Re: reincarnation - 1

Hi Vicki and all,

>Q:
> Is the Buddhist view, that there is no continuous
> entity answering to the ideas of the individual soul,
> correct or not? Is this consistent with the Hindu
> notion of a reincarnating ego? Is the soul a
> continuous entity which reincarnates again and again,
>
> according to the Hindu doctrine, or is it a mere mass
>
> of mental tendencies- samskaras?
>
>Ramana :
> The real Self is continuous and unaffected. The
> reincarnating ego belongs to the lower plane, namely,
> thought. It is transcended by Self-realisation.
>
>
> Reincarnations are due to a spurious offshoot.

These words "spurious offshoot" are not clear to me. Does anyone know what
the original words were or in what other way they have been translated?

Thanks,
Dharma

> Therefore they are denied by the Buddhists. The
> present state of ignorance is due to the
> identification of consciousness [chit] with the
> insentient [jada] body.
>
>from Be As You Are

The insentient body with which "consciousness"
identifies, is a thought construct.
Thus, thoughts are insentient.
Even more subtle than identification with
"the body" is the identification with thought
(which constructs the image 'body').
As thought is insentient, the entire
structure is false, which is
erected by thought in service
of the false identification of
"consciousness"
with thought. (Structure = time, religion,
science, art, history, human life, etc.)
With no identification with thought, any thought
may come or go, but no thought "binds."
There is nowhere to go or stay, as any place
to go or stay is thought-based.
Namaste,
Dan
Q:
Is the Buddhist view, that there is no continuous
entity answering to the ideas of the individual soul,
correct or not? Is this consistent with the Hindu
notion of a reincarnating ego? Is the soul a
continuous entity which reincarnates again and again,
according to the Hindu doctrine, or is it a mere mass
of mental tendencies- samskaras?
Ramana :
The real Self is continuous and unaffected. The
reincarnating ego belongs to the lower plane, namely,
thought. It is transcended by Self-realisation.
Reincarnations are due to a spurious offshoot.
Therefore they are denied by the Buddhists. The
present state of ignorance is due to the
identification of consciousness [chit] with the
insentient [jada] body.
from Be As You Are
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All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights,
perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and
subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not
different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of the
nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always
Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart to
be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the Truth of
Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It Self. Welcome
all to HarshaSatsangha.
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Service.

Yes, that's great Dan. There are a few people are two other lists
currently grappling with this.
In Theravada- the focus for understanding is on the point of contact
of 'I' and sight, sound etc.The twelve links,Dependent Origination.
Very little reference to anything prior to this. And not much public
teaching on recognition of the nature of mind, although I have found
a few references (pure mind) with the practices. Understanding
emptiness has to include understanding, insight into, Dependent
Origination and visa versa.
In Dzogchen, the twelve links (as an explanation of the causes of cyclic life) starts with:
"The beginningless nature of mind is empty, clear and unobstructed,
But its nature is not recognized"
Then follows the arising, or stirring of mental creations and the
production of dualistic appearances. Similar in expression as Thera.
So -this'no-where to go or to stay' would you also express as the
'beginningless nature of mind'? At least as a teaching device?
In Buddhist practice, the point of recognition of this is important.
Love,
Joyce
The insentient body with which "consciousness"
identifies, is a thought construct.
Thus, thoughts are insentient.
Even more subtle than identification with
"the body" is the identification with thought
(which constructs the image 'body').
As thought is insentient, the entire
structure is false, which is
erected by thought in service
of the false identification of "consciousness"
with thought. (Structure = time, religion,
science, art, history, human life, etc.)
With no identification with thought, any thought
may come or go, but no thought "binds."
There is nowhere to go or stay, as any place
to go or stay is thought-based.
Namaste,
Dan
Q:
Is the Buddhist view, that there is no continuous
entity answering to the ideas of the individual soul,
correct or not? Is this consistent with the Hindu
notion of a reincarnating ego? Is the soul a
continuous entity which reincarnates again and again,
according to the Hindu doctrine, or is it a mere mass
of mental tendencies- samskaras?
Ramana :
The real Self is continuous and unaffected. The
reincarnating ego belongs to the lower plane, namely,
thought. It is transcended by Self-realisation.
Reincarnations are due to a spurious offshoot.
Therefore they are denied by the Buddhists. The
present state of ignorance is due to the
identification of consciousness [chit] with the
insentient [jada] body.
from Be As You Are
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more.
http://buzz.yahoo.com/
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HarshaSatsangh/join
HarshaSatsangh Magazine and Website is at
http://www.harshasatsangh.com
All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights,
perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and
subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not
different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of
the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always
Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart
to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the
Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It
Self. Welcome all to HarshaSatsangha.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
.
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
Click for Details


