Lord Vishnu is Supreme. Also worship Lord Brahma. - Page 2

atanu · 02-22-2004, 01:54 AM

All dear believers

I have come to love the fight among the faithful adherents of different gods. No doubt what happens happens with His will. Salvation, for many will come through such intense devotional fight. Out of intense love for Vasudeva or Siva or Shakti or Ganapati or Skanda, some may not be able to sleep and may prepare arguments staying awake. There is intense feeling because each one loves god in his own way and god cannot but reward such devotion. I know this truth because I have seen light of the path.

If a Vaishnavaite feels that Vishnu is the supreme God, Vishnu indeed is. Vishnu carries such a devotee lovingly to salvation and only after attaining salvation one will know the truth. The same applies to Saivaites.

Devotion is required to gain attention of Vishnu. On salvation, the image that a vaishnavaite has of Maha Vishnu sitting on a throne and guiding the work of other gods will clear away to show one resplendent god which encompasses all Adityas and Rudras. My vaishnav friends will tell “Yes, the one resplendent being is Vishnu and none else”. True. But will it matter if someone else calls that being as Devi or Siva or Tao? What is there in a name, except the meaning associated with the sound?

The image of Maha Vishnu sitting on a throne and guiding the work of other gods, if true, makes Vishnu very weak. Despite his lordship, the Christ appears to rule the world and Uma-Mahesvar appears to rule India. Even prophet Muhammad will beat both Siva and Vishnu. Do you want to say that Vishnu is so weak that he cannot resist the domination of Christ? Whatever we see: emergence of a leader; an event; a person; a concept – vidya or avidya; a vice; a virtue, all emanate from the Supreme Being -- Maha Vishnu only. However, some people call him Prophet Muhammad. And some people call it Tao.

Repeated and vehement reference to Vedas will not help. Both Rudra and Vishnu appear as minor gods in Rig Veda. Indra is the chief. That is just for appearance. God himself has written Vedas, so will he write to glorify himself? Only men who have not seen god glorify themselves. God works silently without claiming any fame. Gita clarifies that only the Lord is the doer. Despite glorious tribute to several deities Rig Veda succintly claims “ekam satviprah bahudha vadanti” (The truth is One, sages call it by various names, 1.164.46).

In Rig Veda, Vishnu who pervades everything is just an Aditya (out of 12 Adityas)– a reference to all pervading divine light. Rudra, on the other hand is not part of anything but is a class in himself and his quality is that he is undefeatable. Rig Veda does not clarify the role of Rudra further except that is the only undefeatable God. He is also father of Maruts who assist Indra to rule. Yajur Veda however begins to clarify that Rudra wields the divine light as Vishnu shastra and similarly he also wields Vayu and also Indra etc. In Shree Rudram, Rudra is shown as Indra and Aditya. Rudra is also called as Vishnu who pervades everything. Dear friends may please confirm the last sloka in the Rudram.

In Upanishads the status of Brahman is given to Uma-Mahadeva who appears in the beginning and at the end. What remains after dissolution to start another cycle is param Brahman and no icon suits this knowledge better than the image of dancing Nataraja. These images are created by the Lord himself and so they last. But again, name and forms are not important but the underlying principle and meanings are. Narayana also appears as Purusha who is an integral part of Brahman. Sesha only gets to see the dissolution when Vishnu goes to yoga nidra.

I will not mention Tantras, but even in Bhagavatam: Shiva consumes the poison. Who but the greatest bears the heaviest load? Who but the greatest sacrifices the most?

To say that only the slokas dealing with Vishnu were written by svattwic people or the Lord himself while Shree Rudram or Svetaavatara Upanishad were written by tamasic mortal men will be wrong. The Gita clarifies that only the Lord is the doer.

What I have attempted is to bring out the meanings and not to lower any image. The Vedas state Supreme god -- param Braham to be Naryana. But Vedas also state that Rudra is param Brahman. Understand the meaning friends. Param Brahman is the underlying non-dual truth. Sages who abide in God continuously: Trailanga Nath, Ramakrishna, Maharshi Ramana state so.

