In desperate need of help .... (Ravindran Kesavan ji or any other senior member) - Page 3

Ravindran Kesavan · 07-24-2008, 01:27 AM

Dear Luciana,

Regards. There is lot of misconception about tantra. People think it is evil. Common folk who know nothing of tantra and witchcraft think that it is evil and fear it. As a result of this ignorance and their own fear they commit attrocious crime againt tantric practicioners. In the west there was one time when the orthodox church commited atrocious crimes - witch burning and torchering and all that stuff - against people who were involved in Wika. Wika simply is a old religion before cristinaty came to existence and is as wholy as cristianity itself. Only that it is a different religion. Even in india in supersticious villages we come across terible crime against some old poor women accused to be witch practice.

Tantra is not evil. It is holy -Very holy. The word meaning of tantra is technique , technology. It is a technology of transmutation of soul to God - of jeeva to Siva. All tantras - there are sixty four of them - are techniques of kundalini awakening. Kundalini is the Shakti - power -that all tantras deals with and nothing else. All the gods and goddesses involved in tantra are the same kundalini - its various manifestations in human body. Each chakra in the body is associated with a tantric deity and each nerve associated with that chakra has a specific goddess. For example in the root centre is the tantric goddes Dakini, In Swadistana is Rahini, and so on. Each Goddess in turrn is the head of a host of other deities associated with eash nerve.

The powers - siddhis - supernatural accomplishments - come from unlashing our own inner potentials. We get various powers when we awake kundalini and activarte various nerve centres whch lie dormant in average human. According to tantric science there are Eight centres in the bogy. ( the more convintional seven chakra plus one more situated in between throat and evebrow - at the place where there is an hole at the pallet inside mouth ) Each of these eight centres has eight nerves radiating from them and there are thus 8X8 = 64 spiritual nerves. Each nerve is associates with a yogic godess called Yogini and associated with a yogic power called yoga siddhi. Thus there are 64 yoginis, sixty four Siddhis, and Sixty four tantras.

There is nothing evil about practicing tantra. It is in fact our duty to accomplish our full potential . Being born as human and not achiving what we are capable of , and living like a beast - just eating, mating sleeping and reproducing - which is called socally normal life is disgusting and sinful.

Tantras are very holy. They give us the methods of unlashing our own potetials. All the Tantric gods and powers are our own aspects. Tantra is a most wonderful science dealing with the inner wisdom.

Rama Krishna Paramahamsa the top class mystic of Bengal practiced tantric path. Kali worship (and for that matter any worship of any deity with form - idol , and mantra) is tantric. If fact he was trained in all sixty four tantras. But the ignorant version of tantra probagated in the streets of Bengal is full of misinformation, ignorance and fear. People are made to fear "Black magic" in order to make a business of "whit magic" . This is a business con. There is no blackmagic and whitemagic. There is only one magic - the principles are same. However the use might differ - just like the same knife could be used to kill in the hands of the murderer and save life in the hand of a surgion. When people develop power using kundalini - and all powers are due to kundalini only, there are no other power - it can be used for good purpose or for bad purpose. The good purpose is to seek liberation the bad purpose is to seek fullfilment of materialistic desires. That is the spiritual definition of good and evil. By this definition by whatever method one is involved in materilistic desire fulfilment - tantra or other wise - is evil. It is not tanta it self that is evil. Tantra is Holy. It is worshiping science, a science of transcendance. A science of transformation of soul to god.

In Kali age, scriptural texts declare that Veda will not be effective. Only agamas - the worshipping methods of deities, with form mantra and rictuals - are declared to be effective. Tantras are part of agamas. They are the holy of the holiest religions.

I thought I would clear some of the misconceptions associated with tantra.

Regards,
K.Ravindran

ravikishore · 07-24-2008, 10:38 AM

Dear Ravindran Sir,

In your previous post, I was relieved to hear that I could seek the help of the person who would perform tantra to help me marry the girl I desire.

