Reply

Dear Sister Dixie,

Thank you for responding and sharing your concern. I would like, if I
may, to quickly make some points:

The distinction you make between faith and belief is lost on me. To
my mind, the terms are synonymous. I tend to look upon faith/belief
as the investment that seekers make in the unknown. All proof and
rationality must be purged from this variable. In other words, it is
what is left over, after all that is explainable has been taken into
account and eliminated from consideration. I am not advocating the
abandonment of reason. Let reason guide you as far as it can; the
steps taken beyond that point are done in faith.

Any person of common intelligence can believe when clearly presented
with cause and effect. No special effort is required for this. It
takes some doing, however, for us to invest in something that is
merely hypothesized. That 'something' of course is usually
God/Guru/Amma/the Self/the unity of existence paradigm. Speaking
metaphorically, reason can be used as a step-ladder to take you to
the top of the bridge but then you have to jump if you want to taste
free fall. (That reminds me of the weird graduation ceremony for
sorcerer apprentices described in one of the books by Carlos
Castaneda - they jump off a cliff and the successful ones are able to
transit into a different realm while the rest end up smashed on the
rocks below as food for the buzzards)

About your comment on continually being in the "Show me" state: it is
not wrong to demand internal proof from your iconic figure, Amma in
this case. But it may be a wise idea not to keep moving the
goalposts. Lay down your standard of proof, set up the laboratory
conditions by doing your sadhana and then wait for the proof to come.
If this methodology is followed rigorously then, at some point, one
will be forced to either abandon the hypothesis or grab it with both
hands, hopefully the latter. And that is the point when one might
profitably abandon reason in favour of faith.

Finally, on enlightenment being an 'AHA' event: Yes, it may be true
that enlightenment happens all at once. But the fact that
enlightenment is a discontinuous event does not negate the fact that
this singularity occurs in the middle of a field where classical
relationships hold ie. cause begets effect and effort produces
results. Although teachers like Jiddu rail against all effort, as a
practical matter for the bulk of the seeking population, effort
happens to be the default state and its cessation can only come at
the end of massive expenditure culminating in surrender when one
comes face to face with the futility of it all.

One minor clarification: In my account, the Brahmachari did not have
an 'enlightenment' experience. At a certain point in his life, a
clear road sign emerged and he followed it, that is all. His
background and context (read karma and conditioning) may have created
the objective conditions which made it possible for that sign to
appear and for him to follow it straightaway but that is a matter for
speculation and theorizing.

I don't know if I am making any sense. I may be totally off my rocker
here but I offer the excuse that this is a quick response and move
on. I am not sticking around or coming back to face any brickbats on
this thread!

Regards and best wishes

Om Amriteshwaryai Namah

fg



> Dear Faint Glow,
>
> You indeed do have an audience of at least one! You raised a
question that I continue to struggle with and posted last week: am I
not awakening because I am in my own way? I'm still struggling to
find out why I have faith but apparently not belief....and why,
knowing that, do I continue to mentally rail against whatI claim to
want most?
>
> I have great faith that Amma is indeed an avatar and I do know
without doubt that she is intervening in my life in myriad ways -and
I know that, ultimately, all I need to do is accept that as the young
man you wrote about did. And yet, my mind keeps crashing about
trying to explain this to itself...sometimes I laugh that I lived in
the "Show Me" state too long. I am virtually unable, at this point
anyway, to let go of my mind and feel like the proverbial monkey who
gets trapped by a hunter when he refuses to let go of the peanut he's
grasped so he can withdraw his hand from the trap!!!!
>
> Someone on the list agreed with me that enlightenment should (and
apparently does) occur in a moment - the old "in the twinkling of an
eye." I get SO frustrated because I know within my heart that this
should be the absolute easiest thing to do-it feels like there's a
threshold and all I have to do is take that one step across it and
the whole issue will be resolved -unfortunately, I either can't find
the threshold at all, or I know exactly where it is and what it is,
but have, for some ungodly reason, decided to dismantle and examine
it bit by bit before I'll believe that it is indeed, THE threshold!
Intellectual baggage, I think, does indeed bite us in the butt...but
I feel like I continue to be tempted by every new piece of scientific
Samsonite that comes down the pike!
>
> Does anyone else struggle with the "AHA! It really COULD be this
way!" syndrome while knowing full well that the statement should
be "It IS this way - case closed, deal sealed."
>
> Namaste,
> Dixie

----- Original Message -----
From: faintglow
To: Ammachi (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 1:58 AM
Subject: [Ammachi] Reply

Dear Brother Faintglow,

Thank you, thank you, thank you! I actually printed your response to save it
- you addressed the issue beautifully.
It seems so funny to that I am a nationally published author (nothing big,
everyone; short stories, etc) , yet these issues leave me tongue tied on
paper!!!!

I suspect that most people are like you and see no clear distinction between
faith and belief because there probably isn't one! I think they separated in my
mind for two reasons: It seems that SO many people profess an intense "faith"
yet panic when a job is lost or serious illness strikes, etc.. It always makes
me wonder if they find God/Guru/whatever to be a comfort, but have no REAL
belief that their life is going as it should or that the outcome, regardless of
what it is, is perfect. I fall into that category sometimes - I "have faith"
that, for example, molecular structure is not the same for awakened beings as it
is for others....but string theory could prove to be an "AHA! I thought so!"
moment for me....proof for the faith I have that Paramahansa Yogandanda, Amma,
Christ have told us exactly how reality is and I have also understood correctly.

