Vedas Never Said that - Page 2

11-15-2005, 02:19 AM

(Your also an idiot. Be fooled in your attempts! To understand Krishna. If only you would give up your arrogance to understand scripture. And become humble.)

You are a paragon of humble ness.

(You regular blaspheme our Gurudeva, your a sick. Prabhupada has given more to this world than even Jesus, Mohammed, Sankracharya, etc. The list goes on. You won't admit it [but you know it]. You will find purity in His words, His knowledge is higher than that of Sankracharya [and SP regards Him as an acharya simply because He is an incarnation of Shambu [Bolanatha*].)

So, your Guru is higher than Bholanath? What a Guru to have such a shishya.

(Anyway, i had my rant at your lot, time to let you rot in your own stool. Hare Krishna)

Is he planted by some other sect to malign HK's or are HK's like this only? Self maligning?

Govind Ram seems to be some arrogant male (possibly white) ditched by his girl friend for his foul tongue and so temporarily he is here abusing every body.

11-15-2005, 02:33 AM

A Siva follower creating boundaries such as north and south? I am surprised.

The source of pure CID (Pragnya or consciousness), is that indescribable Shivo -- the refulgent light of Savitri.Pragnya then becomes all.

This is the Shiva in Vedas and Upanishads.

Please do not embrace concepts which are politics laced and are limited to time, even when pushed hard by puerile concepts of HK's. Shiva is above time and above concepts.

bhadramoorthi · 11-16-2005, 05:29 AM

Govindaram said:
"...You just cannot get away from Him can you? Now what's so attractive about Krishna? Maybe ask yourself that question, instead of being an arrogant fool..."

We should be away from those things that prevent our self-realisation goal.

bhadramoorthi · 11-16-2005, 05:42 AM

Firstly, i thank Govindaram for giving me this link.
http://www.krsnabook.com/ch33.html

i quote some of your krishna book here.
These are some of the things i am doubtful about Krishna.
and that made me a Mother Worshipper.

"...............because the gopis wanted to enjoy Krsna, they were given the opportunity to associate with Him for a long period. This was done according to His promise. When Krsna stole the garments of the gopis while they were taking bath at Ciraghata on Yamuna, Krsna promised to fulfill their desire in some future night. In one night, therefore, they enjoyed the company of Krsna as their beloved husband, but that night was not an ordinary night.........The necks of the gopis became tinted with red due to their desire to enjoy Krsna more and more......... They became filled with attraction for Him, and they began to kiss one another. Some gopis touched Krsna cheek to cheek, and Krsna began to offer them chewed betel nuts from His mouth, which they exchanged with great pleasure by kissing. And by accepting those betel nuts, the gopis spiritually advanced.................. The gopis became tired after long singing and dancing. Krsna was dancing beside them, and to alleviate their fatigue they took Sri Krsna's hand and placed it on their raised breasts. Krsna's hand, as well as the breasts of the gopis, are eternally auspicious; therefore when they combined, both of them became spiritually enhanced. The gopis so enjoyed the company of Krsna, the husband of the goddess of fortune, that they forgot that they had any other husband in the world, and upon being embraced by the arms of Krsna and dancing and singing with Him, they forgot everything....................allow a person to enjoy sex with any woman except one's own wife. Krsna's appreciation of the gopis appeared to be distinctly in violation of these rules.................but because Krsna wanted to exhibit the rasa-lila, they also appeared as ordinary human beings. In the material world, pleasure is ultimately manifested in the sex attraction between man and woman. The man lives simply to be attracted by women, and the woman lives simply to be attracted by men. That is the basic principle of material life. As soon as these attractions are combined, people become more and more implicated in material existence.In order to show them special favor, Krsna exhibited this rasa-lila dance.It is just to captivate the conditioned soul. Since they are very much attracted by sexology, they can enjoy the same life with Krsna and thus become liberated from the material condition..........They are addicted to material enjoyment and are accustomed to reading sex literature, but by hearing these transcendental pastimes of Krsna with the gopis, they will be relieved from material contamination..............If one actually hears rasa-lila, he will become completely freed from the lusty desire of sex life and elevated to the highest level of spiritual understanding..........."

It clearly says that Krishna worship is for sex-lovers, which i am not.

Look at another paragraph of the chapter:

"....Another important point is that all the gopis who danced with Krsna were not in their material bodies. They danced with Krsna in their spiritual bodies. All their husbands thought that their wives were sleeping by their sides. The so-called husbands of the gopis were already enamored by the influence of the external energy of Krsna; so by dint of this very energy they could not understand that their wives had gone to dance with Krsna....."