In fact this is what you mentioned:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravindran Kesavan

Dear Ravikishore,

I personally dont think anything wrong to employ tantric science to achieve what we want. It is a science. Just like mankind invented aeroplane to fulfill its desire to fly, And there is no violation natural laws or forcing nature if you fly in an aeroplane. Similarly Tantra is a Science and is a wonderful invention to fulfill human needs. Employing it is no sin - the purpose of employing it may be sinful or holy.

However, in you next post (below), you say that seeking fulfillment of materialistic desires is evil. I'm confused. Assuming I seek the help of person who will help me marry the girl I desire, will I be creating bad karma? will this ensure subsequent births? Am I not denying her a better life partner by doing tantra? If yes, can I wash off that karma in this birth itself? My aim to attain moksha (liberation). That is my sankalpam during yoga nidra. However, I'm unable to overcome the desire to marry this girl, hence the dilemma and anxiety.

What surprises me is that people have committed heinous acts like murder (e.g. Valmiki) and attained salvation by chanting God's name. And, I'm just talking about performing tantra to marry a girl, not kill or harm anyone. So, I'm sure than even if I perform tantra and marry this girl and, assuming that it is a sin, I'm sure there must be ways of washing away this sin in this birth and attain salvation.

Kindly clarify and advice sir.

Thank You.

Kind Regards,
Ravikishore

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravindran Kesavan

Dear Luciana,

There is only one magic - the principles are same. However the use might differ - just like the same knife could be used to kill in the hands of the murderer and save life in the hand of a surgion. When people develop power using kundalini - and all powers are due to kundalini only, there are no other power - it can be used for good purpose or for bad purpose. The good purpose is to seek liberation the bad purpose is to seek fullfilment of materialistic desires. That is the spiritual definition of good and evil. By this definition by whatever method one is involved in materilistic desire fulfilment - tantra or other wise - is evil. It is not tanta it self that is evil.

Ravindran Kesavan · 07-25-2008, 12:16 AM

Dear Ravikishore,

Do not get confused when I am explaining the concept of evil in a context of spiritual perspective. According to spiritual perspective, Being materialistic is evil and that is the only definition of evil. Because it will not allow you to be liberated. It will only be deeply immerse you in the material realm and bring you next birth next to that and next to that and so on in endless sequences of birth. This is evil and action from your part that givers you this result is sin.

By this definition of sin even if you get married to a girl by normal social ,convention - say a typical arrangerd marrage - it is a sin. Because You are leading a metrialistic life. Tour leading an animal existence surrendering to the animal instinct of sex and reproduction. You are not striving for liberation . You are not transcending your beastly nature.

You get it? Living the very materialistic nature immersed in ignorance and not seeking liberation is sin. If You lead that life style certainly it will bring you a next birth. If you are not renouncing the world it is a sin.

It has nothing to do with tantra. Even if you dont employ tantra and acquire a girl in a traditional sober socially sanctioned way it is still a sin.

Given the fact mejority of people do live that way and by all probability you could be one of them makes me not to preach to you to renounce. That is not you are made for and you will not listen to me. Hence my advise that it doesnot matter by what means you decided to lead a sinful life. Go conventional or use tantra it doesnot matter the aim is same. You decided to live a beastly life.

You must understand that I am not intimidating you . I Fully understand your state and once I was like you. Many in the world are like you. Hence my advice: there is no point in living in guilt. The purpose of guilt is reform. If you are giving up your ways and change your self then guilt is meaning bful. But if you donot iintent to give up and perpetuate your old ways then what is the point of suffering withn guilt ? you might as well live your choosen path happly isint it?

So I dint prech to you getting married it self is sin. I know you wont buy that. Your conflict iis not whether to get married or not to get married. Your conflict is whether to employ tantra or not, given your decision that you will get married. In this context I advised you that there is no sin in employing tantra. I still hold that, as tantra in it self is no evil thing . It is holy of the holiest. My last post would have given some idea about the true nature of tantra. It is about development of the self.

Having said all this now let me advise you a very practical thing. Let this advise be the final verson from my side Disregard all the previous advise of mine as it only gives you confusion to You. Here is my advise:

Do not employ tantra. Not because it is evil but because you have a conflict in your mind about it. You are guilty of it. That is why you keep seeking advise on it at the first place and thinking of all the atonement of doing worship or doing service latter in your life. It is all guilt driven there is no point to commit a mistake first and keep on feeling misserable through out your life, right?. You will never be able to live a peaceful and happy life latter, if you do what you contemplate now. Get it? Dont do it.

