Re: neti yeti/Moller

03-21-2000, 08:59 AM

>M: It describes the classical neti-neti way, which I regard
>as a dangerous teaching because it presumes from the start that there is
>something to be found, just take all appearances away, and it will be there.
>This presumption will become a self-fulfilling reality, leaving the seeker
>with this presumed 'I' which is then equated with the Self. But we could go
>into this at another time if you like.

D: Greetings, Moller. Enjoying your commentary here.
There is no other time to go into this, only
now :-)
As seen here:
Neti, neti undermines the very assumptions that allow
one to use neti, neti as a process.
It ends thinking in terms of process, getting somewhere,
or knowing where one is starting, or who would be starting.
So, in a sense it may be dangerous, in the sense that disorientation,
the unknown may be dangerous. Yet, in the end, the negation
negates itself. Neti inevitably undermines its own position
to negate. It is a "tool" to be discarded, at the point
where there is no point, no place to stand.

If neti, neti "occurs" instantly and totally, rather than
one piece at a time, everything is instantly
thrown into doubt, even the basis for doubting anything
is thrown into doubt. Instantly "done" it is nonvolitional
and timeless. It ends the assumptions, the comparisons
that give a sense of time.

Certainly any assumption that something will be left
is to be discarded.
So my view of neti, neti is that it allows no place to
rest, no assumption, no affirmation.
The opposite of neti, neti is to include All.
Including everything leads to the inclusion of negation.
To include all is to negate all.
Creation and destruction are mutually interdependent.
To come into being is to go out of being, to
be is to be not.

Love,
Dan

03-23-2000, 04:33 AM

Dear Dan,

Yes Dan, as usual you are perfectly right. Yours is indeed a very
interesting presentation of this 'practice'. It could indeed undermine
everything even itself.

As an afterthought to my letter to Roger on some thing he send us about
Barry ?, I felt it may just be worth pointing to the traditional approach to
this method. They say take away everything, and what remains will be the
Self, reality etc. But they seem to approach the process from the position
that none of the things they reject are reality/Self. Ie, I am not my mind,
my body etc. To be able to say this, there must be knowledge of what the
I/Self is. So the whole thing starts with an assumption. If the Self is
All, and this Self is not my body, what is the body then?

So I was trying to point to this difficulty in this practice which can be
very misleading unless understood as you have so beautifully explained it.

Thank you for that.

love and respect,

Your Brother M
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Berkow, PhD
To: HarshaSatsangh (AT) onelist (DOT) com
Date: 21 March 2000 09:05
Subject: [HarshaSatsangh] Re: neti yeti/Moller

>From: "Dan Berkow, PhD"
>
>>M: It describes the classical neti-neti way, which I regard
>>as a dangerous teaching because it presumes from the start that there is
>>something to be found, just take all appearances away, and it will be
there.
>>This presumption will become a self-fulfilling reality, leaving the seeker
>>with this presumed 'I' which is then equated with the Self. But we could
go
>>into this at another time if you like.
>
>D: Greetings, Moller. Enjoying your commentary here.
> There is no other time to go into this, only
> now :-)
> As seen here:
> Neti, neti undermines the very assumptions that allow
> one to use neti, neti as a process.
> It ends thinking in terms of process, getting somewhere,
> or knowing where one is starting, or who would be starting.
> So, in a sense it may be dangerous, in the sense that disorientation,
> the unknown may be dangerous. Yet, in the end, the negation
> negates itself. Neti inevitably undermines its own position
> to negate. It is a "tool" to be discarded, at the point
> where there is no point, no place to stand.
>
> If neti, neti "occurs" instantly and totally, rather than
> one piece at a time, everything is instantly
> thrown into doubt, even the basis for doubting anything
> is thrown into doubt. Instantly "done" it is nonvolitional
> and timeless. It ends the assumptions, the comparisons
> that give a sense of time.
>
> Certainly any assumption that something will be left
> is to be discarded.
> So my view of neti, neti is that it allows no place to
> rest, no assumption, no affirmation.
> The opposite of neti, neti is to include All.
> Including everything leads to the inclusion of negation.
> To include all is to negate all.
> Creation and destruction are mutually interdependent.
> To come into being is to go out of being, to
> be is to be not.
>
> Love,
> Dan
>
>
>
>
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