Anbe sivam

10-14-2005, 11:39 AM

"Anbe Sivam", means love is god and god is love.
This is the central theme of all great Tamil scriptures of the past.

History behind the above phrase and few other timeless words:

tirumUlar is arguably the most important sage of Tamil Nadu. He originated both the Tamil Siddha movement and the Saiva siddhAnta religious tradition. His 3000 verse tirumantiram is at once a theoretical treatise of Saiva philosophy and a technical guide of tantra yOga. His pervasive influence on the Tamil psyche is evident from the fact that so many axioms of Tamil culture and thought are tirumUlar's sayings! For example

onRE kulam, oruvanE dEvan

"All humanity is one family, and God is but one!" This universalism, an integral part of the Tamil thought long before tirumUlar, became a central thesis in the religious development of Tamil Nadu after tirumUlar, with tAyumAnavar and rAmalinga aDikaL developing this theme further in later centuries.

yAn petRa inbam peRuha ivvaiyagam

"May the whole word experience the bliss that I have attained!" tirumUlar gives the above as the reason for composing tirumantiram. This sense of altruism, too, had a powerful impact on later religious thought of Tamil Nadu. ThAyumAnavar says that he has no wish other than that all humanity attain to happiness.

anbE Sivam!

"God is Love! (God and Love are not two, but identical!)" This saying, which permeates Tamil literary and social thought, is a revolutionary statement that departed from the contemporary opinion that love was a means to God (but not God itself, by implication).

10-14-2005, 02:25 PM

But basically people think they should love someone only when the others love them as well..that is a Hindu should love a true Hindu..like in BGeetha that god would love u only if u do so and so and be so and so..if LOVE is GOD,then it means unconditional.whether that person is perfect or not.whether he is from any religion caste or nationality..also i think there wont be a religion if this is implemented and that is y most people..especially in religious boards they wont agree to this
ANBE SIVAM,infact in this board it seems they dont consider any god as useful at all..if u notice someone had said all prayers shouldbe directed towards Krishna...so where is the question of Anbe Sivam

Ganeshprasad · 10-14-2005, 03:46 PM

Jai Ganesh

Pranam Shaiviteji

I read your post with great interest
nice post keep it up

Sivam

Pranam Guestji

Re
(But basically people think they should love someone only when the others love them as well..that is a Hindu should love a true Hindu..like in BGeetha that god would love u only if u do so and so and be so and so..if LOVE is GOD,then it means unconditional.)

In Gita i see no cumpulsion, in fact Krishna ends with saying now do what you have to do.
we all say love should be unconditional, and so it should be, but us mortals are self propelled always with an ulterior motives
Is god love? of course yes, only we do not see it,we fail to recognize he/she is the provider the proprietor we fail to love him back. choice is ours we either love him or love his external energy, but he loves us unconditionaly

Jai Shree Krishna

10-14-2005, 04:36 PM

In BG Krishna asks to see the union of matter and conciousness in all things. The matter is the energy manisfested, and the conciousness is the spirituality unmanifested. In a different context of samkhya philosphy Krishna also explains the union of pakriti and prusuha.

We notice that the contemporaries quote God as distinct from his Yenergy, or more klearly the Yexternal Yenergy. May be this is one of the contemporarily spoken things to announce the intent to make Krishna or the supreme being proud, regardless of what krishna explains in BG.

Ganeshprasad · 10-14-2005, 05:44 PM

Jai Ganesh

Re
(We notice that the contemporaries quote God as distinct from his Yenergy, or more klearly the Yexternal Yenergy. May be this is one of the contemporarily spoken things to announce the intent to make Krishna or the supreme being proud, regardless of what krishna explains in BG.)

Yes it is easy to make that assumption and I can see why, such is the nature of words, we can understand that the energy and energetic can not be distinct.
Energy does come in different forms, when we discuss material energy and its temporary nature; it is not difficult to make the distinction.
Point was we may love god in his full glory or we may love his energy, which is temporary, or changing in nature thus perceived to be different.

bg4.11
ye yatha mam prapadyante
tams tathaiva bhajamy aham
mama vartmanuvartante
manusyah partha sarvasah

All of them--as they surrender unto Me--I reward accordingly. Everyone follows My path in all respects, O son of Prtha.

