Dear naga ganesan,
This reference to dualism was fascinating, could you
please elaborate on this a bit and maybe suggest a
feww reference for the ignorant ones like me..
looking forward....
v

--- naga_ganesan@... wrote: >
> Dualism - sharp focusing and differentiating
> between
> good and evil, light vs. darkness, is seen in RV
> and Avestan
> gathas. Many academic books have been published
> about
> the entry of the "duality" idea in the Bible
> from the Near East.
> The last chapter on apocalypse is said to be an
> influence
> from this aspect of Zoroasterism, and many books
> detailing this
> are available.
>
> The duality of black vs. white equated with evil
> vs. good
> is absent in old Tamil literature. For the
> duality entering
> from Near East into the Bible, I, among others,
> have given
> references
> in a series, "Black as Evil" and so on from
> INDOLOGy at Liverpool
> website.
>
> What I find interesting is that the growth of
> Indo-Aryan
> languages in India was accompanied by
> emphasizing the
> Duality aspects. Just as Black vs. White
> dualism,
> there are two more: 1) the Indus valley tantra
> aspects
> put down vs. Ascetism and 2) the bull-man cult
> of NE/IVC
> submerged vs. Cow venerated in the RV. Contrast
> this
> with the fact that no cows are represented in
> Indus seals.
>
> Regards,
> N. Ganesan
> --- In indictraditions@y..., Michael Witzel
> <witzel@f...> wrote:
> > SEMITIC RELIGIONS?
> >
> > On this and on some other related lists, the
> view has been uttered
> > repeatedly that it was the Semitic (or 'Semetic'
> or even 'Semtic'!!)
> > religions that have formed the European
> (Christian) world view, a
> > view that was increasingly introduced in India by
> the educational
> >changes instigated and institutionalized by
> Macaulay in the 1830s.
> >
> > Forgetting, for the moment, the heated
> contemporary debates inside
> >the British colonial service (of the E. India
> Company) and beyond, it
> >must be pointed out that there is nothing
> specifically "Semitic"
> >about the European point of view. The Semites, in
> case the ancient
> >Hebrews and later on the Arabs, took over much of
> their view of the
> >world directly or indirectly ...from the Aryans.
> >
> > I am speaking of course of Zarathustra. Being a
> Eastern Iranian, he
> >is as good an Arya as any Rigvedic poet. The Avesta
> and the Old
> >Persian inscriptions call their own peoples "Ariia,
> Ariya," just as
> >the Rigvedic and later Vedic peoples call
> themselves "Arya" and as
> >they all call their speech "Aryan speech."
> >
> > To begin with, if one reads the Gathas of
> Zoroaster even just a
> >little bit, one will discover that they contain
> much of the same
> >language, religion and ritual as the Rigvedic
> hymns: there is god
> > Ahura (the still *positive* Asura of the Rigveda),
> Airyaman
> >(Aryaman), there are the Haoma (Soma) and Fire
> rituals, there is
> >the Zaotar (Hotar) priest such as Zoroaster
> himself,
> > there is Asha (from *arta, = Rta 'active Truth'),
> etc. etc.
> >
> > What is new in Zarathustra's teaching is his
> insistence on the
> >INDIVIDUAL CHOICE his followers have to make
> between 'good' and
> >'evil'. Asha (Rta, active Truth) and Druj (Druh,
> active Untruth,
> >Deceit) are of course prominent Rigvedic concepts
> as well, but
> >Rigvedic people were not as pressed by their
> poets/priests to adjust
> >as the early Zoroastrians were. And they were not
> as condemned if
> >they did not always follow the path of Rta.
> Vasistha himself
> >suspects that he did not (RV 7.88-89) and he asks
> > Varuna for forgiveness and release from
> druh/anrta-induced illness.
> >
> > But Zarathustra says, quoting Helmt Humbach's
> translation of
> >Zarathustra's Gathas, Yasna 30.3-4 :
> >
> > "(3) There are the two spirits (present) in the
> primal (stage of
> one's
> > existence), twins who had become famed
> (manifesting themselves as)
> the two
> > (kinds of) dreams, the two (kinds of) thoughts
> and words, (and the
> two
> > kinds of) actions, the better and the evil.
> > And between these two, the munificent discriminate
> rightly, (but)
> not the
> > miserly.
> > (4) And when these two spirits confront each
> other (to vie for a
> person),
> > then (that person) decides (of what nature will
> be) the primal
> (stage of
> > his existence):
> > vitality and lack of vitality, and (on the other
> hand) of what
> nature (his)
> > existence will be in the end:
> > that of the deceitful (will be) the worst, but
> best thought will (be
> in
> > store) for the truthful one....
> > (31.20) He who may approach the truthful one,
> splendor will be his
> > (reward), (as contrasted) with weeping.
> > A long life in darkness, foul food (and ) the
> word 'woe": to that
> > existence (your) religious view will lead, O you
> deceitful, on
> account of
> > your own actions" ... " etc. etc.
> >
> > Sounds familiar?
> >
> > If the whole of the Avestan corpus would be
> compared, we would
> discover :
> > the good Spirit and the evil Spirit, the future
> Savior from the East
> (Hamum
> > lake), the guardian spirits, the final judgment,
> the falling into
> molten
> > iron of the wicked at the time of judgment, the
> reaching of
> paradise -- an
> > Iranian word anyhow: pari-daeza 'the enclosed
> (park)' etc. etc.
> >
> > In other words, it was not a Semitic perspective,
> it rather was the
> Eastern
> > Iranian, Aryan Zarathustra who 'invented' this
> "Semitic" religion
> by
> > emphasizing certain aspects of traditional Aryan
> religion and
> deemphasizing
> > others.
> >
> > The ancient Hebrews copied a lot of it under the
> late Mesopotamian
> and
> > early Persian kingfs in the 7th and 6th centuries
> BCE, so that the
> > Essenes, contemporaries of Jesus, often sound more
> Iranian than
> Jewish (a
> > fact usually overlooked by most Christians, or PBS
> for that matter!)
> >
> > Fact is, that the whole of the Near East was a
> huge hotchpotch at
> that
> > time, with ideas being copied left and right by
> all people involved,
> --
>
=== message truncated ===


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