environment

01-18-2000, 05:57 PM

it seems to me that cow protection is earth protection in that the earth takes
the form of the cow.

are we making the effort to contact the environmental groups that have a lot
more resources to explain how the happiness of the cow and bull is reflected
upon human society?

if we are, who is making the presentation? what is the content, format, and
tone of the presentation? whom are we approaching?

if we are not, i suggest that we start. when we have such a brilliant solution
to humanity's perpetual suffering, it's nice to share.

rpd

01-18-2000, 07:03 PM

"WWW: Ram Prasad (Dasa) (?)" wrote:

> [Text 2941359 from COM]
>
> it seems to me that cow protection is earth protection in that the earth
takes
> the form of the cow.
>
> are we making the effort to contact the environmental groups that have a lot
> more resources to explain how the happiness of the cow and bull is reflected
> upon human society?
>
> if we are, who is making the presentation? what is the content, format, and
> tone of the presentation? whom are we approaching?
>
> if we are not, i suggest that we start. when we have such a brilliant
solution
> to humanity's perpetual suffering, it's nice to share.
>
> rpd

Hare Krsna dasi comments:

Certainly this is a nice sentiment. Possibly the ones to make the presentation
might be the Ministry of Cow Protection and Agriculture.

The problem as I see it is this: I don't believe -- please correct me if I am
wrong -- that the Ministry of Cow Protection and Agriculture is in a position
to
be confident that ISKCON plans to give official backing to the practice of cow
protection beyond mere lip service.

In March 1999, the GBC very nicely passed ISKCON Law 507 which provides for
minimum standards worldwide for cow protection on ISKCON's farms. Those
standards
were formulated by a year of hard work by ISKCON cowherds around the world,
facilitated by Mother Chaya and Balabhadra Prabhu of the Ministry of Cow
Protection and Agriculture.

Those standards, if conscientiously applied around the world, would insure that
ISKCON is carrying out the practice of cow protection in a way which would be
in
harmony with Srila Prabhupada's teachings to us.

Most unfortunately, however -- and again, please correct me if I am mistaken
about
this -- the GBC has done almost zero in the way of seeing that ISKCON Law 507
is
actually being carried out. I say "almost zero." The fact is that in a few
instances, GBC members have taken some action to help bring certain farms
towards
compliance with the standards.

A cornerstone of the minimum standards for cow protection is that the GBC must
fulfill its duty of making sure ISKCON's standards are fulfilled in all temples
around the world. Srila Prabhupada stated that the GBC should travel from
temple
to temple and if there is some discrepency, they must make suggestions and see
that things are brought up to standard.

In particular, the GBC are specifically required by the standards to make a
quarterly visit to each farm, inspect the cow and ox facilities, have a private
one-hour meeting with the cowherds, and file a report. For 3 meetings of the
year, the GBC is given the option of appointing an outside monitor to fulfill
this
duty -- but at the very minimum, the GBC must personally visit each farm,
inspect
the cow and ox facilities (including the records), and have a private one-hour
meeting with the cowherds.

As far as I know -- correct me if I am wrong -- not one single GBC member has
had
one single private one hour meeting with the cowherds, etc. In other to comply
with the law, they all must do so by April 1st, which will mark the beginning
of
the second year that the law is in effect.

As it happens, on many farms there are various discrepencies, but if the
cowherd
cannot gain the personal, private audience of the GBC, then there is little
chance
to correct different discrepencies.

Therefore, our programs are generally less than ideal, and in some cases there
have been substantial indications that cows have been abused or even
slaughtered.

Under such conditions, who will want to call the public's attention to our
programs? There may be certain individual programs that look pretty good at
the
moment, but without that personal visit by the GBC, actually not one single one
of
them is even up to the standard required by ISKCON law.

It's a very embarassing situation, and one which makes it look that all our
talk
about the importance of cow protection is pretty much hypocrisy. Please do not
misunderstand. Without a doubt there may be dozens of sincere and hardworking
cowherds and ox teamsters around the world, working as hard as they can to
protect
Krsna's cows. But, they are pretty much doing it on their own volition and out
of
their own *personal* dedication to Srila Prabhupada. They are not effectively
given institutional support by the GBC - as evidenced by the apparent
phenomenon
that the GBC does not bother to fulfill its portion of ISKCON's duties to
protect
the cows.

