Does the hindus actually...

[Lynet]

...for real belief in the mythology of hinduism?



(my english is bad (I read it better) so I just let the post be short )

[Avinash]

Some believe, some do not believe at all, some say that some part is historically correct but there have been later day interpolations and some say that the stories were never intended to be taken as facts but to teach some morales.

[bhaktajan]

Yes "Real, Orthdox, devout Hindus" believe in their own Scripitures as translated from the original sanskrit by the best of the best yoga scholars that, thank god, outlived all the conquests of the past two millenniums.

Do you follow what I saying?

If not then just remember that your own life story is promted by one or a combo or all of the following driving factors:

--Transcendental promptings, or
--Celestrial promptings, or
--Govenmental promptings, or
--Provincial promptings, or
--Cityhall promptings, or
--Domicile promptings, or
--Intellectual promptings, or
--Physical promptings, or
--Egotistical promptings, or
--Mundane promptings, or
--Petty promptings, or
--Negligible promptings, or
--Un-seen promptings, or
--Time is of the essence promptings, or
--No promptings, or
--Bhakti-yoga aka Devotional Path of Yoga aka Krishna Consciousness.

What do you believe?

[narayanadasa]

How do you prove something (or rather anything) that happened in the past is true? You cant go back in time and see right? Even seeing can be deceiving.. right?

So, if archieology, local practises/customs, local literature and scripture all point to something common we usually take it to be true. Believers dont call it mythology but call it an historical fact.

Some dont accept it, but in my opinion they dont believe in anything else except for what they believe in (if at all they do).

Originally Posted by Lynet ...for real belief in the mythology of hinduism? (my english is bad (I read it better) so I just let the post be short )

[bhaktajan]

A Wise old Indian once taught me the maxim:
"How do you prove something (or rather anything) that happened in the past is true, for example, 'HOW DO YOU KNOW WHO YOUR FATHER REALLY IS?' "

Answer: "Ask your mother" --this Maxim is absolute. If it is not possible that someone can provide such answers, then there is a term that exists: "Les Miserables", which aptly describes the fate of Souls in the material world.

All souls are Prisoners in the prison of the Material world, birth after birth, eating/sleeping/mating/defending with out the benefit of the absolute path toward the one and only "Suprema Personalidad de Dios", aka, Bhagavan Sri Krishna --as He is revealed by the Bhagavad-gita and the Srimad Bhagavatam and indirectly addressed in the impersonal expostions known as the Upanisads --this is the absolute nature of a bonefide Yoga-Guru's teachings: to stop being being a Cartoon personality birth after birth in an objectively real existential cosmos of floating souls with out an absolute port of call. This is the point where Bhakti-yoga must go into effect by way of one's own personal gumption and perserverence.

If you understand what I am talking about please reciprocate by acknowledging my sanity, or be a good chap and tell me otherwise.

[RadheyRadhey108]

Originally Posted by Lynet ...for real belief in the mythology of hinduism?

No, we differ from every other religion in the known world in that none of us actually believe anything written in our own scriptures. We just pretend like we do for fun.

[RadheyRadhey108]

Originally Posted by bhaktajan --Bhakti-yoga aka Devotional Path of Yoga aka Krishna Consciousness.

You do realize that the Bhakti movement exists independent of Vaishnavism and Krishna Consciousness/ISKCON, yes?

[bhaktajan]

Do I realize that the Bhakti movement exists independent of Vaishnavism and Krishna Consciousness/ISKCON? Yeah, i guess so.

Similarly Hindus exists independent of Hinduism too, yes?
or
Capitalism exists independent of America, the Euro, the Mafisos, the Yen and world revolutions, no?

But it is thanks to the spirit of those who went before us, that we'd best to follow, and so, up-hold the greater good.
Ha cha?



PS: waddaya mean? is that what you mean? I mean what do you mean? Well, you know what I mean. Maybe. Ah, what was the question?

[jinglebells]

Originally Posted by bhaktajan A Wise old Indian once taught me the maxim: "How do you prove something (or rather anything) that happened in the past is true, for example, 'HOW DO YOU KNOW WHO YOUR FATHER REALLY IS?' "

DNA test?

[RadheyRadhey108]

Originally Posted by bhaktajan Do I realize that the Bhakti movement exists independent of Vaishnavism and Krishna Consciousness/ISKCON? Yeah, i guess so. Similarly Hindus exists independent of Hinduism too, yes?

