Here in the US, I would say it is pretty much a common assumption that you either must believe in science or religion, you cannot believe in both; religion and science must be antagonistic to each other. But I know of many religious Hindu scientists.

How do you think this is so? In America scientists regularly assure us we have no use of religion, in fact it's harmful, that they can explain everything we are, believe, and do with science. How is it in India? How do you think Hinduism and science get along so well? I do not like to think I am some material automaton, controlled by my brain chemicals!

Einstein was telling that little science take you far of god, and many science brings you closer to him.

That means that when you start to understand some physics law, you think everything is understandable with science theory.
But actually, when you go further in science, you can see that you cannot find out other physics law because it is too difficult. And when difficulties arrive, people usually need hope, so then they need God.

well the answer as to why it is so lies in the history of western lands !!

christianity was the main religion in the west and consequently the culture and values were all shaped by that religion there . the opposition that the church showed towards any free thinking liberal thoughts and scientific progress is well known . many of their philosophies were strange and insufficient to a prudent individual but one had to accept it without raising any question . to this were added the problems of bruning at stake and other vices . and most importantly not all leaders were very pious men . all this slwoly created a feeling of hatred and isolation from mainstream religion or christianity . and chruch succeeded in projecting itself as a tyrant , anti-science anti-modernisation hypocritic order . natuarally most westerners have lost faith over their old religion .

in india things were a bit different . although numerous contradictory thoughts and sects existed in this soil no one tried to destroy the other . there was mutual coexistence in all feilds . and this accomodating universal nature of hindus are well known. thus when modern western science first appeared on the horizon of india there was an attempt to synthesize it with the existing indian philosophical systems instead of condemmning it . recently modern physics have also discovered the strange similarities between the indian spiritual philosophies and this has further strengthened the conviction of hindus both on science and religion .

Might as well call yourself a bundle of flesh and nerve and nothing more than animal if you believe that crap.

God which cannot be explained through Science MUST be thrown away.

i feel god is not something or someone that can ever be explained by science in scientific terms . about a decade back stephen hawkings claimed that he is about to formulate something which he called the theory of everything(if i remember correctly) which shall be one single mathematical euqation applicable to all aspects of physics and solving all problems !! to discover such a master-equation would be almost discovering god !! infact the exact words that hawkings used were "reading the mind of god" !! but then a few years back he finally concluded that it is not possible for him to formulate any such things nor it is likely that it shall ever be .

god can never be reached through science because what we call scientific proof is basically related to observation by any or all of our five material(and imperfect) sense organs . and god is concentrated consciousness . it is not possible to reach to chit(consciousness) through jada(material) .

so it is very natural that god cannot be explained by science . if it was possible then i would start doubting that god on whether it was god at all .

so are you trying to suggest that god is percievable through our gross imperfect material senses by following the processes of experimentaion , observation and inference ??!!

Science is making progress only due to divine blessing. So ignore them and be religious scientists.

God bless you
Rishi Vatsyayan

Science brings sometimes answers
God brings allways hope

Respected members,

God is the amalgamation of truth-knowledge and bliss. Any man-discovered truths or "sciences" cannot be equal to the knowledge god has. The dispenser of knowledge for the benefit of mankind is god. Whatever achievements man has now is all from god as the precursor of thoughts in man to analyze, discover and experiment ,that gives birth to "science",was and is being planted by god.

Religion is metaphysical, and it is beyond the comprehension of laymen. Only the very blessed in this present birth get to know god....the amalgamation of truth-knowledge-bliss. Namaste.

Hi Sambya,
- don't you think that the accomodation of numerous contradictory as you said is only in reality an unablelity of being consistent ?

-In western countries, there is the same inconsistency: on one hand science, on the other hand religion. But people are free to believe in both. And actually, they often do without condemning religion as you said. Otherwise catholicism would disapear, wouldn't it ?
-They believe in both because as I said earlier science brings sometime answers and god brings allways hope. But indian are same :
An example : somebody has cancer. What would you do ? See a doctor and pray. It is same in western countries.


