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07-30-2007, 05:21 AM
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#41 | |
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07-30-2007, 06:16 AM
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#42 | |
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What a foolish reply. Did Bhagwan not state when he consecrated the mandirs and established Nar narayan Dev and Laksminarayan Dev that He lives inside these Murtis and through these swarups? Thats where BAPS go wrong. They do not like to read the authentic scriptures. Read the Satsangi Jivan carefully my friend before you come on here with such drivel. We are simply following word for word of Bhagwan Swamianrayan. Unlike BAPS who think the yare but in fact they are destroying all what Bhagwan Established. Truth is when they leave their body tehy will relaise. Even Kavi Dalpatraam stated this. Secondly, all the Avtaars of Bhagwaan are Him. So why do you try to proove what you do? Also all the Scriptures dating from before Bhagwaan and after Bhagwann afre divine. You cannot state what you do as a followe of Bhagwan Swaminarayan. It can clearly be seen in your post that you are not a Ekantik Bhakt. As even the Vachnamrut and Sikshapatri give greta imortance to The Gita, Bhagvat, Smrutis etc. Thirdly i do not insult BAPS i just state the facts. You dont liek that thats your problem. Why do you liek it when BAPS change the artis and go round teaching their way of Upasan and ignore Bhagwan Swaminarayan Bhagwans ways. Where in teh Sampradays scriptures does it state what you stated above? Pramukh Swmai is no God. You need to open your eyes and look at the other Sainst of then authentic orthodox sampraday instead of coming here with your man made 1907 philosophy. Swaminarayan Bhagwan Ni Jay Nar Narayan Dev Ni Jay Laksmi NArayan Dev Ni Jay |
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07-30-2007, 06:19 AM
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#43 | |
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Listen a sant in the Swaminarayan Sampraday doesnt go round twisting the words of the Scriptures and changing artis or sitting on golden thrones and accepting such worship Did Gunatitanand Swmai sit on such thrones and accept such items??No!!!! If you want to see real saint come to Prasadi na Mandir like Bhuj. |
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07-30-2007, 06:23 AM
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#44 | |
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If you had understood VAchnamrut you wouldnt have skipped following out the first Vachnamrut never mind the rest. I know what a saint is, mu guru in Bhuj has full qualities of a saint nor does he sit on golden thrones or call himself "maharaj". Read first Vachnamrut Muktanand Swmais question...Jeh Dharmkul no Ashrit evo Bhagwan no bhakt...". |
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07-30-2007, 12:58 PM
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#45 | |
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 129
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Haters Will Never Prosper!
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This is so true. I am a BAPS devotee. Alot of the so-called "Original Sampradaya" crowd, don't realise that if it wasn't for BAPS the Swaminarayan movements wouldn't be an international movement like it is. People wouldn't even know Lord Swaminarayan words, if it wasn't for BAPS and Pramukh Swami. And all there hard work. What does Vadtal and Ahmedabad do? But bicker and complain. Instead of hating BAPS, get off your ass and start helping the world, like BAPS.  You know what Lord Swaminarayan tought about Envy!  Envy One filled with the sense of sheer envy always feels absolutely belittled when anybody other than himself is honoured or respected. (Sar. -3) Under the vicious influence of envy, one is apt to malign a devotee. One should shed this instinct of envy totally. (Gad. I-4) If at all anyone sustains a feeling of envy for another, he should try to imbibe his virtues of which he falls short and for which he feels envy.(Gad. I-4) http://www.swaminarayan.org/scriptur.../gems.htm#envy
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Last edited by celina12 : 07-30-2007 at 01:03 PM. Reason: HATERS WILL NEVER PROSPER! |
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07-30-2007, 02:01 PM
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#46 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 304
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How foolish of you. Typical BAPS follower, always narrows it down to envy. Mate if i had Irsha i wouldnt follow what i do, i would join you. But this is not the case i dont envy you. In case i pity you guys. Into thinking how you will attain Moksh by doing Vachan droh of Bhagwan Swaminarayan and displeasing Him in this manner.. Also you are very keen on referncing by 'cherry picking' what you like but never answer to the post that have been referenced about Agna and Upasna. You like to pick out what you think is right. And the rest of it you disregard. BAPS is like the blind leading the blind. That is exactly what it is. Also it isnt about "getting up our asses and helping the world". This is about becomming an Ekantik Bhakt. Which you have no scope for. BAPS change Scriptures, Shlokas, stotras like the Janmangal, Artis and even the main Precepts and siddhants. Why should we envy such?? How foolish of you to think such. Also in terms of being international.. Satsang in the UK and Africa first started by Kutchi Haribhaktos under NAr Narayan Dev MAndir under Bhuj- Amdavad Gadi. USA satsang was established by ISSO (International Satsang Swaminarayan Organisation- under Amdavad and Vadtal Gadi) Not only that but it is flourishing day by day. You backlash with your own views by stating stuff like your envious etc. But you never reply with references and quotes from the Shastras about Agna, Upasna or the scriptures views nor the refuge of the Dharmvansh. |
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07-31-2007, 07:29 AM
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#47 | |