I remember a sweet smiling Vasudeva as the supreme god – the param Brahman, the same as Shiva. The beauty of Vasudeva brings tears to my eyes, invoking the spirit of pure goodness. But for me, when I face a higher problem associated with a vice, I cannot help but remember the supreme yogi yet bhogi, immobile yet the rhythm itself, fierce yet calm, inauspicious yet supremely auspicious Shiva who invokes the meaning of an ever constant and ever present Lord, who controls everything – the vice and virtue both. Undoubtedly, for many people Vishnu evokes the same.

Shiva tells his lovers: Apparent decay and destruction need not be feared. The seed dies to live as a plant; the passions and sensuous thoughts of man must die to live as a conscious entity in Eternity. Once this is recognized, all destruction is seen not merely as inevitable, but as beautiful, for it reveals the sacrificial aspect of life, unconscious in the lower kingdoms, to be consciously recognized and used by the human being.

During the Vigil Night of Shiva, Mahashivaratri, we are brought to the moment of interval between destruction and regeneration; it symbolizes the night when we must contemplate on that which watches the growth out of the decay. We have to look behind and before (with Shiva in our heart), to see what evil needs eradicating from our heart, what growth of virtue we need to encourage. Such a dark night of the soul comes to all of us; it is a time when desolation lies before and behind us, and in the burning-ground of the heart there seems no life. No one escapes this dark night. Even the Christ suffered in the Garden of Gethsemane. To keep before us the memory of Shiva's dance will save us from despair and give us the courage to pass on.

Friends, when any one of you has to face such a dark night of soul when all seems lost, you feel choked and death seems the only escape, then Shiva will appear to carry you along and He will caringly impart knowledge to you. Such nights are not welcome nights, if unaided by Shiva.

The image of trinity is also given by the gods, to reveal to us the truth in stages. Please do not comment that the trinity is tamasic as someone has commented about Mahabharata. To claim that god only does this and not that is to limit God. Maha Vishnu will not like that since he has stated in Gita that everything is Him and He alone is the doer. Shiva tells the same thing to Devi in Devikalottara.

I conclude that finally everyone will know that Shiva is Vishnu and Vishnu is Shiva. Sincere devotion to any God will take one to the One Resplendent Being. That only is important.

My dear Vaishnav friends may now hurl many Vishnu ashtra at me (as Rudra does to destroy Tripura). However, I have requested Vasudeva to protect me and I know that he will.

By the way Param Brahman is not Brahma as Mr. Gokul seems to believe. But Brahma is Param Brahman. Can you understand this?

02-22-2004, 03:01 AM

Excuss me, read this thread from beginning. then u will see whos irritating whom ?

if u wanna put ur advise put on the people who hide themselves in name such as "Guest(s)". okee.

Dont always blame vaishnavas alone. open your eyes widely & see whos creating the problem.

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Jai Shri krishna

02-22-2004, 03:11 AM

I am a vaishnava.
I started this thread to Glorify Lord Brahma. But see people in guise of "Guests" came here to irritate/debate.
This is a fine testimonial exposing other sects showing how tolerant they are towards Vaishnavas.

Moreover i started a more peaceful thread -> "Lord Venkateswara - Lord of the universe". Go to that thread & see whos creating problem. This is another fine testimonial showing intolerancy of other sects.

Dont again paste ur default message -" Vishnu is shiva , shiva is vishnu" like that without knowing whos trouble maker.

You can better to go people of other sects and paste ur default message. since we dont need your advise.

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Jai Shri krishna

aditya · 09-08-2007, 08:58 AM

In 'mandukiya Upanishad Lord Vishnu is mentioned as "Parabrahma".

they simply refer to parabrahma...but nowhere is it mentioned tht vishnu is him

vmsunder · 09-15-2007, 07:28 AM

Vedas never speak about Shiva - it speaks only about - Rudra - Rudra and Shivar are not same - this is your basic ingnorance.