More over I am now sure about the person you are talking about - the one who you think is a tantric. I am sure now that he is not a tantric. He doesnot have any genune power. You might wonder how I know this. You mentioned elsewhere that he gave a demonstration on telipathy. It is no telipathy.It is a trick - Many good stage magicions are able to do this trick . Even you can do it- with out any telipathy . I cannot explain how that is done in this short forum. It requires long explanation. There are books on it. I have a copy. I know what he is doing. He is cheeting you. You will only wate your money.

I know how desperate you are feeling. You are willing to do anything to win the girl. And most probably you will not pay heed of my words and go ahesd and try everything. There is no harm in trying, provided you can offord the price . You will only learn from your experience that you are being cheeted on your vulnerability. And you will become wise latter from your own direct experience.

I am not pouring cold water on your burning hope. You will agree with me much latter, that I am right.

Regards,
K.Ravindran

srikanthdk71 · 07-25-2008, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaguar

Hi Dhruv,
Though I am no spiritually sound person nor into tantra mantra but while reading some Spiritual site for solving my problems, I happened to come across mention of your problem and its cause. I think that "might" be your problem and thus hint on how to solve it.
The problem you/your sister is facing could be due to your ancestorial problem. Your ancestors could be waiting for salvation due to less good karmas and thus they trouble their decendants into to get Spiritual gratification. Get this angle checked that your family is not having Pritru dosha. I believe that your family is possesed by some of your ancestor who is troubling your sister(becoz she is the most spiritual/vunerable) amongst all of you. If she gets more spiritual this will help your ancestor shred of his raja-tama gunas and thus come out of Hell/Nether plane. You can read http://spiritualresearchfoundation.o...sixthsense.php for more info. Hope this helped in some way.

Jai Shri Krishna.

Mahashyay, the quote about ancestoral problem and the Pitru Dosha is absolutely correct. But in Dhruv's case, the problem has blown out after a period of time. The ancestoral problem can only occur only from the time of birth to you or later to your children and not in between. I find some initiation Dosha here. The seed of the initiation has not reached its goal and nothing more serious. Nizamuddin Auliyas Darga or a Shirdi Sai Baba temple can definitely be of help on this problem by removing the bad seed of initiation. Be careful while taking Deeksha in public.

msnamita · 07-25-2008, 10:08 AM

Quote:

By this definition of sin even if you get married to a girl by normal social ,convention - say a typical arrangerd marrage - it is a sin. Because You are leading a metrialistic life. Tour leading an animal existence surrendering to the animal instinct of sex and reproduction. You are not striving for liberation . You are not transcending your beastly nature.

So as per you Ramakrishna Paramhamsa was a sinner and was full of beastly nature since he was married to a girl by normal social ,convention - say a typical arranged marriage?And as per the same rules Lord Shiv who married twice was also a sinner he also have a family of his own.
See I do not want to be rude or something but your statements seems to be ambiguous and this guy will be getting confused.
No force in this nature is purely evil or purely good. Tantra, say for example can be applied for both good and bad means... right? so your saying that Tantra is only good is half correct. This guy wants to apply tantra to get a girl of his choice so can you please explain how tantra will do this work what magic will it do. A force does not has its own mind,reciting a mantra creates some energy that will try to infiltrate girls mind, it will react with karmic connections of that girl from previous births ... may be girl is destined for someone else (who can better take care of her) but the tantra force her to marry this guy... tell me whether this event will create some ripples or not... whether this can disturb there karmic connections or not.
When i came to this topic it appeared you are senior member. To a brother you gave this advice that her sister is having some mental problems and to some guy you are justifying to apply tantra in evil way what a contradiction.
And as for your knowledge sharing i will suggest you to tell people about cures and not as how to use weapons. Believe me - the knowledge that you want to share of alluring a girl one can easily find in 50-100 rs. priced book like INDRAJAAL. Yes I'm a female and 5-6 years back i also faced similar problems but thanks to my Guru i was able to come out of this.

