sri:
Dear Deovtees of Lord, Sriman Narayana humble pranams:

This list is a great resource for those interested in learning,
there can be other lists, but not as a duplication of Bhakti

Other lists can serve focussed teachings, like Sri VachanaBhushanam,
Mumukshupadi, Tatvathrayam etc.

bhakti-list is THE general list for all SriVaishnavas.

We need to start a focussed learning and dicsussion for the following :-
Let bhakti-list be a place for these :-

> o Veda and Vedanta, particularly the principal Upanishads
> o Bhagavad Gita
> o Brahma-Sutras
> o Sri Ramanuja's commentaries on the above
> o Sri Ramanuja's Three Gadyas and the Nitya
> o The Alvars' Divya Prabandham and their commentaries
> o The works of Yamunacharya (Alavandar)
> o Sri Vishnu Sahasranama and other important parts
> of the Mahabharata
> o Sri Ramayana
> o Vishnu Purana

Please do not think of closing this list, there are many devotees who
are silent listeners and are benefitting from a open list as this one.

You have been a strong moderator and this helps the community.


azhwAr emperumAnAr JeeyAr thiruvadigalE sharanam

adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan
Mukundan Vangkipuram Pattangi
http://www.radioramanuja.com

Dear ShrI Mani & BhagavatOttamAs:

I think the sv-ritual sub-group is very well used. Now coming to the
bhakti-list, I do not think its scope and subject matter is directly
competing with other lists. I can only trace the lack of contribution to
the following. Basically, we are overwhelmed with information. Added to
that there are tele-lectures, innumerable web-sites, Tele-stOtra classes and
so on and so forth. These things unfortunately leave little time for any
worthwhile contribution to the bhakti-list that requires deep and sincere
study on the part of the contributor. As is always the case in all walks of
life, this of course does not apply to some of the gifted members whose
contributions we continue to enjoy.

Also in a lighter vein, Adiyen mentioned sometime ago that with all the new
rules the Bhakti list has become like a public television station.

One way of generating healthy and lively discussions would be to re-post
some of the good articles from the archives that the moderator would
consider worthwhile revisiting.

dAsan

Vijayaraghavan
Buffalo, NY


>
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>To Post a message, send it to: bhakti-list (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com
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>Archives: http://ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archives/
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Fellow Members,

I am forwarding other notes sent privately in response
to my question.

-------- Original Message --------

Dear Sri Mani Varadarajan:

Thanks very much for asking the reading public
about their feelings about the restructuring
of the Bhakthi List charter and guidelines for
submission of articles .I will venture to offer
some personal observations.

Here are my well meant comments as one , who has been
priveleged to take an active part in posting
articles in the Bhakthi list from June 1995 - March 8 ,2002:

1. Bhakthi List is the spark of many e-groups
dealing today with topics on SrI Vaishnavam. All of us owe you
enormous thanks for keeping this as a forum to
bring together BhakthAs around the world to get to know
each other , build sath sangams and feel rejuvenated
about their rich heritage. I have seen enormous transformations
in the individual lives of Members as they expanded
their awareness of our rich Darsanam and sampradhAyam.
It has been a pretty tolerant group and has been
managed to stay that way. Bhakthi List has an important
role to play.The question is : What can one do to
provide a personality to it along the lines that you
intutively came up with under tremendous time pressure of
some sort .

BHAKTHI LIST NEEDS TO THRIVE AND SERVE THE COMMUNITY
OF SRI VAISHNAVA KUDUMBAM .THE REDEFINITIION OF ITS
SCOPE AND GOALS IS A WORTHWHILE THING TO DO WITH
THE KIND OF READER INPUTS THAT YOU HAVE INIITATED.

Comments:
*********
1. The rules imposed from the top --without consultation of
a few resource people-- were hastily concieved , even if it
was meant to create some order from the chaos of the list
being every thing to every body. At this time , it is my
humble opinion , Bhakthi list is too restrictive .
The minute and probably untenable classifications
(sv-poetry , ritual , general) of today is artificial .

2. I can appreciate your reverence for AchArya RaamAnujA
and the logic for separation of the contributions along
Pre-RaamAnujA time frame and Post-RaamAnujA time frame.
It is not such an easy boundary to hold .

3. You should define strict rules on fund raising appeals
and sthala purAnams etc that you have indicated. I support
it. There are other places for them.

4. You have to reexamine the policy on Multiple
postings across many lists. I am seriously considering
limiting myself to release in fewer groups and only if
the moderator asks me to .

4.Regarding topics , When you focus solely on SrI BhAshyam
and other complex Sri Sookthis, you will find that you have
reached heights of understanding that are too rarefied .
Very few people can comprehend such topics without
rigorous training. You may or may not agree with me
on this point. Hence , introductory postings are needed
as generated by Post-RaamAnujA AchAryas for our benefit.

4. There is a general feeling , correct or not that
you are personally are not in favor of the works of specific
AchAryA(s) . That has turned off a few people . They felt
unwelcome and tok off to form other groups. Jury is still
out on the judgement about the relevance and usefulness
of these groups .They will have to change too based on
the audience needs .

5. There are some groups that want to establish a record
on the largest membership drive . Bhakthi group did not
need to do it, since it happened as a result of reader
interest. This is the proof positve of the value-add
of Bhakthi List before the changes.

In conclusion , I would like to see a restructured Bhakthi group
with fewer restrictions and a refined version of its goals
and missions based on audience input. This has just started
and will prove valuable.

:>}Dear members Namaskaram-s,

Shriman Mani's question speaks volumes about his great

dedication and decency; I feel this highlights his
humility and it perhaps leads all of us to do
effective introspection.

