Fall from Vaikuntha - Page 2

RadhaMukunda · 07-29-2008, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadheyRadhey108

Try: a frustrated little boy who has a superiority complex and communicative disorder.

He confirmed it.

bhaktajan · 07-29-2008, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadheyRadhey108

Try: a frustrated little boy who has a superiority complex and communicative disorder.

I'm afraid that is illegal except in some back alleys of some southeast asian cities.

But I'm sure you're sincere in your quest to rectifiy you own Inferiority complex. May God help your Blooming arse.

RadheyRadhey108 · 07-29-2008, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amlesh

A frustrated little boy or a frustrated Sanyassi sincerely surrendered to Hari is far much better than an exalted personalty devoid of the Bhagvata Doctrine.

Bhaktajan is the most 'exalted personality' of them all, since he thinks that we must surrender to him. He's vain, pompous, and arrogant. He has expressed no devotion to Hari here. The only person he's even asked us to surrender to is himself.
And, what is Bhagavata Doctrine? Is Bhagavata Doctrine comparing Shaiva devotion to that of a prostitute's reliance on drugs and sex? Is Bhagavata Doctrine calling Shiva and Shakti whores? Is Bhagavata Doctrine calling Shaivas and Shaktas the pimps of Shiva and Devi? Is Bhagavata Doctrine calling all Shaivas and Shaktas 'demigod worshippers' who are 'selfish'? Is Bhagavata Doctrine asking others to surrender to you because you view yourself as having a sense of entitlement next to that of God Himself? Is that what Bhagavata Doctrine is? Because, if it is, then Bhaktajan certainily fits the criteria for a follower of 'Bhagavata Doctrine'.

RadheyRadhey108 · 07-29-2008, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhaktajan

I'm afraid that is illegal except in some back alleys of some southeast asian cities.

But I'm sure you're sincere in your quest to rectifiy you own Inferiority complex. May God help your Blooming arse.

You do realize that you make sense to no one but yourself, don't you?

Amlesh · 07-30-2008, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadheyRadhey108

Bhaktajan is the most 'exalted personality' of them all, since he thinks that we must surrender to him. He's vain, pompous, and arrogant. He has expressed no devotion to Hari here. The only person he's even asked us to surrender to is himself.
And, what is Bhagavata Doctrine? Is Bhagavata Doctrine comparing Shaiva devotion to that of a prostitute's reliance on drugs and sex? Is Bhagavata Doctrine calling Shiva and Shakti whores? Is Bhagavata Doctrine calling Shaivas and Shaktas the pimps of Shiva and Devi? Is Bhagavata Doctrine calling all Shaivas and Shaktas 'demigod worshippers' who are 'selfish'? Is Bhagavata Doctrine asking others to surrender to you because you view yourself as having a sense of entitlement next to that of God Himself? Is that what Bhagavata Doctrine is? Because, if it is, then Bhaktajan certainily fits the criteria for a follower of 'Bhagavata Doctrine'.

Might be...

But if he is sincere in his quest for Hari, then even the worst is considered the best.

It's a different platform.

RadheyRadhey108 · 07-30-2008, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amlesh

Might be...

But if he is sincere in his quest for Hari, then even the worst is considered the best.

Well, I'm sure he'd have no qualms admitting that he thinks he's the best.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amlesh

It's a different platform.

So, in other words, you don't know what it is?

bhaktajan · 07-30-2008, 11:05 AM

I try to spare you un-pleasant truths so as to let live as blissfully innocents do, but you keep asking for medicine:
.................................................. ....................................

SB 1.2.26:
Those who are serious about liberation are certainly nonenvious, and they respect all. Yet they reject the horrible and ghastly forms of the demigods and worship only the all-blissful forms of Lord Viñëu and His plenary portions.
.................................................. ....................................

SB 11.2.6:
Those who worship the demigods receive reciprocation from the demigods in a way just corresponding to the offering. The demigods are attendants of karma, like a person’s shadow, but sädhus are actually merciful to the fallen.

.................................................. ....................................
SB 3.2.37:
O gentle one, of all the physical elements, beginning from the sky down to the earth, all the inferior and superior qualities are due only to the final touch of the glance of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

.................................................. ....................................
SB 3.28.22:
The blessed Lord Çiva becomes all the more blessed by bearing on his head the holy waters of the , which has its source in the water that washed the Lord’s lotus feet. The Lord’s feet act like thunderbolts hurled to shatter the mountain of sin stored in the mind of the meditating devotee. One should therefore meditate on the lotus feet of the Lord for a long time.
Ganges, which has its source in the water that washed the Lord’s lotus feet. The Lord’s feet act like thunderbolts hurled to shatter the mountain of sin stored in the mind of the meditating devotee. One should therefore meditate on the lotus feet of the Lord for a long time.

PURPORT

In this verse the position of Lord Çiva is specifically mentioned. The impersonalist suggests that the Absolute Truth has no form and that one can therefore equally imagine the form of Viñëu or Lord Çiva or the goddess Durgä or their son Gaëeça.

