How do you trust so-called devotees who have no idea they are NOT their material body that makes them so ignorantly judgemental and see and believe only what they want to see??

Such BLIND so called 'devotees' of Krsna actually stagnate true religion of Lord Caitanya and make it materialist and political.

The mundaners of in some Temple I know, are not the kind of Vaishnavas found in a bonafide Gauidya order. A self interested business yes, real caring humble devotee, NO.

Such 'people' even dresses like a karmi most of the time and frankly live like them too. Just being a ‘nice’ guy living in a Temple or up on near the farm, certainly does not make one a good selfless prideless devotee noe does it.

The Karmi qualities of these materialist Kali-yuga devotees, makes them so judgemental, they only see other for what they ignorantly believes they are, instead of what one really are deep in their hearts.

It is dangerous to judge people they doesn't know or hasn't seen for 16 or 20 years

Such fools and their juvenile immature Temple leaders, sanuasus and even 'gurus' 'visualizes’ what others may be based on their limited knowledge ignorantly based on rumour, hearsay, and resentment.


This is due to being so arrogantly self-opinionated. Frankly, ISKCON is nothing like the preaching movement was when Prabhupada was here and the Gaudiya math well sadly most of them in Western Countries and especially Australia don't even make the grade of what a genuin caring devotee humbly really is at present

"Judge not, that you be judged. For with what judgement you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? HYPOCRITE AND CAMILLION! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye." Matthew 7 : 1-3, 5

Yes truly humble devotees are always very rare. We must strive to be like them.

How exactly does one dress like a 'karmi'?

When action is undertaken with a view for a result.

However, Krishna says He prefer much a Karmi than an idle person.
A karmi is much better than a Vikarmi also.

Krishna proclaimed in the Gita, there is no action that He is forced to fulfill in this world, even then He act.

But to understand what is really beneficial for us is the action that neither yields +ve nor -ve results, viz. Akarma.

Yes, yes. I understand what a karmi is, I just don't understand how you dress like one.
Is it just wearing normal clothing or what is it? When I put on jeans and a t-shirt am I 'dressing like a karmi'?

Not exactly the cloth but in terms of pretense.. I mean a person pretending to be an Akarmi but is in fact a Karmi.

However, I'm not too much in accord with all that.

The Iskcon concept of Akarma is quite incomplete and also misleading.
Some of the profound concept surrounding that issue which have been explained in the Gita have been missed.

If tommorrow I leave my job and starts distributing Prasadam that does not mean from a Karmi I've become an Akarmi.

Whatever job I undertaking, the inward renunciation is important.

While distributing books and Prasadam, if still the thought of how much I will be able to distribute is tormenting me, then it is not yet Akarma.

Action should be undertaken zealously but with staunch inward detachment.

no blame to the Founder though, since me also I'm His Student.. but really different

All of this strikes me as being very true. It seems as if something internal should not have to be signified by something external, like clothing.

In someway yes.
But the outward garment is circumstance wise and should be cleared from greed though.

For example, MK Gandhi.. he was happy with his full clothes but prefered half naked not for show off or act of humility but because his subjects where themselves naked, no money for clothes.
Had it not been the case, he would have been well clothed. Likewise concerning his refusal to drink cow milk.. he chose not to drink because at that time Cows were not treated like one's mother.. knowing that being a politician he won't be able to do much, he chose as a matter of sacrifice not to have cows milk as a diet.

The outward dressing is dependent of the inward thought but the inward thought is independent of the outward dressing.
It is much of a mind game and purity, viz, renunciation of the fruit of action rather than action itself.

Amlesh, 25 yrs you say? Wise beyond your years my friend.

Had I not seen your post when I first visited this Forum, I would not have joined Audarya.

Since my very first day here, I had already put you as the standard that I would like to reach someday.

I've learned from you all here and ever remain indebted to you all.

My life is no standard believe me. My life has yet to live up to my mouth unfortunately, but at least I have found the right path...Krishna-bhakti and friends here at Audarya to share that with. Because of these blessing the future looks bright.

Haribol

Yes, we must be judged using the same standards we use for others. It applies to both individual people and religious movements.

Refresing.


Jai Sita Ram.
Jai Sri Hanuman

My answer is find the real devotees who know that they are not their body. Here is my page with some videos made from our daily bhakti satsangs in goa hope you like them

All good things (virtues) are perpetually lacking in this world, all except one. We can serve. If someone possesses more spiritual qualities we can serve that person by taking his/her association and sincerely assisting in an appropriate way. Thus we will feel uplifted and inspired... If someone has lesser devotional qualities and realization we can serve that person by giving mercy and love. Then we will also feel good. One way or the other we can always serve and that's what usually resolves and offsets all the shortcomings of this world which is otherwise full of issues. I am sure, we, as practicing devotees, all have this experience that service mood works well. It might be a challenge to always keep in this mood (at least for me), but the endeavor usually pays off well.

As far as I understand from Bhagavad-gita, Krishna-centered karma (nishkarma-karma) is a wonderful thing because it purifies the heart and makes one eligible to gradually come to the platform of nirguna bhakti-yoga, pure devotional service. There is no other way to purify the heart from those inclinations for karma. The process of Bhakti deals with anarthas and stuff, but if I have inclinations for karma I should go through the cycle: sakama-karma - nishkarma-karma - nirguna-bhakti... that is: 1st I can't entirely work for Krishna's pleasure (too many selfish material desires), but being a religious man I dedicate some portion of the results I obtain from my actions to Krishna (like donations and stuff) - that is sakama-karma. Then after some purification and by the mercy of Guru-Gauranga I get the inspiration to dedicate my professional work fully to Krishna and His devotees. By the time I possess a strong faith that my material needs and expectations will all be perfectly met automatically, so I don't even have to worry about it. Then on the strength of such an inspiration I work tirelessly day and night for Krishna. However, I still have the inclination for the type of proffessional work itself I just do it all for Krishna. That is nishkama-karma, in my understanding. Please correct me if I am wrong..
Then as a result of this purifying work and by more mercy of Guru-Gauranga I gradually come to the platform of complete absorbtion directly into the activities of bhakti with a clear vision of my goal in bhakti, off course. That is nirguna-bhakti-yoga.
All stages seem to be very important, as they are linked one to the other, and are all pure mercy of Krishna. Otherwise, Krishna would probablynot waist His time speaking the 3d chapter of Bhagavad-gita.
Please correct me if I missinterpeted something. I wrote this down just to refresh this in my brain.

However, Krishna expects something even higher from us. To conquer thirst and hunger. No Hankering even on the verge of death while facing hunger.
Your expectation that Krishna will cater for you is good... but it should not be for your personal motives. When Krishna provide you with resources, it meant for some higher motives.
He said in the Gitam.. those who eat less or much cannot attain me. The less and much is a very subjective concept.
All that are steps for that perfection...
The best way to note one's progress is to verify the non hankering and calmness in any situation.

Concerning work.. that is Swadharma.. it is accomplished only when one is in Akarma mode.
NishKarma Karma may contain one part of Akarma.. but Akarma is the perfection of Action.

I once wrote on that.
You can do a search on that issue.
If you cannot find, I'll make the proper arrangements.