PrinceGoutham and Bhaktajan, official thread

[Amlesh]

Originally Posted by RadheyRadhey108 And Lord Sri Rama worshipped Lord Shiva. He is immersed in Shiva Bhakti. I'm not seeing how this proves anything. Vishnu worships Shiva, Shiva worships Vishnu. That doesn't make either one of them a demigod.

Sri Ram came hear to set examplary acts as a Human Being, consequently he had to adhere with the Vedic Rules and give respect to all the entities according to his\her status.

Valmiki, Vishwamitra, Janaka, Dashrath... all knew about His Supremacy... but when Sri Ram offered respect to them, they simply smiled and felt themselves blessed knowing to what extent the Supreme can love his Devotees.

[RadheyRadhey108]

Originally Posted by Amlesh Bhaktajan has spoken the Truth, anything other than Hari is endless rambling.

What truth has he spoken? And, what is your proof that it is truth?
He says that Shaivas and Shaktas are not bhaktas and equates their devotion to Shiva with that of a whore's devotion to sex and drugs. He says that any god other than Krishna is a demigod and the only reason why people worship them is because they are selfish. Surely you don't believe such dribble?

[RadheyRadhey108]

Originally Posted by Amlesh Sri Ram came hear to set examplary acts as a Human Being, consequently he had to adhere with the Vedic Rules and give respect to all the entities according to his\her status. Valmiki, Vishwamitra, Janaka, Dashrath... all knew about His Supremacy... but when Sri Ram offered respect to them, they simply smiled and felt themselves blessed knowing to what extent the Supreme can love his Devotees.

Why, if it is wrong to worship Lord Shiva, did Lord Rama set the example by doing so? He is the embodiment of Dharma. Why would He do something so "adharmic"?

[Amlesh]

Originally Posted by RadheyRadhey108 Why, if it is wrong to worship Lord Shiva, did Lord Rama set the example by doing so? He is the embodiment of Dharma. Why would He do something so "adharmic"?

I've never said that it's wrong in Worshipping Shiva.
I do it myself every Monday at the nearest Shivalaya from my place.

I was refering about the Supremacy.

But you should ask, what I demand at Lord Shivas Lotus Feet?

[Amlesh]

Dear friends that was my last post concerning the Supremacy Issue...

I no longer wish to jump and dance like a monkey when I see the banana topic of Supremacy.

[RadheyRadhey108]

Originally Posted by Amlesh I've never said that it's wrong in Worshipping Shiva. I do it myself every Monday at the nearest Shivalaya from my place. I was refering about the Supremacy. But you should ask, what I demand at Lord Shivas Lotus Feet?

You said that Bhaktajan was right in his opinions and ramblings. Bhaktajan thinks it's wrong to worship Shiva and that you can't express bhakti to Shiva. Don't say you agree with someone if you don't know what they're actually saying.

[RadheyRadhey108]

Originally Posted by Amlesh Dear friends that was my last post concerning the Supremacy Issue... I no longer wish to jump and dance like a monkey when I see the banana topic of Supremacy.

Is that because there's no proof for either one being supreme over the other?

[bhaktajan]

I do not think it is wrong to worship Shiva!

Shiva has approx 84% [86%?] of same potencies as the Supreme Personality of Godhead Sri Narayan/Vishnu/Krishna.

***You may worship any one or anything and make an idol of any ista-deva or Pop-culture-Icon, but, it will not yield moksha/mukti/liberation/salvation/deliverance to the 'Kingdom of God'.

What ever attributes you may apply to Lord Shiva's Mystic Opulences, I remind you that all Residences of Vaikuntha are worshipable too.

For example, Sudhama, Krishna's childhood Gopa friend in the transcendental cowherd village of Vraja-Vrindavana-Goloka-Dhama is lightyears beyond all the Devas.

Yet you purport to say that a Devata is the aim of the MYSTERY OF LIFE.

