Proof that Swaminarayan is the supreme Lord? - Page 4

Vidyardhi Nanduri · 08-06-2007, 11:04 AM

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bhups · 08-06-2007, 06:28 PM

Oh no celina12 the other side has got the vachnamurt up before the baps!!

Quick send them another email!

Well i guess they are busy building more monuments instead of busy preaching the true words of the Lord.

What do they say in your books about the Guru param-para of Ayodhyaprasadji Maharaj and Raghuveerji Maharaj ?

Your probably like Who? read this - swaminarayan.info/Acharyas/

--- · 08-06-2007, 08:22 PM

now which sampradaya teaches its devotees to ridicule others ?

wether one belong to baps or is under vadtal or amdavad ..... finding out the truth is the common goal of all..... and the truth cannot be arrived at with arguments using scriptures simply because in an individual's case what "one understands" matters more that "what is written" ... and what "one understands" will depend on who the person accepts as authority ...including which scriptures are considered as authorotative........ arguing over it is useless ...pointless......
better to do the mantra given by the guru ...........because unfortunately misery will keep finding a person until the truth finds him..... arguments will only drain your energy and time ....and mood...whats the point in winning an argument over god if god is still not found ?.....and if god is found why would one care for anything else.......
personally i still havent found what i'm looking for....so it just pisses me off when i look at arguments .......i mean imagine looking at a bunch of blind men fighting with each claiming "i am blind allright..but i can see better than others" lol......come to think of it ....it looked so inviting to me that i thought i'd better join.....

daas ka daas · 08-06-2007, 10:15 PM

Yeah but truth will remain truth and Dharm should always be protected by the Bhakt, Sadhu and Acharya.

Gods Dharm, agna and Upasna are not somthing to be mingled with nor compromised with.

dharmesh mistry · 08-07-2007, 12:44 AM

jai swaminarayan.
halo, pramukh swmi maharj never says i have to sit on golden thrown, but it is the bhakti of the devotees that they give the thrown.
if ur guru comes to visit ur house then i would like to know that u will give a respectful sit or would u say that u sit on the ground and i will sit on the chair
and que about the world i would like to inform that once one haribhagt said that lot of satsang had happen, but gunatitanand swami replied that lot of satsang would be said when swaminaryan name will be on evry leaves of the trees around tha world so the agnya of the guru they folow.
and also pramukhswami never goes for roaming like u they go to temple and do satsang only never they do other activities ok
their mision is to spread ekantik dharm all over the world
i have visited bhuj, not even a single haribhagat had bowed down to other haribhagat and said jai swaminarayan. come and visit our baps mandir every haribhakt bows each other that what lord swaminarayn bhagwn want that every haribhakt is divine.
jai swaminaryan.

celina12 · 08-08-2007, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daas ka daas

Yeah but truth will remain truth and Dharm should always be protected by the Bhakt, Sadhu and Acharya.

Gods Dharm, agna and Upasna are not somthing to be mingled with nor compromised with.

jai swaminaryan. for mahesh and others. it shouldn't matter what Pramukh Swami sits on. He is a living saint and deserves to be respected. It's not like the Vadtal/Ahmedavad Acharyas sit on a bed of nails all day. Are these the philosophical points you wanted to debate?

dharmesh mistry · 08-08-2007, 05:58 AM

halo devotees of lord swaminarayan
listen carefully.
that our one and only aim is to acheive akshardhaam.
so why to fight for sampradaay, lord swaminarayn is same .
he told in vachanamrit, that he who has dharm,,bhakti,,vairagya,,and mahatmya sahit bhagwan na swarup no nishchay. this 4 things , god will reside in him.
so why to fight between amdavad,vadtal ,baps and others
we should only worship lord swaminarayan
if we want to go to gadhada, then let one go from amdavad, and let other from junagadh we should reach gadhada.
so never fight for sampraday, only fight for our swabhaav. and with our mann.
then only swaminarayan would come within us.
ok,

daas ka daas · 08-08-2007, 09:27 AM

First of all teh ACharyas are Grahast. Secondly Gunatitanand Swami was given many such ornaments and even at one stage he was give a pagh to wear in one village and he immediately left the gaam. It was the same with Nishkulanand Swami in one village where he was offered lapsi to eat. Yet he didnt accept and left the next day.

A true saint shouldnt accept such ornaments.

Secondly when a saint comes to my house, we dont give them thrones to sit on. Nor do the ysit on leather sofas. They automatically sit on the asans on the floor.