The sect is some kind of sex-worshipping sect, to attain God through sex.
This is completely against the Pati-Vrata Dharma as elevated by Mother Lalithambika, Lopamudra etc.
Any worshipper who adores PathiVratha Dharma would get offended.

bhadramoorthi · 11-16-2005, 06:01 AM

"...Please clarify wht you ean by "fanatic", and "all deities".
List the deities included in your view..."

People appear more dignified in their own login accounts than in guest accounts.

bhadramoorthi · 11-16-2005, 06:17 AM

You chastised govindaram for no use and heard undesirable statements which were meant for me.When they are knowingly included in such a vulgar sect, how can we refine them!

bhadramoorthi · 11-16-2005, 06:37 AM

"...I am sure while your having your cup of coffe, you don't write in this forum?.."

no i dont.
But i am sure you are in some bad company or perhaps in some bad sect.Recover soon.Chant Lalitha Sahasranama daily.

Ganeshprasad · 11-16-2005, 01:30 PM

Jai Ganesh

Pranam bhadramoorthi

I realize your feelings have been hurt by likes of Govidram and you are angry justly so.
We Hindus are our worst enemy sometimes, without knowing the subject matter we jump to wrong conclusion. Have you ever tried to find out at what age this Lila of our Lord took place? Do you know the position of gopis?
Try to read udhav conclusion on this or ask some one like Rameshbhai Oza who is a great Bhagvat scholar
It is great to worship mata don’t let anyone tell you otherwise, but please do not write derogatory things about our lord. Why cut the nose to spite the face.

Jai Shree Krishna

11-17-2005, 10:32 AM

Om Vinayaka Om

Namaskar Ganesh Prasad Ji and Bhadra Moorti Ji.

The story cited by Shri Bhadra Moorthi Ji is great. It is actually the expansion of saint Yajnayalka's teaching to his wife that "All love the Self alone". Though by associating with our bodies we may consider ourselves lusty, but true knowledge will reveal who has the desire and for what?

Bhadramoorti ji's assertion that lusty (and I add egoists) are attracted to some particular form of the SELF, I feel is valid.

Self is all. It has good, it has bad, it has knowledge, it has ignorance. But God is above these.

Because most Vaishnav's love God exoterically, as an external super power in the mold of Amitava Bachan or Rambo, they need to first understand that "ALL IS SELF" and "ALL LOVE THE SELF ONLY" and "SELF IS ONE".

I will be benefitted greatly, if some one explained to me the following Rig Veda verses. I intuitively feel that Indra and Krishna are just two moods of the same Lord.

1.101.01 Offer adoration with oblations to him who is delighted (with praise), who, with R.jis'van, destroyed the pregnant wives of Kr.s.n.a; desirous of protection, we invoke, to become our friend, him, who is the showerer (of benefits), who holds the thunderbolt in his right hand, attended by the Maruts. [R.jis'van was a king and friend of Indra; Kr.s.n.a was an asura, who was slain, together with his wives, that none of his posterity might survive. Kr.s.n.a, the black may be Vr.tra, the black cloud].

1.101.02 We invoke to be our friend, Indra, who is attended by the Maruts; he who, with increasing wrath, slew the mutilated Vr.tra and S'ambara, and the unrighteous Pipru, and who extirpated the unabsorbable S'us.n.a [S'ambara and Pipru are asuras; pipru = avratam, not performing or opposing vratas, religious rites; as'us.am s'us.n.am = the dryer up, i.e. who cannot be absorbed].

Om Namah Shri Vasudevayya
Om Mata Durge Sharanam Namah
Om Namah Sivayya.

Prostrations to the Visvarupa, the Sakti, and the Saktiman being.

11-17-2005, 10:59 AM

*********We Hindus are our worst enemy sometimes, **********

This way our ego is spent out, at least mingled with love of God. I feel God desgined this trick to absorb our ego speedily.

Ganeshprasad · 11-17-2005, 06:20 PM

Jai Ganesh
Pranam Atanu ji

RE
(This way our ego is spent out, at least mingled with love of God. I feel God desgined this trick to absorb our ego speedily.)

it is best to be civil although i do agree every thing happens for the best.

Jai Shree Krishna

Ganeshprasad · 11-17-2005, 08:06 PM

Jai Ganesh
Om Vinayaka Om

Namaskar Atanu ji

Re
(The story cited by Shri Bhadra Moorthi Ji is great.)