Under such circumstances, it is very, very awkward to invite the public to look
at
our cow protection, when it seems pretty clear that ISKCON -- as an institution
--
is not prepared to do much to back up the practice of cow protection. Even the
Ministry of Cow Protection and Agriculture itself is completely unfunded in
ISKCON. It does not recieve one single dollar from the GBC. So, it's pretty
clear that cow protection is one of the GBC's very lowest priorities. I am
sorry
to be cynical, but realistically speaking, I would not be too surprised if the
GBC
simply phases out the Ministry of Cow Protection and Agriculture. Hopefully
this
will not happen, but I certainly would not be very surprised.

So, how can we preach the glories of cow protection to the outside world, if
even
we as an institution are not willing to make a substantial commitment to it?

Just imagine if you wanted to preach how important it is to worship the Lord in
His Deity form. You are telling everyone that by a nice program of Deity
worship,
you can actually purify your material senses and feel yourself making spiritual
advancement. Maybe you have even preached like this to a friend. Then you
take
them to your temple, and they can see the practical example of what you a
preaching. Even if your temple is not very opulent, they see that the pujari
is
punctual and clean and that the altar is clean with fresh flowers for the
Deity.
They see that Radha and Krsna are very beautifully dressed. They smell the
nice
incense being offered to the Deities. And they can feel the palpable effects.
What you say is in fact true. They can feel that they are making spiritual
advancement.

But, now think of it another way. What if your temple was very neglected and
the
devotees there did not maintain the Deity worship program very nicely at all.
What if the pujari was likely to show up late or intoxicated. What if the
Deities
were wearing the same dusty clothes They had been dressed in 3 months ago.
What
if there were dried up, withering flowers in Their vases?

Then would you want to bring your friend to the temple to show him the
spiritual
benefits of Deity worship?

Unfortunately, without tangible, practical support from the GBC, this is the
situation that much of ISKCON is in with regards to cow protection. So in
general, we don't want to invite the public in to look at what we are doing,
because the GBC is not practically in support of it.

********************

So, I have made some fairly strong statements here, based on my perception and
my
observation, but also I want to say that I am not an official in this regard.
Therefore, some of the things I say may not be totally acurate. That's why I
hope
that I will be corrected in the instances in which I am mistaken.

On the other hand, by virtue of the fact that I do not hold any official
position
in ISKCON, it is a little easier for me to give a very frank and
straightforward
presentation of the situation to the best of my understanding. Once I have
started the conversation, it may be much easier for others to address some of
these issues.

*********************

So, I hope I have not dissappointed you. Basically, your idea is a very good
one. But, unfortunately, until the brahmanas who are leading ISKCON make cow
protection and the following of ISKCON law a priority -- I'm afraid that at the
moment it would not be a very productive idea for us to preach to loudly about
the
benefits of cow protection. It will merely be brushed off as hypocrisy.

your servant,

Hare Krsna dasi

01-18-2000, 08:29 PM

>[Text 2941359 from COM]
>
>it seems to me that cow protection is earth protection in that the earth
>takes
>the form of the cow.
>
>are we making the effort to contact the environmental groups that have a
>lot
>more resources to explain how the happiness of the cow and bull is
>reflected
>upon human society?
>
>if we are, who is making the presentation?

I don't know if its been thought of yet, but the booklet, Dung is Gold Mine
is EXCELLENT to "explain how the happiness of the cow and bull is reflected
upon human society" Chockers full of statistics how cow slaughter has led to
intense human suffering, and degradation of the environment, and society.
Practically all ills can be traced back to it. Its a brilliant expose, we
should broadly propagate.
- niscala

__________________________________________________ ____
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

01-18-2000, 09:25 PM

Dung is Gold Mine is currently under construction for posting on the ISCOWP
web site at www.iscowp.com

Hopefully eraly next week.

ys
Gary

On 18 Jan 2000, Noelene Hawkins wrote:
> I don't know if its been thought of yet, but the booklet, Dung is Gold Mine
> is EXCELLENT to "explain how the happiness of the cow and bull is reflected
> upon human society" Chockers full of statistics how cow slaughter has led to

> intense human suffering, and degradation of the environment, and society.

01-18-2000, 11:31 PM

"WWW: Ram Prasad (Dasa) (?)" wrote:

> [Text 2941359 from COM]
>
> it seems to me that cow protection is earth protection in that the earth
takes
> the form of the cow.
>
> are we making the effort to contact the environmental groups that have a lot
> more resources to explain how the happiness of the cow and bull is reflected
> upon human society?
>
> if we are, who is making the presentation? what is the content, format, and
> tone of the presentation? whom are we approaching?
>
> if we are not, i suggest that we start. when we have such a brilliant
solution
> to humanity's perpetual suffering, it's nice to share.
>
> rpd

I share your conclusion. How to do so is the challenge. The problem is we
aren't
living up to our standards, and have failed so miserably in the execution in
so
many projects.