How? Do Catholics exist independent of Catholicism? Do Buddhists exist independent of Buddhism? Do Jews exist independent of Judaism? Well, I suppose there are aspects of their lives that don't require their faith, but they wouldn't be Hindus, Catholics, Buddhists, and Jews without Hinduism, Catholicism, Buddhism, and Judaism.
HOWEVER, Bhakti can easily exist completely independent of Vaishnavism. Bhakti can be expressed in Shaktism, Shaivism, etc...
Not to mention that Bhakti has existed for thousands of years before ISKCON. So, they are definitely seperate entities. ISKCON relies on Bhakti. She doesn't rely on ISKCON.

Originally Posted by bhaktajan or Capitalism exists independent of America, the Euro, the Mafisos, the Yen and world revolutions, no?

Does Bhakti exist independently of Shaivism, Shaktism, and Vaishnavism?

Originally Posted by bhaktajan But it is thanks to the spirit of those who went before us, that we'd best to follow, and so, up-hold the greater good. Ha cha?

The Nayanars are just as old as the Alvars... so we don't know who 'took' the bhakti movement from who.

Originally Posted by bhaktajan PS: waddaya mean? is that what you mean? I mean what do you mean? Well, you know what I mean. Maybe. Ah, what was the question?

I was pointing out that there are bhaktas that aren't Vaishnavas. There are Shaiva Bhaktas and Shakta Bhaktas as well.
In your list you put "Bhakti/Krishna Consciousness". But, Bhakti can also be Shakti Consciousness or Shiva Consciousness.
So, the point of all this is that Bhakti IS. She exists independent of every religion, yet She is in every religion.

[bhaktajan]

Originally Posted by jinglebells DNA test?

Yes. But Wrong! Unless your mother were a cheating liar who "cannot be trusted to tell the truth" . . .

I asked: 'HOW TO KNOW WHO YOUR FATHER IS?
I gave the Answer: "Ask your mother" --this Maxim is absolute.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
jinglebells, If it is not possible for you that your mother can provide such answers,

then there is a term that exists: "Les Miserables",
which aptly describes the fate of the majority jinglebell(s) & jinglebellette(s) in the material world.
Not to be confused with the minority of the Beautiful & Rich people along with their store of Good-karma.

----------------------------------------------------------

The above is thee Metaphor for the quest for absolutely true spiritual knowledge. The majaority of worlds populations are not interested in any spiritual quest.

If they are, there are two paths: ulterior motively driven for self-angrandisment; or, selflessly driven service to Godhead.

Hardly one knows in truth the Personality of Godhead--because He is absolute and there is an absolute path that must be followed to get his audience.

[bhaktajan]

{What I think is that it can be claimed that Bhakti exists outside of Krishna-Yoga ----but that is subjective prapaganda. Unless your prayers are done in private quarters.}

------------------------------------------------------------------
Does Bhakti exist independently of Shaivism, Shaktism, and Vaishnavism?
{Bhakti means devotion, that is all. Krishna is 'defacto' setting the standard in the Gita. Thus, Bhakti-yoga is all about the path toward Krishna.}
------------------------------------------------------------------
I was pointing out that there are bhaktas that aren't Vaishnavas.
{Then it should not be called Bhakti-yoga. Use of the word devotion is OK, but Bhaktas are devotees of Krishna. Yes, semantics, but, as it is semantics.}
------------------------------------------------------------------
There are Shaiva Bhaktas and Shakta Bhaktas as well.
{This is a perfect example of semantics --your catagory differs from Krishna's catagorisation, and thus such differences would be listed in a seperate directory of Yoga schools.
I can agree that devotion to Brahmaji's children can be made into a religious entity and that can be called Shaiva-Yoga & Shakta Yoga.
Just as illegitamate Theives are un-arguably also "Buisnessmen" still they are outside the accepted means of commerce.}
------------------------------------------------------------------
In your list you put "Bhakti/Krishna Consciousness".
But, Bhakti can also be Shakti Consciousness or Shiva Consciousness.
{No, I think it is accurately said:
"Yoga"-- can also be Shakti Consciousness or Shiva Consciousness.
Absolute reality is indisputable-- That's what makes the world go round--$$$--all else are opportunists in different guises.

Yes, Swiss bank & money launderers are liberal minded --but unethical and against the common good of the common populace.}

------------------------------------------------------------------
So, the point of all this is that Bhakti IS.
{Bhakti means devotion, that is all.
Krishna is 'defacto' setting the standard in the Gita.
Thus, Bhakti-yoga is all about the path toward Krishna.