Jai Shree Krishna

10-15-2005, 12:37 PM

Shakti is distinct from Shaktiman. There is no such thing as energy without a possessor of energy. There is no such thing as consciousness without a being who's conscious. So advaita comes crashing down. There is only eternal distinction between Iswara, Jiva and Jada. Read BG properly, both you and SM-whatever, and stop talking ..

Ganeshprasad · 10-15-2005, 01:47 PM

Jai ganesh

Good have it your way
One sure way to win an argument is to shut people up or ask them to stop posting, just as you asked Shaivite.
This way you will be able to misquote and say what ever you wish.
Word of advise not that you will take but I say it any way, practice and follow your path with love and devotion but try not to force on to others.
If you think that the sakti and saktiman are two distinct thing then so be it
Jai Shree Krishna

Sephiroth · 10-17-2005, 12:40 AM

I thought it was the name of a stupid Tamil movie, featuring a stupid atheist. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

I don't remember hearing anything like this since modern time though.

To me, Responsiblity and Proper Living is Way to God, not foolish love.

10-17-2005, 02:57 AM

which atheist?

Sephiroth · 10-17-2005, 03:07 AM

It is the title of Kamalhassan's movie where he played the character of an atheist (potrayed quite well - the idiocy and all).

I watched it in Cable in Malaysia once ... didn't like it. Then again, I never did like KamalHassan ... maybe it is his name.

10-17-2005, 03:10 AM

is he a real-life atheist?

10-17-2005, 03:41 AM

Friend,

If Brothers, Revelation, Love and compassion are Christian words, then you have wrong understanding of the true spirit with which Hinduism is followed in India.

You seem to be confused with BJP, ISKCON, VHP and RSS form of hinduism where Scripture reigns supreme than the message god really wishes to convey.
You want to build a stone temple with stone idol after destroying the existing structure without understanding the true purpose temples are supposed to serve.

Meanwhile, I follow the message of great saints like Valluvar, Manika vasagar and Vallalar.

Anyway, I see that I've not made any impact on anyone, if that is the wish of god, so be it.
Maybe we are destined to follow path of destruction with more incidents like Ayodhya and Godhra.

barney · 10-17-2005, 05:34 AM

It may have sound stupid to you but not to millions of Tamilinas around the world.

May be you did not understand the moral of the story and the language. But to pass such a remark makes you look stupid. Certain Tamil movies have good moral values an this one "Anbey Shivam" far better. It teaches that God lives in all and that we should love each other to dicover the values of life. The charactor of hero played by Kamalahasan was superb. You have to see the movie before you pass such a remark.

10-17-2005, 10:43 AM

I dont like Kamalahasan either and yes he is a real life atheist.

However, i liked his movie Nayakan...he was good in it!

Haribol!

anand

10-17-2005, 06:15 PM

Quote:

You seem to be confused with BJP, ISKCON, VHP and RSS form of hinduism where Scripture reigns supreme than the message god really wishes to convey.

This guy is totally dumb and/or full of hatred for Vaisnhnavites, that he does not understand the difference between political parties like BJP, VHP, RSS etc. which do not follow any scripture and ISKCON which follows scripture.

I have never heard of ISKCON participating in destruction of Ayodhya structure. To the contrary, these were all done by followers or believers of Shiva.

Ganeshprasad · 10-17-2005, 06:45 PM

Jai Ganesh

Re
(I have never heard of ISKCON participating in destruction of Ayodhya structure. To the contrary, these were all done by followers or believers of Shiva.)

It is true i have not heard anything like that either.
It would be too much to ask Iskcon to participate.

But to suggest they were all followers of Shiva is pure ignorance,malicious and anti Hindu, but then i suspect you are not a Hindu

Jai Shree Krishna

10-17-2005, 07:04 PM

Quote:

It is true i have not heard anything like that either.
It would be too much to ask Iskcon to participate.

Thankyou for confirming ISKCON played no part, eventhough I am not part of ISKCON.

Quote:

But to suggest they were all followers of Shiva is pure ignorance,malicious and anti Hindu, but then i suspect you are not a Hindu

Think what you may Ganeshprasad, but it is a fact that majority Hindus in Northern India are followers of Shiva (meaning that these people believe Shiva as supreme). Vaishnavites have always been a minority in any part of India. This is the sure sign of kali Yuga progressing faster.

