Ok, to summarize what you said :
- you repeated three times that I was a drunkard LOL. One time was enough. Seems you have difficulties to say briefly things LOL.
- Spiritualism need discipline and self control.

To answer your notices :

First : Drinking once a week for example doesn't make of you a drunkard. I don't get surprised you say this because you never drunk I suppose and I am sure you talk of someting you don't know. In that case, in my opinion, people should not talk LOL.

Second : Spiritualism need discipline and self control. I totally agree, and this is what I do. Only, I have my fashion to do. I feel good with that. You have yours, you feel good with yours. I don't criticize.

Third : What about if a medicine contains alcohol ? Would you say that you will never authorize it because it contains alcohol and would prefer risk the life of somebody that is closed to you ?

I totally agree with you. And this is what I am trying to do

i dont understand what you are trying to suggest when you say hinduism and buddhism are obsolete .

well , people labell some individuals as god mainly due to many complex reasons and im not going into those details now . but personally i believe that the message taught by those elevated individuals are far more important than worshipping them as gods . this is because their very advent(if they are gods) is to educate the ignorant . its more imporatant to follow their teachings than create a lavish temple for them . but their is also no harm if someone worships them with utmost sincerity after obeying to his revealed path ! and i also agree with you that the power to liberate oneself lies entirely on your own self .

but you did not understand the real message that i wanted to convey . when i said avatar or divine beings i was reffering to those rare individuals who are seen once in a while in history . but for the majority of people getting liberated without following any rituals is practically impossible . if you beg to differ show me some examples where you saw such an individual !!

thats because they are often left with no better answer when they are made to confront some questioning individual with an inquisitive mind . it is an escape psychology by scaring the opponent .

i do not drink because i dont like drinking . neither is it supported by scriptures nor did i like it at any point of time .

yes , all those activities that you have reffered also clouds your mind . so in the final stages one has to transcend hunger and sleep . but thats the last stage . and these activities are indispensible and are basic requirements . either you die or you continue doing these . but that is definately not the case with drinking alcohol . that is a voluntary activity and its power to cloud the mind is thousand times stronger than that of ordinary thirst or hunger . so a spiritual aspirant should begin by discarding those habits that can be done away with .

also most of the mental agitation and cloudiness can be attributed to ourselves . think of a situation when you are infatuated for any other person . the power to cloud and agitate the mind is tremendous !! thing of greed for money , lust , thirst for power , love towards pets etc etc . these are all created by man and have much much more power than hunger or sleeping . when you analyze you shall see that it is self induced attachments that disturb the mind more . the natural agitators are highly insignificant .

Ok I think I understand what you mean concerning alcohol and 'self induced attachements'. But I have doubt concerning some of your interpretation.
Concerning self induced attachements, I totally agree with your point of view. I think even this argument is still true for all external factor (for example somebody who makes you feel angry, but you must stay cool). In this last case it is called 'stoicism'
Now what I disagree is that alcohol must not be seen as the devil sign. It must be a pleasure like dancing, singing, laughing.
Plus, i am sure there is a no ha restriction in any scriptures.. Is it ?
Anyway, i respect your way of life.. If you feel good with it.

Arjun ji,

Rituals or any religious activities in Hinduism has its own significance. Sometimes, people that are inquisitive to know the underlying significance of any rituals tend to ask the wrong kind of people. This leads to confusion and many more. So I suggest, if you have some questions about some ritual, ask any reputed swamis or people that are well-versed in what they are doing.

I just feel sorry for people who finds rituals restricting their freedom. How misinformed and confused they are, may god help them soon. What progress does this so-called craving for freedom people get in terms of making a positive mark on their spiritual side? Only time gets wasted for futile things...

People often forget why they are born, they prioritize things that won't help them to gain anything to attain liberation. In every birth there is death. We would never know when our time is up. So...it is wise to use the time we have wisely, to get the right information from the right people and embark on our spiritual journey. Namaste.

Even Sadhana can become a mere ritual if you are not careful. You might have seen people with Japa malas in a bag reciting the mantras mechanically with eyes open. They will be looking at people who are around them and also listening to their conversation.

