Taking refuge: Outer and Inner

09-06-2000, 03:46 PM

Hello All,

So much appreciation here for your gifts of all the lovely posts.
Espoecially to John Metzger for the long story poem by Thich Nhat Hanh
and the various samadi posts by so many of you. While going thru a
rather quiet time for speaking myself, may I offer something back, on
which the inner refuges speaks to all. Much love, Gloria
---------------------------------------------------------------------_
->

There are two aspects in Refuge : Outer refuge and Inner refuge.
Outer refuge is so strongly emphasized in entering the path of
Buddhadharma. We take refuge in the Buddha as an example, in the
dharma as
the path, and in the Sangha as our companion. These are the three
outer
refuges.

In the initial ceremony, we're principally concerned with the outer
refuge.
1) We take refuge in the Shakyamuni Buddha.
2) We take refuge in the Dharma, the teachings of Buddha.
3) We take refuge in the Sangha, the Assembly, as our companion.

The outer form of refuge is simply a confirmation through our body,
speech,
and mind of the inner-most discovery of refuge, of taking refuge
simply
within our heart, within our mind. Taking refuge in the outer sense,
which
we are going through right now, is the process of re-strengthening and
confirming our confidence, our trust, and our basic sense of courage
in
order to further our understanding and realization of this enlightened
heart.

When we go further to talk about Inner Refuge,

1) We take inner refuge in buddha -
The innermost sense of refuge is the discovery of our own basic nature
of
mind which is the nature of Buddha's wisdom. We're making a commitment
to
discover our own basic nature as being the wisdom of Buddha, to
uncover
that, to work on the development of our basic potential of Buddha, the
dharmakaya Buddha. Dharmakaya is always within our being, within all
sentient beings. We possess the basic qualities of the Buddha from
beginningless time.

2) We take inner refuge in the dharma
Becoming one with the path of fully developing this discovery of
essence,
this discovery of seed. The point at which your mind and the Dharma
are
totally mixed, and you become the Dharma. Ultimately, it is the mixing
of
the meaning of Dharma with your mind such that your actions and state
of
body, speech and mind are always in accordance with the Dharma. So the
real
Dharma is realization and, as an ultimate source of refuge

3) We take inner refuge in Sangha
After you have discovered this basic heart of enlightenment, after you
have
familiarized yourself with that, internalized it as the path, then
whatever
comes out of it as a product and as a result is what we call the
Sangha.
The warmth, the loving heart which manifests out of these two first
discoveries is what we call taking refuge in Sangha. So that is the
companion. Our companion is loving-kindness, our companion is
bodhicitta,
our companion is love for others, our companion is compassion for
others.

Inner refuge is directed towards this seed of enlightenment, this
inner
Buddha-nature. We recognise that, ultimately, we are our own refuge.

At this point a question may arise. "If taking refuge is a matter of
relying on our own inner wisdom, why do we have a formal refuge
ceremony?
Why is this ritual necessary?" The answer is that it reminds us how
critical the moment of taking refuge is: it marks our arrival at a
crucial
insight into our own nature. So many times in the past we have sought
security in trivialities, but now we have discovered our innate
capacity to
fulfil the most exalted destiny of all: complete emancipation from
suffering. We are determined that, from this moment on, rather than
taking
refuge in ephemeral fictions, we will take refuge in our own pure,
clear
wisdom-energy and set out on the path to liberation. The ceremonious
action
of taking refuge strengthens this determination.

For vajrayana practises(Tibetan), there will be a total of 3 refuges.
Inner,Outer,Secret.
1) The outer refuge objects are the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha,
2) The inner refuge objects are the guru(Root of Blessing ), daka or
yidam
(Root of accomplishments) and dakini (Root of activities),
3) The secret refuge object is your own Buddha nature.

Varjayana traditions as mention above are a little bit different but
the
essence is the same.

Source :
http://www.zamba.com/BuddhasVillage/.../ly_refuge.htm
http://www.nalandabodhi.org/inner_refuge.html
http://www.nalandabodhi.org/outer_refuge.html

>Hi fellow brothers and sisters in the Dharma,

>I have discovered recently that there are some buddhists
organisation
>in Singapore are carrying out some funny ceremony which I think is
>funny. In part of taking refuge in Triplegem, they still carried out
>ceremony like taking refuge in certain specific Buddhas or
>Bodhisattava recently. Is it that taking refuge in Triplegem will be
>the same as taking refuge of all Buddha and Bodhisatta in all the
ten
>directions? Pls englighten me if I am wrong.

>With Metta,
>Johnny Ng
Cheers,
Dan

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09-06-2000, 04:26 PM

Greetings Gloria and all
Yes, much love to you, too, friend; my sentiment too
is "offering something back" for all the soul-food that
is served here. Thanks a lot, John

--- In HarshaSatsangh (AT) egroups (DOT) com, "Gloria Lee" wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> So much appreciation here for your gifts of all the lovely posts.
> Espoecially to John Metzger for the long story poem by Thich Nhat
Hanh
> and the various samadi posts by so many of you. While going thru a
> rather quiet time for speaking myself, may I offer something back,
on
> which the inner refuges speaks to all. Much love, Gloria
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
-_
> ->
>

09-06-2000, 04:50 PM

Gloria...