ravikishore · 07-25-2008, 10:52 AM

Namaste msnamita,

Thank you for your participation in helping me out. I request you to kindly provide answers to the questions I posted in #42, if you can. You do raise an interesting point by saying the following:

Quote:

Originally Posted by msnamita

This guy wants to apply tantra to get a girl of his choice so can you please explain how tantra will do this work what magic will it do. A force does not has its own mind,reciting a mantra creates some energy that will try to infiltrate girls mind it will react with karmic connections of that girl from previous births ... may be girl is destined for someone else (who can better take care of care) but the tantra force her to marry this guy... tell me whether this event will create some ripples or not.

Here is one thought I have: if she is destined for someone else, it will happen, regardless of whether I try tantra or not (meaning the tantra won't work or her marriage will get settled with someone else just when I start the tantra). Am I right or wrong?

If she's is destined for me, then, maybe that's why I want to marry her, maybe that's why she has been able to get married for the past 4 years,
maybe tantra is one method I need to make the marriage happen.

Now, let's assume that what I said in the last 2 paragraphs is not correct and I still do tantra on her and let's say we get married. Let us say that I've created bad karma by doing so. What I would like to know is the way(s) to wash off the bad karma in this birth itself?

As I mentioned in my last post, most people (who've advised me not to go ahead with it cuz it will create bad karma for next several births) have given their opinions. To be brutally honest, I need the truth, not opinions.

Also, people have commited crimes, murders and heinous acts before they turned spiritual and attained salvation. And, I'm talking about marrying a girl and spending the rest of my life with her and taking care of her; and, people take up cudgels against me. How do you justify that?

That's where learned people like Sri Ravindran and Bhairo have provided answers, with justification. When taking a neutral stance, people should be able to support what they say, with facts.

Otherwise, this forum will be just another medium to throw opinions and personal beliefs & values at each other, in the guise of truth.

I've posted my issue on these forums, not because I cannot proceed with tantra, but to understand the effects, if any, of karma I may or may not create. Also, as Sri Ravindran has rightly understood, I feel guilty that I'm having to resort to such method. I know, you might say "if you feel guilty, then don't do it."

Again, as I mentioned in earlier posts, the thought of giving up on this person is so deflating. It is my quest to wash off any bad karma that my actions may/may not create, that has made me pose these questions.

So, kindly, if you can, provide the answers in detail; I'll be more than glad to know them.

Thank You.

ravikishore · 07-25-2008, 11:15 AM

Dear Ravindran Sir,

Just to provide you some more info: he said we need to collect the soil from her house. So, we went to her house and luckily it was locked. He told me to drop something on the ground and pick it up. So, I dropped a piece of paper on the soil in front of her gate, rubbed it in soil, picked it up and gave it to him. He said he'll collect some more soil from her house later, if necessary.

Now, could you please let me know if he could know tantra? is there anything in tantra by which you can do take the soil in front of her house and do something? or, is it possible that he knows some technique that we are not aware of? (he did say that his guru (someone by the name of ramachandran or ramachandrachary in tamil nadu) taught a rare white magic to 12 students only and passed away after that)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravindran Kesavan

Dear Ravikishore,
More over I am now sure about the person you are talking about - the one who you think is a tantric. I am sure now that he is not a tantric. He does not have any genune power. You might wonder how I know this. You mentioned elsewhere that he gave a demonstration on telipathy. It is no telipathy.It is a trick - Many good stage magicions are able to do this trick . Even you can do it- with out any telipathy.

ravikishore · 07-25-2008, 03:48 PM

Dear Ravindran Sir,

I also found one more tantric, who said who'll do the tantra for me to get the girl. His has website called www.taantrik.org and www.taantrik.com Do you know if he is genuine or fake?

Thank You.

Kind Regards,
Ravikishore

Ravindran Kesavan · 07-26-2008, 04:12 AM

Dear Ravikishore,
This man you are talking about certainly is not a tantric. Forget him. Sometime I will post you the skaned copy of a portion of a magic(trick) book which gives how to do what he has shown you by the name of telipathy.