Also a sant is Paramhans. the yare menat to go from village to village spreading atsang. Thats what true saints do and also do Pravrutti. Read the Satsangi Jivanfor Sants dharms.

Also when BAPS get caught through a scripture they state like you guys do. That we shouldnt fight etc. And our one and only aim is to achieve Akshardham. But truth is that we shouldnt want Akshardham nor the 4 types of muktis. We should only wish to make Bhagwan happy.

This can only be done through His agna and upasna. BAPS fail here. This is my point. Also all Haribhakts say JAi Swaminarayan to all in Bhuj. What are you on about? LOL. Even though still, no one does guru droh or vachan droh.

daas ka daas · 08-08-2007, 09:29 AM

People come here quoting quotes and references, but why is it that when it comes when Siddhants are quotes they are never spoken against by BAPS followers?

You people go round replying "blood is Mayik" etc. But who is worshipping the blood anyway? We surely are not. We are simply doing what Bhagwan Swaminarayan taught us. What He prescribed for His followers to do. He set out the Dharmkul and its Gadi. Read Nishkulanand Kavya. Truth is I’ve stated you guys to read such text but I never ever get a response or a reply about it. As to whether you have read it or not. Even read the Sarvamangal Namavli... which consist of 1000 names of Swaminarayan Bhagwan. In there is no reference to Akshar Purushottam nor is there any reference to a gubatit Parampara. But there is reference to Acharyas, Acharyas initiations for Bhakts, Acharyas wives and their female Shishyas, Sadhvi Dharm.

You go on stating how you have become good people, well that’s great, Yipee yay. That’s great. If you ask a Christian who has met the pope then they would too state such about him. How he shines like a star etc. You think the original Sampraday doesn’t have true saints or something?

Also if you read Gopalanand Swamis Vato it clearly states what a Avgun is also what a Avgun isn’t. And by teaching someone and telling them that they have taken a avgun is niot a avgun, if you believe different then please state with reference where Swaminarayan Bhagwan states in the scriptures.

They too would leave any sins and bad behaviour they would have on His words. But are you so great in the eyes of Bhagwan by ignoring His will, His precepts, His tenets for Bhakts, His Principles etc?

You state how you were a bad person and ate meat. Lol mate your only 16, I’m 24and trust me I’ve done everything there is to do which im not very proud of (this includes eating meat to drugs etc), and nor was I born into Satsang. I was introduced into what I thought was Satsang in the Neasden BAPS Yagna many years ago. I was then a regular worshipper of Neasden Swaminarayan Mandir as I only live on ffice:smarttags" />Crest Road in Neasden today. This was until I started reading the Original Shastras as told by Tyagvallabh Swami of BAPS who was in Sarangpur BAPS Mandir in my trip to India with my family. At the time I had learnt Guajarati at

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laceType> so I was fluent in reading. I thank Swami to this day for telling me such. As this is what made me open my eyes as at first I bought the Satsangi Jivan all 5 Volumes from Swaminarayan Mandir Bhuj?

It is then I started to realise for myself with the help of my new guru Sadguru Shriharidasji of Bhuj Mandir. Now this saint actually talks with God. I’ve seen wake up at 2am to puja, clean Mandirs at such a ripe age, never get angry ever, and have all 30+ qualities of a saint described in the Vachnamrut. He is a Ekantik Santpurush that Nishlulanand Swami describes in the Kavya. That reminds me.. I then started to read the Kavya by learning the Raags firstly and then slowly reading it with Swamis help. He used to teach me the meanings as they were. Then I started reading the Satsangi Bhushan and Hari Digvijay.

The Vachnamrut was an everyday thing as Swami knows the whole Vachnamrut by heart with its deepest meanings which I’ve not seen any saint even today teach. Shriharidasji Swami once also took out ghost from the body of a possessed man from 6pm to 2am in the morning one after another. I lived with swami for 2 whole years and finished my college at Laalan college in Bhuj. No BAPS saint compared to Such an Ekanti Sants darshan everyday. Nor did Swami accept to sit in thrones either nor let himself be called Mool Akshar or anything eve though he is surely a mukt. As I understood from authentic orthodox scriptures that there is no such Gunatit Parampara mentioned nor are there any of Mahrajas Lilas upon any such incidents taking place where Bhagwan mentions such a Parampara. Rampratapbhai and Iccharam Bhai were the avtaars of Sankarshan and Pradumna. Bhagwan decided from Akshardhaam that he would create a Sampraday of His Murtis, Shastras, Acharyas and Saints. These Acharyas would be chosen from His Dharmkul. Why is it you ignore the Ourshottam Prakash by Sadguru Nand Sant Nishkulanand Swami? As this Purshottam Prakash was even read by Shriji Mahraj and he put it in His head!! And gave Nishkulanand Swami His Charnarvind on his chest and chandan puja and garlanded him woth his prasadi flowers!!! This Purshottam Praksh contains everything!!! Yet you BAPS followers don’t read it?????? WHY I ASK? Again and Again. Once you do read it then let me know what you think instead of coming in here spurting drivel.