Here Japa becomes a mere ritual. Bhakthi is to be combined with Shraddha.

Samskaras are the main rituals of the Hindus.

The line between faith and superstition is a very fine one. The general rule applied by most people is "What I believe is faith. What you believe is Superstition."

arjun2826 :

Hmph ... you cannot understand why I have called you a drunkard, did you?


What you have is Self-Excuse. Nothing more. You have no discipline and you will NOT progress in Spiritualism. All you could ever be is a fellow who uses excuses to remain in an ignorant state. That is all you will ever be.

Your drinking habits have NOTHING to do with Medicine. It is merely another excuse for a drunkard to drink.


You are fooling yourself and busy trying to fool others with your excuses. THAT is what you're doing.

I know only one - Gautama Buddha. He have rejected most of rituals which associated with Hindusm at his time and he had become Liberated.

That example is good enough for me.

no its not a devil sign or something like that !! in fact ancient hindus frequently used alcoholic beverages like soma and sura in celbrations and even in rituals !

it is definately a pleasure item ! but from a purely spiritual point of view pleasure items are the one that distracts and clouds the mind most ..........so for a spiritual aspirant such things are strictly forbidden , one who is not so inclined towards spirituality can definately carry on with his drinking !!

So speaks the Drunkards.

now , i think you have understood what i originally meant . one example in recorded history !!! do you think that it is very practical to do away with rituals for ordinary aspirants ? true, buddha said that anyone can become a buddha but the question remains how many did become a buddha in 4000 years ?

Do you think that being a Buddha means that a person have to dress like the Buddha, speak and walk around like the Teacher (Gautama Buddha)? If that is your understand of Buddha, I will say that you are sadly mistaken.

Being a Buddha means being liberated from Rebirth. And that could only be achieve AT THE MOMENT OF DEATH.

Which means in the past 2,500 years (since Gautama Buddha), there could be countless Buddhas who followed His ways and liberate themselves. However, they do not stay on this World after Liberation.

This is because a person who have become Buddha (liberated) can still fall back into the Cycle of Birth and Death if he sway from the Truth even for a moment. It will take an exception Man with a great and compassionate heart to allow himself to remain on this Planet to help others and at the same time, risk falling back into the Cycle again.

The first is Gautama Buddha, the next shall be Maitreya Buddha.

Is there any swamis on this website ? :-)

And even in some state in india, they don't even know what superstition is. Consequently everything is faith, everything is asked by God...

Mmmmhh.. seems really you have problem to say briefly things LOL... It's the fourth time you repeat the same thing. Did you drink or are you normal ? ;-)...

How do you know I will not progress in spirtualism. Can you say you progressed more than me ?


It is the fifth time you repeat I am a drunkard.. LOL
Please don't try to bring confusion and answer my previous question : Imagine for medical needs you have to take alcohol or morphine for example. Will you refuse because it is the "Evil's sign" as you said ? or will you accept ?
I know you cannot answer : if you refused and remain consistent with what you said, you risk your health, and if you accept, you won't be consistent with what you wrote earlier... This is the dilemma of giving such no sense answers .. ;-)


I think you are not able to go deeply in some topics. Maybe you get scared of it (and I can understand), maybe you never tried it, so consequentely, you speak of things you don't know, you accuse other, and repeat 5 times the same sentence LOL... So it is funny, and you lose credibility.
Maybe you should try to understand the topic, the problem, and try to build an credible argument.
Drinking a lot makes of people drunkard
But drinking sometimes doesn't mean this. But maybe if you didn't understand my writting, you will certainely feel the need to say a sixth time that I am a drunkard .. LOL
Please try to not make me laugh once more ;-)

7th time you repeat the same thing
Don't loose credibility little sephiroth .. ;-)

Ok, I understand your answer and like it.
Could you please tell me what you called spirituality ? Is it faith ? is it practicing rituals ?

Arjun Ji,

I do not know, but why not? There might be swamis here. There are many well-learned people, be it academically and/or spiritually, here in this very forum.

Sometimes even a beggar on the street can impart valuable wisdom. Knowledge though vast, it fails to make the learned noticeable through the naked eyes. Namaste.