You must keep you faith as it is regardless of nay sayers for we are encouraged by Krishna's many re-assuring words***:

***This is what Krishna refers to when Krishna speaks in the Gita 3.26:
"So as not to disrupt the minds of ignorant men attached to the fruitive results of prescribed duties, a learned person should not induce them to stop work. Rather, by working in the spirit of devotion, he should engage them in all sorts of activities [for the gradual development of Krishna Consciousness]".

and,

Gita 3.29:
"Bewildered by the modes of material nature, the ignorant fully engage themselves in material activities and become attached. But the wise should not unsettle them, although these duties are inferior due to the performers’ lack of knowledge."
.................................................. .............................
These verses are Krishna's Teachings as to those who do not yet know the conclusion of the Vedas, 'Devotion to the Supreme Personality of Godhead Sri Narayan/Vishnu/Krishna'

.................................................. ..................
Again I repeat, that the Devas are an extended family-tree
delineated in The Srimad-Bhagavatam, and,
that once that Family-tree is charted-out,
all the Puaranas, etc., can be hung like Christmas-tree Decorations,
thus, plotting the chronological order of the appearence of the names of the Family-tree Personalities and, ipso facto,
the order in which each Purana debuts
in the time-line of history
that started with Brahma's
Birth & each of Brahma's Daily awakenings.

[RadhaMukunda]

Shiva has approx 84% [86%?] of same potencies as the Supreme Personality of Godhead Sri Narayan/Vishnu/Krishna.

I heard from my guru who got it from shastra that came from brahma that it is actually 85.96584423651575236848929448554545545269856475315 89988555441414753699922254589632554477419658442365 15752368489294485545455452698564753158998855544141 47536999222545896325544774196584423651575236848929 44855454554526985647531589988555441414753699922254 58963255447741965844236515752368489294485545455452 69856475315899885554414147536999222545896325544774 19658442365157523684892944855454554526985647531589 98855544141475369992225458963255447741965844236515 75236848929448554545545269856475315899885554414147 53699922254589632554477419658442365157523684892944 85545455452698564753158998855544141475369992225458 96325544774196584423651575236848929448554545545269 85647531589988555441414753699922254589632554477419 65844236515752368489294485545455452698564753158998 85554414147536999222545896325544774196584423651575 23684892944855454554526985647531589988555441414753 69992225458963255447741965844236515752368489294485 54545545269856475315899885554414147536999222545896 32554477419658442365157523684892944855454554526985 64753158998855544141475369992225458963255447741965 84423651575236848929448554545545269856475315899885 55441414753699922254589632554477419658442365157523 68489294485545455452698564753158998855544141475369 99222545896325544774196584423651575236848929448554 54554526985647531589988555441414753699922254589632 55447741965844236515752368489294485545455452698564 75315899885554414147536999222545896325544774196584 42365157523684892944855454554526985647531589988555 44141475369992225458963255447741965844236515752368 48929448554545545269856475315899885554414147536999 22254589632554477419658442365157523684892944855454 55452698564753158998855544141475369992225458963255 44774196584423651575236848929448554545545269856475 31589988555441414753699922254589632554477419658442 36515752368489294485545455452698564753158998855544 14147536999222545896325544774196584423651575236848 92944855454554526985647531589988555441414753699922 25458963255447741965844236515752368489294485545455 