On 01 Jun 1999, Hare Krsna dasi wrote:

> Hare Krsna dasi comments:
>
> These are some nice questions. To me, varnasrama appears to synthesize
several
> principles:



I will not argue any of Mother Hare Krsna's views on varnasrama-dharma as she
wrote in this text. Her entire text is positive and in direct pursuance of
Srila Prabhupada's desire to recognize and implement varnasrama-dharma within
the society of devotees and the greater society as well - para upakara. Thank
you for the delightful text, Mataji!

This type of discussion and writing should be the priority business of
brahmanas everyday. Especially the leaders of ISKCON, who were given this
charge over 25 years ago, should take a lesson from Hare Krsna devi dasi in
extending this varnasrama-dharma teaching throughout the movement in EVERY
center, EVERY day, to EVERY devotee.

This kind of writing and discussion educates and increases the consciousness
of daiva varnasrama and will gradually lead to a complete curriculum of
varnasrama training.

I find it highly doubtful that the leaders of this movement cannot elaborate
fully on the details of this varnasrama program of Srila Prabhupada if they
were to devote a priority of their time studying it and legislating toward
this most auspicious and satisfying preaching.
Mother Hare Krsna has done an excellent job at introducing basic fundamentals
of the program and yet she has so many other domestic duties which her varna
has engaged her in. Surely the sannyasis and other leaders could find more
time to devote at least as much effort toward this most important duty as
ordered by their guru way back in 1974!

Many of the men should feel shamed that this woman is fulfilling her own
duties and at the same time doing more of their duties than they are doing for
themselves!


A few other comments I would like to make about the text, if I may:

> Presently, as he has explained to us in the past, Janesvara prabhu takes
care
> of
> some security arrangements for an employer. But his employer is not a
devotee.


While I have had employers, much of my career has been providing real property
administration services through my own companies to clients who own large real
estate developments such as malls and office buildings. The properties are
like small villages unto themselves; some of the properties have over 2000
daily employees in them and I would suspect many of them are devotees of God
to one degree or another depending upon ones perspective. They are definitely
producing goods and services which devotees of ISKCON have utilized and
depended upon for years. Their needs for which I provided management are the
same as any other human beings on a daily basis, devotees or otherwise, i.e.,
restrooms, food, utilities, security, shelter, fair trade, employment,
maintenance, etc., etc.


> For myself, I do secretarial work for a professor, but she is not a devotee
> either. For either Janesvara or myself to use our occupations to serve the
> Lord, the main way that we can do it is by karma-yoga.


I am in agreement with this but I think some additional scriptural references
would be helpful to elaborate on the idea:

In my opinion, for a devotee, karma-yoga is the same thing as bhakti-yoga.

"The life and dedication of Maharaja Prithu in the transcendental loving
service of the Supreme Personality of Godhead serve as a good example of
karma-yoga." Srimad Bhagavatam 4.22.51

"Service for the cause of the Lord is called karma-yoga or buddhi-yoga, or in
plain words, devotional service to the Lord." Bhagavad-gita 2.51

"This Fifth Chapter is a practical explanation of Krsna consciousness,
generally known as karma-yoga." Bhagavad-gita 5.29.

"There are many impediments, especially in this age of hypocrisy, to
practicing hatha-yoga, dhyana-yoga, and jnana-yoga, but there is no such
problem in executing karma-yoga or bhakti-yoga." Bhagavad-gita 6.20-23.


>When we get paid, we
> can
> offer some money to further the mission of Krsna consciousness. Ideally, we
> remember Krsna as much as we can while we are working, but the fact that the
> work we are doing for our livelyhoods does not directly support the spread
of
> Krsna consciousness has a dampening effect on our Krsna consciousness.


While I would much prefer to be practicing and performing my duty directly in
the society of varnasrama-dharma devotees I am not the director of the
material nature and thus I will do my duty as the will of Providence has
directed. There is no need for anyone to give up their duty as they were
destined to perform; it is a matter of change of heart alone. Bhismadeva was
on the "wrong" side though a pure devotee. One of my worshipful deities, Sri
Vivasvan Hiranmaya, whom I worship with prayers and obeisances every morning,
performs his duty perfectly with no dampening effect on his pure devotion
though he sheds his merciful heat and light on demon and devotee pursuits
equally.


I DO NOT disagree with Mataji, but I think it wise to keep things clear lest
the oft-ISKCON-practiced "give up distasteful duties and pretend I am a
brahmana" consciousness will continue to erode the varna society.


"One should not imitate another's duty. A man who is by nature attracted to
the kind of work done by sudras should not artificially claim himself to be a
brahmana, although he may be born into a brahmana family. In this way, one
should work according to his own nature; no work is abominable, if performed
in the service of the Supreme Lord.
The occupational duty of a brahmana is certainly in the mode of goodness,
but if a person is not by nature in the mode of goodness, he should not
imitate the occupational duty of a brahmana. For a ksatriya or administrator,
there are so many abominable things; a ksatriya has to be violent to kill his
enemies, and sometimes a ksatriya has to tell lies for the sake of diplomacy.
Such violence and duplicity accompany political affairs, but a ksatriya is not
supposed to give up his occupational duty and try to perform the duties of a
brahmana." Bg. 18.47


"Foul means of livelihood means deviation from one's occupational duty. There
are prescribed duties for everyone, such the brahmana, ksatriya, vaishya and
sudra, but anyone of them who deviates from his prescribed duty and declares
another's duty to be his own is following a foul and improper duty." S.B.
1.14.3.

"For a ksatriya, a military man, shooting arrows at the enemy is considered
transcendental, and refraining from such a duty is demoniac... Anyone who
performs the regulated principles of the different orders of life is
transcendentally situated." Bg. 16.5.

"The conclusion is that even if one is busy executing his occupational duty,
his business in Krsna consciousness need not be hampered. He has simply to
execute the devotional service of sravanam, kirtanam - hearing, chanting, and
remembering. One need not abandon his occupational duties, but if we try to
satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead by our duties, then our lives will
be perfected." Srimad Bhagavatam 4.24.72



>
> How would it be different in a varnasrama society? In a varnasrama society,
we
> would both be serving devotees and what's more we would be serving them in
ways
> that were more tangibly linked to maintaining a Krsna conscious society.



This would be wonderful and preferred. However, we must also bear in mind that
not all will be so fortunate to live within a varnasrama society. And yet they
will be able to practice their sva-dharma just as perfectly as others.


I would hope the above would only enhance and expand a little on Mother Hare
Krsna's already excellent text.


Again, thank you Mataji. These are the type of texts I live for.


Sincerely,

your servant,

Janesvara dasa