Re: To Keval on death penalty

12-14-2005, 03:52 AM

Keval wrote:

>> Your brother?? Yikes! If anyone deserved the death
>> penalty, Stan "Tookie" Williams did! If you want to
>> spend several hours chanting and sending out
>> unconditional love and/or Amma's love to someone, how
>> about to the families of the four people he was
>> convicted of killing. Not to mention the many people
>> killed or maimed by members of the Crips gang he
>> founded.

>> IMHO lethal injection was too good for Tookie.. they
>> should have brought back the gas chamber.

Dear group ~ I fear this will lead to another back and forth go 'round, but
I was happy to read that someone had prayed for Stan. As Temba has reminded
me, Amma regards even the most hardened criminals as her children, and many of
them are being reached through the Circle of Love Inside. Reading your post
pushed my sad button. Sigh... Even when I worked with families of victims ...
and these were people whose loved ones had been through hideous deaths, I
listend to their pain, and their anger, and even their desire that the person be
killed. But I have never felt right about it myself. Factually, the death
penalty has not been found to be a deterrent, and with new DNA analysis
available, many who were on death row have been found to be innocent. I am not
saying that Stan was innocent of his crime. I don't know. But we know nothing of
him as a person.

Last night I watched a movie. It was a hard movie to watch. It was called
"Monster" and was about the female serial killer, Ailene Wernous. But where was
the system when, at 8 years of age she was repeatedly raped and at 13 when
she was expected to earn money for her family and the only thing she had to
offer was her own body. I saw a lecture once with Elizabeth Kubler Ross. At the
time she was doing work in prisons. She said she had come to a frightening
realization. Since it was a realization I was living and struggling with, it
touched me deeply. She said, "Everyone has a black bunny in their life." She
said that to explain her realization that she was as capable of hideous acts as
any of the criminals she worked with. Then she told her story.

When she was a little girl, she had a black bunny that she raised from
infancy. She loved the bunny. Then one day her father ordered her to take the
bunny to the local butcher and have it killed for their dinner. That was the day
that she met what Jung would call her "shadow." If a person has not met their
shadow, they are incomplete. You must, like in the old Star Trek episode
(there are two Kirks ~ one white and one black ~ who war with each other until
they realize they need each other to live) meet your shadow. It can be a
frightening encounter. For me, it was even more frightening than the abuse I
went
through ~ to realize at the core of my being that I was capable of hideous
acts. It took me years to struggle through that. But I do know that many, not
all, but many who are in prison are like Ailene Wournous ... they had hideous
acts perpetrated on them; they did not learn or experience love. Society may
put such people to death, but only God/dess can truly know and judge them, and
God/dess would always choose love.

Jai Ma ~ Linda

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

12-14-2005, 09:38 AM

Bless you for this, Linda. Bless you for your honesty and open heart.

Your sister in Amma,

Pahari Maa
>
>
> Dear group ~ I fear this will lead to another back and forth goÂ.
> 'round, but
> I was happy to read that someone had prayed for Stan. As Temba hasÂ.
> reminded
> me, Amma regards even the most hardened criminals as her children,
> andÂ. many of
> them are being reached through the Circle of Love Inside. Reading
> yourÂ. post
> pushed my sad button. Sigh... Even when I worked with families of
> victimsÂ. ...
> and these were people whose loved ones had been through hideous
> deaths, IÂ.
> listend to their pain, and their anger, and even their desire that
> the person be
> killed. But I have never felt right about it myself. Factually, the
> deathÂ.
> penalty has not been found to be a deterrent, and with new DNA
> analysisÂ.
> available, many who were on death row have been found to be innocent.
> I am notÂ.
> saying that Stan was innocent of his crime. I don't know. But we know
> nothing ofÂ.
> him as a person.
>
> Last night I watched a movie. It was a hard movie to watch. It was
> calledÂ.
> "Monster" and was about the female serial killer, Ailene Wernous. But
> where wasÂ.
> the system when, at 8 years of age she was repeatedly raped and at 13
> when
> sheÂ. was expected to earn money for her family and the only thing she
> had to
> offerÂ. was her own body. I saw a lecture once with Elizabeth Kubler
> Ross. At the
> timeÂ. she was doing work in prisons. She said she had come to a
> frighteningÂ.
> realization. Since it was a realization I was living and struggling
> with, itÂ.
> touched me deeply. She said, "Everyone has a black bunny in their
> life." SheÂ.
> said that to explain her realization that she was as capable of
> hideous acts as
> any of the criminals she worked with. Then she told her story.
>
> When she was a little girl, she had a black bunny that she raised
> fromÂ.
> infancy. She loved the bunny. Then one day her father ordered her to
> take theÂ.
> bunny to the local butcher and have it killed for their dinner. That
> was the dayÂ.
> that she met what Jung would call her "shadow." If a person has not
> met theirÂ.
> shadow, they are incomplete. You must, like in the old Star Trek
> episode
> (thereÂ. are two Kirks ~ one white and one black ~ who war with each
> other until
> theyÂ. realize they need each other to live) meet your shadow. It can
> be a
> frighteningÂ. encounter. For me, it was even more frightening than the
> abuse I went
> through ~Â. to realize at the core of my being that I was capable of
> hideous
> acts. It tookÂ. me years to struggle through that. But I do know that
> many, not
> all, but manyÂ. who are in prison are like Ailene Wournous ... they
> had hideous
> acts perpetratedÂ. on them; they did not learn or experience love.
> Society may
> put such people toÂ. death, but only God/dess can truly know and judge
> them, and
> God/dess wouldÂ. always choose love.
>
> Jai Ma ~ Linda
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Aum Amriteswarayai Namaha!
>
>
>
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>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