45269856475315899885554414147536999222545896325544 77419658442365157523684892944855454554526985647531 58998855544141475369992225458963255447741965844236 51575236848929448554545545269856475315899885554414 14753699922254589632554477419658442365157523684892 94485545455452698564753158998855544141475369992225 45896325544774196584423651575236848929448554545545 26985647531589988555441414753699922254589632554477 41965844236515752368489294485545455452698564753158 99885554414147536999222545896325544774196584423651 57523684892944855454554526985647531589988555441414 75369992225458963255447741965844236515752368489294 48554545545269856475315899885554414147536999222545 89632554477419658442365157523684892944855454554526 98564753158998855544141475369992225458963255447741 96584423651575236848929448554545545269856475315899 88555441414753699922254589632554477419658442365157 52368489294485545455452698564753158998855544141475 36999222545896325544774196584423651575236848929448 55454554526985647531589988555441414753699922254589 63255447741965844236515752368489294485545455452698 56475315899885554414147536999222545896325544774196 58442365157523684892944855454554526985647531589988 55544141475369992225458963255447741965844236515752 36848929448554545545269856475315899885554414147536 99922254589632554477419658442365157523684892944855 45455452698564753158998855544141475369992225458963 25544774196584423651575236848929448554545545269856 47531589988555441414753699922254589632554477419658 44236515752368489294485545455452698564753158998855 54414147536999222545896325544774196584423651575236 84892944855454554526985647531589988555441414753699 92225458963255447741965844236515752368489294485545 45545269856475315899885554414147536999222545896325 54477419658442365157523684892944855454554526985647 53158998855544141475369992225458963255447741965844 23651575236848929448554545545269856475315899885554 41414753699922254589632554477419658442365157523684 89294485545455452698564753158998855544141475369992 22545896325544774196584423651575236848929448554545 54526985647531589988555441414753699922254589632554 47741965844236515752368489294485545455452698564753 15899885554414147536999222545896325544774196584423 65157523684892944855454554526985647531589988555441 41475369992225458963255447741965844236515752368489 29448554545545269856475315899885554414147536999222 54589632554477419658442365157523684892944855454554 52698564753158998855544141475369992225458963255447 74196584423651575236848929448554545545269856475315 89988555441414753699922254589632554477419658442365 15752368489294485545455452698564753158998855544141 47536999222545896325544774196584423651575236848929 44855454554526985647531589988555441414753699922254 58963255447741965844236515752368489294485545455452 69856475315899885554414147536999222545896325544774 19658442365157523684892944855454554526985647531589 98855544141475369992225458963255447741965844236515 75236848929448554545545269856475315899885554414147 53699922254589632554477419658442365157523684892944 85545455452698564753158998855544141475369992225458 96325544774196584423651575236848929448554545545269 85647531589988555441414753699922254589632554477419 65844236515752368489294485545455452698564753158998 85554414147536999222545896325544774196584423651575 23684892944855454554526985647531589988555441414753 69992225458963255447741965844236515752368489294485 54545545269856475315899885554414147536999222545896 32554477419658442365157523684892944855454554526985 64753158998855544141475369992225458963255447741965 84423651575236848929448554545545269856475315899885 55441414753699922254589632554477419658442365157523 68489294485545455452698564753158998855544141475369 99222545896325544774196584423651575236848929448554 54554526985647531589988555441414753699922254589632 55447741%