There are crores of Rudras - Ekadasa (Eleven Rudras)are prime among them.

Hope you have respect Hayagriva - who admits worshiping Shiva Shakthi and rendered the precious Lalitha Sahasranamam to us.

If you call all Saivist puranas are thamasic - then you redicule Vyasa - who u say is Vishnu himself.

Vyasa himself boasts "Vyasaaya vishnu roopaya, vishnu roopaya vyasave' in Vishnu sahasranamam.

The same vyasa later repents having called that Vishnu is ultimate - hails Shiva thru Vyasaasshtaka - his own words.

I am giving hereunder excerpts from my posts

Happened to read several article on Lord Siva and Vishnu

In the analysis of Shaivism is totally wrong and onesided. You cant view Lord Siva thru bhagavatham. Bhagavatham is a collection of stories. it may be noted that Bhagavatham has to be used when one chooses to go deeply into Vaishnavism.

The Saiva Philosophy is the choicest product of the Dravidian intellect. It is the most elaborate, influential and undoubtedly the most intrisically valuable of all religions of India. It is peculiarly the South Indian and Tamil Religion . - (Dr.G.U. Pope)

Please read the research of Arthur Avalon (Sir John Woodroffe) on Saktham worship - which highlights Siva-Sakthi is the ultimate supreme lords worshiped very long back.
Infact in addition to Vedas - which does not directly speak about Siva or Sakthi and speaks about Rudras only, please look into Saiva Aagamas which is largely ignored and few of them got translated to french people long back - you may find these info. in the web.

There is nowhere in ancient history about any trace of Vaishnavism, ancient most discoveries at Indus valley civilisation highlighted/unearthed Siva Worship prevelent at the time.
There is no history about "Namam" (Three vertical lines) used by Vaishnavites, it is a recent phenomenon.
There is no reference of goddess Raadha in Bhagavatham - pl enlighten me if you find it anywhere.
Also note the Guru of lord Rama is Vasista - who is a Siva devotee (vasista kumbothbava gowthamarya muneendhra devaarchitha sekaraya - siva panchatchara stothram)
Unlike Saivism, there is no worthy philosophical work in Vaishnavism except the Bhagavath gita - which is given by Vyasa only (Vyasa told Bharatham Story in which Sanjaya tells Dhrudhrashtra on what Krishna tells to Arjuna), it is ultimately the knowledge of Vyasa only - if u take it as a Story. whereas u can find Tirumandhiram in Tamil and various Sidhdhas have given various tantric and mantric and yogic and philosiphical secrets.
Even in that - Arjuna worshiped Shiva for Pasupathasthra
Lord Krishna's temple in Dwaraka - has got the Goddess (parvathi - worshiped by Krishna) temple in it.

In almost all avatars Lord Vishnu worshiped Shiva, infact as per puranas almost all avatars of Lord Vishnu ended by Lord Shiva only.
The Sudarsana Chakram in the hand of Vishnu is gifted by Lord Shiva after Vishnu offered one of His eyes to lord Shiva (Lord Shiva created Sudarsan Chakra by drawing its picture on water and land thru his toe to kill Jalandharasura).

Narasimha - by Sarabeswarar
Vamana - Sattanatha
Krisna - by Dhurvasa Rishi (devotee of lord Shiva) etc.

The temple purana of Tiruvarur in Tamilnadu says the Shiva linga worshiped by Vishnu is kept there

In Vaitheeswaran koil Lord Ram worshiped Shiva
In Kasi Viswanath was worshiped by Lord Vishnu (Vageesa Vishnu Sura Sevitha Patha Peetam - Kasi vishwanathashtakam)

Krishnua or Lord Ram are all human lives idolised subsequently because of the quality and the skills they portrayed.
Krishna's quality can be obtained by anybody who practices Ashtanga Yoga - first understand Ashtanga Yoga and then people may comment - Please refer to Patanjaly Yoga Suktham. Also the Arthur Avalons "Serpent Power" and the English translation of St.Tirumoolars "Tirumanthiram".