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Visitor
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 23
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Jai Swaminarayan
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Jai Swaminarayan You Said: "Into thinking how you will attain Moksh by doing Vachan droh of Bhagwan Swaminarayan and displeasing Him in this manner.. " Please can you explain, What kind of VACHAN DROH has BAPS done. In What way is it displeasing Maharaj ????? Please prove what you have said above. You said that your post regarding Agna and Upasana has been never answered?? Please refer me those posts, Will try and Answer them. Please do mention references of what you have just mentioned above abt BAPS. And also Why is their no scope for a BAPS satsangi to become Ekantik Bhakta. Please support your comments with proper explaination and references before asking others refernces. Jai Swaminarayan |
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07-31-2007, 10:01 AM
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#48 |
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 89
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could you guys just stop fighting over your beliefs ......... i mean if you guys are sure that your sampradaya is perfect then why not just follow it ...why try to proove it to others and waste time ..... as far as the guru is concerned ..he has to be treated like god ..."like god"nothing less as far as who is getting moksh and who not, everyone should read ...the vachanamrutam where lord swaminarayan asks the question "who is in greatest ignorance?.... and please dont discuss the answer to this Question in this forum as this forum is visited by many hare krishnas who believe that the are going to go to goloka .........and madhavas who believe they will go to vrindavana and swaminarayans who believe they will go to akshardham .......all such beliefs are fine and help a devotee in his faith and progress ....... here i would like to add that in vachanamrutam..the main swamis do affirm to lord swaminarayan that they know the glories of lord swaminarayan because of JNANA...... and again when asked that which is that one quality which if imbibed properly all other qualities of an ekantika bhakta will also be imbibed ..the lord replies BHAKTI.... so please dont discuss the answer of the question "who is in greatest ignorance " in this forum because this forum is visited by many bhaktas and as they progress in bhakti they will automatically imbibe jnana.... but atleast the followers of swaminarayan could read the vachanamrut..... PS is there any other publication of vachanamrut in english besides the one published by BAPS.? |
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07-31-2007, 02:10 PM
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#49 |
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 304
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I like what you state. Very nice. Also there are English Vachnamruts by Rajkot Gurukul under Vadtal Gadi and also Amdavad diocese have taken one out too. Also Satsangi Jivan as it is, the full 5 volumes will be coming out very soon in English by Bhuj Mandir under Amdavad Nar Narayan Dev Gadi. Many through this will learn truth of the Swaminarayan Satsang which Swaminarayan Bhagwan Himself established. |
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07-31-2007, 02:58 PM
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#50 |
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 89
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Thank you das ka das.... i guess now i can check out the other versions of vachanamrut when i go back to india...i am really not good at gujarati.... what i would really be interested in knowing is if the other versions also publish a few of the letters of lord swaminarayan along with the vachanamrut as you find in the Baps publication....as personally i feel that they are very influential when it comes to increasing the following of a sampradaya...atleast in case of baps also i feel that all the three sampradayas ....amadavad ,vadtal and Baps are rich enough to publish online versions of vachanamrut.. but they dont ..and there are good reasons ....as mentioned in the earlier posts some questions are not for everyone........ doing regular spiritual practice ...and having sattvik..food is what is ultimately important ....as that will open doors to direct experience .... and when that happens all questions will be automatically answered..... |
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07-31-2007, 03:33 PM
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#51 | |||
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 129
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Arguing with you is useless. Your whining and ill will won't disrupt BAPS satsang.
http://www.swaminarayan.org/vachanamrut/51.php
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07-31-2007, 04:55 PM
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#52 | ||||
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By the way ..when i said there s no version of vachanamrut online i meant the entire vachanamrut ..not just the gems......
and therefore not all teachings are for everyone....even the hare krishna dont discuss higher lilas of gopis and krishna amongst the general masses....for they are likely to be misunderstood......misinterpreted... better to follow one's own guru ......not hurt anyone..... PS ... swaminarayan was very intelligent....especially when he explained the nature of ego ..and how it enters a person masked as ego of virtuosity....something very common among believers....who think that all those who dont agree with their beliefs are idiots.....that was to me personally ..a very important lesson..... |
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07-31-2007, 07:09 PM
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#53 | |||||
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Posts: 129
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I've been emailing BAPS for a while about getting all of the vachanamrut up. It's a big task but hopefully they will.