Belief seems different to me, and you actually used an example similar to the
one that caused me to separate belief and faith in my mind. If Mother told me
to jump off of a cliff, as the test you mentioned required, would I have the
belief to do so? I might take it on faith that She would only ask for something
if it were in my best interest, but would my all too human little mind allow me
to believe that my outcome upon the rocks was the right one? WOULD I jump?
I agree that reason is not altogether a bad thing, but it so frequently seems
to me that if I had one hundred percent belief - no doubts lefts, no attachments
(belief would require that all of those were gone because I've been told that
those aren't the lasting reality), etc, would not I become enlightened
imediately? That's what I meant by a threshold that only needs to be stepped
across...if I have faith that, as Amma says, there is no difference between the
Creator and the creation....but can't wait to see the Nova shows on string
theory to see what science says about the structure of the world, am I really a
LONG way
from absolute belief at this point? (No offense intended to others who are
waiting for the Nova shows!).

I try so hard but sometimes feel I fall so far from the mark I aim for...if
Mother told me I could walk on water, I wonder if I would still feel more
comfortable, even for a split second, if I knew the water was shallow enough to
prevent me from drowning! And I absolutely know that that is exactly what keeps
the threshold hidden.

Everything you said makes great sense and I truly treasure every word. But
we're reversed again - now I'm the one who hopes to have made a modicum of
sense.

Namaste,

Dixie


Dear Sister Dixie,

Thank you for responding and sharing your concern. I would like, if I
may, to quickly make some points:

The distinction you make between faith and belief is lost on me. To
my mind, the terms are synonymous. I tend to look upon faith/belief
as the investment that seekers make in the unknown. All proof and
rationality must be purged from this variable. In other words, it is
what is left over, after all that is explainable has been taken into
account and eliminated from consideration. I am not advocating the
abandonment of reason. Let reason guide you as far as it can; the
steps taken beyond that point are done in faith.

Any person of common intelligence can believe when clearly presented
with cause and effect. No special effort is required for this. It
takes some doing, however, for us to invest in something that is
merely hypothesized. That 'something' of course is usually
God/Guru/Amma/the Self/the unity of existence paradigm. Speaking
metaphorically, reason can be used as a step-ladder to take you to
the top of the bridge but then you have to jump if you want to taste
free fall. (That reminds me of the weird graduation ceremony for
sorcerer apprentices described in one of the books by Carlos
Castaneda - they jump off a cliff and the successful ones are able to
transit into a different realm while the rest end up smashed on the
rocks below as food for the buzzards)

About your comment on continually being in the "Show me" state: it is
not wrong to demand internal proof from your iconic figure, Amma in
this case. But it may be a wise idea not to keep moving the
goalposts. Lay down your standard of proof, set up the laboratory
conditions by doing your sadhana and then wait for the proof to come.
If this methodology is followed rigorously then, at some point, one
will be forced to either abandon the hypothesis or grab it with both
hands, hopefully the latter. And that is the point when one might
profitably abandon reason in favour of faith.

Finally, on enlightenment being an 'AHA' event: Yes, it may be true
that enlightenment happens all at once. But the fact that
enlightenment is a discontinuous event does not negate the fact that
this singularity occurs in the middle of a field where classical
relationships hold ie. cause begets effect and effort produces
results. Although teachers like Jiddu rail against all effort, as a
practical matter for the bulk of the seeking population, effort
happens to be the default state and its cessation can only come at
the end of massive expenditure culminating in surrender when one
comes face to face with the futility of it all.

One minor clarification: In my account, the Brahmachari did not have
an 'enlightenment' experience. At a certain point in his life, a
clear road sign emerged and he followed it, that is all. His
background and context (read karma and conditioning) may have created
the objective conditions which made it possible for that sign to
appear and for him to follow it straightaway but that is a matter for
speculation and theorizing.

I don't know if I am making any sense. I may be totally off my rocker
here but I offer the excuse that this is a quick response and move
on. I am not sticking around or coming back to face any brickbats on
this thread!

Regards and best wishes

Om Amriteshwaryai Namah

fg



> Dear Faint Glow,
>
> You indeed do have an audience of at least one! You raised a
question that I continue to struggle with and posted last week: am I
not awakening because I am in my own way? I'm still struggling to
find out why I have faith but apparently not belief....and why,
knowing that, do I continue to mentally rail against whatI claim to
want most?
>
> I have great faith that Amma is indeed an avatar and I do know
without doubt that she is intervening in my life in myriad ways -and
I know that, ultimately, all I need to do is accept that as the young
man you wrote about did. And yet, my mind keeps crashing about
trying to explain this to itself...sometimes I laugh that I lived in
the "Show Me" state too long. I am virtually unable, at this point
anyway, to let go of my mind and feel like the proverbial monkey who
gets trapped by a hunter when he refuses to let go of the peanut he's
grasped so he can withdraw his hand from the trap!!!!
>
> Someone on the list agreed with me that enlightenment should (and
apparently does) occur in a moment - the old "in the twinkling of an
eye." I get SO frustrated because I know within my heart that this
should be the absolute easiest thing to do-it feels like there's a
threshold and all I have to do is take that one step across it and
the whole issue will be resolved -unfortunately, I either can't find
the threshold at all, or I know exactly where it is and what it is,
but have, for some ungodly reason, decided to dismantle and examine
it bit by bit before I'll believe that it is indeed, THE threshold!
Intellectual baggage, I think, does indeed bite us in the butt...but
I feel like I continue to be tempted by every new piece of scientific
Samsonite that comes down the pike!
>
> Does anyone else struggle with the "AHA! It really COULD be this
way!" syndrome while knowing full well that the statement should
be "It IS this way - case closed, deal sealed."
>
> Namaste,
> Dixie


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