Also, Lookinto the Mahabharatham - given by Vyasa

St.Vyasasa gave birth to Dhrutharasthra and Pandu
St Vyasa was a vishnu worshiper - so tried to highlight Vishnu in all possible ways - Pl go thru the history behind "Vyasashtagam" to know how he was corrected.

Why dont you have a look into the Uthara Ramayana what sort of divine quality u see.

The Vedas talk only about Rudra - and moreover the Vedas are brough into India by the Iranian (Aryan)invaders, the Saiva Worship was prevelent even before the Vedic Period, the Vedas principally worships Agni, Vayu, Prithvi, Appu, Sun, Moon etc.

Seeing the supremacy of the Prevelant Shaivist philosophy in the Indian subcontinent, the invaders penetrated into the existing system while obsorbing most of the prevelent system- thats how the present day Hinduism was born. I think u dont want to go deep into the reality and accept the Historical findings. Have a look into the following research reports.

geocities.com/shivaperuman/origin.html
dlshq.org/download/lordsiva.htm

Also Veda Vyasa having uttered that Vishnu is supreme, was paralysed and prayed for Vishnu who corrected his mistakes and asked him to worship Shiva - there came Vyasaashtakam - sung by 'Veda" Vyasa himself.

Also, after conquering Mahabharath war - Krishna knowing the sins committed by killing thousands of lives insisted all the pandavas to worship Shiva at Ketharnath

Lord Rama worshiped Shiva to get rid of the sins committed by him in Ravana Samharam.

All Vedas worshiped Lord Shiva - Please refer to the Sthala puranam of Vedaranyam in Tamilnadu.

On Radha
Most of the stories attibuted to Krishna are pure imagination by staunch poetic devotees. While we need respect the bhakthi involved u cant give importance as if they were part of Srimad Bhagavatham. There is no other source except bhagavatham to know as to what
happened in Krishnavatharam. Please refer the "Krishna the man and his philosphy" by Osho.

The Bhagavath Gita
In a way, the Gita is collection of philosphy by Vyasa. Request you to note while it is the most published philosophical work because it was part of the Aryan invaders work, while there are other Great philosophical master pieces like -

Patanjali Yoga Suktham and
Saiva Aagamams - in Sanskrit,
Thirumandiram - by St Tirummolar - Tamil
Siddhar Paadalgal - Tamil
Thevaram and Thiruvasakam - Tamil

and many more

I request you have you ever had a chance of looking into the following

1. Research done in Indus Valley Civilisation
2. Kashmiri Saivm
3. Tantric and Mantric researc done by Sir John Woodroffe
4. Aryan Invasion in India and its impact in Indian philosophy

But please have a look into the life these great scholars of recent time

Sri Bhagwan Ramana Maharishi
Sri Bhagwan Ramalinga Adigal
Srimad Pamban Swamigal
Sri Sivanandha

I would like to clarify the following;

The Saiva Philosophy is the choicest product of the Dravidian intellect. It is the most elaborate, influential and undoubtedly the most intrisically valuable of all religions of India. It is peculiarly the South Indian and Tamil Religion . - (Dr.G.U. Pope)

While I am not a scholar in Saiva philosphy. But very minimum knowledge in Ancient Indian History and the Aryan theory and Saiva sidhantha knowledge itself suffice to conclude that what you have mentioned that "Shiva is next only to Krishna" is wrong.
Also, the purpose of stories are to impart a strong bhakthi in the devotees mind, one should go deep in his soul to seek the truth, after a period of time there will be no need for the form to worship, thats y u can find Siva being represented by Siva Lingam - a Roop(a)roopa form - u can attribute it either to a form or a non-form, and is denoted as "unseen and unfathomable light (Arutperunjyothi) - Please refer to Thiruvannamalai/Tiruvannamalai Temple History - Sthalapuranam.
A small quote from Thirumanthiram (translated with my little knowledge)
Seevan enna Sivan enna Verilai
Seevanar Sivanaarai Arigilar
Seevanar Sivanaarai Arindhapin
Seevanar Sivanai Vittiruppare