Yes it is great if properly understood, context with which it is related by Bhadra ji paints a different story alltogether. We could make the same mistake in relation to lord shiva
SB 8.7.33: Exalted, self-satisfied persons who preach to the entire world think of your lotus feet constantly within their hearts. However, when persons who do not know your austerity see you moving with Umā, they misunderstand you to be lusty, or when they see you wandering in the crematorium they mistakenly think that you are ferocious and envious. Certainly they are shameless. They cannot understand your activities.
So please do not make the same mistake about Lord Krishna.

Re
(It is actually the expansion of saint Yajnayalka's teaching to his wife that "All love the Self alone". Though by associating with our bodies we may consider ourselves lusty, but true knowledge will reveal who has the desire and for what?)

Yes we are all selfish, selfish for that love we all lack, this is the reason for our search.

Re
(Bhadramoorti ji's assertion that lusty (and I add egoists) are attracted to some particular form of the SELF, I feel is valid.)

May be but our definition of love and lust is way out, the love of Gopi is way beyond our imagination, even udhav could not understand this.

Re
(Self is all. It has good, it has bad, it has knowledge, it has ignorance. But God is above these. )

Precisely Lord Krishna is beyond our understanding, we look at our ista and then because others derides our worship we retaliate, it makes us no different to them. Krishna is No ordinary person, or achieved that status of god as some one like to think, he is God because he is god, one does not become god.

Re
(Because most Vaishnav's love God exoterically, as an external super power in the mold of Amitava Bachan or Rambo, they need to first understand that "ALL IS SELF" and "ALL LOVE THE SELF ONLY" and "SELF IS ONE".)

How can you even compare those mortals with the God?
We may never understand the One self that encompass everything just as pearls are strung on a thread.

Prostrations to the Visvarupa, the Sakti, and the Saktiman being.

Jai Shree Krishna

11-18-2005, 09:13 AM

I agree fully.

**********Yes we are all selfish, selfish for that love we all lack, this is the reason for our search.*************

Selfishness is ignorance since we do not know the self. Krishna's hands touching breasts of Gopi is Self prostrating to the Self. We all touch our chest when we think of God.

Prostrations to the Visvarupa, the Sakti that has become Visvarupa, and the Saktiman being who has the Sakti.

Prostrations to the EKO who is also Sarva. Any Ishta Deva worshipped with one pointed keen ness of mind and bhakti will lead to the EKO. Since, as Varuna taught Bhrigu, repeatedly, "Concentration of mind is Brahman".

On the way, we may sometimes fall prey to our preferences.

11-18-2005, 10:10 AM

********Krishna is No ordinary person, or achieved that status of god as some one like to think, he is God because he is god, one does not become god.***********

Yes, no one can become God. God is eternal, so there is no question of something which is not God today becoming God tommorrow.

But, raed the following and please explain.

The gopis became tired after long singing and dancing. Krsna was dancing beside them, and to alleviate their fatigue they took Sri Krsna's hand and placed it on their raised breasts. Krsna's hand, as well as the breasts of the gopis, are eternally auspicious; therefore when they combined, both of them became spiritually enhanced.

Why should both be spiritually enhanced when Krishna's eternally auspiciuos hands touch the equally auspicious breasts of Gopis?

How can enhancement occur, without some lack in the beginning?

There is something about a union somewhere, which most of us are missing. Sankaracharya has taught "Know that Shiva and Vishnu in union is Brahman".

The Visvarupa and the Atma, having one Sakti, together is EKO.

Mata Durge Sharanam Namah. She taught Brahman to Indra. Let Her teach us also. One who is Brahman can only teach Brahman by absorbing the student, and none else, since Brahman is beyond mind and speech.

Brahman cannot be realised by talks or by thoughts but by being fully absorbed and by being that.

11-18-2005, 10:35 AM

Re
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________
(Because most Vaishnav's love God exoterically, as an external super power in the mold of Amitava Bachan or Rambo, they need to first understand that "ALL IS SELF" and "ALL LOVE THE SELF ONLY" and "SELF IS ONE".)

How can you even compare those mortals with the God?
We may never understand the One self that encompass everything just as pearls are strung on a thread.
__________________________________________________ ______________________

I am not comparing mortals with God. But those who translate Purusha as a person or a personality (a glorified Nara) do so.