Beautiful... first read brought happy tears... re-read brought
more happy tears.Thank you.

Much love, Robert

PS - good morsel.

09-06-2000, 09:39 PM

Hi Gloria,
Thanks for the Refuge discussion. Its a topic thats been much on my
mind recently. You seem familiar with Vajrayana practices, and I'm
wondering if you would give me an answer or opinion on a question. And
also anyone else who is familiar with this topic.

In the Tibetan traditions, how much is Outer Refuge said to create a
link or bond to the Lineage and/or Teacher who is the preceptor for the
vows?

Thanks,
Lynne

09-07-2000, 11:54 AM

----- Original Message -----
From: Lynne
To:
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2000 12:39 AM
Subject: Re: [HarshaSatsangh] Taking refuge: Outer and Inner

Hi Gloria,
Thanks for the Refuge discussion. Its a topic thats been much on my
mind recently. You seem familiar with Vajrayana practices, and I'm
wondering if you would give me an answer or opinion on a question. And
also anyone else who is familiar with this topic.

In the Tibetan traditions, how much is Outer Refuge said to create a
link or bond to the Lineage and/or Teacher who is the preceptor for the
vows?

Thanks,
Lynne

-----------------------

Dear Lynne,

Actually, I know very little. Victor might help with this question, as he goes
way back with the Tibetans. But here's what I do know. Traditionally, the
joining with a teacher within a lineage, meant that he personally would take on
your training and discern your fitness for moving thru the various initiations
into teachings, which back in Tibet were mostly resreved for those in the
monastic schools and not so much given to lay people, at least the "higher
teachings." There are like 4 main lineages in Tibet, some teachings are held "in
common" with all four, then obviously there are some differences too. More info
is on the web, of course.

This system has not been so workable in the west, except for the fortunate few
who can hook up and be dedicated to a Tibetan lama (there just aren't enough to
go around to duplicate the one to one relationship of former times), and now
many of the teachings are disseminated in huge mass initiations of vow taking,
such as the Dalai Lama giving the Kalachakra initiation in Indiana this past
summer. Or thru books of course, teachings and other information are available,
even the esoteric. Victor recommends a terrific book he shared with me which was
out of print, but Amazon will have it again soon: Self-Liberation through seeing
with naked awareness. Some more closely guarded oral teachings do survive, again
not so readily available. A huge library of Tibetan texts exists, and much
remains to be translated into English. Annette (Rainbo) knows a couple people
working on this.

The above all might apply more to what you can be consciously aware of..and
learn with your mind. Direct contact with a teacher allows for more direct
influence, of course. Other than that, it is perhaps optional to your belief,
how much of a role grace plays in your unfoldment from behind the scenes of your
conscious awareness. To me, grace is like the whole shebang, tho some see this
as "too mystical." What was said in the original post about the inner refuge is
pretty much in line with Ramana saying that there is only one Guru, and it is
the Self. When you start hearing "the same thing" being said by all the known
'greats' of realization, you pay attention. There is often a forest obscuring
the trees, if you know how I mean this.

Victor recommends a terrific book he shared with me which was out of print, but
Amazon will have it available again soon: Self-Liberation through seeing with
naked awareness. Translation and commentary by John Reynolds.

If this doesn't answer what you are asking, please keep asking. I may not have
heard your question clearly. Thanks.

Gloria

09-08-2000, 04:20 PM

Hi Glora,

What a pleasant and well-written reply to Lynne! Good sense and good heart
shine from every sentence!

Love,

--Greg

At 02:54 PM 9/7/00 -0400, Gloria Lee wrote:

Dear Lynne,

Actually, I know very little. Victor might help with this question, as he goes
way back with the Tibetans. But here's what I do know. Traditionally, the
joining with a teacher within a lineage, meant that he personally would
take on
your training and discern your fitness for moving thru the various initiations
into teachings, which back in Tibet were mostly resreved for those in the
monastic schools and not so much given to lay people, at least the "higher
teachings." There are like 4 main lineages in Tibet, some teachings are
held "in
common" with all four, then obviously there are some differences too. More
info
is on the web, of course.

This system has not been so workable in the west, except for the fortunate few
who can hook up and be dedicated to a Tibetan lama (there just aren't
enough to
go around to duplicate the one to one relationship of former times), and now
many of the teachings are disseminated in huge mass initiations of vow taking,
such as the Dalai Lama giving the Kalachakra initiation in Indiana this past
summer. Or thru books of course, teachings and other information are
available,
even the esoteric. Victor recommends a terrific book he shared with me
which was
out of print, but Amazon will have it again soon: Self-Liberation through
seeing
with naked awareness. Some more closely guarded oral teachings do survive,
again
not so readily available. A huge library of Tibetan texts exists, and much
remains to be translated into English. Annette (Rainbo) knows a couple people
working on this.