12-15-2005, 07:00 AM

Excellent post !!

It is true that everyone is capable of doing hideous acts - it is
something our fellow devotees like ckinley & Keval have to remember
when deriding and judging others. Santana dharma says be pure in
thought, word & deed. Word & deed we understand but why thought?
Thought is very important too. Consider what Osho had to say - Beyond
the conscious & unconscious mind is the collective unconscious where
all our thoughts are collected.When we think a bad thought it stays in
the collective unconscious and this thought can overtake a weak mind
and cause them to do horrible things. How many times have we heard
some people saying a voice in their head asked them to commit a
certain act! So we should remember that we are personally responsible
for all good & BAD(because of our intentional negative thoughts)
happening in this world. That's why Santana Dharma places importance
on personal responsibility - transform yourself first before blaming
the world.

> Dear group ~ I fear this will lead to another back and forth go
'round, but
> I was happy to read that someone had prayed for Stan. As Temba has
reminded
> me, Amma regards even the most hardened criminals as her children,
and many of
> them are being reached through the Circle of Love Inside. Reading
your post
> pushed my sad button. Sigh... Even when I worked with families of
victims ...
> and these were people whose loved ones had been through hideous
deaths, I
> listend to their pain, and their anger, and even their desire that
the person be
> killed. But I have never felt right about it myself. Factually, the
death
> penalty has not been found to be a deterrent, and with new DNA
analysis
> available, many who were on death row have been found to be
innocent. I am not
> saying that Stan was innocent of his crime. I don't know. But we
know nothing of
> him as a person.
>
> Last night I watched a movie. It was a hard movie to watch. It was
called
> "Monster" and was about the female serial killer, Ailene Wernous.
But where was
> the system when, at 8 years of age she was repeatedly raped and at
13 when
> she was expected to earn money for her family and the only thing
she had to
> offer was her own body. I saw a lecture once with Elizabeth Kubler
Ross. At the
> time she was doing work in prisons. She said she had come to a
frightening
> realization. Since it was a realization I was living and struggling
with, it
> touched me deeply. She said, "Everyone has a black bunny in their
life." She
> said that to explain her realization that she was as capable of
hideous acts as
> any of the criminals she worked with. Then she told her story.
>
> When she was a little girl, she had a black bunny that she raised from
> infancy. She loved the bunny. Then one day her father ordered her to
take the
> bunny to the local butcher and have it killed for their dinner. That
was the day
> that she met what Jung would call her "shadow." If a person has not
met their
> shadow, they are incomplete. You must, like in the old Star Trek
episode
> (there are two Kirks ~ one white and one black ~ who war with each
other until
> they realize they need each other to live) meet your shadow. It can
be a
> frightening encounter. For me, it was even more frightening than
the abuse I went
> through ~ to realize at the core of my being that I was capable of
hideous
> acts. It took me years to struggle through that. But I do know that
many, not
> all, but many who are in prison are like Ailene Wournous ... they
had hideous
> acts perpetrated on them; they did not learn or experience love.
Society may
> put such people to death, but only God/dess can truly know and
judge them, and
> God/dess would always choose love.
>
> Jai Ma ~ Linda
>