--- In achintya@y..., "krishna_susarla" <krishna_susarla@h...> wrote:

>> This was some years ago. I seem to recall that the NC Math people
addressed this very quote, and said that it was obviously a statement
of humility on the part of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura -- in the same
sense that one who advances in devotion becomes conscious of his
insignificance, so also was the Thakura accusing himself of all sorts
of sinful activities. It was not meant to be taken as a biographical
fact. <<

I do not wish to commit offence to any Vaishnavas regardless of their
position on spiritual affairs, etc., but I'm afraid that I am not
inclined to have faith in this opinion. My reason for that is as
follows: If it was a statement of humility on Srila Bhaktivinoda's
part, then it is most likely that he would have written such in
poetic style as in many of his song-scriptures. OK, so we may accept
the fact that thiis is prose as it was written in the form of a
letter to his son, but this seems to have no devotional sentiments.

Let's take a look at a sample verse from 'Gopinath':

"O Gopinatha, Lord of the gopis, please hear my request. I am a
wicked materialist, always addicted to worldly desires, and no good
qualities do I possess." [Gopinath 1.1]

It's a beautiful song and one of my favourites. There are
similar "repentances" in the rest of the song at http://www.esoteric-
teaching.org/music/gopinath_lyrics.htm . It is obvious that such a
statement is a indication of intense humility as Srila Bhaktivinoda
is praying to Krishna for His mercy. Later on in the song, he
describes such "worldly desires" as being wealth, wife, sons and
lust. No extensive description. Yet in the Sva-likhita Jivani, Srila
Bhaktivinoda speaks about meat-eating in a detailed manner: "I had
known that killing animals was bad for a long time, but I had a
strong desire to enjoy fish and meat...I ate a lot of fish in Chapra,
but it was not very good. Therefore, I ate more goat meat. After the
prolonged eating of food of this kind combined with red chillies and
mustard seed pickle, I developed a bleeding ulcer...I automatically
suffered from vomiting and diarrhea for 10 to 17 hours."
What is humble about this? Srila Bhaktivinoda is describing supposed
meat-eating and his medical condition in a letter to his son. On the
external surface, this has nothing to do with humility or devotion.

I would not like to commit offences to Vaishnavas, especially to such
a great mahajana like Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura who pioneered the
program to preach Krishna Consciousness in English, neither do I
approve of or tend to think of Acharyas in a mundane way. I was most
disturbed to see this "evidence" and I was even more mortified to see
that this was seemingly from the very pen of Srila Bhaktivinoda.
That's why I started this topic in the hope that anyone could clarify
this situation for me. The reasoning of "this was a humble statement
and not a biographical fact" does not seem to apply here since the
whole text is veritably an autobiography of Srila Bhaktivinoda and
written by him. It does not seem to be adequate proof that he did
*not* eat meat. The rest of the text describes the events of his
life.

I wish that somebody who knew the truth could explain this in a
satisfactory manner.

>> This particular school, with whose members I have clashed the
proverbial swords with in the past, has some very particular views
regarding varnaashrama, paramparaa, and shaastra which are not really
mainstream Gaudiiya Vaishnavism...Rather I think, that if members
feel willing, we can certainly take apart many of their viewpoints
and analyze them according to guru, saadhu, and shaastra. <<

Good idea.

I had a look at the introduction of that site, and I have also been
informed by a "casual observer" that the site is the work of a
certain 'raga' who is a follower of Pandit Ananta das Babaji, who is
supposedly coming in the line of Srila Raghunatha das Goswami. The
description of the exact line seems to be rather complicated with
mentions of Srimati Jahnava Thakurani (am I right in thinking this
was the wife of Nityananda Prabhu?).

I have also read hints on discussion boards that this Ananta das
Babaji somehow confirmed to a prospective disciple that the Gaudiya
Math lineage was not bona fide. By using the words 'Gaudiya Math' I
assume he means ISKCON also, since these people seem to unnecessarily
contest the authority of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura too.

So perhaps we can discuss that, as well as the other issues?

>> The website of at least one member of this opposing party is
www.bhajankutir.net. Be forewarned that its author isn't shy about
criticizing Srila Prabhupada, ISKCON, or other Gaudiiya Vaishnavas in
our line. <<

I have stumbled upon his site before while looking for online
directions to an online tol, and I found his "essays" in a different
part of his website. I've briefly read some of his stuff and I also
came across more of it after visiting the link that you posted to the
IndiaDivine forum. I always tried to understand some of his
objections as being part of the "empowered reforms" that were
characteristic of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta. After viewing a little of
the IndiaDivine discussion (not read all of it yet) it seems that
even his points can be criticised. Shall we discuss some of these
essays here too?

But after all, I fail to see how this is relevant to the question of
Srila Bhaktivinoda's supposed meat-eating.

Jay.

P.S. I am feeling very bad writing in this way. I think I desperately
need a satisfactory answer regarding this issue. Therefore I am
asking the community of devotees.