Secondly i learnt that Sadguru Akshar Avtaar Gopalanand Swami was Akshardham incarnate according to scriptures and any scriptures that BAPS use are either edited or neither to such Shlokas exists in the authentic scriptures. This is the only reason I’m on here trying to get people to read the scriptures as they are without anybody’s purport or edited versions. If you seek truth and reality as it is you should also read the Bochasan Bandh. Otherwise what you follow is nothing but like the blind leading the blind.

Sarva Avtaari Bhagwan Swaminarayan Ni Jai!!
Nar Narayan Dev Ni Jai!
Laksmi Narayan Dev Ni Jai!

Asuri and Paapi People and the Importance of Following the True Swaminarayan Sampraday.

Let me explain with what God taught in Vachanamrut 14 Gadhada 2nd. Lord talks about asuri and paapi souls.

The lord says that people who have taken avgun (critisised or dishonoured) of a true saint or God himself, becomes cursed. He cannot get ultimate redemption or atyantic kalyaan (moksha).

Gopalanand Swami States that this saint should be a true Ekantik and have the refuge of the Dharmvansh. If someone finds faults with such a saint through mind or deed is said to have taken avgun of the saint. His nature becomes agnostic and finds faults with a true saint and God each and every time. For many lives he will remain the same. There are also other people, who commit many sins, but their mind is not, such which finds faults with true saints, God and his work. Therefore even though he commits sins he knows that a saint is true and understands a saint’s importance. Therefore whenever he approaches a true saint his sins are nullified by mere touch of a true saint. He also realises that he makes mistakes therefore he doesn’t fall from his path of attaining Gods abode.

It is like milk, which has been poisoned. The milk is used to make many products such as yoghurt, chaas, butter, cheese etc. Now if the milk has been poisoned the rest of the by products will also be poisoned. No matter how much a person heats the milk the poison will not be rid of.

In the same way the cursed mind (asuri) will not got be got rid of unless he realises the greatness of a true saint. Until then he will always find faults in a sampraday or satsang. Whereas milk which only has debris fallen into it can be sieved heated purified and drunk. This is the case for the sinner (paapi). A sinner can get rid of his sins very easily just by realising a true saint and taking refuge under him or merely by realising the greatness of God but for an asuri minded person its much more difficult.

Lord calls people who find faults with true saints asuri. He also states that asuri’s can only be existing in a sampraday or close to a satsang. As they have to because only then they can find faults of a true saint etc.

The other thing is that a paapi (sinner) can be generally recognised. For example a person who drinks can be recognised easily by the way he smells. Or a smoker can be recognised for whatever reason etc but a person who is Asuri cannot be recognised even though he lives within the company of a satsang or sampraday. Even though the asurs may be a devout Brahmin doing what he is meant to such as Tilak chandlo, and manasi puja, wearing kanthi and janoi and coming to satsang etc. this does not mean he is of good nature!

It’s the inner qualities which are the ones to look out for. For example Hitler is said to be a vegetarian and non-alcoholic. This does not mean Hitler was a good man? No it doesn’t for he had many asuri tendencies, He may have murdered many saintly people not mentioning the thousands of innocents.

Another example is that of Ravan. He was well known as a studier of Veda’s. He wrote so many manuscripts of the Veda’s. He pleased Lord Shiv and Brahmaji with his penance! Does this mean he was of good character? No it doesn’t because he questioned Gods divinity as well as opposed Him and his saints thus making him Asuri. He had hatred towards his Brother Vibhishan who was saintly in character.

