Bhagavad-gita "As It Is": How can you be so sure? - Page 2

jay74 · 12-06-2005, 07:51 PM

Ajit,

I have been following what you have been saying about BG and there could be some truth in it.

Approach I take it is different, if you can zone out some sections which you dont agree with and can purely concentrate on the philosophical ideas, BG is a masterpiece.

Reincarnation makes sense, various yogas to salvation make sense, sattwic/tamasic/rajasic qualities, non-attachment/renunciation makes sense.

Casteism was a great injustice and unfortunately present day brahmins are going to suffer forever but we need to look beyond.

jay74 · 12-07-2005, 11:01 AM

Ajit,

After your message and I started reading Gita in the order you gave me and it really makes sense.

Chapters 2,3,5,6 are basically
2- Yoga of Knowledge
3- Yoga of action
5- Yoga of Renunciation of Action
6- Yoga of Self Discipline

I have a full understanding as Krishna intended. There is only 2 fold path, Yoga of Renunciation (Samkhya) and Yoga of Action (Karma).

If you just read these 4 chapters there are no contradictions and no repetitions.

Thanks for your help.

12-07-2005, 11:25 AM

Hari OM

"present day brahmins are going to suffer forever"

For what? and no body would suffer forever

Why don't leave Gita and all and read some novels, which would more suit you.

jay74 · 12-07-2005, 12:06 PM

" For what? and no body would suffer forever"

Do you know what is happening in India?

It is getting impossible for FCs to get seats in Medical/Engineering colleges. South Indian states have close to 70% reservations.

12-07-2005, 04:46 PM

Casteism in BG?! I am wondering wat are u really reading. Is it the BG or something else in its name!

There is no mention of caste system in the entire Vedic Literature.. wat to speak of the BG. Watever things u are seeing/experiencing in present day india is totally unrelated to the scriptures and is their own perverted system of caste.

Please read a genuine edition of the BG and you wud get a clear picture of wat Lord Krshna says in that. For more info on wat Krshna is saying please chek out the fourth chapter named "CASTE SYSTEM CAST OUT" here :-

http://www.bvml.org/books/CaT.html

12-07-2005, 04:59 PM

There are so many wonderful things in the path of spirituality and the number 18 is also one of them. Bhagavan Sage Vyasa composed the BG to be 18 chapters only initially and intentionally. It was not jst an accident. Because 18 is a very important number and mystical one in the entire vedic knowledge.

Just fyi, there are 18 chapters in the BG, the mahabharatha war was fought for 18 days, there are 18 thousand verses in the srimad bhagavatham, there are 18 main upanishads, there were 18 akshauhinis which fought in the war, the names of 18 conch shells are mentioned in the BG, the mentioning of that ends in the 18th verse, the numbers of the horses, elephants, soldiers, chariots etc in the war each individually add to get 18, and many more 18s are there in the entire vedic philosophy. So, please dont confuse yourself more with BG having less chapters and then it got added etc etc. thats all Bogus without any good foundation and its all blind belief.

We cannot afford to jst take some part of the BG and say thats all I want. NO. Thats like the farmer saying that I just want the back part of the chicken which lays eggs and i dont want the front part of the chicken which I have to feed everyday! thats impossible. We have to take whole of the BG and study it under the light/guidance of a spiritual master.

12-08-2005, 12:05 AM

Hari OM

i asked for what? not how? so your answer is irrelevant

inspite of all reservations and hate, brahmins are still the prosperous and happy group. Because most of them are still honest, god-loving, hard working and non-emotional types. So you may think that by denying jobs in your government you can make us suffer, but foreign companies will come to India and give them jobs.

If you prevent that also then still we will go out and get jobs.

No body can make others suffer or enjoy arbitraliy, it is ones own good or bad karma which makes people enjoy/suffer, karma can't be changed how much ever big group you collect, how much loud noise you make or how many bombs you explode. Whenever dispensing justice Vishnu is called "Acthua" one who does not move from the axis come what may.

jay74 · 12-08-2005, 01:06 AM

Let me get this straight, I have nothing against Brahimins and some of my closest freinds are Brahmins.

I was just making a statement on practical matters. Most of the violence on SC/STs are done by OBCs. But OBCs are such a majority that they will always have political strength. If you look at demographics OBCs make up close to 50%, SC/STs make up 25%, FCs make up 5-10%, muslims/others make up the rest.

Brahmins of this generation who have not discriminated against anyone suffer the most because they dont necessary numbers to influence elections. Any time there is some caste based discrmination then it is very easy to point finger at Brahmins.