[bhaktajan]

Look face the truth!

You don't know OUR Sastra.

Apparently, We don't know YOUR Sastra.

So lets agree that we belong to different schools of thought.

IOW, If you don't know my sastric references then I shouldn't be quoting them to you.

################################################## #####

-- SOUND EFFECT: Locomotive Cargo Train screeching to a halt. --

################################################## #####

Actually you stumbled on to something Profound!

The endless finite sub-dividing direction that you sought to illustrate may actually ring true as correct.

Shiva's approx 86% Potency of Full-Godhead-ship certainly falls short of the Supreme Personality of Godhead's 1,001% Potency-in-full.

The Supreme Personality of Godhead's 1,001% Potency-in-full opulence extends outward toward the "Infinite" to fill the spiritual and material skys;

whereas,

Lord Shiva's Potency can/could/is free to reach almost full opulences in the opposite direction toward the "Finite". No?

Hmmmm? See what happens when you earnestly debate to the point of exhaustion? Or is it just me?
.

[RadhaMukunda]

I am just making fun, I told you that I had no interest in arguing with you.

[bhaktajan]

Wait a second there Buster ji,

Wasn't it I who first said, "I had no interest in arguing with you"?

Are you quoting me now to make you points?

[RadheyRadhey108]

Originally Posted by bhaktajan I do not think it is wrong to worship Shiva! Shiva has approx 84% [86%?] of same potencies as the Supreme Personality of Godhead Sri Narayan/Vishnu/Krishna. ***You may worship any one or anything and make an idol of any ista-deva or Pop-culture-Icon, but, it will not yield moksha/mukti/liberation/salvation/deliverance to the 'Kingdom of God'. What ever attributes you may apply to Lord Shiva's Mystic Opulences, I remind you that all Residences of Vaikuntha are worshipable too. For example, Sudhama, Krishna's childhood Gopa friend in the transcendental cowherd village of Vraja-Vrindavana-Goloka-Dhama is lightyears beyond all the Devas. Yet you purport to say that a Devata is the aim of the MYSTERY OF LIFE. You must keep you faith as it is regardless of nay sayers for we are encouraged by Krishna's many re-assuring words***: ***This is what Krishna refers to when Krishna speaks in the Gita 3.26: "So as not to disrupt the minds of ignorant men attached to the fruitive results of prescribed duties, a learned person should not induce them to stop work. Rather, by working in the spirit of devotion, he should engage them in all sorts of activities [for the gradual development of Krishna Consciousness]". and, Gita 3.29: "Bewildered by the modes of material nature, the ignorant fully engage themselves in material activities and become attached. But the wise should not unsettle them, although these duties are inferior due to the performers’ lack of knowledge." .................................................. ............................. These verses are Krishna's Teachings as to those who do not yet know the conclusion of the Vedas, 'Devotion to the Supreme Personality of Godhead Sri Narayan/Vishnu/Krishna' .................................................. .................. Again I repeat, that the Devas are an extended family-tree delineated in The Srimad-Bhagavatam, and, that once that Family-tree is charted-out, all the Puaranas, etc., can be hung like Christmas-tree Decorations, thus, plotting the chronological order of the appearence of the names of the Family-tree Personalities and, ipso facto, the order in which each Purana debuts in the time-line of history that started with Brahma's Birth & each of Brahma's Daily awakenings.

Where in the Gita does Sri Krishna say, "If you worship Shiva, you don't get Moksha." ???

[RadheyRadhey108]

Originally Posted by bhaktajan IOW, If you don't know my sastric references then I shouldn't be quoting them to you.

LOL, you're only saying that b/c you have no shastric evidence for your bigoted opinions. If you did, you'd give us quotes from the Puranas, the Gita, the Vedas, and the Upanishads to support your opinion. However, none of them support it, so you can't prove it.

[RadheyRadhey108]

Originally Posted by RadhaMukunda I heard from my guru who got it from shastra that came from brahma that it is actually 85.96584423651575236848929448554545545269856475315 89988555441414753699922254589632554477419658442365 15752368489294485545455452698564753158998855544141 47536999222545896325544774196584423651575236848929 44855454554526985647531589988555441414753699922254 58963255447741965844236515752368489294485545455452 69856475315899885554414147536999222545896325544774 19658442365157523684892944855454554526985647531589 98855544141475369992225458963255447741965844236515 75236848929448554545545269856475315899885554414147 53699922254589632554477419658442365157523684892944 85545455452698564753158998855544141475369992225458 96325544774196584423651575236848929448554545545269 85647531589988555441414753699922254589632554477419 65844236515752368489294485545455452698564753158998 85554414147536999222545896325544774196584423651575 23684892944855454554526985647531589988555441414753 69992225458963255447741965844236515752368489294485 54545545269856475315899885554414147536999222545896 32554477419658442365157523684892944855454554526985 64753158998855544141475369992225458963255447741965 84423651575236848929448554545545269856475315899885 55441414753699922254589632554477419658442365157523 68489294485545455452698564753158998855544141475369 99222545896325544774196584423651575236848929448554 54554526985647531589988555441414753699922254589632 55447741965844236515752368489294485545455452698564 75315899885554414147536999222545896325544774196584 42365157523684892944855454554526985647531589988555 44141475369992225458963255447741965844236515752368 48929448554545545269856475315899885554414147536999 22254589632554477419658442365157523684892944855454 55452698564753158998855544141475369992225458963255 44774196584423651575236848929448554545545269856475 31589988555441414753699922254589632554477419658442 36515752368489294485545455452698564753158998855544 14147536999222545896325544774196584423651575236848 92944855454554526985647531589988555441414753699922 25458963255447741965844236515752368489294485545455 45269856475315899885554414147536999222545896325544 77419658442365157523684892944855454554526985647531 589988