For your info I come from Tamil Nadu and am a Hindu.

I gave this reply to set right the prjudice this Shivite holds for Vaishnavas. He thinks that teachings of Shaivam only is good. I want to show him that it is these fellows who follow Shaivam, in essence, that did the demolishing of Ayodhya structure(I call it a structure deliberately). This fool also believes in AIT, which is evident from his writings in Vedas and Gita.

Ganeshprasad · 10-17-2005, 07:43 PM

Jai Ganesh

Re
(Think what you may Ganeshprasad, but it is a fact that majority Hindus in Northern India are followers of Shiva (meaning that these people believe Shiva as supreme). Vaishnavites have always been a minority in any part of India.)

This is news to me, and it does not matter to me much as long as Hindus follow dharma.

up North the Vaisnava V Shaiva rivairy never was as intense as down south.

And from where i come from ie. Gujrat such enmity was unheard off.

Re
( This is the sure sign of kali Yuga progressing faster. )

progress of kali is unavoidable, we dont help much when we make wild accusation or divide ourself on grounds of Shiva Or Vishnu worship.

Re
(I gave this reply to set right the prjudice this Shivite holds for Vaishnavas. He thinks that teachings of Shaivam only is good. I want to show him that it is these fellows who follow Shaivam, in essence, that did the demolishing of Ayodhya structure(I call it a structure deliberately). This fool also believes in AIT, which is evident from his writings in Vedas and Gita.)

I agree this person has not helped much, and who ever believes in AIT i fill sorry for, since they are not able to see the blatant lies the old masters told, to rule us and make us look foolish.

Jai Shree Krishna

Sephiroth · 10-17-2005, 09:38 PM

Revelations means two things :

1. God hide something and decides to reveal to you (via prophets).

2. God created something new in the Universe (which is unknown before) and decides to share.

Both are false. God do not hide ANYTHING, we don't understand most of the things around us because we are too busy thinking about it from our own point of view (view from within outward).

Also while God do create things news, most of the fundamentals in the Universe remain constant - like the Laws of Gravity, Matter, Energy and things like that. Laws governing Man so he could reach God also remain same. Judaism don't believe that God will change the Laws every few thousand years just to please the change Man has made.

Take Mahabratha for example - it comprises information about Devas, Demons, Yaksa and Man. But in all this races, the Lesson He always teachs is same - live in Harmony with themselves and Nature and with Love and Peace.

If Brothers, Revelation, Love and compassion are Christian words, then you have wrong understanding of the true spirit with which Hinduism is followed in India.

Love and Compassion? This maybe not Christian words but it is NOT Christian quality. Never in history of Man have Christians approach others with Love and Compassion. They approach others with an attitude that they are "chosen ones" by God and others are inferior. Even today, the same attitude exists.

While Jews do proclaim they are chosen people of God, Jews proclaim it in such way that Judaism is for them alone and others are free to follow whatever they choose (include Judaism). Matter a fact, many celebrities like Madonna follow Judaism (even so she is not a Jew) and Jews themselves to do interfere with her choice (they just make noise when she abuse them).

Anyway, I see that I've not made any impact on anyone, if that is the wish of god, so be it.
Maybe we are destined to follow path of destruction with more incidents like Ayodhya and Godhra.

There is no "We" here, just you.

Like I said before in other threads, Hindusm are following path of destruction because of foolish notions like Love and Compassion toward barbaric races like Christians and Muslims (like what you are doing).

Like it or not - this is War. This is War of Righteousness and MUST be fought with Righteousness itself. Internet is the 1st Stage - flood the Net with information on Hindusm and about God. Let the people choose which is the true words of God and come back, instead of living in delusion and self-denial which is Islam and Christianity.

Real War - one where we will fight with our hands, is not yet here. Strengthen our children with knowledge and Dharma first. God will tell when to fight and give us victory. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Sephiroth · 10-17-2005, 09:57 PM

It may have sound stupid to you but not to millions of Tamilinas around the world.

Nobody said millions of Tamilians around the world are clever bunch, otherwise they won't be living all over the world (choose to leave India) and leave India in the gutters, do they? [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/i