Could you please precise with examples please ?

its true that people are free to believe either science or religion . infact anyone is free to beilieve anything he wishes to believe . and most people do not actually condemn religion . but it is a fact that a vast majority of modern western people hardly have any faith or interest in their original religion - christianity that is . christianity has not dissapeared .....thats true . numerically it is the most influential faith . but how many people actually practise christianity in the west ? for many people church serves a few purpose-marraige and funeral service !! this practising christianity is dying in west .

but in the east religion is no less than science , if not higher . all eastern religions are alive and most hindus are everyday practising hindus . that was the difference i was trying to show .


this is not something to illustrate with a few sentences . basically science have discovered or hypothised about the similarities between advitist thoughts and concepts of creation and cosmos and modern astrophysics . there are numerous books available on that matter . the one that i can immideately remember is the tao of physics . it was an international bestseller . try reading those books and im sure you will get your answers in a much better way than what i would be capable of explaining to you !!

pranaam .

How about E= mc square(How Do i type a 2 in upper part?)
Everything is energy.

OHter things includiing the above one which baba had said for example-
Jyotish vidya is a complete science ,vastu vidya
Then there are certain things which iv read such as mudras whos benefciial Properties have been known,There was a yagya done by pandits shown on tv to call the rains.And they were succesful.

The important aspect here is TRY IT not DONE IT. Don't understand? I will explain.

An action of TRYING to explain God (through our imperfect senses) is more valuable than actually doing it. By trying to explain God, one can achieve knowledge which one cannot achieve in any other ways.

The Europe were in Dark Ages because everyone accepted "God" is like what the Bible have stated. So, they blind follow it and willing to stone, kill and burnt alive anyone who stated otherwise. In their minds, they have already achieved an understanding of God (and even today, Christians still fools themselves into thinking that God is like what their Bible stated).

At the same time in India, Scientists and learned ones tried to understand God and they know that it is impossible to do so. Yet they continue to do - learning new things, examine and reexamine them and try to piece together how the World and the Universe works. Their actions have created a large reservoir of Knowledge which no one else could have possibly achieved at that age.

The Goal in Science should be TRY to Find God (even so it is impossible to do so). Because in God, all things resides and by trying to find Him, you will find all sort of Knowledge which you did not know existed.

not exactly . by trying to explain god one comes to know his various attributes and features as explained in scriptures and other religions . but one cannot arrive at 'knowledge' of god through that . for knowing god personally one must have a strong desire to know him or love him coupled with sincere sadhana .............there's no other way . infact explantions and endless talks destroy the calmness of mind !



but your last post didnt clarify your stand properly . you said that God which cannot be explained through Science MUST be thrown away . now that means only that much of god must be accepted as is materially 'proven' by science . which in turn means that gods validity is subject to scientific 'proofs' !!!

is that what you actually meant ?

jyotish means astrology and vidya means knowledge.
vaastu shastra
- Vastu Shastra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
mudras-http://www.healthandyoga.com/HTML/meditation/mudras.html

sambya :

Wrong ... the Knowledge which one obtains through studies of His Attributes and Features IS KNOWLEDGE.

Knowledge itself cannot help one arrive to God, but one MUST change that Knowledge into Wisdom before he or she could understand God.

Take Evolution for example. 150 years ago, people in India could not know what Evolution (like West came to know) means. Yet by studying the Attributes as shown in Maha Vishnu's Avatar, one could able to derive this knowledge in theory.

Therefore, God which (attributes) cannot be explained by Science should be thrown away.

Yes, even Gods must be subjected to Examinations and Studies in order to understand them (even so we cannot understand them completely).

If you believe that Gods exist, then why not try and proof them? What do you have to fear?

Science in India was much more advanced than the west in the other Yugas. It is only only in Kaeli Yuga, the present metal age, the Vedic Knowledge is degrading and this was predicted in the Vedas long back. I beleive the Avatars of Vishnu are REAL and they are not just for the purpose of learning about evolution. According to Vedic knowledge we are in Kaeli Yuga, which lasts 432,000 years. The avatars of Maha Vishnu has taken place throughout these Yugas. Man did actually exist for millions of years, but the Western ideas forbid it. Refer to this


What my understanding of this is, the theory of evolution of man rising from the water and becoming more and more human, being analogical to the avatars of Vishnu seems to be incorrect.