Translate
There is no dual thinks like - soul and Siva
The soul does not know Siva
The moment the soul knows what is Siva
Then there is no soul - only Siva exists

The word (seevan - represent Soul - u can simply see that it orinated and just an extended prounciation of Sivan)

At last
My sincere namaskars and I am amazed at the pool of knowledge you peopele show case in Vedic philosophy. And I request you to sincerely look into the untouched portion of Aagamas and Saiva and Saktha philosophy in Ancient India and the Saiva Siddhantas. I am sure that you will be benefitted a lot like Sir John Woodroffe and many others. I was bit disappointed when I read Dan Brown's "The Da Vinci Code" He stopped his research with China and did not cross over to India. Kindly dont stop your research with a portion of sanskript Vaishnavist scriptures alone if you are a seeker.

If you like to worship lord Vishnu or Krishna - well and good - but get meditate and take permision from Lord Vishnu before u utter anything low about lord Shiva.

Shiva is ultimate - Ekam Param

Vishnu in the form of Narasimha was killed by Sarabeswara - Shiva
Vishnu in Vamana Viswaroopa - was ended by Sattanatha - Shiva
Vishnu in Krishnavatar - was ended by St Dhurvasa's curse - Shiva devotee.

Vishnu worshiped Shiva - for Sudarshan chakra

Vyasa - the most biased saint - finally gave up his sins by praying to Lord Shiva - pl refer Vyasashtakam

Vishnu - searched Shiva's feet in vain

Vedas - talk about Rudra (there are eleven Rudras - Ekadasa Rudras)
Siva + sakthi - Ardhanareeswara is the ultimate mistyc solution.
CERN studies the mystry behind Lord Nataraja (Shiva) statue.
Nataraja - dance symbolises - cosmic dance representing the five actions of the universe - creation, protection, destruction, Mayaa and Salvation.

Vedas - pl refer to Sri Ramakrishna - Vedas talk only about thrigunas (sat, rajas, thamas - these three are like thieves, the verses in Vedas are not ultimate - it helps to reach divine life - swarga after death by following certain rituals and rules thats all)

Maal Ayan theda, marai theda vanavar theda nindra kaalaiyum - Abhirami Andhathi - which says Siva Sakthi's foot is searched by Brahma, Vishnu and the Vedas alike)
Pleae note - even Vedas dont know - they too search.

Please Hatha yoga and the John woodroffes research and Dr G U Pope's research on Saivism

Lalitha sahasranamam says like this:
"Karanguli Nakothpanna Narayana dhasaakrithyai namaha"
Sivasakthi - from her 10 finger nails created the ten avatars of vishnu.

In Yogic growth - "Manipoorantha rudhitha - Vishnu Kranthi vibhethini'
While one raises his Kundalini thru Hatha yoga - it crosses the Vaikuntam - which is Vishnu Kranthi located near our Chest. (brahma - Brahma Kranthi near stomach portion, Vishnu - Chest portion, Rudra - between Eye brows - Aknja chakram)

These are yogic secrets, you have to learn from a Guru the techniques and the methods.

passionate_freak · 09-15-2007, 10:59 PM

There's even more higher realm, the PARABRAMHA...above all the Gods no matter what it is Shiva, Vishnu or Bramha....

mahak · 09-17-2007, 03:46 PM

Hey PF, who di haole in your avatar.

gokulkr · 09-20-2007, 06:24 AM

Debate has been going on between vishnu-shiva supremacy from daya of dawn. But bad news for some sect (particularly to saivatees) is that Great Acharyas like Ramanujacharya, Madhvacharya, Vallabhacharya, Nimbarkacharya, Vedanta Desika etc.. have proved clearly that "Lord Narayana is Supreme Brahman" and they have defeated shaiva-scholars , saiva-philosophies.
So no use in debating on the matter which has already been solved & proved.

Moreover, we are all petty people. We have to accept the sayings of acharyas. Acharyas say "Lord Narayana" is Supreme.