But actually the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the supreme master of everyone. In the Caitanya-caritämåta (Ädi 5.142) it is said, ekale éçvara kåñëa, ara saba bhåtya: the Supreme Lord is Kåñëa, and everyone else, including Lord Çiva and Lord Brahmä—not to mention other demigods—is a servant of Kåñëa.

The same principle is described here. Lord Çiva is important because he is holding on his head the holy Ganges water, which has its origin in the foot-wash of Lord Viñëu.

In the Hari-bhakti-viläsa, by Sanätana Gosvämé, it is said that anyone who puts the Supreme Lord and the demigods, including Lord Çiva and Lord Brahmä, on the same level, at once becomes a päñaëòé, or atheist. We should never consider that the Supreme Lord Viñëu and the demigods are on an equal footing.

Another significant point of this verse is that the mind of the conditioned soul, on account of its association with the material energy from time immemorial, contains heaps of dirt in the form of desires to lord it over material nature. This dirt is like a mountain, but a mountain can be shattered when hit by a thunderbolt.

Meditating on the lotus feet of the Lord acts like a thunderbolt on the mountain of dirt in the mind of the yogé. If a yogé wants to shatter the mountain of dirt in his mind, he should concentrate on the lotus feet of the Lord and not imagine something void or impersonal. Because the dirt has accumulated like a solid mountain, one must meditate on the lotus feet of the Lord for quite a long time.

For one who is accustomed to thinking of the lotus feet of the Lord constantly, however, it is a different matter. The devotees are so fixed on the lotus feet of the Lord that they do not think of anything else. Those who practice the yoga system must meditate on the lotus feet of the Lord for a long time after following the regulative principles and thereby controlling the senses.

It is specifically mentioned here, bhagavataç caraëäravindam: one has to think of the lotus feet of the Lord. The Mäyävädés imagine that one can think of the lotus feet of Lord Çiva or Lord Brahmä or the goddess Durgä to achieve liberation, but this is not so. Bhagavataù is specifically mentioned. Bhagavataù means “of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Viñëu,” and no one else. Another significant phrase in this verse is çivaù çivo ’bhüt.

By his constitutional position, Lord Çiva is always great and auspicious, but since he has accepted on his head the Ganges water, which emanated from the lotus feet of the Lord, he has become even more auspicious and important. The stress is on the lotus feet of the Lord. A relationship with the lotus feet of the Lord can even enhance the importance of Lord Çiva, what to speak of other, ordinary living entities.
.................................................. ....................................

SB 4.19.22 Purport:
. . . Vedic literature states that a person who puts Lord Näräyaëa on the level with Lord Çiva or Lord Brahmä immediately becomes a päkhaëòé. As stated in the Puräëas:

yas tu näräyaëaà devaà

brahma-rudrädi-daivataiù

samatvenaiva vékñeta

sa päñaëòé bhaved dhruvam

In Kali-yuga the päkhaëòés are very prominent. However, Lord Çré Caitanya Mahäprabhu has tried to kill all these päkhaëòés by introducing His saìkértana movement. Those who take advantage of this saìkértana movement of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness will be able to save themselves from the influence of these päkhaëòés.
.................................................. ....................................

SB 4.19.23 Purport:
. . . In the Vaiñëava Tantra it is said:
yas tu näräyaëaà devaà
brahma-rudrädi-daivataiù
samatvenaiva vékñeta
sa päñaëòé bhaved dhruvam
Although it is forbidden, there are many päñaëòés who coin terms like daridra-näräyaëa and svämi-näräyaëa, although not even such demigods as Brahmä and Çiva can be equal to Näräyaëa.

.................................................. ....................................
SB 4.30.24 Purport:
. . . One should therefore not think that Lord Viñëu is in the same category with Lord Brahmä and Çiva. The çästras forbid us to think in this way.

yas tu näräyaëaà devaà

brahma-rudrädi-daivataiù

samatvenaiva vékñeta

sa päñaëòé bhaved dhruvam

One who considers Lord Viñëu to be in the same category with devas like Lord Brahmä or Lord Çiva or who thinks Lord Brahmä and Çiva to be equal to Lord Viñëu is to be considered as päñaëòé (a faithless nonbeliever). Therefore in this verse Lord Viñëu is distinguished in the words namo viçuddha-sattväya. Although a living entity like us, Lord Brahmä is exalted due to his pious activities; therefore he is given the high post of Brahmä. Lord Çiva is not actually like a living entity, but he is not the Supreme Personality of Godhead. His position is somewhere between Viñëu, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and Brahmä, the living entity. Lord Çiva is therefore explained in Brahma-saàhitä (5.45) in this way:

kñéraà yathä dadhi vikära-viçeña-yogät

saïjäyate na hi tataù påthag asti hetoù

yaù çambhutäm api tathä samupaiti käryäd

govindam ädi-puruñaà tam ahaà bhajämi

Lord Çiva is considered to be like yogurt (dadhi). Yogurt is nothing but transformed milk; nonetheless, yogurt cannot be accepted as milk. Similarly, Lord Çiva holds almost all the powers of Lord Viñëu, and he is also above the qualities of the living entity, but he is not exactly like Viñëu, just as yogurt, although transformed milk, is not exactly like milk.
The Supreme Personality of Godhead is also described herein as väsudeväya kåñëäya. Kåñëa is the original Supreme Personality of Godhead, and all Viñëu expansions are His plenary portions or portions of His plenary portions (known as sväàça and kalä).