Of course Hinduism itself is based on Vedas, which means absolute knowledge. The original pure Hinduism beleived in Knowledge rather than hard work. According to these sanskrit words,

Avidyaaya Mruthyum Theerthwaa
Vidyaaya Amruthamasnuthe

Use the scientific knowledge to tackle problems in our life and use the spiritual knowledge to attain immortality through philosophical outlook.

For example by using astrology, we can get ourselves detatched from material lives, because our method of astrology is based purely upon the position of the planets and Karmic patterns unlike the fake western astrology. Using astrology we can ascertain our Karma in the material life and choose our reactions to the events in our lives in a favourable way to avoid bad Karma and bad situations in our next life since according to Hinduism the soul is eternal, and that is what "immortality" implies in the above quote.

The Hinduism what we see today is truncated due to the influence of Bhuddism, Christianity, Islam etc, where prefence is given to materialistic faiths. Today people only hope to use astrology for material gains and fool themselves. Other religions do not insist on the eternal nature of soul as much as Hinduism does. In fact there was no other religion for millions of years in the past and so Hinduism itself is not a Religion. Astrology is pure knowedge,using the position of the planets and how old is it? While the West was fooling themselves with the fact that the earth was flat and the sun revolves around it.

Not to mention zero and modern numbers actually originated from India.

There is more knowledge in the Vedas than any other science can teach.

there might have been a communication problem here . i used the word knowledge in the sense of wisdom - and that is the standard meaning of the word in indian spiritual scriptures . you were using knowledge in the sense of book reading .

what i was saying is that mere book reading and dry speculation will do nothing to get you the wisdom ....... you need sadhana and devotion for that . do you disagree ?

modern science doesnt believe in personal god - one who has a anthropomorphic form , but our scriptures repeatedly speaks of such god . do you deny such gods merely because science does not accept them ?

what examination do you suggest ? something involving radar detection , telescope and similar instruments ? please elaborate

tell me .....do you really think it is possible to 'prove' god to the entire population using material science ?!!

i have nothing to fear........ill be the happiest if you suceed doing that , but sadly our own scriptures indicate that it is not possible !

sambya :

I disagree because what you say in both paragraphs actually conflicting with each other.

I could agree that Wisdom could only obtained by devotions (and Spiritualism); however, right now, I'm more toward limiting my use of Knowledge on sense of book reading.

You seems to think that Knowledge should only be used for "Spiritualism". If that is the case, I will disagree with you. I believe that Knowledge which derived from Spiritualism MUST be used in Worldly manners as well. One should not separate Knowledge and Wisdom from Worldly and Spiritual World.

Mind explaining what do you mean by "Modern Science" here? What do you consider as "Modern Science"?

YES, it is possible to derive a working model of God using Material Science. It will not show 100% accurate "descriptions" of God, but it should validate some of His Attributes enough to fit the puzzle called God.

Then THROW AWAY your Scriptures.

okay

there is spiritual knowledge which is also the knowledge of god( i mean wisdom) . apart from that there is material knowledge . both the knowledges are beneficial to mankind and i see no reason why knowledge of one field could be applied to the other . but for any individual spiritual knowledge stands at a higher position than material knowledge . a human birth without knowledge of god is considered worthless . so a person having material knowledge and denying spiritual knowledge is not worthwhile . but this of course is from the viewpoint of spiritual scriptures .


the normal science that began in middle ages and continues till this day and taught in schools and universities . includes different fields of science and still unproven but popular hypothesis like worm hole or multiverse .

why ? what was so difficult in understanding the term 'moden science' ?



thats good !! i wish it could happen fast ! but supposse that some attributes described in the scriptures cannot be found out by science even after lot of research . now would that mean those attributes are non existent , in your understanding ?!!