01-20-2000, 02:54 AM

Dear Hare Krishna Dasi:

You amaze me. So brilliant yet you can't see your own light. In the complete
darkness of cow slaughter, you are a very bright woman.

"Krishna can not be satisfied where cow protection is lacking."--Srila
Prabhupada.

We are all captivated by flickering lights exactly as a doe is frightened by
the headlights of an oncoming car. In our bewilderment, the machinations of
Kali-yuga are gearing up for our slaughter.

The fate of the cow and our fate are one. If some leaders think not, then they
are not the cowherd boys whom I trust to take me home out of this horrible
slaughterhouse.

Your articles have inspired me. Now I'm an inspired city boy. I understand the
principle of cow protection--of mercy, and I want some.

I also understand exploitation--as I have eaten the earthen cow before it was
transformed into food. If we as a society continue to exploit the daughters
and not care for the mothers, then will we not be karmically bound? GBC man:
"We distributed 4 billion books." Krishna: "Did you protect any cows?" GBC
man: "No." Krishna: "Not one?" GBC man: "Well, not in my zone." Krishna: "I
guess they didn't read Srila Prabhupada's books." GBC man: "We told 'em not to
worry about the cow, that the only instructions that they had to follow were
1. the GBC is the ultimate managing authority and 2. distribute books, give
the money to the BBT, and don't ask what happens to it and 3. there's no need
to improve on anything that Shrila Prabhupada set up.

Uh oh, I'm being negative. Of course, the greatest negative is death, and
that's what the cows are facing, and that's what we're facing. Here's my
challenge: "I will not eat dairy products from any cows that aren't
protected."

Several years ago, His Holiness B.H. Mangal Maharaja (before ISKCON disinvited
him to their temples), a lifelong brahmacari (he was 57 at the time), told me
that grains and cheese carry consciousness. I just recalled this fact years
after he made the statement because we don't eat karmi grains--so why should
we eat karmi cheese? Certainly we don't want that karma.

Thank you very much for your noble work in protecting the cow, and I assure
you, it is not for naught. In the right light, cow protection will look good,
and that's what we're selling, cow protection itself, as the cure for karma.

Let's put cow protection in the right light--as you have been doing. Your
articles are excellent, and I'd like to compile some of the information that
you have with some of the information that other devotees have to make a
first-class presentation.

rpd

01-20-2000, 01:29 PM

>
>
> Uh oh, I'm being negative. Of course, the greatest negative is death, and
> that's what the cows are facing, and that's what we're facing. Here's my
> challenge: "I will not eat dairy products from any cows that aren't
> protected."

When you get hungery, come visit NV. There is not enough for eveyone, so I
do
buy karmi milk, but the yoghurt I eat every day comes from a protected cow. I
could introduce you to her. The temple's milk is all from protected cows
(maybe
not during festivals). So you could at least get a taste.

01-20-2000, 07:50 PM

"WWW: Ram Prasad (Dasa) (?)" wrote:

> Dear Hare Krishna Dasi:
>
> You amaze me. So brilliant yet you can't see your own light. In the complete
> darkness of cow slaughter, you are a very bright woman.

Thank you for your very kind comments. If they were honest, Balabhadra and
Chaya
could explain to you that I'm just a bag of wind. Just a wannabe. But, I have
never forgotten those few years of taking care of the cows at Gita-nagari. It
definitely made me a better person. It softened my heart to make me a better
devotee. And, I'm positive that if we could somehow or other build
self-sufficient communities with excellent training for city boys such as
yourself, and also city girls, and with many small-scale, protected farms,
people
would become Krsna conscious very quickly and would very quickly become very
happy
and peaceful.

I have a brain. I now admit that, and I thank Krsna for that. It helps me to
train our son Asto. Wait til you see him in a couple years. He's seventeen
now.
An up-coming ksatriya. So I have to learn all about economics and politics.

BUT-- what if we already had the varnasrama society I'm fighting for. What
could
a woman with a brain do then? I know what I would do. I would have the most
fun
in the world. I'd do what I used to do at Gita-nagari. I'd work with other
women
to help organize great festivals for the Deities, to help plan and devise
beautiful outfits for them. I'd devise gardening and canning plans. And just
for
transcendental pleasure I would take care of Krsna's cows. That would be
great.
I wish we could all live like that.

