Inconceivable Topics: How or from where the soul has come from?

krsna · 02-03-2005, 03:24 AM

Inconceivable Topics - KRSNA TALK 54
by
Swami B.G. Narasingha

Question: I have heard it said recently by some devotees that the origin of the jiva
(regarding the soul's falling or not falling from the lila of Krsna) is inconceivable and
that we cannot imagine or understand how or from where the soul has come into this
material world. Can you please comment on this controversial topic?

Answer: With our tiny brains so many things in Krsna consciousness are inconceivable.
Not only is the origin of the soul inconceivable but Krsna's name, His form, qualities,
and pastimes are all inconceivable to us. Who could conceive that the Absolute Truth
(the source of all existence) is crawling as an infant child in the courtyard of Nanda
Maharaja or suckling the breast of Mother Yasoda?

The great devotee, Raghupati Upadhyaya says,

srutim apare smrtim itare bharatam anye bhajantu bhava-bhitah,Įaham iha nandam vande
yasyalinde param brahma

"Those who are afraid of material existence worship the Vedic literature. Some worship
smrti, the corollaries to the Vedic literature, and others worship the Mahabharata. As
far as I am concerned, I worship Krsna's father, Maharaja Nanda, in whose courtyard the
Supreme Personality of Godhead, the Absolute Truth, is playing."

That the Absolute Truth is crawling in the courtyard of Nanda Maharaja is inconceivable
to even the greatest thinkers that the world has ever known, but it is a fact.

When we rely on the capacity of our tiny brain then all such things may be
inconceivable. Knowledge or proper understanding of the Absolute Truth is obtained through the
descending process (avaroha) and not through the ascending process (aroha). Aroha depends
on the mind and senses, which are inherently defective and thus knowledge obtained in
this way is also defective or incomplete.

Avaroha means the process of receiving transcendental knowledge through the disciplic
succession of self-realized souls. Such knowledge when received submissively enables one
to understand the Absolute Truth.

The sound that comes to us through (disciplic succession) the process of avaroha is
also called sabda-brahma or transcendental sound vibration that is not subject to bhrama
(mistakes), pramada (illusion), vipralipsa (cheating), or karanapatava (imperfect
perception).

On the other hand any form of knowledge or understanding (particularly regarding the
Absolute Truth) sought through the process of aroha is most certainly wrought with the
four defects of bhrama, pramada, vipralipsa, and karanapatava.

If we want to know the origin of the soul or to understand the Supreme Personality of
Godhead we must first hear from authorities with faith (sraddha). This is called
sravana-dasa, hearing from authorities with faith.

Then comes varana-dasa, acceptance. When we faithfully hear from authorities the next
natural step is to accept what the authorities have said. Only faith allows us to
embrace transcendental knowledge. If for some reason we lack the essential faith and rely on
our tiny brains for understanding, then the truth remains inconceivable and beyond our
understanding or power of recognition. When we lack the proper faith then even after
hearing the truth we will fail to recognize it.

Acceptance or varana-dasa must be followed by sadhana-dasa, the stage of practice.
Practice means to follow in the footsteps. This means that the knowledge from spiritual
authorities must be followed and passed on to others without adding anything of our own
concoction. What the self-realized authorities say we accept as truth.

Then we come to the stage of prapana-dasa or attainment. In prapana-dasa there is
realization of the Absolute Truth. That which has been accepted on the basis of faith now
becomes fully realized.

By the grace of our spiritual teachers we can accept the truth after hearing with faith
and thus such matters as the inconceivable origin of the jiva can easily be understood
even in our neophyte stage of spiritual life.

If we do not have real faith then even after hearing the truth we will not accept it or
embrace it fully. The issue of the origin of the jiva is only inconceivable in the
minds of those devotees who have not embraced the transcendental knowledge passed down in
our disciplic succession.

Our spiritual master Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada has stated:

"The conclusion is that no one falls from the spiritual world, or Vaikuntha planet, for
it is the eternal abode." (S.B. purport, 3.16.26)

Shortly before the close of Srila Prabhupada's manifest pastimes he left instruction
that if his disciples had any questions regarding philosophy that they should approach
his godbrother, Srila B.R. Sridhara Maharaja.

As it turned out, the origin of the jiva and the jivas falling or not falling from the
spiritual world was one of the first philosophical questions to be raised after the
departure of Srila Prabhupada. Thus the disciples of Srila Prabhupada approached his
godbrother Srila B.R. Sridhara Maharaja for clarification and instruction. Srila Sridhar
Deva Goswami Maharaja stated as follows:

"The brahma-jyoti, the non-differentiated marginal plane, is the source of infinite
jiva souls, atomic spiritual particles of non-differentiated character. The rays of the
Lord's transcendental body are known as the brahma-jyoti, and a pencil of a ray of the
brahma-jyoti is the jiva. The jiva soul is an atom in that effulgence, and the
brahma-jyoti is a product of an infinite number of jiva atoms.