My advise now to you is not to seek tantrics. Because you have a conflicts associated with it. You are guilty of employing it. That guilt will never leave you in your life if you do what you are planning to do.

There is a difference between Valmiki and you. In Valkimiki's case, he dint know he was a sinner. He was not having any sence of guilt when he was leading a sinful life. He was doing it ignorantly. When he realised he was wrong he changed himself. God forgave his sins of ignorance.

In your case, you seems to suffer by guilt even when you contemplate your action. That means you have full knowledge that you are doing something wrong. Your strategy, that "let me commit the sin first and then appeal to god for forgiveness" wont work. Isint it? think of it. Are you not trying to fool god by this strategy. God will wipe off your sin only if you commit it out of your innocence not if you plane your strategy like this. Right?

Dont do it. Just leave it to god. God is a grand power than any tantric. Approach him and accept his decision. you will be much more happy that way latter.

There are no genune tantrics available for public like what you and many other innocent people are thinking. This is my position-and is is based on my through reaearch, due to my own interest in tantra.

Regards,
K.Ravindran

Ravindran Kesavan · 07-26-2008, 05:44 AM

Ms Msnamita,

I dont take offence as I understand you. You are angry and I can understand that.

I dont intend to start an argument with you. That is not my intention.
But let me briefly respond to your last post to clear the confusion it could cause in the minds of concerned people and neutral reader.

Ramakrishna 'married', sure. But there was no sex - he was a celibate. No beastly project Procreation. Hence it was not a marriage at all. Two people were hanging around there together. There is no sin in that sort of relationship.

As to Lord Siva or any other god for that matter, having wife and children and fighting wars and all that kind of stuff, - do you really believe all this nonsence? Is god like us mortals having needs and problems. They are myths - mytological stories ( I call it cock and bull stories). They are not to be taken literally -they are symbolic. Philosophical principles are contained in them. If you take literal meaning to mythology it leads to absurdities. Thinking of krishna as really having married to somany wifes and all that - what nonsense! Krishna represent Paramatma - the transcentantal soul. All jevas (souls) - many many in number - are the gopikas. All jeevatmas are the parteners - wifes of - paramatma this is the philosophic esoteric meaning behind Krishna's story. What I am saying is explictely stated in the same mythological stories - in the tatva( philosophy) section of every mythology.

There is no contradiction in what I say and do. When I ask Ravikishore to go and try out, I am saying this with absolute conviction that he will not succeed because there are no tantrics out there in the streets. This was my position in the case of the previous friend with his sister's problem . I am consistent. Where is the contradiction?

Well, you may ask why then I am not saying this straight to Ravikishore. If I say this he will not listern. He will think that I dont know. He will any way try what he is contemplating to do. And he will have to learn himself that people are cheating him. No one's advice will work on this.

In my last posting to him I have made it explicit.

If you have any counter evidence to this - If you think that there are genunely powerful tantrics hanging around in the streets of culcutta -or anywhere for that matter - please provide their identities. Many , including me are looking for them. ( when I am saying this , I am not contradicting I am throwing a chalange by this. I am absolutely sure you cannot provide them because there are non over there. )

But I dont think your problem with my posting is anything to do with tantra.
By all probability, it is likly to be something to do with my attitude towards life you happened to pick up from the post. I guess your anger is with that stance. ( I could be wrong on this you could be still a suporerstious average person having all sorts of misconceptions gatered by cock and bull stories and strtreet tantric images, and your problem could be solely with tantra). If you introspect the roots of your anger you will have much more clarity on this.

I dont intedded to give advice or analysis on you. I know unsolicited advise and analysis is not wanted and perhaps provake more anger .
But If I dont say these minimum things - you will do more harm to people out of your own ignorance of the issues involved. If your anger has nothing to do with tantra but cetrtain personal traits and positions of mine which you happen to dislike then it is better that is adderssed straight, rather than confusing ravikishore and others. Self awareness is a good virtue.

Once again my appologies if I have caused any turmoil by any of my postings in your mind.