> "Krishna can not be satisfied where cow protection is lacking."--Srila
> Prabhupada.
>
> We are all captivated by flickering lights exactly as a doe is frightened by
> the headlights of an oncoming car. In our bewilderment, the machinations of
> Kali-yuga are gearing up for our slaughter.
>
> The fate of the cow and our fate are one. If some leaders think not, then
they
> are not the cowherd boys whom I trust to take me home out of this horrible
> slaughterhouse.
>
> Your articles have inspired me. Now I'm an inspired city boy. I understand
the
> principle of cow protection--of mercy, and I want some.

As a mother, I pray that you get it. If you get a chance to care for Krsna's
cows, you will become incredibly happy.

>
> I also understand exploitation--as I have eaten the earthen cow before it was
> transformed into food. If we as a society continue to exploit the daughters
> and not care for the mothers, then will we not be karmically bound? GBC man:
> "We distributed 4 billion books." Krishna: "Did you protect any cows?" GBC
> man: "No." Krishna: "Not one?" GBC man: "Well, not in my zone." Krishna: "I
> guess they didn't read Srila Prabhupada's books." GBC man: "We told 'em not
to
> worry about the cow, that the only instructions that they had to follow were
> 1. the GBC is the ultimate managing authority and 2. distribute books, give
> the money to the BBT, and don't ask what happens to it and 3. there's no need
> to improve on anything that Shrila Prabhupada set up.
>
> Uh oh, I'm being negative. Of course, the greatest negative is death, and
> that's what the cows are facing, and that's what we're facing. Here's my
> challenge: "I will not eat dairy products from any cows that aren't
> protected."
>
> Several years ago, His Holiness B.H. Mangal Maharaja (before ISKCON
disinvited
> him to their temples), a lifelong brahmacari (he was 57 at the time), told me
> that grains and cheese carry consciousness. I just recalled this fact years
> after he made the statement because we don't eat karmi grains--so why should
> we eat karmi cheese? Certainly we don't want that karma.
>
> Thank you very much for your noble work in protecting the cow, and I assure
> you, it is not for naught. In the right light, cow protection will look good,
> and that's what we're selling, cow protection itself, as the cure for karma.
>
> Let's put cow protection in the right light--as you have been doing. Your
> articles are excellent, and I'd like to compile some of the information that
> you have with some of the information that other devotees have to make a
> first-class presentation.
>
> rpd

Again, thanks for your appreciation. Appreciation from other devotees is such
an
important thing for all of us. It's really one of the most important thing
that
keeps us plowing on with our devotional service. When a devotee encourages us
in
our service, that devotee becomes special because Krsna has agreed to speak
through him.

So, you thank me, and I thank you. We have to all keep pushing on in this
struggle. It will be all for the best for everyone, even our oft-maligned GBC
officers. As I keep reminding myself. They are after all devotees, too. And
they
need Krsna's mercy too. I just wish they knew that they would find it when
they
meet with Krsna's cowherds.

your servant,

Hare Krsna dasi

01-20-2000, 10:12 PM

Thanks for the invitation, Prabhu. Maybe when I get a bit more upwardly
mobile, I'll journey there. I guess it would be fanatical to hope for a
bullock cart ride.

rpd

01-21-2000, 12:30 AM

Or better yet come to New Talavan where there is so much milk only people
who don't understand the purpose of life drink karmic milk.

YS
Dvibhuja das
-----Original Message-----
From: COM: Madhava Gosh (das) ACBSP (New Vrindavan - USA)

To: ramprasad (AT) com (DOT) org ; COM: Cow (Protection and related
issues)
Date: Thursday, January 20, 2000 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: environment

>[Text 2947056 from COM]
>
>>
>>
>> Uh oh, I'm being negative. Of course, the greatest negative is death, and
>> that's what the cows are facing, and that's what we're facing. Here's my
>> challenge: "I will not eat dairy products from any cows that aren't
>> protected."
>
>When you get hungery, come visit NV. There is not enough for eveyone, so
I
>do
>buy karmi milk, but the yoghurt I eat every day comes from a protected
cow. I
>could introduce you to her. The temple's milk is all from protected cows
>(maybe
>not during festivals). So you could at least get a taste.
>
>
>
>
>

01-21-2000, 10:30 PM

"WWW: Ram Prasad (Dasa) (?)" wrote:

> [Text 2947335 from COM]
>
> Thanks for the invitation, Prabhu. Maybe when I get a bit more upwardly
> mobile, I'll journey there. I guess it would be fanatical to hope for a
> bullock cart ride.
>
> rpd

I bicycled from Grand Forks North Dakota to Daytona Beach Florida. It only
took 30 days. Where are you located?