Therefore there are many asurs living today in satsang as well as outside of satsang but because they have found faults in God, true saints and followers they will remain asuri, and their hearts will be full of ignorance, envy, anger, arrogance and other inner enemies (kaam, krodh, lobh, matsar, irsha etc.). This also exists within sadhus as well. They look at devotees and they have no problem with them. But inside they have so much hatred with other true saints. They have anger and jealousy lurking inside them. Or they want to break away and do another thing from what God originally stated. Just like poisoned milk, no matter how many mouth-watering products are created from it, it will remain poisoned. In the same way no matter how many good causes these “breakaway cults” create; they will always remain poisoned as the initial breakaway is devoid of the sampraday, which Shriji Maharaj originally created.

Nand Sant Sadguru Shri Niskulanand Swami, states in the Yamdand Kavya that a soul may he be samadhi nishth and one with brahm yet even he shouldn’t ever think of being worshipped as God. So what to talk of mere mortals thinking so? Those that do think such and allow themselves to be believed by humans as God, fall in the deepest of hells. Such “sadhu’s” exist today as the leaders of so-called Swaminarayan sanstha’s as acharya!

Purushottam is the highest reality, the supreme Godhead, one and unique. He is, at once, transcendent to everything and immanent in everything. He is the concrete reality with divine form and perfect personality who is the controller and supporter of everything. Lord Swaminarayan Himself is Sarva Avtaari Parabrahm Purushottam.

An asuri way of thinking must have existed for a so-called saint to create such sub-sampraday’s in the first place. As no matter what the circumstances are. Even if a Dharmvanshi acharya is devoid of what he should be doing, this does not create an excuse to breakaway from the original doctrine, as another acharya is sure to follow after him and true saints still reside and will always reside within the sampraday as promised by the lord. As breaking away from the reality is nothing but breaking away from a place in Akshardham. These people who do such are “vimookhs”. The Sikshapatri clearly states this. No matter what they use to justify their position they will not achieve the divine abode of God, for why would they?

The lord commanded that this satsang and sampraday is for the ultimate redemption of human kind. It is a way in many will attain heaven if they follow it correctly. “My doors for whoever realises this is free from the agonies of birth and death and never have to be born within this universe which has been created to purify the souls”, this is what Shriji Maharaj has said.

A temple, satsang and sampraday are not created to be well established and to gain fame and be recognised throughout the world with its popularity. It is there so that souls attain heaven. So people who say, “oh, such a Swaminarayan sect is much more popular than the original one, they have the large gathering of followers” etc, are misguided. For if this were the case then so called Vedant teachers like Rajneesh would have proved his way of religion correct, according to Vedic customs ages ago, because he too was at once popular. However his way of dharm fell as it was against the teachings of the Vedas.

Just like a house is for people to live within not for people to live for. In the same way a sampraday and a temple is for getting into heaven not for misguidance and new cults to live for which is the case that can be seen today. Many other Swaminarayan sanstha’s have come to exist for taking revenge on reality. People do not see this nor realise how the sanstha comes to be and follow it like their all. What they do see is this front which they think is correct and as its strong, popular etc, therefore it must be true. Yes these so called Swaminarayan sampraday “breakaways” do good deeds, yes they feed the poor, yet it is like the by products of poisoned milk and of asuri nature like explained before.

These good deeds that they do will not alone get them into heaven, as the initial teachings taught by the Lord are not intercepted with what they preach, teach or carry out in their lives. However, these good deeds will help them in their lives to come even though they may be saintly in this life.

A person who does tilak, chandlo and may well wake up in brahmuhrat can still be evil from the inside because of the abhaav of saints he or she may have. These people are full of cheat, ignorance, and many other antarshatrus like maan, irsha etc. These people live inside satsang and cannot be recognised by anyone. The lord says that until you live in the company of such people or saints only then can you recognise their true nature. In the same way these more and more fabricated cults, which are poisoned, will appear and realising they are devoid, they should be discarded.

For what to talk about a true saint? The lord in Gadhada Pratham Vachanamrut 27 explains that a saint who realises that Lord is controller of all and he himself is nothing but a soul and considers all material objects as equal, whether it is a mount of gold or stones the saint sees it as equal. Such a saint has God looking from the eyes he looks with, walking from the feet he walks with. By the power of God within him he is able to show many souls and make them realise who God is.

By performing darshan to such a saint a person can get rid of all his sins past and present. Such saints live within Shree Swaminarayan mandir Bhuj under Nar Narayan Dev’s care. They have the power to do as they please yet they remain humble, limiting the knowledge of their greatness to only the ones who have witnessed them in divine action. Such saints are like the current Mahant Sadguru Shri Hariswarup Dasji and Sadguru Shri Ghanshyamjivandasji etc. These are just two from many, but for those who do not want to understand will never do and lose this precious human life which they think they are happy in because of the material pleasures. True happiness lies nowhere but in satsang.

