple
> > cover.
> > > > The devi takes that which we throw away and puts it to an use.
> > > > This is an internal function representing transformation of
> that
> > > > which is unhealthy to something which is useful and good.
> > > >
> > > > What you are talking about is self righteousness which is the
> > > normal
> > > > daily state of the average human mind, not a function of
> > ucchista
> > > > candali.
> > > >
> > > > The ugly appearance of the Gurus connected to the kaula
> > sampradaya
> > > is
> > > > legendary.
> > > > In fact also Shiva himself often appears in a very ugly
outfit,
> > so
> > > > ugly that he is not invited to the legendary sacrifice of
> daksha
> > > > which caused problems that eventually led to the death of
sati
> > and
> > > > the appeareance of the devis body parts in the holy places-
like
> > the
> > > > tongue in jawalamukhi pith etc.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "Mary Ann"
> > > > <buttercookie61@y...> wrote:
> > > > > Well, one needs to be careful about this, too. There are a
> lot
> > of
> > > > > people out there who think they know it all, and that when
> > others
> > > > don't
> > > > > recognize it, it's because everyone else is a dualist, or
> > > > > unenlightened, or whatever. About keeping unwanted energies
> > away,
> > > > the
> > > > > great sage Mick Jagger said it best: "You can't always get
> > what
> > > > you
> > > > > want/but if you try sometimes/you just might find/you get
> what
> > > you
> > > > > need."
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "NMadasamy"
> > > <nmadasamy@s...>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > Mahandranatha wrote : She helps to keep unwanted energies
> and
> > > > stupid
> > > > > > people away from her devotees by creating the illusion
that
> > her
> > > > > > devotee is ucchista=unclean also, while in fact this is
> only
> > > > divine
> > > > > > illusion to protect the knowledge from the dualists.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes agreed. Sometimes DEVI will throw in the GEM and
> > purposely
> > > > make
> > > > > it
> > > > > > look like a fake. Only those who knows to differentiate
> > between
> > > > the
> > > > > > real and the fake will be able to recognise it. This you
> cant
> > > > learn
> > > > > > from the book. It must come from first hand experience
and
> > from
> > > > the
> > > > > > master themselves.

Your comments are much appreciated, as usual. Re the below, it isn't
about "political correctness" but that those who are being tread on,
if that is the case, learn to support themselves in whatever way is
most appropriate in any given situation, that is, moving from the
highest internal principle(s) ("Be the change you want to see in the
world"), and in so doing, the external is also elevated.



--- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "mahahradanatha"
<mahahradanatha@y...> wrote:
> I dont think you will find a god on this planet that is poltical
> correct all the time. Imagine that: "The Cult of the always
political
> correct" His holy book "No offence"
>
>
>
>
> >
> > --- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "mahahradanatha"
> > <mahahradanatha@y...> wrote:
> > > Yes about that transformation of negative emotional "leftovers"
> > >
> > > Repression causes sicknesses
> > > Dumping them on other means loosing important parts of your own
> > > vitality and you will eventually get them thrown back at you.
> > > another quote from the pop culture jesus died for somebodys
> sins
> > > but not mine, they belong to me. patti smith
> > >
> > > Shiva is an outlaw he takes drugs even murdered brahma the
karma
> > of
> > > this killing caused him to appear in the guise of Bhairava to
> roam
> > > the earth with a skull stuck to his hand. He is adressed as the
> > Lord
> > > of thieves. But all these deeds create possibilities for other
> > beings
> > > of achieving freedom from rebirth. Time starts with an
imbalance,
> > if
> > > the deities want to appear to us and other imbalanced beings
they
> > > must also create imabalances otherwise we would not see them,
> but
> > > these imbalanced forms of the gods are willful, playful
> > > manifestations. They are happening out of their own will.
> > > (sanskrit:sveccha) this own will is one of the primal shaktis,
> > human
> > > beings also have this (icchha)shakti but usually in avery
limited
> > > form.
> > > She is one of the triad Icchha Jnana Kriya, Will Mind and Deed
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "Mary Ann"
> > > <buttercookie61@y...> wrote:
> > > > Today in the parking garage for my office, the daily quote
> posted
> > > at
> > > > the entry says: "Beware as long as you live of judging
people
> by
> > > > appearances." -- Jean de la Fontaine
> > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_de_La_Fontaine
> > > >
> > > > But are you saying that Shiva made a mistake in choosing to
> > appear
> > > > that way?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "mahahradanatha"
> > > > <mahahradanatha@y...> wrote:
> > > > > It is just a function of this devi. Often people mistake
the
> > > cover
> > > > > for the content, there can be worthwhile content in a
simple
> > > cover.
> > > > > The devi takes that which we throw away and puts it to an
use.
> > > > > This is an internal function representing transformation of
> > that
> > > > > which is unhealthy to something which is useful and good.
> > > > >
> > > > > What you are talking about is self righteousness which is
the
> > > > normal
> > > > > daily state of the average human mind, not a function of
> > > ucchista
> > > > > candali.
> > > > >
> > > > > The ugly appearance of the Gurus connected to the kaula
> > > sampradaya
> > > > is
> > > > > legendary.
> > > > > In fact also Shiva himself often appears in a very ugly
> outfit,
> > > so
> > > > > ugly that he is not invited to the legendary sacrifice of
> > daksha
> > > > > which caused problems that eventually led to the death of
> sati
> > > and
> > > > > the appeareance of the devis body parts in the holy places-
> like
> > > the
> > > > > tongue in jawalamukhi pith etc.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "Mary Ann"
> > > > > <buttercookie61@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > Well, one needs to be careful about this, too. There are
a
> > lot
> > > of
> > > > > > people out there who think they know it all, and that
when
> > > others
> > > > > don't
> > > > > > recognize it, it's because everyone else is a dualist, or
> > > > > > unenlightened, or whatever. About keeping unwanted
energies
> > > away,
> > > > > the
> > > > > > great sage Mick Jagger said it best: "You can't always
get
> > > what
> > > > > you
> > > > > > want/but if you try sometimes/you just might find/you get
> > what
> > > > you
> > > > > > need."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "NMadasamy"
> > > > <nmadasamy@s...>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > Mahandranatha wrote : She helps to keep unwanted
energies
> > and
> > > > > stupid
> > > > > > > people away from her devotees by creating the illusion
> that
> > > her
> > > > > > > devotee is ucchista=unclean also, while in fact this is
> > only
> > > > > divine
> > > > > > > illusion to protect the knowledge from the dualists.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yes agreed. Sometimes DEVI will throw in the GEM and
> > > purposely
> > > > > make
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > look like a fake. Only those who knows to differentiate
> > > between
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > real and the fake will be able to recognise it. This
you
> > cant
> > > > > learn
> > > > > > > from the book. It must come from first hand experience
> and
> > > from
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > master themselves.