He even wrote "please be open and frank"! I am frankly
and openly putting my personal views.

Whoever could forget the enormous 'knowledge-rich'
discussions by erudite scholars, elucidating greatness
of Hindu Dharma and the kindness of Sriman Narayana
through the grace of the great Acharya Parampara.

Personally it opened for me those great doors of our
'knowledge and devotion granery' for my understanding,
helped me go nearer, wonder at and enjoy the beauty of
the hymns and scintillating accounts of the Lord.

I have benefitted immensely beyond imagination and so
are many of my friends who echo the same views.

Perhaps, perhaps "inclusiveness" which is absent [some
hurtful remarks are made->questionable name calling of
other Hindu-s as "cultists"] could be reviewed?

There need be no 'fears' towards creative
discussions--
["will it lead us astray/will we go out of bounds if
we permit openness" etc ]. It only could strengthen
us.

We can clearly define our limits in consonance with
'purpose-focus', 'tolerance limits','knowledge
enhancement' and "not being hurtful nor indecent to
anyone " etc. A little relaxation could be thought of
in the overall framework of our rules.

The list is definitely serving its noble purpose
undoubtedly.

Thanks
Murukambat Mani

Mani Varadarajan
There hasn't been much activity lately on the
> Bhakti List.
> Presumably this is because of the new guidelines I
> put in place earlier this
> year, and because of the proliferation of various
> Sri Vaishnava email
> discussion groups, each of which have their own
> focus.
> Given that this is the case, are the Bhakti List
> and related groups
> serving any useful purpose? I mean this as a serious
> question and not a
> rhetorical one. There is no need for this group to
> exist if members aren't
> deriving any benefit from it. It may be that the
> other groups are more than
> adequately satisfying the needs of Internet-aware
> people interested in Sri
> Vaishnava religion and philosophy.
> Or, perhaps the guidelines I put in place are too
> restrictive? I
> may have put the cart before the horse, but I would
> appreciate public
> comment on where members want to take this group and
> what they envision as
> its purpose. Please be open and frank. Thanks, Mani
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------
> - SrImate rAmAnujAya namaH -
> To Post a message, send it to:
> bhakti-list (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com
> Group Home:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bhakti-list
> Archives: http://ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archives/
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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Dear Mani,
I completely agree with Sri Vishwanath. This list and my association with
its members have significantly influenced my understanding of the Sri
Vaishnava philosophy and the rich literature of dhivya prabandham. I can't
think of this group closing down. I have expressed some of my thoughts about
the reasons for reduced activity and some suggestions.

We have been seeing a proliferation of new discussion groups and that
could be the reason for lesser activity in bhakti-list. I don't think that
the stricter guidelines are alienating the regular contributors. In fact, it
helps maintain the decorum of this group.

But in an effort to circumscribe the discussions, you have generally
restricted any postings on the post-ramanuja works unless they are directly
referenced to to Ramanuja's works. This could be a turnoff for some
contributors. While moderating the postings and making sure that they are
respectful and decent, we could relax those restrictions a little bit.

The idea behind logically partitioning the postings and creating separate
groups (sv-poetry, sv-rituals...)for each is good. But that could also
result in dividing the attention and eventually the user loses track of the
different groups. Rather than having many such individual groups, we could
have sv-poetry and bhakti-list merged together. We could also merge the
sv-general, sv-rituals and sv-lectures together. There will just be two
groups (bhakti-list and sv-general) and all the current bhakti-list members
will be made members of sv-general as well.

Like Sri Ramkumar has suggested, we could take up postings of tutorial
nature. Some learned members could post a series of articles (not more than
2 or 3 at a time). Other members shall ask questions, clarify doubts and
generally embellish the discussions. And the series shall be throttled by
the user interaction. That will be a more healthy way of learning new
things.

Azhvar, Emberumanar, Acharyan thiruvadigaLE SaraNam,
adiyEn,
-Viji
(Vijay Triplicane)

Dear Mr. Varadarajan:

I hope your question does not lead to closing of this
very useful group. I came to this group as an
agnostic and in the short period of a year and a half,
I have turned almost 360 degrees to be a firm believer
in the tenets of our acharyas, the true meaning of
devotion and the purspose of complete surrender to the
Supreme being, Sriman Narayana. We have learnt how to
tolerate differing views without giving up our staunch
faith. I also learnt to respect other views without
giving up the great truths revealed by our great
Acharya. Please do not ever doubt the efficacy of this
group and the immense benefit it bestows on lesser
beings like me. Your laying down the rules and limits
for this group was timely and I do not think that
should hinder any of our discussions as before. My day
is never complete without going through the questions
and discussion on the Bhakti list adn I am sure there
are several like minded people like me in this group.

Hari Om. I too would like to add a few lines to what the other devotees
have said, especially my young (chronologically that is, but spiritually
far advanced) friend Ms. Kalaivani. We have all learnt a lot from this
group. And since I am a Smartha by birth, I am open to worship of all Gods
and Goddesses. They are all manisfestations of the same Absolute, Ultimate
Principle. I also submit that most of us (with me at the head of the list)
are far removed from the advanced precepts of Dwaita, Visishtadwaita or
Adwaita. What is common to all the three principal philosophical streams is
Bhakti. And Dear Mani, our group is aptly called Bhakti-list. So let us
focus on the 'COMMON' aspects of Bhakti, leaving aside esoteric aspects,
which can be discussed in more specialised forums.

I would certainly request that the group continues. Om Namo Naryana.

Swamy Swarna