Moreover Puranas are just symbolisation. Each purana hails each diff God is supreme. So debating on basis of puranas is foolish & mindless. Moreover, Saivatees dont tend to come out of "shiva purana". Wat else can they do ? Because apart from shiva-purana they dont have anything in their hands.

All the 4 great philosophies - Suddhadvaita, Vishistadvaita, Dvaitadvaitha, Dvaitha point out only "Lord Narayana" as Supreme. So saying that these 4 philosophies are meaningless by shaivatees is foolishness, because all these acharyas have already defeated shaivas and proved "Lord Vishnu" is supreme.

Om Namo Narayanaya

aditya · 09-21-2007, 12:23 AM

and your above story is of what intellectual value. The story is quite childish.

The trinity who are considered to be forms of Nirguna Brahman engage in petty power struggle. The very content is Tamasic in nature. I would not even consider this story.
************************************************** *********

oh really? since when did iskconites start getting this intelligence to judge whether a story is petty or inttelligent? or maybe u guys dont find such stories intelligent? u might find stories from bhagavatam very intelligent..like brahma testing krishna even thogugh he is a part of brahman coz it attests the supremacy of vishnu..when the same brahma gets bewildered by shive u guys find it "petty"..how about kunti getting pregnant by so many men? throwin away her child which is far worse than abortions which u guys detest? how about applying cowdung on the face? drinking the urine of cows? as validated in bhagavata?how about vishnu having millions of heads and the patience of arjuna for counting them?its very sensible nah? how about krishna crying like a deranged idiot when a fake vasudavas haed was pput in front of him? how about balarama murdering rukmi just becoz he insulted him in a dice game? how about balarama murgering romaharshana jus coz he didnt get up from the arena?u guys are fanatics with a mental imbalance

aditya · 09-21-2007, 12:25 AM

and no where in mandukya upanishad is it stated tht it is vishnu tht is parabrahma

--- · 09-24-2007, 08:24 PM

when scriptures say that at first vishnu was lying on the great ocean (read ocean=consciousness,visnu = vishwa(universe)+ anu(atom) i.e one that permeades every atom of the universe = SPACE)... lying on sesh......(sesh mathamatically means remainder ....I.E REMAINDER OF KARMAS WHICH MAKES SOULS TO BE BORN.(in vishnu===in space).....(SESH IS TAMASIC)...... now from visnu's navel a lotus springs up and from lotus bhrama is born .....bhrama is the first indiavidual in space (duality has arrived)....... now bhrama is troubled by the two demons madhu(means too much ) and kaitabh(too little ) ie excess of indulgence and desire for more indulgence (what he has is perceived to be too little).........bhrama is the first fallen soul (according to prabhupada when a soul falls he first becomes bhrama).........now vishnu is god of maintainence because ... a world of duality can only exist(MAINTAINED)only in SPACE and TIME..............BHRAMA is the god of creation because the world exists only relatively (percieved by bhrama who see himself to be seperate from space(visnnu) and time(shiva,ie kala,ie maha kala) ........ now bhrama is the the lord of creation falls for saraswati his own daughter (saraswati is knowledge(GODDESS OF )(I.E ...RELATIVE KNOWLEDGE)....... saraswati is said to be bhramas daughter because she is born of him ....I.E. she is not created by vishnu(space) or time (kala ,shiva).......BOTTOM LINE = RELATIVE KNOWLEDGE IS BORN OF "THE KNOWER"..........

now shiva the god of destruction is a state where the difference between the perciever ,the percieved and perception ....is lost
(those who really want to understand please read the "tripura rahasya.".......if you manage to understand it you will be very pissed to find out what you do ...it is an advaitic and a sakta text)..........

shiva is a state of monoism .....the scriptures say that there is no such thing as shiva and soul for where there is a soul shiva is not and where there is shiva there is no soul(duality ie the difference between the perciever and the percieved is lost)...it is the state of advaitic moksh or buddhist nirvana........it is beyond duality .....of existance and non existance............it is in this context that the statement (EKAM BHARM DWITIYA NASTI........is to be understood ..........EKAM BHRAM...ETC......DOES NOT MEAN THERE IS ONE GOD ...........IT MEANS THERE IS ONLY "ONE".......call this "ONE" as god or bhram or parabhram or WHATEVER.........but where this "ONE" exists there is no other .........