NOTE: For metaphors to work, the metaphor must prove absolutely parallel to that which it is compared to, in all regards. I will admit there are exceptions, but only in 'irregular' examples.}
------------------------------------------------------------------
She exists independent of every religion, yet She is in every religion.
{Bhakti means devotion. Obese people are devoted to food.
Drug addicts are devoted to drugs.
Playboy Bunnies are dovoted to their vocation too.

This discussion is an example of "sematics" because it is omitting the other side of the argument (my assertions) namely, the established definition as it is.

Ironically the points of debate you offer me are the same words that I would agree with--yet you've not presupposed to use my logic in addressing my own logic; which, lets face it, is known to you.

If I argue with a Shivite, as to, who is Supreme--the Shivite must know that I am already aware of every bit of the minutia of his arguments.

Ironically, I already am on his side from the start.
Whereas I am trying to pull him from out of the Ocean tides--and he 'fights' with me telling me all sorts of things that are not helpful as I attempt a burdensome rescue of him.
But he says he needs no rescue--and thus I say why are you then screaming out here in the waves?}

PS:
It is actually about "I love you and our mutual brothers & Sisters here in the material world--better than You do."

This is called transcendental competion--a skill that requires absolute expertise.

Someone posted 'death statistics' from the last Century--where were the experts that I am referring to during the dark times of the last century?

Learning how to be a wellwisher in the school of hard knocks,
Bhaktajan

[jinglebells]

Radhey, relax! It's Vaishnavism to deny the supremacy of gods other than Vishnu. Jan is simply doing what his teacher-SP-has taught him to. His style also reflects that, can't blame him.

[HaraHareisOne]

Relax RadheyRadhey108,

Can't you see Mr Bhaktajan is horse with blinkers on. He do not what is bhakti is all about. He is a parrot which repeat whatever SB says. According to Srila Prabhupad, 'Women are Stupid' (Gita as it is) and only in his book is this explanation wriiten, not in any of other Mahatma's book.
If that is true, then the women in his generation are pitiful. Truth is devotion and God reside in any bodies, male or female. Another blunder is - in the Nectar of Devotion - it clearly stated that you should pray to Lord Ganesh first. But our Bhaktajan will argue stupidly and will come with a rdicules excuse.

You are wright, RadheyRadhey108.

[bhaktajan]

Can't you see Mr Bhaktajan is horse with blinkers on.
He do not what is bhakti is all about.
Then you please tell us what you have learned? Not!

He is a parrot which repeat whatever SB says.
Thank you. Sukadeva [speaker of the Bhagavatam] "Parrots" everthing he says.

The bona fide spiritual master, who has also heard the sruti-mantras, or Vedic knowledge, from his undisturbed acarya, never presents anything that is not mentioned in the Vedic literature.

Nowhere in authentic scriptures is it said that one will ultimately reach the same goal by doing anything or worshiping anyone. Such foolish theories are offered by self-made “spiritual masters” who have no connection with the parampara, the bona fide system of disciplic succession.

The bona fide spiritual master cannot say that all paths lead to the same goal and that anyone can attain this goal by his own mode of worship of the demigods or of the Supreme or whatever.

Any common man can very easily understand that a person can reach his destination only when he has purchased a ticket for that destination.

The simple way to worship the Supreme Lord in this age of disturbance is to hear and chant about His great activities.

The mental speculators, however, think that the activities of the Lord are imaginary; therefore they refrain from hearing of them and invent some word jugglery without any substance to divert the attention of the innocent masses of people.

Instead of hearing of the activities of Lord Sri Krsna, such pseudo spiritual masters advertise themselves by inducing their followers to sing about them.

In modern times the number of such pretenders has increased considerably, and it has become a problem for the pure devotees of the Lord to save the masses of people from the unholy propaganda of these pretenders and pseudo incarnations.

The Upaninads indirectly draw our attention to the primeval Lord, Çré Krsna, but the Bhagavad-gita, which is the summary of all the Upaninads, directly points to Sri Krsna.

Therefore one should hear about Sri Krsna as He is by hearing from the Bhagavad-gita or Srimad-Bhagavatam, and in this way one’s mind will gradually be cleansed of all contaminated things.

[bhaktajan]

RE: Sarasvati-devi's [Bharati, Wife of Lord Brahma] mentioned in the Bhagavatam [I had a miss-print] see: (SB 4.15.16, 3.12.27, 3.12.49, 3.12.52, 3.12.57, & 6.18.30)


I still have to find the root source of the word "Bhakti/Bhakta"