Regards,

K.Ravindran

ravikishore · 07-26-2008, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravindran Kesavan

you seems to suffer by guilt even when you contemplate your action. That means you have full knowledge that you are doing something wrong. Your strategy, that "let me commit the sin first and then appeal to god for forgiveness" wont work. Isint it? think of it. Are you not trying to fool god by this strategy. God will wipe off your sin only if you commit it out of your innocence not if you plane your strategy like this. Right?

Dear Ravindran Sir,

Thank you for your comments and advice. It sure helps to gain insight. What I'm curious though is about another point you raised - am I committing a sin here? If I get what I desire through some person (let's not call him tantric anymore) who can do the job for me through some technique (it could be tantra or some other thing, since we don't know),
is that a sin?

The intention is never to fool god. I consider god as my mother. And, I never intend to fool my mother. For instance, when I pray to goddess Durga, I ask her to fulfill my desire the same way I would ask my biological mother. I address her as amma, just as I call my mother and use the same, simple language, word-for-word. And, my understanding is that a mother forgives her child, regardless of whether the child makes a mistake with full knowledge or ignorantly.

That said, now do you feel your statement that "let me commit the sin first and then appeal to god for forgiveness won't work" is still holds, given my explanation above.

Ravindran Kesavan · 07-28-2008, 12:41 AM

Dear Ravikishore,

I know you are desperare to fullfill your desire, and you will do anything to get it. There is guilt in you for certain and that is why you are seeking advise to resolve the gilt. My advise in this kind of situation is simple. Do not do anything which involve guilt. It will never let you live a peaceful life. Even when you seems to be peaceful mostly, it will come back at time of misery at time of your sickness and at your time of death. It will claim you badly. So dont do anything whith a guilt feeling. Your present struggle is this only. You are trying to ward of your guilt, so that you can go ahead with action But once entered your mind guilt will never leave, even if some one assures you there is no sin. Because that is someone's else assurance. Not your own conviction. (If you are convinced you will not seek advise).

My second advise to you is that people who claim power and advetise are not the really powerful ones. They cannot solve your problem. Truely powerful peoplre are extreemly rare, and they keep their knowledge to themselves - not advertise it, not sell it. There is no point in trying to solve your problem with a 'professional tantric'. True tantrics are supposed to keep their knowledge as well as their idendity a secret. It is a law in tantric discipline. A genune tantric is never known to the world.

Of course you can get the information, mantra and procedures from books. Many who claim that they are tantrics are of this veriety. They have picked up from books and are making a business out of that. It will not work. One needsa siddha guru for genune power. The knowledge should come from the original Sva who is the first guru in unbroken lineage. If this is not the case, there is no siddhi. And if this is the case, the receiver of this wisdom is supposed to keep it a secreat, only to be revealed to a worthy deciple at the time of initiation. No one else would know such a tantric guru. And such a siddha will not use knowledge commercially.

The only posibility of your gaining any advantage of such tantrac siddha, is by luck you happen to meet one of them, which is extreemly rare chance - lesser than the probability of your winning a huge sum by lottery- and that siddha by just mercy, decide to solve your problem. In that case the siddha will do it free not taking anything from you in turn.

What I am saying is not just an opinion. I have solid basis for what I say. Both tantric texts and my own personal experience support what I am saying.

Hence my sinsire advise is dont waste your time money in seeking tantric's healp. You only will be cheeted and frustrated. Turn to god and pray and leave it to god's decision.

But I know this advise will not be nice and sweet. You will try your best inspite of this and learn by your own experience. However, I thought it is fair enough to state what I wanted to state without any ambiguity at this point of time.

Take life easy. Success or failure both are good -failure is much better even. As the sufis put it: " Do love . If you succeed well and good you got your beloverd. If you fail well and good you become a saint. ( you get god as your beloverd).

Regard,
K.Ravindran

Ravindran Kesavan · 07-28-2008, 06:23 AM

Dear Ravikishore,

I have the scaned document in PDF format of the Telepathic tric (How to exactly know what someone has written in a slip of paper). But I am unable to upload this material in to this forum. The upload action fails. In case you want to have a look at it, I can send youi by email . That is if you are particular to know about it. Otherwise you can forget it. It is just a clever trick.

Regards,
K.Ravindran