The above all might apply more to what you can be consciously aware of..and
learn with your mind. Direct contact with a teacher allows for more direct
influence, of course. Other than that, it is perhaps optional to your belief,
how much of a role grace plays in your unfoldment from behind the scenes of
your
conscious awareness. To me, grace is like the whole shebang, tho some see this
as "too mystical." What was said in the original post about the inner
refuge is
pretty much in line with Ramana saying that there is only one Guru, and it is
the Self. When you start hearing "the same thing" being said by all the known
'greats' of realization, you pay attention. There is often a forest obscuring
the trees, if you know how I mean this.

Victor recommends a terrific book he shared with me which was out of print,
but
Amazon will have it available again soon: Self-Liberation through seeing with
naked awareness. Translation and commentary by John Reynolds.

If this doesn't answer what you are asking, please keep asking. I may not have
heard your question clearly. Thanks.

Gloria

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<<<<

09-09-2000, 08:13 PM

On Thu, 7 Sep 2000, Gloria Lee wrote:

>
> This system has not been so workable in the west, except for the fortunate few
> who can hook up and be dedicated to a Tibetan lama (there just aren't enough
to
> go around to duplicate the one to one relationship of former times), and now
> many of the teachings are disseminated in huge mass initiations of vow taking,
> such as the Dalai Lama giving the Kalachakra initiation in Indiana this past
> summer. Or thru books of course, teachings and other information are
available,
> even the esoteric. Victor recommends a terrific book he shared with me which
was
> out of print, but Amazon will have it again soon: Self-Liberation through
seeing
> with naked awareness. Some more closely guarded oral teachings do survive,
again
> not so readily available. A huge library of Tibetan texts exists, and much
> remains to be translated into English. Annette (Rainbo) knows a couple people
> working on this.

Actually, depending on where you live, it can be quite easy to find a
lama. There are 3 that regularly come through where I live, and one who
lives here. Not to mention a wonderful Zen master or two

.

i consider myself fortunate.

One note on mass-initiations, like the Kalachakra. Kalachakra is the only
highest yoga tantra that i know of that is given publically like that.
Other times, what i've seen for "mass" initiations are the outer tantras.
Things that require maybe a small commitment, and can be practised often
without the initiation.

If you remember me from before on HarshaSatasang, i get a little bit nuts
about what is "public" and what is stuff that should only be gotten from a
teacher. Its just that in my life, such wonderful blessings have come from
the traditional interaction, that i can't imagine wanting to only read
about it and not do it.

Its true what they say, when the student is ready, the teacher appears.
Actually the Guru was always there, the student finally learned to see
him/her is all

maitri, (lovingkindness in Sanskrit)

--janpa

09-09-2000, 08:41 PM

Hi janpa,

I've seen that too. There's a phrase called "nightstand Buddhists," for
those who just want to read about it, maybe to get nice feelings and
thoughts before drifting off to sleep. A whiff is enough, for the moment.
Imagine! All the books in Barnes and Noble and Amazon about Buddhism, and
how few folks in the meditation halls, temples, monasteries and retreats...

Amituofo!

--Greg

At 10:13 PM 9/9/00 -0500, Debora A. Orf wrote:

Its just that in my life, such wonderful blessings have come from
the traditional interaction, that i can't imagine wanting to only read
about it and not do it.

Its true what they say, when the student is ready, the teacher appears.
Actually the Guru was always there, the student finally learned to see
him/her is all

maitri, (lovingkindness in Sanskrit)

--janpa

09-11-2000, 09:56 PM

Hey, what is this ami - tofu? Mary keeps trying to poison me with tofu.
I love her just the same...

Love, mark
(still in fetus position)

Gregory Goode wrote:

>
>
> Hi janpa,
>
> I've seen that too. There's a phrase called "nightstand Buddhists,"
> for
> those who just want to read about it, maybe to get nice feelings and
> thoughts before drifting off to sleep. A whiff is enough, for the
> moment.
> Imagine! All the books in Barnes and Noble and Amazon about Buddhism,
> and
> how few folks in the meditation halls, temples, monasteries and
> retreats...
>
> Amituofo!
>
> --Greg
>
> At 10:13 PM 9/9/00 -0500, Debora A. Orf wrote:
>
> Its just that in my life, such wonderful blessings have come from
> the traditional interaction, that i can't imagine wanting to only read
>
> about it and not do it.
>
> Its true what they say, when the student is ready, the teacher
> appears.
> Actually the Guru was always there, the student finally learned to see
>
> him/her is all

>
> maitri, (lovingkindness in Sanskrit)
>
> --janpa
>
>
>

09-12-2000, 08:26 PM

On Tue, 12 Sep 2000, Mark W. Otter wrote:
>
> Hey, what is this ami - tofu? Mary keeps trying to poison me with tofu.
> I love her just the same...
>
> Love, mark
> (still in fetus position)
>

Amitabha, the buddha of limitless light. Western pureland.

Red in colour, sitting in meditation, holding a begging bowl.

Sits on Avolokiteshvara's head.

Also sits on Tara's head...

Amida Bul.

--jt