also the superiority of one god over the other is relative superiority of one tattva over other ........when scripture say that shiva is supreme because neither vishnu or bhrama could find his beginning or end ........it means THE STATE OF SHIVAHOOD CANNOT BE PERCIEVED,OR KNOWN IN SPACE(vishnu)OR BY BHRAMA(relative knower)....BECAUSE WHERE THERE IS SHIVA THERE IS NO OTHER ............... WHEN SCRIPTURES SAY THAT VISHNU IS SUPREME ...IT IS INDEED TRUE BECAUSE WHERE THERE IS PERCEPTION OF VISHNU(space..in a duality world) ....THERE IS NO SHIVA.(state of oneness)................

AGAIN THE SCRIPTURES AT TIMES TALK ABOUT VISHNU AS space TATTVA and at other time as PARABHRAM .............at times they talk about SHIVA ..as TIME tattva ...and at other times as parabhram.......................all statement of scriptures are true when understood in the right context........but in this day and age people have neither time nor inclination to research everything ....

PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT THE ABOVE INTERPRETATION OF THE SCRIPTURES IS BASED ON THE INTERPRETATION ACCORDING TO THE "TATTAVAS"but there are many interpretations....based on jnana,bhakti,mantras,tantras,yagnas,kriyas(for kriya yogis).......etc......

the rishis who wrote the scriptures were GENIOUS....

but as JALALUDDIN RUMI ... the sufi mystic would say ......"we have all said and heard ..but as for the way to go Words are no prepration........

if anyone thinks that any of the rishis or a saint was a fool then he needs to look into the mirror to find an even greater fool(please dont take this personally---A request to all)

so everyone ..lets stop fighting ....just do your daily practice ..follow the rules ..and follow your guru....walking the path will reveal the truth through experience ..and then you would need no theory..........

atanu · 09-25-2007, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ---

---shiva is a state of monoism .....the scriptures say that there is no such thing as shiva and soul for where there is a soul shiva is not and where there is shiva there is no soul(duality ie the difference between the perciever and the percieved is lost)...it is the state of advaitic moksh or buddhist nirvana........it is beyond duality .....of existance and non existance............it is in this context that the statement (EKAM BHARM DWITIYA NASTI........is to be understood ..........EKAM BHRAM...ETC......DOES NOT MEAN THERE IS ONE GOD ...........IT MEANS THERE IS ONLY "ONE".......call this "ONE" as god or bhram or parabhram or WHATEVER.........but where this "ONE" exists there is no other .........

---

Namaskar,

Nicely said. Shiva is the substratum, where there is no dvittiya. Shivoadvaitamatama. ONE who never slumbers.

Om

atanu · 09-25-2007, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ---

---shiva is a state of monoism .....the scriptures say that there is no such thing as shiva and soul for where there is a soul shiva is not and where there is shiva there is no soul(duality ie the difference between the perciever and the percieved is lost)...it is the state of advaitic moksh or buddhist nirvana........it is beyond duality .....of existance and non existance............it is in this context that the statement (EKAM BHARM DWITIYA NASTI........is to be understood ..........EKAM BHRAM...ETC......DOES NOT MEAN THERE IS ONE GOD ...........IT MEANS THERE IS ONLY "ONE".......call this "ONE" as god or bhram or parabhram or WHATEVER.........but where this "ONE" exists there is no other .........

---

Namaskar,

Nicely said. Shiva is the substratum, where there is no dvittiya. Shivoadvaitaatma. ONE who never slumbers.

Om

indulekhadasi · 10-09-2007, 10:23 PM

Why are you people uselessly fighting? By the way Vyasadeva is a saktyavesa avatar of Lord Visnu.

Hare Krishna.