SB 11.5.32

kåñëa-varëaà tviñäkåñëaà

säìgopäìgästra-pärñadam

yajïaiù saìkértana-präyair

yajanti hi su-medhasaù

SYNONYMS

kåñëa-varëam—repeating the syllables kåñ-ëa; tviñä—with a luster; akåñëam—not black (golden); sa-aìga—along with associates; upa-aìga—servitors; astra—weapons; pärñadam—confidential companions; yajïaiù—by sacrifice; saìkértana-präyaiù—consisting chiefly of congregational chanting; yajanti—they worship; hi—certainly; su-medhasaù—intelligent persons.

TRANSLATION

In the age of Kali, intelligent persons perform congregational chanting to worship the incarnation of Godhead who constantly sings the names of Kåñëa. Although His complexion is not blackish, He is Kåñëa Himself. He is accompanied by His associates, servants, weapons and confidential companions.

RadheyRadhey108 · 07-30-2008, 09:18 PM

None of these say that "Lord Shiva is a demigod". Provide a verse that states this.

srikanthdk71 · 07-31-2008, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amlesh

what's next???

Dear Sri, after knowing that, I'll tag the title Mahatma to you also.

I'll give you a hint for this what's next....

Go first of all read the Gita, and then the Bhagvatam....

Everything is there for the mystery concerning what's next...

Mahajan, I am asking you to be Free and you ask me to get stuck again interpreting the book on which Thousands of people have interpreted. I am happy being with myself. Satyameva Jayate..your way or my way.. is it not?

srikanthdk71 · 07-31-2008, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhaktajan

Not Originally Posted by srikanthdk71 — but there are Symbolic Parallels with pure sense-gradification [not that there's anything wrong with that]:

Great enjoyer-person,
the frustration never goes and the wanting is always there in married-life,
where as in the divorced or single-life,
the craving for the varieties of Women exists.

When there is search for Women, it should be Absolute Beautiful Women and not Ugly Women.
Divorced Women, handicapped Women, Fat Women, are Ugly Women.

They too are bound by high-maintenance Fees.
.
The Beautiful Women are unbound and infinite.
The choice is yours.

Yes, to surrender to Ugly Women is easy.

But what next?

A true Player will always be restless and in want of more Beautiful Women however he may pretend that he has no deviations in his own lawfully wedded wife.

But when he finds the Beautiful Women for himself, "there is no other way", is what he says.

Ultimately, YOU are the enjoyer.

Bhaktajan,

PS: No offense meant to Ugly males.

Maharaj, Good that you too have a passage to prove the direction of your intellect. The point is simple. You look outside you for answers. I look inside of me. You are confused, I am convinced. Have your own way. Sorry, i do not possess such high intellect as you and i am convinced that I am better off without it.Cheers. Keep Smiling

bhaktajan · 07-31-2008, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadheyRadhey108

Well, I'm sure he'd have no qualms admitting that he thinks he's the best.

Good News: I am a low-life slovenly doltist lust mongering beastly jackass fool, therefore I am much obliged.

Bad News?: You aspire to be my Protégée, mon ami. Therefore you are distressed?.

srikanthdk71 · 08-05-2008, 01:24 AM

Dear Bhaktjan Jaan, this is supposed to be an Advaita Vedanta Forum, please display your irrelevent "Cut & Paste" abilities in the ISKCON or General Forums if you cannot debate on Advaita Philosophy.

bhaktajan · 08-05-2008, 09:14 AM

srikanthdk71

"Dear Bhaktjan Jaan, this is supposed to be an Advaita Vedanta Forum, please display your irrelevent "Cut & Paste" abilities in the ISKCON or General Forums if you cannot debate on Advaita Philosophy."

"Mahajan, I am asking you to be Free "

" You are confused, I am convinced. Have your own way. Sorry"

"Its great that you and your organisation brainwashes people"

Who are you?

A bag of pancha-maha-bhutani? Correct?

"this is supposed to be an Advaita Vedanta Forum," --???

Here's some aggregate elements for our edification --This should be in this Thread, yes?

PS: Why do you use the word 'DEBATE' --aren't we knowledgable of what each other person is talking about?

Are you debating with people who don't know what they are talking about?

Are you debating with people who you hope agree with you from the start of the 'DEBATE'?

It's all Advaita & the 24 material elements until you read further and further outside the circle of one's own subjective sphere. No?

RadhaMukunda · 08-06-2008, 10:24 AM

Dude, you need help.