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08-02-2007, 03:42 PM
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#54 | |||
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Posts: 304
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Yeah but guess what? Do understand this answer you have to understand who a devotee of God is...A devotee of God is HE who never disobeys the commands and tenets of Bhagwan who has established this Sampraday. And never do vachan droh. You need to open your eyes to relaity.. i suggest your read orthodox scriptures and not edited versions made yesterday. Do BAPS followers do this? NOPE i didnt think so. Do you do things by the book? I.e take refuge of the Dharmkul, Give dashmo vishmo bhaag to the Mandirs of Both Desh? Firstly, it is Lord Swaminarayan's instructions and orders in the 'Desh Vibhagh no Lekh' and noted in all other main Swaminarayan Sampraday scriptures that the Acharya of the Swaminarayan Sampraday be appointed only from His father's family i.e. 'Dharmakul'. So really this on its own should be enough for the Swaminarayan devotees! These Acharyas are the administrators of Satsang and they can also give Moksh as its through them the Saints get bhgawati diksha. The true Saints are the the path of Kalyaan many Acharyas also get their gyaan from such a true Saint. MAny such saints under the true satsang exist today. Note they have to be initiated into the Satsang as saints according to Bhagwans wish. i.e. through the Dharmvanshi Acharya. Those that are not are vimukhs according to Bhagwans own words. |
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08-02-2007, 03:46 PM
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#55 |
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 304
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Why Householder Acharyas?
Many schools of worship that have defected from the original Swaminarayan Sampraday (original sampraday = currently headed by the lineage of spiritual Acharyas descending from Ayodhyaprasadji Maharaj and Raghuvirji Maharaj) believe that saints should be and have them as their Acharyas. Well this is not true nor right for a few reasons:1) Firstly, it is Lord Swaminarayan's instructions and orders in the 'Desh Vibhagh no Lekh' and noted in all other main Swaminarayan Sampraday scriptures that the Acharya of the Swaminarayan Sampraday be appointed only from His father's family i.e. 'Dharmakul'. So really this on its own should be enough for the Swaminarayan devotees! 2) But since we have a tendency not to accept things to suit our needs, there is a very obvious and logical reason as to why Lord Swaminarayan appointed householder Acharyas AND WHY SPECIFICALLY FROM HIS FAMILY: a) The idea of appointing householder Acharyas is not a concept brought about just a few hundreds of years ago. It is a concept well authenticated in scriptures such as Yagnavalkya Smriti written thousands and thousands of years ago. Anyway, when Ramanand Swami met Dharmadev and Bhaktimata (parents of Lord Swaminarayan), Ramanand Swami asked Dharmadev and Bhaktimata to pass the initiation 'mantra' to all the devotees earnest for their libeeration, i.e. Dharmadev to the males and Bhaktimata to the females. Very obviously, Ramanand Swami was a saint and so giving the initiation mantra to ladies would be to break the rules of being a saint. And so the mantra which was given to Bhaktimata through Dharmadev was then passed on to lady devotees. This was before Lord Swaminarayan was born and before the Acharyaship was established. b) When an initiation mantra is given to a devotee or a saint, then only does he/she qualify to be a Swaminarayan devotee and his or her bhakti becomes authenticated to earn liberation. In other words IT IS very important that we get this mantra. Well obviously lady devotees would also like to go to Akshardham and serve Lord Swaminarayan, right??? Let's hope so. Well ok, so who is going to give them the mantra if a saint is to be the Acharya?? ...because a Swaminarayan saint is not supposed to communicate or even look at female devotees. It is for this very reason that Lord Swaminarayan appointed the Acharyas' wives as the gurus of the female devotees and made them responsible to pass on the mantra to the female devotees. c) A logical and scientific reason given in the scriptures - When the Acharya gives the initiation mantra to a devotee, the devotee is given a new birth by the Guru. And we all know birth can only be brought about from the union of a male and a female. In our case this refers to the Acharya and His wife, refered to as the 'Gadhiwala'. Also by the way, when initiation is given all the sins of the devotee are taken away by the Acharya or the Gadhiwala. There is a ritual for the latter whereby a Yagna is held and a coconut is offered to Agni dev. And scriptures very clearly state that this can only be done by a couple or else the sacrifice is not accepted by Agni Dev and thus one of the main reasons as to why saints cannot be Acharyas. d) WE MUST REALIZE THAT THESE HOUSEHOLDER ACHARYAS ARE NOT JUST ORDINARY HOUSEHOLDERS - THEY WERE APPOINTED AS ACHARYAS BY LORD SWAMINARAYAN FROM HIS OWN FATHER'S FAMILY (LORD'S NEPHEWS ) AND HE ADOPTED THEM AND THEIR LINEAGE (ACHARYAS' LINEAGE) AS HIS OWN SONS. SO THE LINEAGE OF ACHARYAS THAT MANY PEOPLE HAVE CHOSEN TO IGNORE AND DISRESPECT ARE THE GOD PERSONIFIED , SONS OF LORD SWAMINARAYAN, SEATED ON THE THRONE BY LORD SWAMINARAYAN HIMSELF AND THEIR CONTINUING LINEAGE IS ALSO TAKEN CARE BY LORD SWAMINARAYAN TO PROTECT HIS SAMPRADAY! So make no |