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HarshaSatsangh/join
HarshaSatsangh Magazine and Website is at
http://www.harshasatsangh.com
All paths go somewhere. No path goes nowhere. Paths, places, sights,
perceptions, and indeed all experiences arise from and exist in and
subside back into the Space of Awareness. Like waves rising are not
different than the ocean, all things arising from Awareness are of
the nature of Awareness. Awareness does not come and go but is always
Present. It is Home. Home is where the Heart Is. Jnanis know the Heart
to be the Finality of Eternal Being. A true devotee relishes in the
Truth of Self-Knowledge, spontaneously arising from within into It
Self. Welcome all to HarshaSatsangha.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
.

At 03:37 PM 6/14/01 -0400, you wrote:
>Yes, that's great Dan. There are a few people are two other lists
>currently grappling with this.
>
>In Theravada- the focus for understanding is on the point of contact of
>'I' and sight, sound etc.The twelve links,Dependent Origination. Very
>little reference to anything prior to this. And not much public teaching
>on recognition of the nature of mind, although I have found a few
>references (pure mind) with the practices. Understanding emptiness has to
>include understanding, insight into, Dependent Origination and visa versa.
>
>In Dzogchen, the twelve links (as an explanation of the causes of cyclic
>life) starts with:
>
>"The beginningless nature of mind is empty, clear and unobstructed,
>But its nature is not recognized"
>
>Then follows the arising, or stirring of mental creations and the
>production of dualistic appearances. Similar in expression as Thera.
>
>So -this'no-where to go or to stay' would you also express as the
>'beginningless nature of mind'? At least as a teaching device?


Hi Joyce --

Probably as "the end of mind"
or "where mind can't grasp anything"

Could say "beginningless" ...
but why "nature of mind"

If there's no beginning, how
did it get defined as mind,
or as having a nature?

;-)

Beginningless Love,
Dan

--- In HarshaSatsangh@y..., Daniel Berkow wrote:
> At 03:37 PM 6/14/01 -0400, you wrote:
> >Yes, that's great Dan. There are a few people are two other lists
> >currently grappling with this.
> Dan

Namaste All,

Why do people have to grapple and intellectualise illusion? Why not
just get over it? Do what you have to do whilst your in it, but try to
accept it doesn't exist, never did......ONS....Tony.

Namaste All,
Why do people have to grapple and intellectualise illusion? Why not
just get over it? Do what you have to do whilst your in it, but try to
accept it doesn't exist, never did......ONS....Tony.
Dear Tony,
There's nothing to get over.
There's no one in it, to get
out of it.
How can an illusion accept
that an illusion doesn't exist?
Love,
Dan

--- In HarshaSatsangh@y..., Daniel Berkow wrote:
>
> >Namaste All,
> >
> >Why do people have to grapple and intellectualise illusion? Why not
> >just get over it? Do what you have to do whilst your in it, but try
to
> >accept it doesn't exist, never did......ONS....Tony.
>
> Dear Tony,
>
> There's nothing to get over.
> There's no one in it, to get
> out of it.
> How can an illusion accept
> that an illusion doesn't exist?
>
> Love,
> Dan

Namaste Dan,

One has to use a thorn to remove a thorn, or the thorn stays
in..ONS..Tony.

Namaste Dan,
One has to use a thorn to remove a thorn, or the thorn stays
in..ONS..Tony.
If one knows this, why would
one stick a thorn in his own
flesh, and then set about
finding a thorn to remove it?
Love,
Dan

--- In HarshaSatsangh@y..., Daniel Berkow wrote:
>
> >Namaste Dan,
> >
> >One has to use a thorn to remove a thorn, or the thorn stays
> >in..ONS..Tony.
>
> If one knows this, why would
> one stick a thorn in his own
> flesh, and then set about
> finding a thorn to remove it?
>
> Love,
> Dan

Namaste Dan,

That of course is the ultimate question, and the answer is it didn't
happen......ONS....Tony.