These views of God are for people who are daivy (divine souls) and not asuri’s as asuri minded people will always question and will remain agnostic no matter what the case. These are the teachings of Lord Swaminarayan as attained by the Samprdai scriptures.

Jai Swaminarayan.

celina12 · 08-10-2007, 01:07 AM

Those who protect Lord Swaminarayans Dharma, are the true devotees of God. BAPS fits in this catergory. The Ahmedavad/Vadtal crooks aren't respecting what Lord Swaminarayan taught. They are not protectors of his dharm.

daas ka daas · 08-10-2007, 06:14 PM

How does BAPS fit into this category? When they go round changing Artis, Shlokas and Scriptures?IS this how they fit in? When the ydo droh of Mahrajs Vachans and his principles. BAPS do not even adhere to the scriptures. not even the primary one The siksapatri. So how do you guys fit it?You do clealry fit into the Vimukh category i have to say.

BAPS is full of all sorts of evils. Just because they have soem control over the Gujrati media they are not portrayed as such. Are you telling me there is no fight going on at the moment over the next Pramukh Swami? LOL

Also about when you need land, and when your saints want to leave theyre beaten up. Just like Hariprasad swami says he was. So he created haridham sokhda. Ive heard from my ears about his troubled past in BAPS. Yet he takes gunas of Swami. So to say that nothing happens is foolish of you. You should have female gurus anyway as a female. Liek Bhagwan Himself established. Aum shri Sadhvidharmpravartkaay namah.... Remember???

Our road may have bumps and holes in them. They may even be flooded but this is the Road that Bhagwan Swaminarayan Himself established!! This is the road he told all to follow! Whatever this road is like we know where it leads.

Whereas your road is going in the opposite direction. Its not made by Bhagwan nor is it that which Bhagwan told His devotees to follow. You think your doing great form you building of temples and some seva. But when it comes to Agna and Upasna its devoid of teh principles of Bhagwan Swaminarayan.

BAPS Follower · 11-08-2007, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daas ka daas

How foolish of you. Typical BAPS follower, always narrows it down to envy. Mate if i had Irsha i wouldnt follow what i do, i would join you. But this is not the case i dont envy you. In case i pity you guys. Into thinking how you will attain Moksh by doing Vachan droh of Bhagwan Swaminarayan and displeasing Him in this manner..

Also you are very keen on referncing by 'cherry picking' what you like but never answer to the post that have been referenced about Agna and Upasna. You like to pick out what you think is right. And the rest of it you disregard. BAPS is like the blind leading the blind. That is exactly what it is.

Also it isnt about "getting up our asses and helping the world". This is about becomming an Ekantik Bhakt. Which you have no scope for. BAPS change Scriptures, Shlokas, stotras like the Janmangal, Artis and even the main Precepts and siddhants. Why should we envy such?? How foolish of you to think such.

Also in terms of being international.. Satsang in the UK and Africa first started by Kutchi Haribhaktos under NAr Narayan Dev MAndir under Bhuj- Amdavad Gadi. USA satsang was established by ISSO (International Satsang Swaminarayan Organisation- under Amdavad and Vadtal Gadi) Not only that but it is flourishing day by day.

You backlash with your own views by stating stuff like your envious etc. But you never reply with references and quotes from the Shastras about Agna, Upasna or the scriptures views nor the refuge of the Dharmvansh.

The only thing Vadtal and Ahemdabad Gadi's know what to do is argue with in each other.

BAPS Follower · 11-08-2007, 12:36 PM

You will not find one black spot on a white cloth in BAPS. Jealousy is a bad thing..BAPS does not have to be jealous of any other sampraday. I dont personally see anything in other sampraday's. What are other Sampraday's known for? Acharya's kill sadhu's....Sadhu's caught in sexual acts....Is this something to be proud of? Tell me one thing BAPS has done wrong? The only thing BAPS does is provide a right path to Akshardham. They do not believe in all this other stuff you people are going on about....
I was watching something the other day where i saw the Maninagar Guru dancing to a hindi tune....Show me proof of something BAPS does wrong and i will have proof to contradict you!

BAPS Follower · 11-08-2007, 12:43 PM

BAPS does not change scriptures. I suggest you get off your laurals and read the scriptures written by Shriji Mah