Re: Who is my guide to see God?

04-26-2001, 04:12 PM

--- In HarshaSatsangh@y..., "vicki" wrote:
> D: Can everybody see God ?
> B: Yes.
> D: Can I see God?
> B: Yes.
> D: Who is my guide to see God?
> Do I need a guide?
> B: Who was your guide to Ramanasramam ?
> With whose guidance do you see the world daily?
> Just as you are able to see the world yourself
> so also you will be able to see your Self if you
> earnestly strive to do so , your Self alone
> being your guide in that quest.
>
Namaste Vicki et al,

There is no God, God is dead as soon as one realises the self. God is
a concept, that's all. It is none other than one's own higher self.
God is another way of describing Saguna Brahman that's all, a concept
to describe and illusion.

Om Namah Sivaya.....Tony.

04-26-2001, 04:28 PM

On 4/26/01 at 11:12 PM Tony O'Clery wrote:

[...]
ºNamaste Vicki et al,
º
ºThere is no God, God is dead as soon as one realises the self. God is
ºa concept, that's all. It is none other than one's own higher self.
ºGod is another way of describing Saguna Brahman that's all, a concept
ºto describe and illusion.
º
ºOm Namah Sivaya.....Tony.

Thanks for the laugh Tony - please let me help:

ºThere is no self, self is dead as soon as one realises God. Self is
ºa concept, that's all. [...]

Somewhere there has to be a quote to "acknowledge" that...

Joy, laughter and humor,
Jan

04-27-2001, 06:11 AM

Dear Tony,

Looking for a way out? No moksha
Not needing to look for a way out anymore? Moksha.

This is it,
There is no more than this.
Nothing to question,
Nothing to learn,
Nothing to understand.

Love, Wim

04-27-2001, 08:46 AM

Namaste Vicki,

Even Ramana's 'I am', is God, is ultimately an illusion, for he is
talking of the 'Big I Am' ie Saguna Brahman. So the Self is an
attribute, and at the same time a generic term. God as a concept is
strictly Saguna.

Of course we are talking about a step are we not? For becoming a
jivanmukti means dropping all illusion on death. Moving to a Nirguna
State, without any connection at all.

Lets see how this one works its way out.
Om Namah Sivaya. Tony

--- In HarshaSatsangh@y..., "vicki" wrote:
>
>
> "God is Guru is Self."
> ***
> "The Self is God. "I am" is God."(Maharshi)
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Namaste Vicki et al,
>
> There is no God, God is dead as soon as one realises the self. God
is
> a concept, that's all. It is none other than one's own higher self.
> God is another way of describing Saguna Brahman that's all, a
concept
> to describe and illusion.
>
> Om Namah Sivaya.....Tony.
>
>
>
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04-27-2001, 12:42 PM

Dear Tony,

You wrote:
> Talking from a dwaitic point of view perhaps but from an advaitic
> point of view this is all a dream that never happened. There is no
> beginning to it but there can be an end.....Realisation/Moksha.

What do you know yourself Tony, really know?

And besides, have you ever attempted to answer the question: " Who am I?"
without words, without thoughts... but with your physical faculties..., the
full conglomerate of being.

There is no point of view... Tony, 'no dualist', no 'non-dual' point of
view.
In 'viewpoints' nothing is really viewed, nothing is really seen with your
own real eyes, nothing is pointed at or touched with your own real
fingers...

Get to your senses, Tony.... Come to your senses...

When you finally un-inhibited and fully sense again, will you overcome the
'erroneous' idea of separation... You will fall into oneness, you will fall
in love...

Your senses are NOT in the way,
your per-ceptions ARE NOT in the way,
con-ceptions ARE.

(Btw, concepts are never our own...)

Senses are the only means to re-discover and re-cognize oneness...
And
Senses are so lovely to enjoy in playful, mutual and reciprocal celebration.

Why the fear... who put that in you?

(Btw, fear is never our own... it is instilled in us)

Eventually your senses will be so fine-tuned...
you will per-ceive without any doubt at all
the epiphany of unquestioned validity of being,
the given, the human / divine condition,
the graces, the gifts that we are to one-another.

All that is...
Playful, timely and spacely representations
of this all & one

Per-ceive and re-ceive
the full subtlety of unity/diversity at once

Receive... recapture.

Holding your love again within and without.

Ah, the lostness in love,
when the aberrated mind does not interfere with senses anymore,

Absolute self-evidence of being.
you feel
you touch
you see
you taste
you hear
at once

Ah, the senses...
There is actually no other way, Tony... you man with a body, a tongue,
fingers, skin, lips, a heart, who eats and walks and can snap his fingers.
It is that simple... believe your eyes, etc... believe yourself, trust me...
it works.

Believe not your mind's eye, the speculations mirrored to you from afar,
blinding your real eyes, the mind become the mirage.
The mind is not really that, but has become that. Whatever your mind comes
up with now, whatever understanding it seems to offer... it is in error.

There is nothing to understand...
not even me...
Life is direct, acute, immediate....
when you come to,
coming to your senses...

Is that the problem perchance? Were you kicked out of that immediacy? Were
you made to lose touch... What did the perpetrators do to you?

Do not be held back, inside that mental vicious circle., the mind forever on
an errand.
Get out in nature bodily, touch something, plant seeds, swim, do some art,
work with clay, paint, sing, play an instrument, belly dance...

You will eventually sing, dance and be oneness.
You will lose your separated self in intense and heightened being.
You will accept that you are Tony, with a body for starters, living on earth
in an environment that calls for love, inviting you to join (yoga) into
oneness...
Play, Tony, play again.... man.

Play, the only way to overcome separation.

Viewpoints are only in the mind's pseudo power of illusiveness, its ability
of making things up into mental constructs...so that reality can be escaped.

The mind is not supposed to do that, but the traumatized person has been
forced to ab-use the mind that way.

Tell me of real physical traumas that happened to you, physical situations
that were terrifying and appeared or were made to appear physically
inescapable, until your mind found a pseudo way out... escapism.

Advaita is not escapism.

The way you understand advaita is an attempt to escape mentally.
Why would you, you are doing that already...

You actually do not know that, that is why I tell you.

Points of view are purely a mental posturing, something we think up to get
away with not having to face reality..., look it in the face, take it in the
hands, walk through it...

Love, Tony, Wim

04-27-2001, 01:14 PM

Namaste Wim.

Talking from a dwaitic point of view perhaps but from an advaitic
point of view this is all a dream that never happened. There is no
beginning to it but there can be an end.....Realisation/Moksha.

Om Namah Sivaya...Tony

--- In HarshaSatsangh@y..., "Wim Borsboom" wrote:
> Dear Tony,
>
> Looking for a way out? No moksha
> Not needing to look for a way out anymore? Moksha.
>
> This is it,
> There is no more than this.
> Nothing to question,
> Nothing to learn,
> Nothing to understand.
>
> Love, Wim

04-27-2001, 03:47 PM

--- In HarshaSatsangh@y..., "Tony O'Clery" wrote:
> Namaste Wim.
>
> Talking from a dwaitic point of view perhaps but from an advaitic
> point of view this is all a dream that never happened. There is no
> beginning to it but there can be an end.....Realisation/Moksha.
>
> Om Namah Sivaya...Tony

Wouldn't that end be *now*?

The end is here! The end is here!
The End,
xxxtg