Re: Explanation required - Explanation provided

10-05-2005, 07:32 AM

Sardamma's words make a lot of sense. It would be of much help for
members in this group (Yes, including Xan, Tony and Richard) to read
Patanjali's Yogasutras (and if possible, Osho's commentary on it).
Patanjali has very clearly laid down the various stages one goes
through on the path of self-realisation... namely

1. Samprajnata samadhi (akin to the bliss of Zen Satori where mind is
still active). This is what Shardamma refers to as "blissful or
peaceful states of mind".

2. Asamprajnata samadhi (when there is cessation of all mental
activity/ conscious mind) which is still Sabeej (with seeds), that is
with unmanifested impressions/sanskaras still present in the
unconscious, and

3. Nirbeej (without seeds) samadhi, which is the ultimate stage where
all the unmanifested impressions/sanskaras have exhausted themselves
completely and one is totally free and would not be reborn again.

Remember, Ramana, Buddha and J Krishnamurthy also had to be born once.
Some were born Videhas as they had already achieved asamprajnata
samadhi in the previous life and hence had no attachment to the body.
But, still they had to work out their unmanifested impressions in this
life and only after that they were Muktas.

Most of us are here on this group because we have experienced the
bliss of samprajnata samadhi at least once. It would be a big mistake
if we confuse it with self-realisation.

Please understand Sardamma's statements in this context (of
Patanjali's Yogasutras). There is no point in deluding oneself.

Now, coming to the question on why some teachers say self-realisation
is "simple, as our essential true nature is here now and always has
been" as Xan has put it?

That is for one of the following 2 reasons:

1. Most teachers (including almost all of the neo-advaitic teachers)
have not advanced beyond the state of samprajnata samadhi. They feel
that's the ultimate bliss. Hence you would find them teaching their
disciples the same. You would invariably find them falling prey to
either sex, drug abuse, violence etc. at some stage or the other,
because they are not even Videha's... they still have to reach
cessation of the conscious mind (forget the unconscious mind).

Any serious sadhak should as soon as possible graduate away from such teachers.

2. Very few teachers (including someone like J Krishnamurthy) are born
Videha's... and hence have no memories of the previous life when they
did enormous Sadhana to move from samprajnata samadhi to asamprajnata
samadhi. For them, there is no attachment to the body at all... and
they don't remember any efforts they have taken to overcome
attachment to the body. Hence they teach their disciples that the
path is 'effortless'... which is far away from the fact (which they
have treaded themselves in the previous birth).

On the other hand, some teachers such as Buddha, Ramana, Nisargadatta
and Patanjali himself were not born Videhas. They first achieved the
Videha (sabeej asamprajnata samadhi) state and then the Nirbeej
samadhi stage in the same life. They, therefore had memories of the
practice/efforts (meditation/self-enquiry/bhakti) they went through
in the current life to get rid of the attachment to the body and
exhaust all desires. Hence, you will find their teachings propounding
'effort'.

The effort/practice is needed till one reaches the Videha
(asamprajnata samadhi) stage. Beyond that its effortless.

Now, its upto you which teachers you want to follow. Remember, its
easy to get trapped by the mind opting for the easier.... effortless
option... but question yourself... and find out at which stage you
are? and whats needed in your case?

I would be very glad if David Godman can comment on this post... He
would be the best person having spent so many years with people at
various stages from mere Satori to Videhas to Muktas.

Love
Sachin

NB. This also answers the previous dilemma the group had on the Sex
issue. Its simple... as long as you are still in the samprajnata
samadhi stage, you clearly have the sexual desire/craving. Anybody at
the asamprajnata samadhi (videha) stage would not feel the sexual urge
because he/she has no bodily attachment.

-------Original Message-------

From: Xan
Date: 10/05/05 19:01:54
To: PracticeofSelfInquiry (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com
Subject: [PracticeofSelfInquiry] Re: Explanation required
.Some few teachers make awakening in the Self sound very esoteric and
difficult. Others say it is simple, as our essential true nature is
here now and always has been.Which do you prefer to take to
heart?Xan```--- "Era" wrote:> > From No Mind I Am The Self. David
Godman > > The experience of the Self chapter 19 > > Q: Some
people claim to have had brief experiences of the Self. Is this very
common? > > Saradamma: Many people make such claims but I doubt if
more than a few of them have had a genuine experience of the Self. >
> Because most people have never had a direct experience of the Self
they think that blissful or peaceful states of mind are glimpses of
the Self. The only real experience of the Self occurs when the mind
enters the Heart. > > Imagine a cave with a fierce demon in it. If
you go in to investigate, one of three things may happen: the demon
may kill you, you may escape through the cave entrance, or you may
break your head on the cave roof while you are trying to escape and
die as a result. Taking the mind into the Heart-cave is a little like
this. Either the Self destroys the mind completely, or the mind enjoys
the bliss of the Self for a while before escaping to the brain again,
or the strain of the experience is too much for the body and death
results. > > The true experience of the Self only happens when the
mind is completely absent, either temporarily as in samadhi, or
permanently, as in Self-realization. > Both of these experiences are
very rare. > > It is very difficult to make the mind go into the
Heart. Mostly it is too afraid of its own death to even approach the
entrance. > > The mental experiences of peace, bliss and stillness,
which devotees claim to experience usually, take place outside the
Heart. They are all in the mind. People who think that these
experiences are the reality of the Self are only deluding
themselves.> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~> love, Era> > > from >

10-05-2005, 05:38 PM

--- In HarshaSatsangh (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "Sachin Chavan"

> Love
> Sachin
>
> NB. This also answers the previous dilemma the group had on the Sex
issue.
> Its simple... as long as you are still in the samprajnata samadhi
stage, you
> clearly have the sexual desire/craving. Anybody at the asamprajnata
samadhi
> (videha) stage would not feel the sexual urge because he/she has no
bodily
> attachment.
>
>

all stages, states etc and their various categorisations and
classifications are enhancing the ilusion of a seperate entity - the
essence of maya - and its products, just like all kinds of siddhis
("spiritual powers").
though those disciplines are beneficial for mental and physical
health, they have nothing to do with real spiritual search for truth,
beyond providing "healthy mind in a healthy body".
real spiritual desire for truth can be satisfied only by incessant and
fearless self-inquiry. and the only true siddhi is "atma siddhi", the
knowledge/abidance in self/heart/truth.

yosy