"Generally, souls emanate from the brahma-jyoti which is living and growing. Within the
brahma-jyoti, their equilibrium is somehow disturbed and movement begins. From
non-differentiation, differentiation begins.

From a plain sheet of uniform consciousness, individual conscious units grow. And
because the jiva is conscious it is endowed with free will. So, from the marginal position
they choose either the side of exploitation or the side of dedication.

"Because the soul is very small, his freedom is also imperfect; a soul in the marginal
position is very vulnerable. Freedom does not mean absolute freedom. Because the soul's
existence is small, his freedom is defective -- there is the possibility of committing
a mistake. Freedom of the minute soul does not mean perfect freedom. Complete freedom
would be perfect reality, but the minute soul is endowed with the smallest atomic
freedom. This is the position of the atoms of consciousness, and this is why they are
vulnerable. They may judge properly or improperly; that is the position of those who are
situated in the marginal position. If the soul were not endowed with the freedom to
determine his position, we would have to blame God for our suffering. But we cannot blame God.
The starting point of the soul's suffering is within himself." (Sri Krsna - Reality the
Beautiful, ch-4, Origin of the Soul)

When approached about this subject, Srila Sridhara Maharaja made no reference
whatsoever to the jiva ever having been in the lila of Krsna before his having fallen down to
this material world. Rather Srila Sridhara Maharaja makes it quite clear that the jiva
originates in the marginal plane of existence.

This is called srota-pantha, hearing and accepting knowledge through the disciplic
succession. Those who struggle with embracing the proper Gaudiya Vaisnava siddhanta
regarding to origin of the soul (as described above) are either the victims of a poor fund of
faith or they are simply suffering from the reactions of vaisnava-aparadha.

When we lack the essential faith to hear from authorities about the knowledge
pertaining to even the simplest truth (as the jiva issue) then what chance do we stand to
understand the higher lilas of Radha and Krsna in Vrndavana, where every word is a song and
every step is a dance and from where once having gone no one ever returns.

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Further references on the topic of the "Origin of the Jiva" are available at the
following URLs:

Jiva Tattva Article (Previous Krsna Talk)
http://www.gosai.com/krishna-talk/jiva-tatastha-53.html

Jiva Tattva Article & References
http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/saran...jiva/jiva.html

Tulsi Devi and the Origin of the Jiva
http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/saran...ulsi_devi.html

Kala Krsnadasa & the Origin of the Jiva
http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/saran...krsnadasa.html

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dhaa · 10-02-2005, 05:41 PM

Origin of the Jiva - Tatastha Shakti - Marginal Plane - Falldown from Spiritual World? - Krsna Talk 53

JIVAS and the MARGINAL PLANE

by

Swami B.G. Narasingha

According to the OOP book A.C. Bhaktivedanta Svami Prabhupada sometimes says the jiva falls from association with Krsna and sometimes he says the jiva does not fall. This then becomes a paradox. A paradox is a statement, proposition or situation that seems to be absurd or contradictory, but in fact is or may be true. OOP therefore suggests that the jiva falls and doesn't fall simultaneously. But when A. C Bhaktivedanta Svami Prabhupada himself states the conclusion, then the so-called 'paradox' created by some of his followers, vanishes.

According to the Bhaktivedanta purport on Srimad Bhagavatam 3.16.26:

"The conclusion is that no one falls from the spiritual world, or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode."

This conclusion, which completely negates the so-called paradoxical view created in the OOP book, is also upheld by sastra and previous acaryas such as Jiva Gosvami, Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, and all bona fide devotees in the Gaudiya Vaisnava sampradaya. The conclusion is that the jivas, that are now conditioned by the modes of material nature and originate in the 'tatastha' or the marginal plane of existence, did not fall from the spiritual world.

Ignoring the conclusion of their spiritual master, the authors of the OOP book insist that the jiva falls from the spiritual world. Thus their opinions are taken simply as faulty interpolations

.......

OUR CONCLUSION

From sastra and the opinions of acaryas as quoted above it is quite clear that there is no possibility of fall down from the spiritual world, Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrndavana. That Iskcon leaders continue to preach the apa-siddhanta (false conclusion) of the fall of the jiva from the spiritual world (as they have done in the OOP book) is indeed unfortunate and misleading.

In 1981 Iskcon leaders challenged the wisdom of Srila Sridhara Deva Gosvami when he tried to help them with a correct understanding of the marginal position of the jiva, but they returned his kindness with insult and offense. Having offended such a pure Vaisnava and calling him a 'mayavadi' for upholding the position of the jiva as marginal, Iskcon has now adopted the 'fall philosophy' that is tantamount to impersonalism (because such a 'fall philosophy' suggests the fallibility of the spiritual world) as their institutional doctrine. This is clearly an anartha (bhrama-tattva) that results from Vaisnava-aparadha.

In 1987 Iskcon leaders made an official apology to Srila Sridhara Maharaja for their offensive behavior towards him but then they continued to neglect his instructions and guidance in the matter of properly understanding Gaudiya Vaisnava philosophy.