12-08-2005, 09:33 AM

Dear Hebbar,
The so-called vedic system of Varnashrma as told in the captioned article is a myth .Varna & caste have alwys gone togther . The varna was always decided on birth.In BhagwatGita the verse, CHATURWRNA MAYA SRUSTI----- ETC. is denoting that thse four classes have been created by me[i.e. Bhagwan shrikrina] and does not denote that individuals will be assigned there warna based on the karma. There are several verses throughout vedic books about how a brahmin is always to be worshipped even if he is illerate.Manusmriti lays down that a 10 year old brahmin is more venerable than a knowledeble 100 year old khastriya.
This raises another practical difficulty i.e. who or what authority is going to assign these warnas ,at what age & how?. If you decide that a person is brahmin then at what age you hold the thread ceremony. No where in vedas,puranas or bhagwat any mention that any such warna determination was done with the sole exception of Satyakam Jabal. In his case because he admitted that his mother Jabali could not tell him whose son he was.
When we try to make arguments like warna was decided based upon [a] permormance[b] learning etc we forget the fact the society needs an organisation for that.For example we are very fond of saying that a true bramin used to follow knowledge we do not ask the question what knowledge? reciting of vedas, puranas and presiding over pujja &yagna this is what majority of brahmins did ,which can hardly be called knowledge.
by the way jay74 thanks for your comliments, you caught the point about four chapters perfectly

12-08-2005, 10:33 AM

Hari OM
" that they will always have political strength"

nothing can be said for always, things changes as they tell only change is permanent

12-08-2005, 12:01 PM

What do u mean there are no examples of Varna system!

Watever scriptures we are reading composed by Bhagawan Rishi Vyasa was the song of a prostitute by birth!!

Narada.. one of the greatest devotee was the son of a maid-servant by birth!!

Prahlada was the son of a Rakshasa/Asura by birth!!

Almoooost evvvery other such great devotee has such similar life history.

so goin according to ur thinkin.. few hundred years from now.. ppl will speak that engineers,doctors were castes by birth and not qualification and work.. wat do think of that proposition? huh? Very nice?

AND AGAIN U ARE TAKING ONLY HALF OF THE VERSE.. please try to see the full sloka.. here it is:-
"chatur varNam maya sristam, guna karma vibhagashah"
Krshna is not talking of any individuals here in this verse.. its the different varnas and on wat basis have they been created is mentioned.

And just fyi, The qualities of a Brahmin are given in the Bhagavad-gita itself:

samo damas tapah saucam
ksantir arjavam eva ca
jnanam vijnanam astikyam
brahma-karma svabhava-jam

"Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, knowledge, wisdom and religiousness--these are the natural qualities by which the brahmanas work." (Bhagavad-gita 18.42)

and when u say that somethings are mentioned extensively in the scriptures.. please try to give the exact quotes or atleast the basic explanation with information so that we can refer back and see.

And you said:-
>reciting of vedas, puranas and presiding over pujja &yagna >this is what majority of brahmins did ,which can hardly be >called knowledge.

How do u know that this is ONLY wat they did?! and we shud not assume that everyone is like us. i.e., just reciting scriptures without any understanding and without knowing sanskrit!! like a tape-recorder. come on man.. think with an open mind.

12-11-2005, 10:11 AM

1] Bhagwan Vyas was not son of a prostitute, he was son of Mastyagandha who was a virgin fisherwoman.Maharshi Parasher who was Veda authority had sex with her in her boat. Privacy was created by creating fog. she was given the following boons[Vardaans] by Parasher. The son born will arrange Vedas into four parts,she would become virgin after delivering the child,she would have a natural body perfume instead of odour and so will be known as Yojangandha.
2]According to Mahabharat, Narad was the son of Kashyap and his mother was one of the daughters of Daksha. Daksha prajapati was a Kashtriya. As above children of Brhmin fathers if influential were permitted to be brahmin

3] Pralhad never became Brahmin.He was accepted as a great devotee, but then Bhakti has alwys been permitted for everyone.
The Bhakti devotees belong to all classes because that is permitted but not the brahminc rituals.
I am saying the same thing about 'CHATURWARNA MAYA SRISHTI'
THAT IT IS ABOUT THE CLASSES & NOT ABOUT DETERMINATION OF WARNA OF AN INDIVIDUAL .TO MAKE IT CLEAR BHAGWAN SAYS THAT I HAVE CREATED THESE FOUR CLASSES AND SO DIVIDED THE
MANKIND.
Can you please tell me what knowledge brahmans were persuing?In fact by prohibiting any writing to ordinary Shudras brahmins stopped all techical development in our country.We have a number of things to be proud of Such a Bharta's Natyashastra,Decimal system,Watsyayans's Kaamsutra,Aryabhatta's astronomy,Shusruta and Charak's Ayurveda Sanhita etc. But all this flowering was nipped in the bud by Brahmins by saying persuit of all these is prohibited for Brahmins.
let us be proud of things which were great but let us not justify something like chaturwarna which has always been a blot on all human values. Dear hebbar, please understand that it was not the execution of the system which was faulty ,the system itself was monstrous.