IMHO

--- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "Mary Ann"
<buttercookie61@y...> wrote:
> Your comments are much appreciated, as usual. Re the below, it
isn't
> about "political correctness" but that those who are being tread
on,
> if that is the case, learn to support themselves in whatever way is
> most appropriate in any given situation, that is, moving from the
> highest internal principle(s) ("Be the change you want to see in
the
> world"), and in so doing, the external is also elevated.
>
>
>
> --- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "mahahradanatha"
> <mahahradanatha@y...> wrote:
> > I dont think you will find a god on this planet that is poltical
> > correct all the time. Imagine that: "The Cult of the always
> political
> > correct" His holy book "No offence"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > --- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "mahahradanatha"
> > > <mahahradanatha@y...> wrote:
> > > > Yes about that transformation of negative
emotional "leftovers"
> > > >
> > > > Repression causes sicknesses
> > > > Dumping them on other means loosing important parts of your
own
> > > > vitality and you will eventually get them thrown back at
you.
> > > > another quote from the pop culture jesus died for somebodys
> > sins
> > > > but not mine, they belong to me. patti smith
> > > >
> > > > Shiva is an outlaw he takes drugs even murdered brahma the
> karma
> > > of
> > > > this killing caused him to appear in the guise of Bhairava to
> > roam
> > > > the earth with a skull stuck to his hand. He is adressed as
the
> > > Lord
> > > > of thieves. But all these deeds create possibilities for
other
> > > beings
> > > > of achieving freedom from rebirth. Time starts with an
> imbalance,
> > > if
> > > > the deities want to appear to us and other imbalanced beings
> they
> > > > must also create imabalances otherwise we would not see
them,
> > but
> > > > these imbalanced forms of the gods are willful, playful
> > > > manifestations. They are happening out of their own will.
> > > > (sanskrit:sveccha) this own will is one of the primal
shaktis,
> > > human
> > > > beings also have this (icchha)shakti but usually in avery
> limited
> > > > form.
> > > > She is one of the triad Icchha Jnana Kriya, Will Mind and Deed
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "Mary Ann"
> > > > <buttercookie61@y...> wrote:
> > > > > Today in the parking garage for my office, the daily quote
> > posted
> > > > at
> > > > > the entry says: "Beware as long as you live of judging
> people
> > by
> > > > > appearances." -- Jean de la Fontaine
> > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_de_La_Fontaine
> > > > >
> > > > > But are you saying that Shiva made a mistake in choosing to
> > > appear
> > > > > that way?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "mahahradanatha"
> > > > > <mahahradanatha@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > It is just a function of this devi. Often people mistake
> the
> > > > cover
> > > > > > for the content, there can be worthwhile content in a
> simple
> > > > cover.
> > > > > > The devi takes that which we throw away and puts it to an
> use.
> > > > > > This is an internal function representing transformation
of
> > > that
> > > > > > which is unhealthy to something which is useful and good.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What you are talking about is self righteousness which is
> the
> > > > > normal
> > > > > > daily state of the average human mind, not a function of
> > > > ucchista
> > > > > > candali.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The ugly appearance of the Gurus connected to the kaula
> > > > sampradaya
> > > > > is
> > > > > > legendary.
> > > > > > In fact also Shiva himself often appears in a very ugly
> > outfit,
> > > > so
> > > > > > ugly that he is not invited to the legendary sacrifice of
> > > daksha
> > > > > > which caused problems that eventually led to the death of
> > sati
> > > > and
> > > > > > the appeareance of the devis body parts in the holy
places-
> > like
> > > > the
> > > > > > tongue in jawalamukhi pith etc.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "Mary Ann"
> > > > > > <buttercookie61@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > > Well, one needs to be careful about this, too. There
are
> a
> > > lot
> > > > of
> > > > > > > people out there who think they know it all, and that
> when
> > > > others
> > > > > > don't
> > > > > > > recognize it, it's because everyone else is a dualist,
or
> > > > > > > unenlightened, or whatever. About keeping unwanted
> energies
> > > > away,
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > great sage Mick Jagger said it best: "You can't always
> get
> > > > what
> > > > > > you
> > > > > > > want/but if you try sometimes/you just might find/you
get
> > > what
> > > > > you
> > > > > > > need."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In Shakti_Sadhana (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "NMadasamy"
> > > > > <nmadasamy@s...>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > Mahandranatha wrote : She helps to keep unwanted
> energies
> > > and
> > > > > > stupid
> > > > > > > > people away from her devotees by creating the
illusion
> > that
> > > > her
> > > > > > > > devotee is ucchista=unclean also, while in fact this
is
> > > only
> > > > > > divine
> > > > > > > > illusion to protect the knowledge from the dualists.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Yes agreed. Sometimes DEVI will throw in the GEM and
> > > > purposely
> > > > > > make
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > look like a fake. Only those who knows to
differentiate
> > > > between
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > real and the fake will be able to recognise it. This
> you
> > > cant
> > > > > > learn
> > > > > > > > from the book. It must come from first hand
experience
> > and
> > > > from
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > master themselves.

Namaskaar

Mary Ann what a Devi or devata does I can only accept,
they are a higher being that has reasons for doing
things which I cannot necessarily appreciate, I trust
that whatever they do it is by the absolute will of
God . We must also be careful to understand that we
are
trying to judge or impose our value judgements
relative to our era of time . These are immortals that
have seen things we can only imagine at, to judge
their rationale for actions might not necessarily be
healthy as we are in a learning stage.

People will behave in ugly ways for a number of
reasons
1) Egoism
2) Selfishness
3) Cruelty
4) Genetic programming inherited from ancestors
5) Unclean energy - over development of tamas guna in
the energy fields, chakras etc.

These are the primary sources and there may be more.

No I am not saying that they are our psychic
projections at all, they are individual energies that
are part of the absolute reality, they have the
ability to descend to our level of consciousness,
communicate with us and then return from whence they
came ( at great sacrifice on their part I might add !
)
We revere them for a number of reasons
1) Because they are part of the source energy our
subconscious remembers this.
2) By continuous worship they become the object of
adoration, hence the more we perform devotion the
more we like them.
3) When one worships a Devi/Devata there is an
exchange
of energy, we become accustomed to their energy
over
time.
4) When we examine our ancestors who worshipped them
for thousands of years we are fond of their energy
as it is a part of us.

Dhanyavaad
Pandit Devindra Maharaj