Wiser people know Purusha as the being who was Purva Usha. The being who predated Usha.

Moerver, when scriptures says God created man in his own image then most take the body and its shape as God's image. See the falsity of the perspective?

How will one know what is the image of God without knowing God? And these naras simply ignore the scriptures which say that Brahman is Atma/Pragnya/Purusha.

Are they wise? No, however great a sage they may be. And most such just bask in the glory of abuse of Sankaracharya, without even once mentioning that very few can attain Shankaracharya's level of Bhakti. For Bhakti also Bhaja Govindam, Saundarya Lahari, or Sivanand Lahari are peerless.

Pardon me.

Om Namah Sivayya

11-18-2005, 11:07 AM

Hare Krishna,

"I am not comparing mortals with God. But those who translate Purusha as a person or a personality (a glorified Nara) do so."

God is indeed a person or a personality - but we do not see Him as a glorified Nara. We see Him as a transcendental nara. In addition Krishna says that He considers less intelligent those who think He was unmanifest before and assumed the personality of Krishna (Bg. 7.24)

"Wiser people know Purusha as the being who was Purva Usha. The being who predated Usha."

And there is no reason why that being cannot have a personality.

"Moerver, when scriptures says God created man in his own image then most take the body and its shape as God's image. See the falsity of the perspective?"

No, we see that God's transcendental body and shape has mercifully been materially replicated in the human being.

"How will one know what is the image of God without knowing God? And these naras simply ignore the scriptures which say that Brahman is Atma/Pragnya/Purusha."

Brahman is indeed one feature of God. We don't deny God any of His three features: Brahman, Paramatma and Bhagavan.

"Are they wise? No, however great a sage they may be. And most such just bask in the glory of abuse of Sankaracharya, without even once mentioning that very few can attain Shankaracharya's level of Bhakti. For Bhakti also Bhaja Govindam, Saundarya Lahari, or Sivanand Lahari are peerless."

Indeed, Shankaracharya was a great devotee of Vishnu. After all, he is an incarnation of param-vaishnava Lord Shiva. Also, he preached that 'just chant the name of Govinda, none of this logic and grammar will save you at the time of death'. We also accept the words of Lord Shiva from the Padma Purana: `In the age of Kali, I take the form of a brahmana and explain the Vedas through false scriptures in an atheistic way, similar to Buddhist philosophy.' We know that impersonal philosophy of Shankarcharya was given specifically in order to carry out the above delineated mission.

Your aspiring servant,
******

11-19-2005, 12:32 PM

Well first find out Why Indra killed Vrtra and pregnant wives of Krsna.

11-23-2005, 02:50 PM

Hare Krishna,

Om Namo Shivaya,

"Well first find out Why Indra killed Vrtra and pregnant wives of Krsna."

I will if you give me source where you read it, as i requested in the other thread - otherwise how can i find out?

Your aspiring servant.

bhadramoorthi · 12-08-2005, 03:13 AM

".....I realize your feelings have been hurt by likes of Govidram and you are angry justly so.
We Hindus are our worst enemy sometimes, without knowing the subject matter we jump to wrong conclusion..."

I am surprised your post starts with pranam instead of calling me a fool/idiot.Are you really a Vaishnava?
Then how come only you are so polite and humble?

I am not angry towards Govindaram.
he should go through several janmas yet to come to learn the truth.
Otherwise, we can see a person in Vaikunda, calling everyone idiot and "dog", like that.

"....Have you ever tried to find out at what age this Lila of our Lord took place? Do you know the position of gopis?...."

KRISHNA'S AGE:

Anyway, in your Krishna-book, it is given that Gopis felt desire(lust?) for Him when He stole their clothes.So age didnt matter.
Inference: he was perfect youth for a woman to lust.

GOPIS POSITION:

They were lusting towards a boy, but already married.
This was their position.

"........Try to read udhav conclusion on this or ask some one like Rameshbhai Oza who is a great Bhagvat scholar.."

Since they were all devotees, they can only explain it that way.

"........It is great to worship mata don’t let anyone tell you otherwise, but please do not write derogatory things about our lord..."

Yes,Indeed great,i agree.
Hayagreeva says: " Punya attained through crores of Janmas of worshipping Brahma, Vishnu, Rudra, and all other Devathas lead us to the Mother in the last birth.
Devi upasana and Lalitha Sahasranama chant are done in the Last birth...."

Who is this OUR LORD?
There is only one Lord.It is childish to say that only one sect worships Him